"Cell greater than Xenon" argument = Over *Updated*

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Thrice_III

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#151 Thrice_III
Member since 2004 • 1539 Posts
The cell is a mathematical powerhouse. So I discredit what was said after you said it(xenon) does physics better.
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111v

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#152 111v
Member since 2005 • 1007 Posts
[QUOTE="111v"][QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"]xbox360>ps3 confirmed!Radeon_X1950XTX
um no there have been numerous developers that have said otherwise.

i mean overall , not just processor comparisions

over all there about equal but i still think the ps3 has a slight edge only because the cell makes up for the rsx's short comings.
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Runningflame570

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#153 Runningflame570
Member since 2005 • 10388 Posts
[QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"]the areas in which Xbox outperformed the ps2 (and vice versa) is the exact same areas where xbox 360 outperforms ps3(and vice versa) and xbox was the more powerfull console

Not at all..that argument doesn't work because PS2 had EE/GS which was in fact a hybrid CPU/GPU..so the 6 GFLOPS advertised for it was split between the two. It was also MUCH harder to utilize than the Cell BE which can be coded to in C+, the EE/GS needed to be coded for in assembly (although compilers later did much of the work).
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OceanLeet

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#154 OceanLeet
Member since 2007 • 938 Posts
Um...while not as powerful, the Wii's cpu is very efficient and contains no bottlenecks :)
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Dreams-Visions

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#155 Dreams-Visions
Member since 2006 • 26578 Posts
great. another thread where fanboys who really don't know anything about this stuff argue back and forth, saying the same thing over and over again.
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X360PS3AMD05

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#156 X360PS3AMD05
Member since 2005 • 36320 Posts
Cell is better on paper, in real life devs are taking more advantage of the Xenon.
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Runningflame570

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#157 Runningflame570
Member since 2005 • 10388 Posts
Um...while not as powerful, the Wii's cpu is very efficient and contains no bottlenecks :)OceanLeet
Everything has a bottleneck of some sort, anyone who tells you otherwise is full of it.
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ssbfalco

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#158 ssbfalco
Member since 2005 • 1970 Posts
Xenon is cripled with only1mb of cache, because of it if it uses all of its threads it will get bottlenecked and lose efficiency. Both CPUs are good, each has a different purpose. Xenon=general processing Cell= Floting Point processing.muscleserge
Unfortunately... Floating Point calculations aren't the most important CPU operations needed for games...
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ssbfalco

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#159 ssbfalco
Member since 2005 • 1970 Posts
[QUOTE="OceanLeet"]Um...while not as powerful, the Wii's cpu is very efficient and contains no bottlenecks :)Runningflame570
Everything has a bottleneck of some sort, anyone who tells you otherwise is full of it.

Actually, not necessarily... If you see its speed, and judging by the assumed architecture of the Broadway chip, there are most likley no bottlenecks in the CPU at all (plenty of bandwidth, etc for a processor even faster than it is), though it itself might be a bottleneck to the maximum performance of other parts of the system...
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X360PS3AMD05

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#160 X360PS3AMD05
Member since 2005 • 36320 Posts
There is always a bottleneck.
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jbisco25

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#161 jbisco25
Member since 2004 • 976 Posts
they both good console end of story
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Redfingers

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#162 Redfingers
Member since 2005 • 4510 Posts
[QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="Redfingers"]I have read of only one developer who said that the PS3 architecture is "low powered" or inefficient, or bad, or hard to code, or anything like that, and that's the Blue Dragon director. He's the only one. Just because somebody makes games for Microsoft because they give him a cut or he likes the Xbox franchise or he is attracted by the large installed base does not mean that he thinks the 360 architecture is 20 times better. I've read so much that suggests the Cell architecture is better. I've seen so much that seems to suggest they are both very close to being equal. To suggest, however, that the Cell is deficient and the Xenon is not is purely uneducated. I would like to note that the RAM in the Cell is XDR, meaning less=more when compared to GDDR3. Therefore, 256>256

i heard from 4 developers, John Carmack said that He still prefers 360 over ps3 developer of alanwake said it cant run on ps3 well, this was before microsoft was the officail publisher,when the game was multiplat for ps3 2 developer of ninja guidan also said he prefers 360 more and developer from blue dragon. as for ram ps3 does have faster ram, but again more > faster, most games will be pushed hard, and most of the time the CPU or gpu will need more than 256mb, 360 allows for that range of flexibility, lettiing some reserved for cpu, such as 200mb for GPU and 312mb for CPU. PS3 on the other hand is stuck with 256 for CPU and 256 for GPU

You just told me that the 360 does not have more RAM for the CPU. In fact, you just said they have exactly the same amount reserved for the CPU and GPU. The perceived advantage, you now tell me, is that more of the RAM can be reserved by the CPU. So, not only does 256 XDR
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Redfingers

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#163 Redfingers
Member since 2005 • 4510 Posts
Screw me let's try this again. The 56MB "advantage" in flexible RAM is negligible. Especially whenever you consider that it is at the expense of the GPU and when you consider that XDR provides a performance advantage far beyond that of the typical DDR-DDR2. Itagaki, the NG developer, said that the Playstation 3 was "slightly more powerful," but that the difference was negligible. He said he prefers the Playstation 3, probably because he is Japanese (his words).
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familyguyvs360

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#164 familyguyvs360
Member since 2007 • 394 Posts
[QUOTE="Pro_wrestler"][QUOTE="Supafly1"]So do you mean that 1 SPE draws power from the PPE, but the X-box 360 has 3 cores that have their own individual processing power? Sorry if I don't understand.

Think of the cells CPU as a weight lifter, and the SPEs as its weights. It has to lift 8 weights all by itself VS Xboxs THREE CPUs only having to lift 2 weights each. Now, both the CPUs are equal in strength but Xboxs 3 CPU are not struggling as much.

WOW! Your logic is horrible and is the d**best thing I've heard IMO.
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familyguyvs360

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#165 familyguyvs360
Member since 2007 • 394 Posts
the both good console end of storyjbisco25
Agreed! The advantage of owning all consoles is you have all the exclusives!
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Me_Ur_Daddy-

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#166 Me_Ur_Daddy-
Member since 2007 • 25 Posts
this is the funniest thread ever thanx for the laugh TC :)
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CwlHeddwyn

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#167 CwlHeddwyn
Member since 2005 • 5314 Posts

Wow more tech advice taken from a Major Nelson artcile and regurgitated.  The problem is even 360 devs have said the Cell trounces Xenon. Deniss Dyak said it( of silicon knights) John Carmack said it Tonumbu Itagki said it. So why is this even up for debate again?  The PS3 processor uterrly destroys whats in the 360's.

Archx1
yes the CELL trounces the Xenon in floating point but thats exactly what the CELL is designed to do- the CELL is designed specifically for that task & you will notice that it also trounces any other CPU in floating point- but guess what? if PC CPUs dont require high floating point performance in order to get top graphics then that should tell you something. the CPUs inside PCs are general purpose chips- they totally own the CELL when it comes to General Purpose performance because thats what their designed to do- just how the Xenon owns the CELL in that area because it has 3 General Purpose Cores vs 1 General Purpose Core.
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jmk777

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#168 jmk777
Member since 2004 • 555 Posts

People were saying how much greater the Cell is than Xenon. Cell may be more precise than Xenon cause of its SPEs, but Xenon has more raw processing power cause of its true, 3 core versus Cells 1 core. Cells 8 SPEs doesnt matter since they are only as fast as the PPE that is a controller for each SPE and if the PPE struggles, they struggle.Link
Think of games like Kameo and N3 with hundreds or thousands of enemys on screen, thanks to its 3 cores its able to multiply its AI and Physics better than cell because its more efficient and more data is able to be pushed through its 3 cores, thats why it has a 512MB GPU Vs 256MB. Another example is Forza 2, 360 physics and AI calculations per second, along with real-time damage for all 300+ cars all at 60fps. http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/11214/Forza-2-60fps-Better-Physics-and-PGR3like-TV-Confirmed/

"It was revealed that the game engine is multi-threaded...It is therefore likely that the Xbox 360 version will also be able to take advantage of the Xenon CPU's three cores which have a total of six threads."

"It was also claimed that the game is unlikely to run on single-core systems"Link

If you look below, Each CPU in the Xenon only has to handle 2 threads, The Cells 1 CPU has to handle 8 threads, making it much less efficient and sometimes less powerful.

Xenon:

Cell:

Another reason Xenon is more efficient:
"The CPU cores (there are three) are the highest frequency PowerPC cores currently available, running at 3.2GHz. Throughout, the CPU uses extensive clock gating, leaving pipelines shut down until there are instructions to be processed; this dramatically reduces power consumption under real-world loads. The basic design is a 64-bit PowerPC architecture, with the complete PowerPC ISA available"
http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/power/library/pa-fpfxbox/

Pro_wrestler

 

Wow you have absolutely no idea what your talking about, If is some kind of april fools joke..... cause if its not ar yeah lol

And what is it with forza? ive seen the vid clips and GTHD owns it.

 

 

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deron2

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#169 deron2
Member since 2004 • 789 Posts
[QUOTE="Pro_wrestler"]

People were saying how much greater the Cell is than Xenon. Cell may be more precise than Xenon cause of its SPEs, but Xenon has more raw processing power cause of its true, 3 core versus Cells 1 core. Cells 8 SPEs doesnt matter since they are only as fast as the PPE that is a controller for each SPE and if the PPE struggles, they struggle.Link
Think of games like Kameo and N3 with hundreds or thousands of enemys on screen, thanks to its 3 cores its able to multiply its AI and Physics better than cell because its more efficient and more data is able to be pushed through its 3 cores, thats why it has a 512MB GPU Vs 256MB. Another example is Forza 2, 360 physics and AI calculations per second, along with real-time damage for all 300+ cars all at 60fps. http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/11214/Forza-2-60fps-Better-Physics-and-PGR3like-TV-Confirmed/

"It was revealed that the game engine is multi-threaded...It is therefore likely that the Xbox 360 version will also be able to take advantage of the Xenon CPU's three cores which have a total of six threads."

"It was also claimed that the game is unlikely to run on single-core systems"Link

If you look below, Each CPU in the Xenon only has to handle 2 threads, The Cells 1 CPU has to handle 8 threads, making it much less efficient and sometimes less powerful.

Xenon:

Cell:

Another reason Xenon is more efficient:
"The CPU cores (there are three) are the highest frequency PowerPC cores currently available, running at 3.2GHz. Throughout, the CPU uses extensive clock gating, leaving pipelines shut down until there are instructions to be processed; this dramatically reduces power consumption under real-world loads. The basic design is a 64-bit PowerPC architecture, with the complete PowerPC ISA available"
http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/power/library/pa-fpfxbox/

jmk777

 

Wow you have absolutely no idea what your talking about, If is some kind of april fools joke..... cause if its not ar yeah lol

And what is it with forza? ive seen the vid clips and GTHD owns it.

 

 

i dont no what the tc is talking about but saying GTHD owns forza is plain stupid.... GTHD as static back grounds no real world lighting it may as well be a rollarcoster.. forza as real world lighting full physics and car damage and no static backgrounds, but if your a cow that wont matter to you because sony as already took over your soul :P
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Archx1

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#170 Archx1
Member since 2007 • 172 Posts
[QUOTE="Archx1"]

Wow more tech advice taken from a Major Nelson artcile and regurgitated.  The problem is even 360 devs have said the Cell trounces Xenon. Deniss Dyak said it( of silicon knights) John Carmack said it Tonumbu Itagki said it. So why is this even up for debate again?  The PS3 processor uterrly destroys whats in the 360's.

CwlHeddwyn

yes the CELL trounces the Xenon in floating point but thats exactly what the CELL is designed to do- the CELL is designed specifically for that task & you will notice that it also trounces any other CPU in floating point- but guess what? if PC CPUs dont require high floating point performance in order to get top graphics then that should tell you something. the CPUs inside PCs are general purpose chips- they totally own the CELL when it comes to General Purpose performance because thats what their designed to do- just how the Xenon owns the CELL in that area because it has 3 General Purpose Cores vs 1 General Purpose Core.

And General purpose performance is not the most important in games my freind its the most important on running multiple software programs and surfing the internet it has very little to do with gaming power.  The fact is the Cell destorys Xenon for gaming applications such as physics calcuatlions, graphic rendering and AI.   Looking at future PS3 titles its extremly evident.

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Archx1

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#171 Archx1
Member since 2007 • 172 Posts

[QUOTE="Radeon_X1950XTX"][QUOTE="Redfingers"]I have read of only one developer who said that the PS3 architecture is "low powered" or inefficient, or bad, or hard to code, or anything like that, and that's the Blue Dragon director. He's the only one. Just because somebody makes games for Microsoft because they give him a cut or he likes the Xbox franchise or he is attracted by the large installed base does not mean that he thinks the 360 architecture is 20 times better. I've read so much that suggests the Cell architecture is better. I've seen so much that seems to suggest they are both very close to being equal. To suggest, however, that the Cell is deficient and the Xenon is not is purely uneducated. I would like to note that the RAM in the Cell is XDR, meaning less=more when compared to GDDR3. Therefore, 256>256Redfingers
i heard from 4 developers, John Carmack said that He still prefers 360 over ps3 developer of alanwake said it cant run on ps3 well, this was before microsoft was the officail publisher,when the game was multiplat for ps3 2 developer of ninja guidan also said he prefers 360 more and developer from blue dragon. as for ram ps3 does have faster ram, but again more > faster, most games will be pushed hard, and most of the time the CPU or gpu will need more than 256mb, 360 allows for that range of flexibility, lettiing some reserved for cpu, such as 200mb for GPU and 312mb for CPU. PS3 on the other hand is stuck with 256 for CPU and 256 for GPU

You just told me that the 360 does not have more RAM for the CPU. In fact, you just said they have exactly the same amount reserved for the CPU and GPU. The perceived advantage, you now tell me, is that more of the RAM can be reserved by the CPU. So, not only does 256 XDR

I wouldnt address him at all because he pretty much made up half his post.  The dev of Alan Wake never said it couldnt be done on the PS3 matter of fact it was coming to the PS3 untill Microsoft bought the rights to it.  And the 360 doesnt have more memory hes wrong there to.  The PS3 has the same amount except 256megs of its much faster.

Also he forgets to mention that although Carmack and Itakgi prefer the 360 its because of ease of use.  They both stated clearly they thought the PS3 was more powerful and capable of better peformance.

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wok7

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#172 wok7
Member since 2003 • 2034 Posts
We've already known that the Xenon was far superior a long time ago.
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Archx1

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#173 Archx1
Member since 2007 • 172 Posts

We've already known that the Xenon was far superior a long time ago.wok7

360 fanboys can continue to tell themselves that but it will never make it true. I own both platforms and the games coming out for the PS3 later this year simply beat anything on the 360 from a visual perspective not to mention pretty much every dev under the Sun says the PS3 is more powerful.

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BumFluff122

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#174 BumFluff122
Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts
[QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"][QUOTE="Archx1"]

Wow more tech advice taken from a Major Nelson artcile and regurgitated.  The problem is even 360 devs have said the Cell trounces Xenon. Deniss Dyak said it( of silicon knights) John Carmack said it Tonumbu Itagki said it. So why is this even up for debate again?  The PS3 processor uterrly destroys whats in the 360's.

Archx1

yes the CELL trounces the Xenon in floating point but thats exactly what the CELL is designed to do- the CELL is designed specifically for that task & you will notice that it also trounces any other CPU in floating point- but guess what? if PC CPUs dont require high floating point performance in order to get top graphics then that should tell you something. the CPUs inside PCs are general purpose chips- they totally own the CELL when it comes to General Purpose performance because thats what their designed to do- just how the Xenon owns the CELL in that area because it has 3 General Purpose Cores vs 1 General Purpose Core.

And General purpose performance is not the most important in games my freind its the most important on running multiple software programs and surfing the internet it has very little to do with gaming power.  The fact is the Cell destorys Xenon for gaming applications such as physics calcuatlions, graphic rendering and AI.   Looking at future PS3 titles its extremly evident.

You just typed something there that goes against everything most of the very knowledgable people on this subject have said. The PS3 is a powerhorse as a multimedia hub but the 360 betters it in gaming power.
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highlander0659

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#175 highlander0659
Member since 2003 • 1102 Posts
[QUOTE="dubvisions"]I think there's a geek section somewhere on this website. i say, go find it.Pro_wrestler
LMAO! Im not a geek, Im sexy and I dont wear glasses. Im just tired of people claiming that the CELL is better than Xenon.

Well actually the Cell is far better than the Xenon. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. The PS3 is just a better console. 1). The cell uses pure vector processors which are a lot more efficient than the 360s general purpose G5 derivatives, so they can do more at a lower clock. 2). There are 8 of them(one reserved). 3). Each SPE has its own dedicated pool of memory instead of cache. There is NO system memory. Which means that there is also no lag time between the processor and memory, speeding up the whole system. Using dedicated ram instead of cache also helps to make the processor run closer to its 'paper' speeds by getting rid of inefficiencies inherent in cache. 4). It has INSANE system bandwidth. This means that it can interact with the other parts with less lag time and more information can be transmitted between them. 5). As a vector processor it can also render graphics. Meaning it can help the gpu do its job if it has some free time. 6). Blu-ray can hold more data and transfer that data faster than dvd and hd dvd. They are also researching multi layer discs that currently hold 200GB.  -That's six reasons why the PS3 is technically superior. http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379 Hopefully, this is the first time the article has been posted. Apparently, the PS3 will have close to ten times the bandwidth of a typical PC due to Flex I/O. If after reading this article, you think there is anything you can get for less than a grand that comes even close to being as good a gaming machine, then you are nuts. PhysX is on the 360. In fact, AGEIA tried very hard to make a statement this summer that the 360 was capable of doing physics. Earlier, an AGEIA scientist said that the PS3 was doing very well but that the 360 wasn't as good as the PS3. This was also right after Microsoft sent specs to ign and were making the claim that the 360 was just as powerful as the PS3. A few weeks later, AGEIA made a rebuttal and said that the scientists was speaking only theoretically and that the 360 wasn't performing as well "under certain conditions".. What those conditions were at the time has never been clarified, mainly due to the fact that it could be more damaging to a prospective customer (Microsoft) if the word got out that the 360 (set to launch in 2005) wasn't as capable as a machine that already "stole the show" at E3. Now, AGEIA must not really care about pleasing MS so much, or they know that we know the writing is on the wall and are more forthcoming about the PS3s abilities when compared to the 360. AGEIA isn't BSing anyone, they have nothing to gain by BSing people. Their bread and butter is in PC gaming and the console war has very little to do with their bottom line, ESPECIALLY since both systems will have software utilizing their DevTools. You know why the 360 didn't do as good under those conditions???? Because it's inferior to the PS3!!!!!! Don't you lemmings forget it!!!!!
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CwlHeddwyn

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#176 CwlHeddwyn
Member since 2005 • 5314 Posts
[QUOTE="Pro_wrestler"][QUOTE="dubvisions"]I think there's a geek section somewhere on this website. i say, go find it.highlander0659
LMAO! Im not a geek, Im sexy and I dont wear glasses. Im just tired of people claiming that the CELL is better than Xenon.

Well actually the Cell is far better than the Xenon. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. The PS3 is just a better console. 1). The cell uses pure vector processors which are a lot more efficient than the 360s general purpose G5 derivatives, so they can do more at a lower clock. 2). There are 8 of them(one reserved). 3). Each SPE has its own dedicated pool of memory instead of cache. There is NO system memory. Which means that there is also no lag time between the processor and memory, speeding up the whole system. Using dedicated ram instead of cache also helps to make the processor run closer to its 'paper' speeds by getting rid of inefficiencies inherent in cache. 4). It has INSANE system bandwidth. This means that it can interact with the other parts with less lag time and more information can be transmitted between them. 5). As a vector processor it can also render graphics. Meaning it can help the gpu do its job if it has some free time. 6). Blu-ray can hold more data and transfer that data faster than dvd and hd dvd. They are also researching multi layer discs that currently hold 200GB.  -That's six reasons why the PS3 is technically superior. http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379 Hopefully, this is the first time the article has been posted. Apparently, the PS3 will have close to ten times the bandwidth of a typical PC due to Flex I/O. If after reading this article, you think there is anything you can get for less than a grand that comes even close to being as good a gaming machine, then you are nuts. PhysX is on the 360. In fact, AGEIA tried very hard to make a statement this summer that the 360 was capable of doing physics. Earlier, an AGEIA scientist said that the PS3 was doing very well but that the 360 wasn't as good as the PS3. This was also right after Microsoft sent specs to ign and were making the claim that the 360 was just as powerful as the PS3. A few weeks later, AGEIA made a rebuttal and said that the scientists was speaking only theoretically and that the 360 wasn't performing as well "under certain conditions".. What those conditions were at the time has never been clarified, mainly due to the fact that it could be more damaging to a prospective customer (Microsoft) if the word got out that the 360 (set to launch in 2005) wasn't as capable as a machine that already "stole the show" at E3. Now, AGEIA must not really care about pleasing MS so much, or they know that we know the writing is on the wall and are more forthcoming about the PS3s abilities when compared to the 360. AGEIA isn't BSing anyone, they have nothing to gain by BSing people. Their bread and butter is in PC gaming and the console war has very little to do with their bottom line, ESPECIALLY since both systems will have software utilizing their DevTools. You know why the 360 didn't do as good under those conditions???? Because it's inferior to the PS3!!!!!! Don't you lemmings forget it!!!!!

lol just stop just stop - you've sound like uve just swallowed a Sony press sheet- the CELL is poor at general purpose computing so most modern desktop chips would probably beat the cell in that area. 1) the CELL PPE is similar to the Xenon PPE just not quite as advanded. the other SPEs are completely different but operate at the same clock speed not a lower speed. 2)there is 1 PPE + 7 SPEs (SPE reserved for OS) 3)the SPEs having seperate memory is a potential WEAKNESS- having ONE pool of main memory makes things all round a lot simpler- having seperate pools of memory all over the place makes things much harder to get the system to work efficiently. the CELL also uses Cache. 4) the CELL has insane system bandwidth? looks like ur making things up now- internal bandwidth or memory bandwidth? 5)CELL can render graphics so successfully in fact that Sony decided to get a GPU for the PS3! well done CELL! 6) lol no idea what ur talking about
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GsSanAndreas

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#177 GsSanAndreas
Member since 2004 • 3075 Posts
We all know the Cell is better
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SuperMouse1986

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#178 SuperMouse1986
Member since 2007 • 194 Posts
Exacty. cell>>Xenon. developer says it too. Why don't lemmings accept reality.
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Supafly1

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#179 Supafly1
Member since 2003 • 4441 Posts
I do believe that Cell is more powerful, otherwise all of that money and time for Cell would've been a waste. But I also think that X-box 360' GPU is more powerful than PS3'.
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Pro_wrestler

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#180 Pro_wrestler
Member since 2002 • 7880 Posts
great. another thread where fanboys who really don't know anything about this stuff argue back and forth, saying the same thing over and over again.Dreams-Visions
I welcome people to provide links and stuff to change my mind but 90% of the people here just come in with one-liners, insult me and leave. I havent insulted anyone untill they have said such about me. So maybe I am a fan, but to say im illogical is a bit extreme and unlike most people, I want a PS3, I welcome the games cause its beneficial only given the experience I will get from them and can only get from a PS3. So I make a post thats not-so-illogical compared to the other thousands of posts a day. In no way did I insult the Cell as it is amazing for its more precise arithmathtic, I honestly dont care, but Im tired of seeing people worship the cell and bash the Xenon for what? Its "Smarts" so I made this post not out of fanboyism, but being sick to death of the depthless threads made each day about something they know nothing about, if my info is wrong then so be it, im open to learn the "truth" unlike fanboys in denial. Once again, thats coming from a fan who once owned 3 PS2s and is ready for another amazing generation like it provided in the past.
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TyrantDragon55

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#181 TyrantDragon55
Member since 2004 • 6851 Posts
God I am so sick of reading fanboys argue about things they know absolutely nothing about. Here's the truth, the X Box 360 and the PS3 are for the most part equal, each with their own strengths over the other. In the end, the only thing that really matters is the games.
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Pro_wrestler

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#182 Pro_wrestler
Member since 2002 • 7880 Posts
[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]great. another thread where fanboys who really don't know anything about this stuff argue back and forth, saying the same thing over and over again.Pro_wrestler
I welcome people to provide links and stuff to change my mind but 90% of the people here just come in with one-liners, insult me and leave. I havent insulted anyone untill they have said such about me. So maybe I am a fan, but to say im illogical is a bit extreme and unlike most people, I want a PS3, I welcome the games cause its beneficial only given the experience I will get from them and can only get from a PS3. So I make a post thats not-so-illogical compared to the other thousands of posts a day. In no way did I insult the Cell as it is amazing for its more precise arithmathtic, I honestly dont care, but Im tired of seeing people worship the cell and bash the Xenon for what? Its "Smarts" so I made this post not out of fanboyism, but being sick to death of the depthless threads made each day about something they know nothing about, if my info is wrong then so be it, im open to learn the "truth" unlike fanboys in denial. Once again, thats coming from a fan who once owned 3 PS2s and is ready for another amazing generation like it provided in the past.

My last statement.
God I am so sick of reading fanboys argue about things they know absolutely nothing about. Here's the truth, the X Box 360 and the PS3 are for the most part equal, each with their own strengths over the other. In the end, the only thing that really matters is the games.TyrantDragon55
I retrace my last statement. Im tired of people calling other people a fanboy because they bring a valid argument, try saying something else if you can think up something intelligent to say instead of saying the same thing over.
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TyrantDragon55

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#183 TyrantDragon55
Member since 2004 • 6851 Posts

[QUOTE="TyrantDragon55"]God I am so sick of reading fanboys argue about things they know absolutely nothing about. Here's the truth, the X Box 360 and the PS3 are for the most part equal, each with their own strengths over the other. In the end, the only thing that really matters is the games.Pro_wrestler
I retrace my last statement. Im tired of people calling other people a fanboy because they bring a valid argument, try saying something else if you can think up something intelligent to say instead of saying the same thing over.

I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to the people in this thread that keep saying "Cell > Xenon" or "360 > PS3" and then come up with BS to support it. Your thread is correct, there are areas where the 360's CPU outperforms the Cell and there are other areas where the Cell outperforms the 360s processor. In the end non of it really matters though.

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BosoxJoe5

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#184 BosoxJoe5
Member since 2003 • 251 Posts

and I wonder why apple dumped the power pc?

The dumped it because of the cost not speed. PowerPCs use, RISC Reduced Instruction Set, opposed to CISC, Complete Instruction Set, the Intel uses. This means it is much faster because it require less instructions than an Intel chip.
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gamer4life85

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#185 gamer4life85
Member since 2003 • 1203 Posts

The only area where one of the 2 consoles can actually out perform the other is the 360 GPU which is simply better then the ps3.

The PS3 does have the additional 7 DSPs on the Cell to add more floating point ops for graphics rendering, but the Xbox 360's three general purpose cores with custom D3D and dot product instructions are more customized for true graphics related calculations.

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SeanDiff

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#186 SeanDiff
Member since 2007 • 933 Posts
Cell is better then xenon stop trying to argue admit it i admit that 360's gpu has a slight edge cell is better no argument.
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trasherhead

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#187 trasherhead
Member since 2005 • 3058 Posts
*yawn* .... ..... Why is this still going? ITs not that hard realy. They are both strong at things they do best. The Cell does the new way of programing best with all the streaming of data which needs alot less ram. The Xenon does old style programing better. Don't ask me to go into detail about this, since i don't know any details. I just use logic. and in that we all know that the cell can crunch numbers a hell lot better then the Xenon and that its best at streaming data. And that the new forms of programing is starting to use streaming of data insted of loading it all into the Ram.
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beldugo

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#188 beldugo
Member since 2003 • 2374 Posts
[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="asmallchild"]I'm going to need a one line summary.asmallchild
Microsoft is publishing Alan Wake. :P

Awesome. :)

lmao..
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ddldave

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#189 ddldave
Member since 2006 • 886 Posts
well of course everybody knows the cell is better
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-KinGz-

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#190 -KinGz-
Member since 2006 • 5232 Posts

People were saying how much greater the Cell is than Xenon. Cell may be more precise than Xenon cause of its SPEs, but Xenon has more raw processing power cause of its true, 3 core versus Cells 1 core. Cells 8 SPEs doesnt matter since they are only as fast as the PPE that is a controller for each SPE and if the PPE struggles, they struggle.Link
Think of games like Kameo and N3 with hundreds or thousands of enemys on screen, thanks to its 3 cores its able to multiply its AI and Physics better than cell because its more efficient and more data is able to be pushed through its 3 cores, thats why it has a 512MB GPU Vs 256MB. Another example is Forza 2, 360 physics and AI calculations per second, along with real-time damage for all 300+ cars all at 60fps. http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/11214/Forza-2-60fps-Better-Physics-and-PGR3like-TV-Confirmed/

"It was revealed that the game engine is multi-threaded...It is therefore likely that the Xbox 360 version will also be able to take advantage of the Xenon CPU's three cores which have a total of six threads."

"It was also claimed that the game is unlikely to run on single-core systems"Link

If you look below, Each CPU in the Xenon only has to handle 2 threads, The Cells 1 CPU has to handle 8 threads, making it much less efficient and sometimes less powerful.

Xenon:

Cell:

Another reason Xenon is more efficient:
"The CPU cores (there are three) are the highest frequency PowerPC cores currently available, running at 3.2GHz. Throughout, the CPU uses extensive clock gating, leaving pipelines shut down until there are instructions to be processed; this dramatically reduces power consumption under real-world loads. The basic design is a 64-bit PowerPC architecture, with the complete PowerPC ISA available"
http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/power/library/pa-fpfxbox/

Pro_wrestler
Who resurrected this thread?
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Teuf_

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#191 Teuf_
Member since 2004 • 30805 Posts

Who resurrected this thread?-KinGz-

I don't know, but I really wish they hadn't. 

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Pro_wrestler

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#192 Pro_wrestler
Member since 2002 • 7880 Posts

[QUOTE="Pro_wrestler"][QUOTE="TyrantDragon55"]God I am so sick of reading fanboys argue about things they know absolutely nothing about. Here's the truth, the X Box 360 and the PS3 are for the most part equal, each with their own strengths over the other. In the end, the only thing that really matters is the games.TyrantDragon55

I retrace my last statement. Im tired of people calling other people a fanboy because they bring a valid argument, try saying something else if you can think up something intelligent to say instead of saying the same thing over.

I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to the people in this thread that keep saying "Cell > Xenon" or "360 > PS3" and then come up with BS to support it. Your thread is correct, there are areas where the 360's CPU outperforms the Cell and there are other areas where the Cell outperforms the 360s processor. In the end non of it really matters though.

Oh :D sorry, some people deny their ARSE off and didnt undertand that I wasnt bashing the Cell or say that Xenon was supiror. But people still insult me for it cause its as deep as their brains can think. This post has really brung out the fanboy in some people that seemed to be neutral, I can name a few but I wont, they probably dont even know that Im talking about them its sad cause they lost boatloads of credibility.
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SemiMaster

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#193 SemiMaster
Member since 2006 • 19011 Posts

[QUOTE="-KinGz-"]Who resurrected this thread?Teufelhuhn

I don't know, but I really wish they hadn't.

The dude who created it did. 

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Pro_wrestler

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#194 Pro_wrestler
Member since 2002 • 7880 Posts

[QUOTE="-KinGz-"]Who resurrected this thread?Teufelhuhn

I don't know, but I really wish they hadn't. 

Hahah, this thread will never die, sorry. Everytime I see a Hardware > Hardware thread then I will bring it to life again.
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Teuf_

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#195 Teuf_
Member since 2004 • 30805 Posts
[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]

[QUOTE="-KinGz-"]Who resurrected this thread?Pro_wrestler

I don't know, but I really wish they hadn't.

Hahah, this thread will never die, sorry. Everytime I see a Hardware > Hardware thread then I will bring it to life again.

Yeah, I guess its impossible to kill mis-information around here. 

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Doc_smock

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#196 Doc_smock
Member since 2005 • 308 Posts
The fact that the thread has is 10 pages long shows me the argument is definately not "over".
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Vadrick

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#197 Vadrick
Member since 2007 • 358 Posts
The Cell destroys Xenon stop reading fanboy blogs who have a degree in greenhouse and start reading actual dev comments . 
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Pro_wrestler

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#198 Pro_wrestler
Member since 2002 • 7880 Posts
[QUOTE="Pro_wrestler"][QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]

[QUOTE="-KinGz-"]Who resurrected this thread?Teufelhuhn

I don't know, but I really wish they hadn't.

Hahah, this thread will never die, sorry. Everytime I see a Hardware > Hardware thread then I will bring it to life again.

Yeah, I guess its impossible to kill mis-information around here. 

Care to explain how its misinformed instead of saying its misinformed, like I said prove me wrong or stop trying because it can go on forever. Also, why do you say such things about this post and not the other simplistic retarded threads that are made? LIke: "OMG teh PS3 is going to win cause of teh cell" then you open the topic and see that the TC doesnt have any links, photos or any insight as to what he is saying other than "You lems r gunna get ownededed". So although you dont agree with me and theres a possiblity that im wrong you say this thread shouldnt hold space here, well thats dumb considering that 2 Million of the 3.5 million System wars threads are pointless babling. Seriously...
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bdhoff

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#199 bdhoff
Member since 2003 • 4104 Posts
[QUOTE="muscleserge"]Xenon is cripled with only1mb of cache, because of it if it uses all of its threads it will get bottlenecked and lose efficiency. Both CPUs are good, each has a different purpose. Xenon=general processing Cell= Floting Point processing.ssbfalco
Unfortunately... Floating Point calculations aren't the most important CPU operations needed for games...

Exactly what types of CPU operations are the most important? Because FLOPs are what is necessary for the physics and geometry calculations that drive 3D games.
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DaddyDC650

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#200 DaddyDC650
Member since 2007 • 1241 Posts

People were saying how much greater the Cell is than Xenon. Cell may be more precise than Xenon cause of its SPEs, but Xenon has more raw processing power cause of its true, 3 core versus Cells 1 core. Cells 8 SPEs doesnt matter since they are only as fast as the PPE that is a controller for each SPE and if the PPE struggles, they struggle.Link
Think of games like Kameo and N3 with hundreds or thousands of enemys on screen, thanks to its 3 cores its able to multiply its AI and Physics better than cell because its more efficient and more data is able to be pushed through its 3 cores, thats why it has a 512MB GPU Vs 256MB. Another example is Forza 2, 360 physics and AI calculations per second, along with real-time damage for all 300+ cars all at 60fps. http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/11214/Forza-2-60fps-Better-Physics-and-PGR3like-TV-Confirmed/

"It was revealed that the game engine is multi-threaded...It is therefore likely that the Xbox 360 version will also be able to take advantage of the Xenon CPU's three cores which have a total of six threads."

"It was also claimed that the game is unlikely to run on single-core systems"Link

If you look below, Each CPU in the Xenon only has to handle 2 threads, The Cells 1 CPU has to handle 8 threads, making it much less efficient and sometimes less powerful.

 Xenon:

Cell:

Another reason Xenon is more efficient:
"The CPU cores (there are three) are the highest frequency PowerPC cores currently available, running at 3.2GHz. Throughout, the CPU uses extensive clock gating, leaving pipelines shut down until there are instructions to be processed; this dramatically reduces power consumption under real-world loads. The basic design is a 64-bit PowerPC architecture, with the complete PowerPC ISA available"
http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/power/library/pa-fpfxbox/

Pro_wrestler
Damage control!!! Tons of developers say otherwise. I also have the link to a video in which IGN's own editor-in-chief admitted to speaking with developers and guess what he said? The PS3 is more powerful! If 360's own editor-in-chief can admit it, why can't you?