Rare: Shooters will work on Natal

Speaking to VideoGamer.com Rare design director George Andreas has revealed that while it may not be immediately obvious how a first-person shooter would work with Natal, it's just a case of having to rethink how you approach the particular design problems.

"We're learning a lot of stuff about Natal every day, and there are many types of experiences that can be created with that technology. You just need to be able to rethink how you approach those particular design problems," said Andreas.

"To take a shooter, as an example, you would just have to rethink the way a shooter works," explained Andreas. "Shooters work the way they do at the moment because they're based around the original Xbox 360 controller. You throw that away, you throw that interface away and here's a completely different interface – now how do we create a shooter for this? Does it mean that you have to run, strafe, turn, throw grenades in the way that you're used to? Maybe not. Maybe there's another way of doing shooters."

He added: "You're probably not going to get exactly the same experience that you do with a conventional controller, but that could also be a very good thing. There may be new avenues there that people haven't explored yet that might open the product up to an even broader audience. We don't know."

Andreas concluded: "So, can you do a shooter on Natal? Of course you can. Will it be exactly the same as something you're used to on a control pad? The answer to that is probably not, but does that mean it's better or worse? Well we'll see what we can do."

Natal is currently expected to be released in 2010.

http://www.videogamer.com/news/rare_shooters_will_work_on_natal.html

It'll be interesting to see how they go about making shooters with Natal.

The only way I see shooters working NATAL is if you point your finger and you use your fingers as a crosshairs although I don't know if NATAL is precise enough to do that.

Hmm, I can imagine Perfect Dark 2 with it...

I wasn't aware there was any doubt it would?

I'm sure it will be different and I'm sure devs will find a way to incorporate shooters to work, but I still do not like the fact that Natal is throwing away the controller completely. It's my biggest concern about Natal.

Perfect Dark 2 on-rails shooter edition confirmed.

I wasn't aware there was any doubt it would?

goblaa

Ofc it can work with a shooter. All you have to to is adjust the controls to a mixture of movement readings and on screen interface and then slow the game a hell of a lot down.

This already happened with shooters on consoles. Less shortkeys and slower pace. This will be a similar process only more severe.

MS owns RARE. What did you expect them to say?IronBass

Same thing I was thinking. I still can't imagine how they would make a shooter work. Will it be on rails or something?

Man, I wanna see the idiot who has to flail his body and arms around to do this.

But they made PDZ, so....

MS owns RARE. What did you expect them to say?IronBass

But they made PDZ, so....[QUOTE="IronBass"]MS owns RARE. What did you expect them to say?aaronmullan

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

I wasn't aware there was any doubt it would?

Nintendo_Ownes7

Well, those people aren't very creative. This is the exact thing that happened when the wiimote came out. People looked at it, and said it would never work for any genre without a thought and just dismissed it. If people would just, STOP, THINK, and SOLVE they would see that anything is possible even with natal. The person quoted in the opening post is right, you have to re-think things.

If you worked for Ms, and MS said to make a shooter for natal, and you just said, "No, can't be done." they would just fire you and hire someone else.

When does the developers get that all we really want would be a Natal version of Black & White? It is completely obvious!

I dont know about anyone else but i think its fairly obvious that a natal specific peripheral device will be released to allow users to play games, as i just cant see how they will be able to incorporate these features into natal as it is.

im not sure if ill use natal but i do think rare will be able to make some good games with it

Well, since no one else here will actually try and use their imagination, I guess I will.

Let's assume that natal is everything MS says it is.

I assume you would shoot by pointing at the screen and making a hammer motion with your thumb. Turning could be done by grabbing the screen by bending your pointer finger. You could switch weapons by putting your arm down and then bringing it back up. Pointing up could reload. Grenades could be thrown with your off arm. Croutching could be done by just croutching. Movement could be done by putting one leg forward, backwards or to the side. Tapping your foot could act like a run button.

There, now ya just got to test it...

But they made PDZ, so....[QUOTE="IronBass"]MS owns RARE. What did you expect them to say?aaronmullan

[QUOTE="aaronmullan"]

But they made PDZ, so....[QUOTE="IronBass"]MS owns RARE. What did you expect them to say?G-O-M-J

Tapping your foot could act like a run button.

goblaa

Unfortunately, their Natal presentations have shown that raising your foot can have unintended consequences :P

[QUOTE="aaronmullan"]

But they made PDZ, so....[QUOTE="IronBass"]MS owns RARE. What did you expect them to say?G-O-M-J

If perfect dark 2 uses Natal it would pretty much put a nail in Rares coffin for me.Wii_Gamer_277

But they made PDZ, so....[QUOTE="IronBass"]MS owns RARE. What did you expect them to say?aaronmullan

I can just barely see rail-shooters working.

Holding an imaginary gun in your hand would be ineffective as I doubt Natal is good enough to tell the difference between a mere twitch of the index finger and a pull of the trigger.

I'd imagine using your hand as a gun and flicking your wrist to emulate the recoil after a gunshot would be ineffective due to input lag affecting your aim.

A method similar to the Laser Scope would definitely work, but as The Nerd showed, it probably shouldn't be done anyways.

As for regular shooters, your head can be used for looking. As for movement however, the logical move would be to use your legs, but since chances are we'd be sitting down, our legs wouldn't have anywhere near as much freedom as our hands would.

People are too caught up in the definition of a shooter.

Natal could innovate the genre in ways that go beyond input device. Maybe you wont have to strafe, or throw grenades, or do the usual Halo / Call of Duty stuff. Maybe you will have to do completely different things altogether. Which would be awesome, because Im tired of the same old control scheme for every game that I play.

And cant Natal be used in conjunction with a standard pad anyway? I thought it could read any device you show it?

[QUOTE="G-O-M-J"][QUOTE="aaronmullan"] and this.

aaronmullan

but since chances are we'd be sitting down, our legs wouldn't have anywhere near as much freedom as our hands would.

Technoweirdo

I think they fully intend people to be standing when playing games with natal.

only controllers work for shooters without aim assist/auto aimblehhhhhhhh5645

Ya see, this is the kinda crap I'm talking about. I put forth a good idea, but nope, all ideas must be impossible because they're different than a normal controller...

You would have to have a handheld peripheral in addition to Natal. Natal will only be good when its used as part of the control scheme, not the whole control scheme.

Well, since no one else here will actually try and use their imagination, I guess I will.

Let's assume that natal is everything MS says it is.

I assume you would shoot by pointing at the screen and making a hammer motion with your thumb. Turning could be done by grabbing the screen by bending your pointer finger. You could switch weapons by putting your arm down and then bringing it back up. Pointing up could reload. Grenades could be thrown with your off arm. Croutching could be done by just croutching. Movement could be done by putting one leg forward, backwards or to the side. Tapping your foot could act like a run button.

There, now ya just got to test it...

goblaa

Do it yourself. Once you get the hang of it, try doing it while matching the pace of current shooters. Then consider that it may work if they just make the games slower. Much slower.

Then consider if that will be fun or merely bothersome.'

My point is that there's a difference between making it work and making it work in a meaningfull way. The Wii is still struggling a bit with this.

So Perfect Dark 2 launching with Natal in 2010 am comfirmed? :?

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

Well, since no one else here will actually try and use their imagination, I guess I will.

Let's assume that natal is everything MS says it is.

I assume you would shoot by pointing at the screen and making a hammer motion with your thumb. Turning could be done by grabbing the screen by bending your pointer finger. You could switch weapons by putting your arm down and then bringing it back up. Pointing up could reload. Grenades could be thrown with your off arm. Croutching could be done by just croutching. Movement could be done by putting one leg forward, backwards or to the side. Tapping your foot could act like a run button.

There, now ya just got to test it...

Filthybastrd

Do it yourself. Once you get the hang of it, try doing it while matching the pace of current shooters. Then consider that it may work if they just make the games slower. Much slower.

Then consider if that will be fun or merely bothersome.'

My point is that there's a difference between making it work and making it work in a meaningfull way. The Wii is still struggling a bit with this.

Na, it should work fine with current shooter pacing. Remember, everyone else would be using the control scheme too.

As for making it work in a meaningful way, that's the way that makes you feel most in the game...even if it means having to hold a toy gun.

The big problem is, why is anyone making a shooter for natal?

[QUOTE="Technoweirdo"]

but since chances are we'd be sitting down, our legs wouldn't have anywhere near as much freedom as our hands would.

goblaa

I think they fully intend people to be standing when playing games with natal.

True, but even then, I'd imagine something like strafing to become a massive problem in your standard run 'n gun shooter. For example, say there's an enemy in front of me. I strafe to the left while still looking at my enemy. I then look where I'm heading and suddenly I'm looking at a wall instead of my screen. Since Natal would think I'm strafing to the left when instead, I'm running forward since I turned to my left, getting things to correct themselves would require very unnatural movements.

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

[QUOTE="Technoweirdo"]

but since chances are we'd be sitting down, our legs wouldn't have anywhere near as much freedom as our hands would.

Technoweirdo

I think they fully intend people to be standing when playing games with natal.

True, but even then, I'd imagine something like strafing to become a massive problem in your standard run 'n gun shooter. For example, say there's an enemy in front of me. I strafe to the left while still looking at my enemy. I then look where I'm heading and suddenly I'm looking at a wall instead of my screen. Since Natal would think I'm strafing to the left when instead, I'm running forward since I turned to my left, getting things to correct themselves would require very unnatural movements.

Well, I imagine movemtn would just be done by moving one foot one step over. Think of it like accelerating in that burnout demo they did at E3.

Try not to think about as moving your whole body, try to think about a giant d-pad under your feet.

[QUOTE="Filthybastrd"]

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

Well, since no one else here will actually try and use their imagination, I guess I will.

Let's assume that natal is everything MS says it is.

I assume you would shoot by pointing at the screen and making a hammer motion with your thumb. Turning could be done by grabbing the screen by bending your pointer finger. You could switch weapons by putting your arm down and then bringing it back up. Pointing up could reload. Grenades could be thrown with your off arm. Croutching could be done by just croutching. Movement could be done by putting one leg forward, backwards or to the side. Tapping your foot could act like a run button.

There, now ya just got to test it...

goblaa

Do it yourself. Once you get the hang of it, try doing it while matching the pace of current shooters. Then consider that it may work if they just make the games slower. Much slower.

Then consider if that will be fun or merely bothersome.'

My point is that there's a difference between making it work and making it work in a meaningfull way. The Wii is still struggling a bit with this.

Na, it should work fine with current shooter pacing. Remember, everyone else would be using the control scheme too.

As for making it work in a meaningful way, that's the way that makes you feel most in the game...even if it means having to hold a toy gun.

The big problem is, why is anyone making a shooter for natal?

Might just be me but I think it sounds like a major hassle compared to our traditional means of controlling a shooter.

Less fun than current mp and completely useless for sp.

[QUOTE="Filthybastrd"]

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

Well, since no one else here will actually try and use their imagination, I guess I will.

Let's assume that natal is everything MS says it is.

I assume you would shoot by pointing at the screen and making a hammer motion with your thumb. Turning could be done by grabbing the screen by bending your pointer finger. You could switch weapons by putting your arm down and then bringing it back up. Pointing up could reload. Grenades could be thrown with your off arm. Croutching could be done by just croutching. Movement could be done by putting one leg forward, backwards or to the side. Tapping your foot could act like a run button.

There, now ya just got to test it...

goblaa

Do it yourself. Once you get the hang of it, try doing it while matching the pace of current shooters. Then consider that it may work if they just make the games slower. Much slower.

Then consider if that will be fun or merely bothersome.'

My point is that there's a difference between making it work and making it work in a meaningfull way. The Wii is still struggling a bit with this.

Na, it should work fine with current shooter pacing. Remember, everyone else would be using the control scheme too.

As for making it work in a meaningful way, that's the way that makes you feel most in the game...even if it means having to hold a toy gun.

The big problem is, why is anyone making a shooter for natal?

Lets say that shooters will work with Natal. But will they be better? Will they be funner? Is there even a point?

It's like the initial excitement over Tablet PCs; "Oooh look, I can write notes on my PC just like a sheet of paper!".

While scribing characters onto a flat surface with a stick is older than punching buttons it isn't inherently more intuitive, efficient, or effective; in essence its a gimmick with a limited subset of uses.