[QUOTE="dotWithShoes"][QUOTE="angry_fork"][QUOTE="dotWithShoes"] And theres no servers to tell those peers what the other peers IP's are so they can connect? Those servers don't exist and cost no money at all? There aren't any servers to tell peers to other peers, it's more like a client and it doesn't cost money, it's a middle-man that essentially holds/moves IP's around which anything can do really, if you've ever used torrents before it's the same thing with those clients, file sharing programs etc. And the tracker for the torrent does exist on a server somewhere? The 'tracker' on a game is anybody who hosts their own game. Sony isn't the tracker, that's only when Dedicated Servers are involved.
[QUOTE="Espada12"][QUOTE="loftus42"]It's more then just P2P. Live offers a slew of features along with On-line play. Just to name a few are leader boards, the infamous match making, and in-game chat. All these use dedicated servers to enable thier use in game. So, you get more for your money then just on-line play. Besides your money does bring features to those with silver accounts. Like the avatars in NXE. I don't mind paying the extra money as long as there is a benefit of a more stable Live with more features for both Silver and Gold members. PSn is a decent on-line service, I don't like Home, so we will leave that one alone. It's just not as good as the Live service. IMO Live is so much better then PSn, and easier, that I think PSn would benefit from a small fee.loftus42
They give most of those free hence why I said most is included in silver accounts. 50 is basically paying for matchmaking and online. If i remember you don't even need gold to download NXE or have avatars.
Did you read my post? They don't give in-game chat away in silver acounts. or leader boards, plus a few others. I said for your money silver members also benefit from additions such as avatars in NXE. never said avatars were only for gold members. Silver members also benefit from gold member fee's. Siver does have Chat, but you have to have Gold, obviously to have in-game chat, which is a lot more resource intensive then just chat. Plus, all of this is a lot more stable and works with every game, so every one benefits, silver and Gold members alike. This costs money.
I know those cost money, what I'm saying is that why is it that you aren't being charged for the majority of things, but are being charged for in-game chat,match making, leaderboards and playing online?Playing online.. which is the lowest cost thing that you have there is basically what you are paying for, while things that cost quite a bit more (like NXE updates, chat(not in-game) you don't need to pay for. If anything those things should flip thier positions and be in the gold memebeship while online with it's limited functionality be avaliable for silver users as well.
PSN has in-game chat, most online games have leaderboards, and matchmaking? seriously? Cross-game invites PSN doesn't have yet but that's not worth 50 bucks sorry. If it is for you then you have low standards.angry_fork
PSn does not have private In-game chat. At least I havn't figured out how to do it yet. If you can please let me know, I can't figure that one out yet. All games on Live have all features, thats why I like Live better. It's done the same way on every game no matter what. PSn, each game has it's own features they support, and very few are done the same way.
[QUOTE="angry_fork"][QUOTE="dotWithShoes"][QUOTE="angry_fork"] There aren't any servers to tell peers to other peers, it's more like a client and it doesn't cost money, it's a middle-man that essentially holds/moves IP's around which anything can do really, if you've ever used torrents before it's the same thing with those clients, file sharing programs etc. And the tracker for the torrent does exist on a server somewhere? The 'tracker' on a game is anybody who hosts their own game. Sony isn't the tracker, that's only when Dedicated Servers are involved. Maybe I'm missing something. So you're saying, when I get on Call of Duty 4.. that game knows who to connect to to play a game? It already knows someones IP to connect to them?
They give most of those free hence why I said most is included in silver accounts. 50 is basically paying for matchmaking and online. If i remember you don't even need gold to download NXE or have avatars.
Espada12
Did you read my post? They don't give in-game chat away in silver acounts. or leader boards, plus a few others. I said for your money silver members also benefit from additions such as avatars in NXE. never said avatars were only for gold members. Silver members also benefit from gold member fee's. Siver does have Chat, but you have to have Gold, obviously to have in-game chat, which is a lot more resource intensive then just chat. Plus, all of this is a lot more stable and works with every game, so every one benefits, silver and Gold members alike. This costs money.
I know those cost money, what I'm saying is that why is it that you aren't being charged for the majority of things, but are being charged for in-game chat,match making, leaderboards and playing online?Playing online.. which is the lowest cost thing that you have there is basically what you are paying for, while things that cost quite a bit more (like NXE updates, chat(not in-game) you don't need to pay for. If anything those things should flip thier positions and be in the gold memebeship while online with it's limited functionality be avaliable for silver users as well.
You can do chat with Silver? Odd, last time my live ran out I couldn't chat anyone.
[QUOTE="dotWithShoes"][QUOTE="angry_fork"][QUOTE="dotWithShoes"] And the tracker for the torrent does exist on a server somewhere? The 'tracker' on a game is anybody who hosts their own game. Sony isn't the tracker, that's only when Dedicated Servers are involved. Maybe I'm missing something. So you're saying, when I get on Call of Duty 4.. that game knows who to connect to to play a game? It already knows someones IP to connect to them? Yes. Anyone who is currently hosting a public game has their IP broadcasted on the network. Of course, only the network itself sees such information, but it still exists.
[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"][QUOTE="dotWithShoes"][QUOTE="angry_fork"] The 'tracker' on a game is anybody who hosts their own game. Sony isn't the tracker, that's only when Dedicated Servers are involved. Maybe I'm missing something. So you're saying, when I get on Call of Duty 4.. that game knows who to connect to to play a game? It already knows someones IP to connect to them? Yes. Anyone who is currently hosting a public game has their IP broadcasted on the network. Of course, only the network itself sees such information, but it still exists. So I'm not mistaken, there are servers that exist that do indeed cost someone money?
[QUOTE="dotWithShoes"][QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"][QUOTE="dotWithShoes"] Maybe I'm missing something. So you're saying, when I get on Call of Duty 4.. that game knows who to connect to to play a game? It already knows someones IP to connect to them? Yes. Anyone who is currently hosting a public game has their IP broadcasted on the network. Of course, only the network itself sees such information, but it still exists. So I'm not mistaken, there are servers that exist that do indeed cost someone money? Yeah. These kinds of servers in particular are simpler to run since their main task is just to assign connections and broadcast network information, but they still exist nonetheless and thus cost money to operate.
They wouldnt use the money to make the service better. **** if you think that way already...just THINK that they charge you now. It will be the same feeling if you really do pay.
I know those cost money, what I'm saying is that why is it that you aren't being charged for the majority of things, but are being charged for in-game chat,match making, leaderboards and playing online?Playing online.. which is the lowest cost thing that you have there is basically what you are paying for, while things that cost quite a bit more (like NXE updates, chat(not in-game) you don't need to pay for. If anything those things should flip thier positions and be in the gold memebeship while online with it's limited functionality be avaliable for silver users as well. Espada12
Well, That would be nice, yes, if those things were switched. But, just for arguements sake. If those things were switched, would the amount of money available for NXE, avatars, and future big updates be there for everyone? IMO, a lot of people would chose not to have some of those features if they would have to pay extra for. But, since they are included with Gold, they are used more, and there is more money for updates for everyone. I don't mind the way it is now. If, it was the other way like your suggestion, I fear not enough money would be available, and Live might be in the same position that PSn is in. Not that PSn is all that bad. It's pretty good, IMO. but, it seems disjointed at times, where every feature works with every game in the same way on Live.
[QUOTE="angry_fork"]PSN has in-game chat, most online games have leaderboards, and matchmaking? seriously? Cross-game invites PSN doesn't have yet but that's not worth 50 bucks sorry. If it is for you then you have low standards.loftus42
PSn does not have private In-game chat. At least I havn't figured out how to do it yet. If you can please let me know, I can't figure that one out yet. All games on Live have all features, thats why I like Live better. It's done the same way on every game no matter what. PSn, each game has it's own features they support, and very few are done the same way.
PSN has in game voice chat but only online with the others you are playing with. Psn does have cross game chat tho (text), maybe thats what he means.
PSN has in game voice chat but only online with the others you are playing with. Psn does have cross game chat tho (text), maybe thats what he means.PrinceofSarcasm
OK, I didn't even know you could cross game text. LOL, Sorry if that was what you meant. That's better then nothing, but it would hurt if your in an on-line shooter. Private in-game voice chat, i can talk with my team, privatly, to talk strategy. Some game though do allow you to do this anyways, just not all. They just need to find a way to mute your mic automatically if you die so you can't scout out the other team for your teammates.
I can't believe some of you people. "Bu-bu-but teh monies will make teh service teh bettar!" SCE is already improving and evolving PSN without fees. Its like you want SONY to bend you over and cornhole you while you scream "Thank you sir. May I have another!?" Unbelievable.
You don't need a server for peer to peer, you just need a program. Live is the program. Just picture live as a big hamachi or a gaming limewire. This is what I know of course, if it is different tell me.Espada12
Hamachi has a central server. As for LimeWire, it simply broadcasts a forward-or-reply request and then selects them based on criteria which are easily determined by the client. Finding a game is not that simple - in addition to connection quality, you also have to take into account skill matching, player type (self-identified or admin-flagged), prefer/avoid status (what if a peer host contains a player you've asked to avoid?), and any other criteria the player asked for (headset-only, etc.). It's not nearly as simple as "find me the copy of Britney's new album that'll download the fastest". And all that's before we take into account things like cheat prevention (both detection software, and a staff to act on complaints). In the end, the bill is getting passed to someone else, one way or another - there's no such thing as a free lunch.
Paying for something does not make it better. What about those people who paid for a game like Hellgate or Age of Conan? How was their service/community? Oh wait, they're dead. Just because you pay for something, do not think it will automatically become better. Besides, why the hell would I pay 50 bucks a year to use my own internet connection to play a game? For what? And yeah, it's obviously easy to say "well if you can't afford it then that's sad" when you beg your daddy for his credit card. I'm glad the PSN is free, definitely not as good as XBL but it does not make it bad. Also, wi-fi compatibility is free on the PS3, so if I pay for it on the 360, it would be better right?
[QUOTE="Espada12"][QUOTE="loftus42"]Did you read my post? They don't give in-game chat away in silver acounts. or leader boards, plus a few others. I said for your money silver members also benefit from additions such as avatars in NXE. never said avatars were only for gold members. Silver members also benefit from gold member fee's. Siver does have Chat, but you have to have Gold, obviously to have in-game chat, which is a lot more resource intensive then just chat. Plus, all of this is a lot more stable and works with every game, so every one benefits, silver and Gold members alike. This costs money.dotWithShoes
I know those cost money, what I'm saying is that why is it that you aren't being charged for the majority of things, but are being charged for in-game chat,match making, leaderboards and playing online?Playing online.. which is the lowest cost thing that you have there is basically what you are paying for, while things that cost quite a bit more (like NXE updates, chat(not in-game) you don't need to pay for. If anything those things should flip thier positions and be in the gold memebeship while online with it's limited functionality be avaliable for silver users as well.
You can do chat with Silver? Odd, last time my live ran out I couldn't chat anyone.
Hey I'm going by what I was told by the above quote. I don't use live at all.
Even though it's only $5 for a entire year of online I would still be unhappy to pay it, why? The Principle of it, why should have to pay twice to use the Internet? Once to the supplier to have access to the internet (fair) and then again to use something I already have (not cool).
Even though it's only $5 for a entire year of online I would still be unhappy to pay it, why? The Principle of it, why should have to pay twice to use the Internet? Once to the supplier to have access to the internet (fair) and then again to use something I already have (not cool).St_muscat
So basicly every website that offers a service for a charge should be free as well? Why pay twice for something right?
There would be thousands of people who A) couldn't be bothered to pay or B) wouldn't pay on principle. This would just remove a lot of people from PSN and be a pain in the ass. I think that you should either go for free or a price that could actually significantly improve the service (More like 20-25).
I would prefer if they would add some donation choice for those who want to. Online gaming should be for free forever. Milkage should not be accepted and M$ is milking the fanboy for nothing in exchange. That's how I see it (GeoW & Halo don't have dedicated servers? sad..)
[QUOTE="dotWithShoes"]You can do chat with Silver? Odd, last time my live ran out I couldn't chat anyone.Espada12
Hey I'm going by what I was told by the above quote. I don't use live at all.
Sorry about that, that one is my fault. I thought you could do chat with silver. I've had gold since the xbox days. I'll have to check all those things out when my Gold membership runs out this next month. I am going to renew, just want to check out the things you can do with the silver. Sorry Espada12, didn't mean to mislead you.
That would be an amazing deal lol. Free DLC? Yeah right. But they don't need to charge for PSN, because Home is Sony's new revenue generator.Episode_Eve
LOL, I feel the same way about Home. 5.00 homes, 2.00 furniture. I know it's optional, but there is going to be a lot of people buying a lot of these imaginary upgrades to this glorified Sims ripoff. Cash cow for the Sony faithful.
PC, Wii and PS3 have online gaming for free as far as I'm concerned and they should stay that way. All I want to do online is play games, purchase things from the store and be able to send messages to my friends while playing games which PSN does perfectly. I don't need any extra features I wont really ever use, much less if I would have to pay for them. Actually PSN has one extra feature which I love and that's being able to share most DLC/DLG with up to 5 PS3s for free :D
[QUOTE="Angry_PolarBear"]Like others already said, it's not about the money, but the principle. Why should we pay to play games online when we already payed for it in the first place?PrinceofSarcasm
you payed for the game not the service that connects you to other users. Online should cost money but sony is being nice but the result is a harder to maintain service. 5 bucks gives them just a bit for helping to maintain the service and make it more stable .
WHY DO SO MANY THINK ITS THERE GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO RECEIVE OTHERS WORK FOR FREE.
You're connected to others via you're internet connection, Sony has nothing to do with this. Sony dosn't have to supply servers, there's loads of PC servers that are run by private companies and clans.
[QUOTE="campzor"]even though 5 bucks is nothing i still would prefer nothing , its the principle of the matter , online gaming should be free....no matter whatxiayan
Thats why you pay for Broadband internet? I mean who are you to say online gaming should be free. It still cost other people money.
Firstly , why do you care if it costs anyone but yourself money? your a gamer , you want to game , why not be free. who gives a flying monkeys *** if its costing someone else.. i seriously dont get the mentality of some people. Secondly , i pay for the broadband internet for more then one thing , web browsing , downloading , gaming.. Paying to pay online is an EXTRA fee ontop of your broadband payment..
Sure they can make chat stuff optional, but i won't get it. They're not allowed to force it on You, at least not where i live. Btw i haven't had any stability issues so far. But i'm in europe maybe it's different.
better in what ways? does the PSN crap out on you? you can't connect on it? what what? beside the slow first 5 minutes update goes LIVE where everyone single person go and want to download the update firmware. I haven't experienced any disconnection whatsoever.
It's improving fast enough for a free service. I'd be disappointed in Sony if they sunk low enough to charge for online. Floppy_Jim
Well, if it was just $5, that wouldn't be a problem as long as it made the service even better. I think it's fine the way it is now, but there's always room for improvement right? ;)
[QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]It's improving fast enough for a free service. I'd be disappointed in Sony if they sunk low enough to charge for online. _Brennan_
Well, if it was just $5, that wouldn't be a problem as long as it made the service even better. I think it's fine the way it is now, but there's always room for improvement right? ;) $5 is around 3GBP in UK money. So I'd still pay for it, but it would be the principle that bothers me. And people are buying tons of virtual crap in Home, that's making Sony a lot of money.
[QUOTE="_Brennan_"][QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]It's improving fast enough for a free service. I'd be disappointed in Sony if they sunk low enough to charge for online. Floppy_Jim
Well, if it was just $5, that wouldn't be a problem as long as it made the service even better. I think it's fine the way it is now, but there's always room for improvement right? ;) $5 is around 3GBP in UK money. So I'd still pay for it, but it would be the principle that bothers me. And people are buying tons of virtual crap in Home, that's making Sony a lot of money.That crap in Home is ridiculous! No one should buy any of that. Once I realized you had to pay for stuff on there, I never played it again... But yeah so Sony is making tons of $$$$ from that stuff, so maybe that will go towards improving PSN :)
[QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"][QUOTE="_Brennan_"]Well, if it was just $5, that wouldn't be a problem as long as it made the service even better. I think it's fine the way it is now, but there's always room for improvement right? ;)_Brennan_
$5 is around 3GBP in UK money. So I'd still pay for it, but it would be the principle that bothers me. And people are buying tons of virtual crap in Home, that's making Sony a lot of money.That crap in Home is ridiculous! No one should buy any of that. Once I realized you had to pay for stuff on there, I never played it again... But yeah so Sony is making tons of $$$$ from that stuff, so maybe that will go towards improving PSN :) Yeah, the day I pay for virtual furniture and virtual gloves is the day I die :? But it's good that so many people are (for some reason) buying it, it means Sony can use some of the money to improve the service.
I'd be really angry but I guess I'd have to pay it. I don't own a 360 based on principle (and the fact that I don't have money for both). Also I'd switch a lot of my gaming for PC games and see if I could do without the PS3 onlinewhackedjob213
You'd be really angry over 5$ a year? That's like 40 cent a month.
1 points cards arent readily available at walmart,
2 sony never charged for online period and people are used to that , so i f they start charging now when its too late , maybe next gen but now its to late people already know what they got and i think it should stay free we pay internet bills already lol ,
There are plenty of ways Sony can pay for PSN other than subscription fees, like micro transactions and in-game advertisements. That's been their plan from day one.
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