Red Steel 2 is a major flop. Only sold 50k. UbiTrash's karma.

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"][...] I'm sure userbase isn't a problem.foxhound_fox

More to the point, why don't the people who would enjoy RS2 have a Wii, or, if they already have a Wii, why aren't they buying RS2? I think that's a more relevant point.

[QUOTE="LastRambo341"] You are DEAD wrong, here is why they don't sell: * Railshooters? People got bored of them * PIRACY, look at the difference of people that bought and downloaded HOTD Overkill * Advertisement * Niche games * Review scores Don't give me this nonsense that Wii owners are only interested in fitness games or whateverGamingcucumber

And the review scores has been great for Wii games that didn't met the sales expectations, even Shigeru Miyamoto has been dissapointed on some sales. I think you think you have the answer and a clue of the Wii platform, but in general you seem to, not so much.You are saying that it is only by chance that mainstream games such as Wii Sports, Wii Play, Carnival Games, Mini game colletions, Wii Fit and + along with the Mario games are the only ones selling.

You can always start by actually looking at a sales chart of the best selling Wii games and there would be no need for you to reply back since the answer should be infront of your eyes.

I look at the games that I showed you and that proved to me right there that there is a hardcore audience.

Some people got turned off from The Conduit hence it didn't sell a million

Piracy for God's sake. 630k people boughtHOTD Overkillbut 870k DOWNLOADED it. I can't believe you missed this.

And yes, I know the best selling games are for the casuals, but that does not mean that core ones don't sell well

Wow, actually the game is getting good reviews

And you're only counting 7 days in March BTW.

Its sold over 100k already, and likely will have long legs just like the original

And its not even out in JP to my knowledge

Red Steel 2 pulled a Killzone2 on us all

Its funny how you people hold up the critical darlings on the Wii as examples of "hardcore" games on the Wii not selling, yet completely neglect to mention how deeply flawed these titles are on multiple levels.

Most of them are wedged into niche genres, have little exposure beyond a few half hearted television advertisements and some website ads, tend to have flawed gameplay of some description, have bad decisions made about them and are sent out to die on retail shelves with nothing to distinguish them from every other piece of software.

You talk about MadWorld and Zack and Wiki, No More Heroes and De Blob like they would have sold on the other systems. The fact is, easily, they wouldnt have.

Hardly any third parties have released AAA projects on the Wii. Those that have, despite their almost deliberate hinderances, have seen success. You cant stack up these niche titles against the likes of Call of Duty, Resident Evil or Monster Hunter.

The Wii audience is not buying these games because, traditional, mainstream gamers do not want them. Its simple.

When developers release AAA mainstream titles, with decent exposure and actual effort put into the image of the software, and they dont sell, then come to me and tell me its a userbase problem. Until then, the fault lies squarely at the feet of the publisher.

Wow, actually the game is getting good reviews

And you're only counting 7 days in March BTW.

Its sold over 100k already, and likely will have long legs just like the original

And its not even out in JP to my knowledge

Red Steel 2 pulled a Killzone2 on us all

darth-pyschosis

Wow, actually the game is getting good reviews

And you're only counting 7 days in March BTW.

Its sold over 100k already, and likely will have long legs just like the original

And its not even out in JP to my knowledge

Red Steel 2 pulled a Killzone2 on us all

Its based on 12 days of data. Not saying its not a 'sales' flop .. but 12 days is nothing. Wait for a full month's worth of sales data, then we'll see what its like.Haziqonfire

Thank you, also I still need to buy a copy.

I have been playing through it lately and am liking it alot. Too bad it sold so little. It's a very good game.

[QUOTE="Gamingcucumber"]

[QUOTE="LastRambo341"] You are DEAD wrong, here is why they don't sell: * Railshooters? People got bored of them * PIRACY, look at the difference of people that bought and downloaded HOTD Overkill * Advertisement * Niche games * Review scores Don't give me this nonsense that Wii owners are only interested in fitness games or whateverLastRambo341

And the review scores has been great for Wii games that didn't met the sales expectations, even Shigeru Miyamoto has been dissapointed on some sales. I think you think you have the answer and a clue of the Wii platform, but in general you seem to, not so much.You are saying that it is only by chance that mainstream games such as Wii Sports, Wii Play, Carnival Games, Mini game colletions, Wii Fit and + along with the Mario games are the only ones selling.

You can always start by actually looking at a sales chart of the best selling Wii games and there would be no need for you to reply back since the answer should be infront of your eyes.

I look at the games that I showed you and that proved to me right there that there is a hardcore audience.

Some people got turned off from The Conduit hence it didn't sell a million

Piracy for God's sake. 630k people boughtHOTD Overkillbut 870k DOWNLOADED it. I can't believe you missed this.

And yes, I know the best selling games are for the casuals, but that does not mean that core ones don't sell well

Its funny how you people hold up the critical darlings on the Wii as examples of "hardcore" games on the Wii not selling, yet completely neglect to mention how deeply flawed these titles are on multiple levels.

Most of them are wedged into niche genres, have little exposure beyond a few half hearted television advertisements and some website ads, tend to have flawed gameplay of some description, have bad decisions made about them and are sent out to die on retail shelves with nothing to distinguish them from every other piece of software.

You talk about MadWorld and Zack and Wiki, No More Heroes and De Blob like they would have sold on the other systems. The fact is, easily, they wouldnt have.

Hardly any third parties have released AAA projects on the Wii. Those that have, despite their almost deliberate hinderances, have seen success. You cant stack up these niche titles against the likes of Call of Duty, Resident Evil or Monster Hunter.

The Wii audience is not buying these games because, traditional, mainstream gamers do not want them. Its simple.

When developers release AAA mainstream titles, with decent exposure and actual effort put into the image of the software, and they dont sell, then come to me and tell me its a userbase problem. Until then, the fault lies squarely at the feet of the publisher.

eveileb-ekam

This. Here. About ten thousand times over.

Plus, on top of all that, Wii games tend to sell consistent amounts over extended periods of time as opposed to a huge spike upon release and largely zero sales therafter as 360/PS3 games tend to. Red Steel's fate is up in the air for a long time to come, even if the start wasn't stellar.

Wow, actually the game is getting good reviews

And you're only counting 7 days in March BTW.

Its sold over 100k already, and likely will have long legs just like the original

And its not even out in JP to my knowledge

Red Steel 2 pulled a Killzone2 on us all

Ubi deserve it, thinking that can charge pc budgetware full retail price for a wii games, What they have been doing was/is criminal.

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"][...] I'm sure userbase isn't a problem.foxhound_fox

Normally I would feel bad. In this case I don't really care. Too little, too late, not good enough, bad reputation. Ubisoft had this one coming.

ActicEdge

Red Steel 2 is better than it's predecessor but that's not saying much. I personally dont think it's worth $50. The gameplay works well but everything else about the game is underdeveloped. If 3rd parties want big numbers on their Wii games, they have to bring the whole package. The reason why Wii owners flock to Nintendo games is because they're known for quality. 3rd parties on the other hand are inconsistent in that regard.

There is no replay value because there is no multiplayer. kansasdude2009

[QUOTE="Gamingcucumber"] How am I DEAD WRONG. When none of the games I mentioned are in fact on rail shooters. And there has been plenty of ads for Wii games that hasn't ended up selling well at all even though they might have deserved it. And the niche arguments works to an extent but when Bordelands and Heavy Rain can push numbers there is no reason for No More Heroes and Red Steel 2 not to.

And the review scores has been great for Wii games that didn't met the sales expectations, even Shigeru Miyamoto has been dissapointed on some sales. I think you think you have the answer and a clue of the Wii platform, but in general you seem to, not so much.You are saying that it is only by chance that mainstream games such as Wii Sports, Wii Play, Carnival Games, Mini game colletions, Wii Fit and + along with the Mario games are the only ones selling.

You can always start by actually looking at a sales chart of the best selling Wii games and there would be no need for you to reply back since the answer should be infront of your eyes.

I look at the games that I showed you and that proved to me right there that there is a hardcore audience.

Some people got turned off from The Conduit hence it didn't sell a million

Piracy for God's sake. 630k people boughtHOTD Overkillbut 870k DOWNLOADED it. I can't believe you missed this.

And yes, I know the best selling games are for the casuals, but that does not mean that core ones don't sell well

shame. i'm really enjoying it at the moment.

and anyway those charts didn't include europe. and it hasn't been advertised really well in europe.

wait a month, THEN we csn talk

Ubi deserve it, thinking that can charge pc budgetware full retail price for a wii games, What they have been doing was/is criminal.

the_deamon

I look at the games that I showed you and that proved to me right there that there is a hardcore audience. Some people got turned off from The Conduit hence it didn't sell a million. Piracy for God's sake. 630k people boughtHOTD Overkillbut 870k DOWNLOADED it. I can't believe you missed this.

And yes, I know the best selling games are for the casuals, but that does not mean that core ones don't sell wellLastRambo341

The core games sales are actually pretty terrible on most part. Zak and Wiki for example did not sell well at all. In fact I'm looking at a list of the top 100 best selling Wii games right now ( 2 lists actually) and the games on that list are usually FAR from being "core" games unless you count Lego Batman, MySims, Mario & Sonic as core games. With a few exceptions such as Red Steel 1, House Of Dead and Metroid Prime there isn't much on that list that isn't Mario, collections or casual games.

And adressing the Piracy issue, you can't count those 870k as potential buyers since I know first hand that most people who choose to pirate a game are not potential customers, if they get locked out or denied to pirate a copy most are more likely to skip out on that game altogether, maybe 30-50% of those would buy House Of Dead. Nor do I think that the people who pirate would go for games such as Sonic and the secret rings, EA Sports Active, Just Dance etc. I would more or less say that the "core" gamers a more likely to pirate one of the few games they might want to own on the Wii and focus their money on perhaps another system, if they haven't already pirated that as well which could be the case. Anyhow at the end of the day, those people are not in a majority and if 1 million users ( those who pirated House Of Dead + those who bought it + perhaps a few more ) are all the core market the Wii has, then the answer is right there.

I say that the userbase is very much the root to the problems the Wii is having with it's software sales and 3rd party support, and I base that on good reasons.

Huge casual market share, minimal core.

Userbase is not split into core and casual, it is infinitely more complicated than that. You cite Zak and Wiki, but that is a niche game which will only appeal to a very small audience. Certainly not the core, mainstream consumers that drive the kind of software sales of shooters and action games.

Are you really trying to tell me that a core user that plays games like Call of Duty, Resident Evil, that kind of thing, is the same type of gamer as someone who chooses Zak and Wiki, de Blob and Little Kings Story?

If you are, then you are wrong.

System Wars has simplified the userbase issue so much. Games like those you mentioned simply do not appeal to a mainstream audience, nor a casual one. They appeal to lapsed gamers, perhaps, or those whose tastes lie in software outside of normal appeal.

Userbase is not split into core and casual, it is infinitely more complicated than that. You cite Zak and Wiki, but that is a niche game which will only appeal to a very small audience. Certainly not the core, mainstream consumers that drive the kind of software sales of shooters and action games.

Are you really trying to tell me that a core user that plays games like Call of Duty, Resident Evil, that kind of thing, is the same type of gamer as someone who chooses Zak and Wiki, de Blob and Little Kings Story?

If you are, then you are wrong.

System Wars has simplified the userbase issue so much. Games like those you mentioned simply do not appeal to a mainstream audience, nor a casual one. They appeal to lapsed gamers, perhaps, or those whose tastes lie in software outside of normal appeal.

eveileb-ekam

I agree. Core gamers are not on any system, particularly not something as cheap as a Wii. If there's a game good enough to push them, they will acquire the system just to play that one game. The problem with third party offerings on the Wii is that none of them have been given enough priority and funding. Wii games with nearly no exception are cheap affairs with little to no advertising or hype to push them.

Is it any surprise that they don't sell? I'm surprised they sell as well as they do.

Red Steel 2 is actually really, really good. Better than SC Conviction, easily. The problem with it is that it's on the Wii, so media reviewers automatically have a negative bias against it. Yes, 81 on Metacritic means that reviewers sold this game short. It's better than that.

Many gamers who game mainly on 360 or PS3 won't even give this game a second glance, just on the strength of brand loyalty. They don't care how good the game is - the fact that it's on the Wii means they won't play it.

Many gamers who are in their tweens also won't give any Wii game the time of day. They're concerned about their "mature" image. Playing something - anything - on the Wii will tarnish that image so they'll stay firmly away.

That leaves us older gamers, and to tell the truth, many gamers of my age have given up gaming or gone on to less dedicated games - since they rarely have time to game anymore.

Red Steel 2 will probably go the way of Beyond Good and Evil. If motion controls never pan out better than this, it can be held as the pinnacle of motion brawl gaming. It'll be a cult classic, which is unfortunate. For gamers, that is. Ubisoft doesn't care. Just Dance more than made up for any shortcoming of Red Steel franchise.roxlimn

The people you describe aren't gamers, though. They're just fanboys and scenekids, it seems. :(

[QUOTE="roxlimn"]Red Steel 2 is actually really, really good. Better than SC Conviction, easily. The problem with it is that it's on the Wii, so media reviewers automatically have a negative bias against it. Yes, 81 on Metacritic means that reviewers sold this game short. It's better than that.

Many gamers who game mainly on 360 or PS3 won't even give this game a second glance, just on the strength of brand loyalty. They don't care how good the game is - the fact that it's on the Wii means they won't play it.

Many gamers who are in their tweens also won't give any Wii game the time of day. They're concerned about their "mature" image. Playing something - anything - on the Wii will tarnish that image so they'll stay firmly away.

That leaves us older gamers, and to tell the truth, many gamers of my age have given up gaming or gone on to less dedicated games - since they rarely have time to game anymore.

Red Steel 2 will probably go the way of Beyond Good and Evil. If motion controls never pan out better than this, it can be held as the pinnacle of motion brawl gaming. It'll be a cult classic, which is unfortunate. For gamers, that is. Ubisoft doesn't care. Just Dance more than made up for any shortcoming of Red Steel franchise.Hexagon_777

The people you describe aren't gamers, though. They're just fanboys and scenekids, it seems. :(

[QUOTE="roxlimn"]Red Steel 2 is actually really, really good. Better than SC Conviction, easily. The problem with it is that it's on the Wii, so media reviewers automatically have a negative bias against it. Yes, 81 on Metacritic means that reviewers sold this game short. It's better than that.

Many gamers who game mainly on 360 or PS3 won't even give this game a second glance, just on the strength of brand loyalty. They don't care how good the game is - the fact that it's on the Wii means they won't play it.

Many gamers who are in their tweens also won't give any Wii game the time of day. They're concerned about their "mature" image. Playing something - anything - on the Wii will tarnish that image so they'll stay firmly away.

That leaves us older gamers, and to tell the truth, many gamers of my age have given up gaming or gone on to less dedicated games - since they rarely have time to game anymore.

Red Steel 2 will probably go the way of Beyond Good and Evil. If motion controls never pan out better than this, it can be held as the pinnacle of motion brawl gaming. It'll be a cult classic, which is unfortunate. For gamers, that is. Ubisoft doesn't care. Just Dance more than made up for any shortcoming of Red Steel franchise.Hexagon_777

The people you describe aren't gamers, though. They're just fanboys and scenekids, it seems. :(

Umm, I won't give it a glance because I don't find waving my arms in front of my tv entertaining.

Umm, I won't give it a glance because I don't find waving my arms in front of my tv entertaining.

rp108

In Red Steel 2, moving your arm is generally associated with controlling your character. You're not just waving your arms in front of your TV.