Rdr2 is as much an RPG as Witcher... Change my mind.

Im in Valentine, world is open to me now. I'm picking and choosing missions and opening systems as I discover them... Gambling, the fence... Bathing..... Etc. I am constantly managing the attributes, appearance and inventory and every mission is deeply rooted in characters and story telling...

It is not possible to call the Witcher an WRPG and also call RDR2 something else....

Change my mind...

Well by definition alone many games are RPG now... Farcry 5 is a RPG, Assassins Creed is a RPG.

I can agree with you, as if we call "RPG" as "choose your adventure" but not stats, gear crafting, leveling up, etc etc. I personally didn't play RDR2 so I'm judgeing it based on RDR1 and I can agree with you on that.

In a lot of ways the line between 3rd/1st person RPG's and Action Adventure's has blurred to the point that there is very little difference between them. You could even call the likes of Assassin's Creed Odyssey an RPG. However a true RPG should have character stats though, i.e. Strength, Dexterity etc. and not be a master of all trades, so far I don't think I've seen that in an Action Adventure game.

I thought about the same thing with the STALKER games, especially now that I'm playing Lost Alpha. Plenty of stats, repairs, customization and upgrades for character, weapons, ammo, suits, not to mention micromanagement of ammo, batteries, thirst, hunger, radiation poisoning, bleeding, endurance, carrying load.....

Can't just use ammo unless they're loaded into the web belt.

And this isn't even as complex as Misery for CoP. That one takes micromanagement to the extreme.

Call of Pripyat also has consequences branching that depends on the decision and actions the player takes on certain missions. It could mean lower prices for artifacts I sell and/or other factions shooting my character on sight. The consequences would last for the rest of the game.

Most of games are trying to have anything and be everything.

For example the Survival Horror games were never shooter games but they began becoming 3rd person/1st person shooter games.

Cover system originally was made for Time Crisis games now lots of 3rd persons use that.

character progression only appeared in RPGs but more and more genres started using it.(I think that Tomb Raider and the Angel Of Darkness was the first none RPG game using this feature)

driving was exclusive for driving focused games but GTA was the first game that had both driving and on foot sections.

Most of the developers also try to add stealth in their games even when their games were not stealth focused.(GTA SA for example)

I genuinely don't even know the definition of RPG any more. Most games seem to have what I used to consider core features of RPGs

If the game has any "leveling up" system, then I consider it RPG.

So 2 has consequences on your actions now?

@TheEroica:

1. RDR2 has no actual level up system.

2. You gain zero experience from enemies.

3. Rpg's aren't about gambling or bathing...etc.

These two factors alone are fundamental in defining an rpg. Red Dead Redemption 2 is as much of an rpg as Legend of Zelda, if anything. But the Witcher is far deeper into the genre than that. Rpg's aren't about changing your appearance and almost any kind of game lets you manage minor attributes.

@davillain-: rdr2 levels up like Skyrim... Action based. Plus you can upgrade all your weapons and you have a general obligation to keep clean and manage the social interactions between characters and even horses!

I'll agree with that.

This is why I like 'tags' instead of genres.

They are both open-world, action, adventure, RPGs.

RPG comes last because it is the least descriptive of how the game plays. I would say both Witcher 3 and RDR2 have the same tags, in the same order.

Unless you can put +2 points in to dexterity it's not an RPG. These are rules.

Dexterity usually apply to skill with weapons. In an RPG with guns, upgrades can decrease reload times, increase accuracy, fire rate, etc.

Knock this battery off my shoulder

In essence it is. You do upgrade as the game goes on. Your strength does as does your stamina and health. Your guns and horse getting better can be seen as upgrades too, and the wealth of things to do and ways to play does give you the freedom you'd expect in an RPG.

The old dice roll definitions no longer apply, and they haven't done for a long time.

Sounds about right. I haven't even look at the gameplay, so once it hits PC, guess I'll be playing Western RPG game and I'm okay with that :)

At least you know with rockstar your getting your money's worth.

No I disagree, dont have time for a detailed post so Ill just say this about RDR2:

-Dialogue sequences not nearly as long/elaborate, not as many choices in each.

-RPG elements are very light in comparison to TW3, I dont spend nearly as much time in the skills/level up tree for instance, there is not really one in RDR2. Different kind of game for me. Its action-adventure with RPG elements, but not a full fledged RPG at its core.

You know it's funny, what you're saying about RDR2 is exactly what I have always said about Witcher 3, it's an action game with very light RPG elements, not a fully fledged RPG. I haven't played RDR2 for comparison.

I'm enjoying the rpg elements the hunting changes the pace well enough.

It's not as much of an RPG as The Witcher because there are no skills or alternate builds involved. There are also way less side missions. At most you just level up as you go in the game, but progression is very linear.

It's more of an open world action adventure game with some deep RPG elements.

As much as I'm loving RDR2, I don't think it qualifies because there are no complex skill trees. You still have to pay more attention to stats and percentages in The Witcher.

That said, there is definitely way more to do and think about in RDR2 than the previous game. Taking care of your horse is necessary, eating to avoid stamina-health loss, gun maintenance, overhauled outfit system more closer to GTA now, and being limited in the number of weapons you carry on your person (much better imo, as you now have to think ahead of time about your encounters).

RPG has always been a loosely-defined label, even as far back as D&D itself. Different people interpret RPG to mean different things.

I don't feel it's an RPG although AC:O feels a lot like one.

I dont think Rockstar knew what they wanted RDR2 to be.

Its like they did not know what they were aiming for, so all their shots went wide..

If only your dad's had did the same. Ohhh burn!!

j/k. ;)

Or what about:

Far Cry 5: FPS with RPG elements, I mean it's still mainly an FPS

AC: Action advencture with RPG elements

So many genres have added RPG elements now :)

I've been saying this for years now. Grand Theft Auto (and now RDR) has always basically been an RPG.

That's really just artificial nonsense though. Not even really a game mechanic, it's just the amount of HP assigned to enemies. Any game can assign 1 hit kills, or 10 hit kills. depending on the amount of HP an enemy character gets relative to the power of an attack. I guess traditionally RPG"s make those HP's "visible" to the player, so they have to do the math in their head and forumulate a strategy to get the HP down to zero. I don't mind the rare game that still does this, but it's rather archaic form of gameplay IMO, really better suited for turn based type games.

Witcher 3's RPG elements aren't very light. You'll still get screwed in theory if you are out-levelled in character, items, and equipment.

And I say in theory, because the skill tree is imbalanced. After level 10 or so, you can just spam an upgraded quen, dodge strafe, and light attack every enemy until the credits roll. Even if you have under performing weapons and gear, as long as you know the attack patterns and as long as you have the dexterity, you can slay enemies that are supposedly much stronger.

I'm not gonna try to change your mind. I just came here to read the fanboy rage!

@whatafailure: but, what I don't manage in terms of staring at skill trees, I do manage in terms of the moment to moment attributes of my character.

Its not different than survival mode on Fallout new Vegas. I played that mode throughout the entire game, eating, sleeping, managing radiation. Rdr2 plays mostly the same.

I'm choosing his look, his weapons, his weapons looks, his weapons attributes,

it has crafting, cooking, random encounters and its very narrative heavy and character focused... It literally sometimes feels like playing the Witcher to me...

Rdr has better horses though, and it's not even close.

@nepu7supastar7:

Rdr2 DOES have a leveling sysyem

You get no experience from enemies in Skyrim...

... Because they share the same leveling concept. It's skill based.

Is Skyrim not an RPG either?

@TheEroica:

But that's different. The level up system in Skyrim makes a huge difference in combat while in RDR2, you only feel a bump. Basically, the rpg-like aspects RDR 2 has are mostly used as gimmicks. But they don't function to their full capacity like in real rpg's.

Maybe we can call it an rpg for having it in general but on a scale, it's lighter than CokeZero.

The levelling system does make a difference I have felt a difference as I'm progressing not massive but definitely noticeable.

"RPG" is no longer a real genre anymore, but just a set of mechanics that you can apply to any genre.