Rockstar's Dan Houser Challenges Nintendo's Vision of Gaming

New York Magazine recently had an interview with Vice President of Rockstar Games Dan Houser, who co-wrote GTA4's script. He made a number of comments about his opinions of the current state of the game industry, and how Grand Theft Auto 4 fits into that. I've excerpted a few interesting quotes below:

"Yeah, **** all this stuff about casual gaming. I think people still want games that are groundbreaking. The Wii is doing something totally different, which is fantastic. We're hopefully going to prove that there's also a very big audience for people who want entertainment in another form, who think of games as being a narrative device that can challenge movies. We always said: We're not going release a large number of games. They're going to have the production values of movies. They're gonna be about themes that interest us whatever the medium, instead of the weird, special video game-only themes that too many people make - orcs and elves, or monsters, or space. We felt you could make a good game and have it be about something we could actually relate to. Or aspire to."

"If you don't like any violent content in your entertainment, then I apologize because I do. And I've unfortunately been exposed to it my entire life. I agree that the world would be a greater place if all of the guns and all of the bombs disappeared, but that certainly is not in the agenda. If we equally got rid of a lot of books that talk about violence, okay. But if we don't like these games because they've got content that we're happy to see in movies and TV shows, then what you're saying is you don't like the medium because we don't have a George Clooney type sticking his face in front of the camera. There is nothing in the game you would not see in a TV show, or a movie a hundred times over, so I don't understand what the conversation is about. We set out to make games that felt like they could culturally exist alongside the movies we were watching and the books we were reading, and hopefully we're getting close to those goals."

What do you think of this, people of System Wars? Is Rockstar's mission of creating current, violent, high-production-value games that attempt to challenge films something you want to see more of in the industry? Or do you prefer the approach that Nintendo is pushing, with games designed to be playable by an entire family, and a focus on gameplay above narrative or cultural relevance? Or is there room for both?

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

Already posted, homie. with a really long thread to go with it.Dreams-Visions

I don't see it anywhere around, and the only thread I have seen with it at all didn't even break 3 pages.

Nintendo doesn't hold a monopoly on casual games sales though so why single them out?

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

goblaa

I think you took what he said the wrong way.

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

goblaa

What are they doing that's wrong, in trying to make games that rival movies? Would you rather they said "We can't possibly ever rival movies, we shouldn't even try"?

I don't think that the two visions are mutually exclusive, any more than the existence of art-house films contradicts the existence of cartoons. But I admire Rockstar's ambition, I think they're right in believing that games can be a narrative device to challenge films, and I think that making games that are culturally relevant and challenge the player is something that should be praised.

Just because nobody has succeeded yet doesn't mean that nobody should try.

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

goblaa

If you consider Shadow of the Collossus the closest thing to a movie, then you need to watch some new movies or play some new games bud.

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

Cicatraz_ESP

If you consider Shadow of the Collossus the closest thing to a movie, then you need to watch some new movies or play some new games bud.

He is probably one of those kids who thinks he is deep or different for liking that game. Just like the following Donnie Darko has developed.

While I'm really not a fan of this relatively new idea that a game has to be violent and full of sex to be "mature", I do agree with a lot of what the guy says. When I play a game, I don't want to feel like it's a PG-13 version of something I'd rather see rated R; I already have a lot of issues with movies in this sense, so I don't need it in my games. Can you make a great, mature game without throwing in prostitutes, cursing and cop killing? Sure. But just as this themes sometimes come up in the books, TV shows, and movies I've read/seen, so too should they pop up in games. Hell, I loved the sex scene in Mass Effect, simply because it made me feel like they weren't pulling any narrative punches.

Nintendo has amazing game designs, but every once in a while they could put out a game that little Timmy shouldn't play...

While I'm really not a fan of this relatively new idea that a game has to be violent and full of sex to be "mature", I do agree with a lot of what the guy says. When I play a game, I don't want to feel like it's a PG-13 version of something I'd rather see rated R; I already have a lot of issues with movies in this sense, so I don't need it in my games. Can you make a great, mature game without throwing in prostitutes, cursing and cop killing? Sure. But just as this themes sometimes come up in the books, TV shows, and movies I've read/seen, so too should they pop up in games. Hell, I loved the sex scene in Mass Effect, simply because it made me feel like they weren't pulling any narrative punches.

Nintendo has amazing game designs, but every once in a while they could put out a game that little Timmy shouldn't play...

SeanBond

But they never, ever will. Ever.

[QUOTE="Cicatraz_ESP"][QUOTE="goblaa"]

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

AAllxxjjnn

If you consider Shadow of the Collossus the closest thing to a movie, then you need to watch some new movies or play some new games bud.

He is probably one of those kids who thinks he is deep or different for liking that game. Just like the following Donnie Darko has developed.

Possibly. I just don't see how ANYONE can say SotC has more of a movie feel then freaking GTAIV. It's not just a flawed view, it's plain wrong.

I just want fun games thats all, could be ultra-realistic view of the world by Rockstar or could be a cute comical character in a silly world by Nintendo. Each need each another.

i think a lot of people need to realize that its going to be a long, long time before video games become as culturally accepted as movies are. video games arent going to go away any time soon, but its going to remain the odd man out for a while.

it takes a long time for a new form of entertainment to be fully accepted by everyone. just look at rock and roll. You had some people going around saying it was the devils music. I guess you could say that games today are the new r&r. this being why people like jack thompson are kicking up a fuss. He's just like most parents during the 1950s, and his reaction is similar to that of how older folks felt about rock and roll when it first became popular. Eventually, everyone of his generation will die, leaving only those who have grown up with video games. its at that point that they'll become fully accepted as an art form, just like cinema and music

I can't believe such a briliiant man is near (or at) the head of R*. I have to admit, this guy just landed a home run with me. He basically summed up my exact feelings on the current situation of gaming.

What the wii is doing is great, but the gaming audience I'm a part of wants ground breaking, new things that definately do rival movies and novels. Its unbelievable that I came across a thread like this, this guys ideas are like almost right out of my head.

Keep it up good sir.

Possibly. I just don't see how ANYONE can say SotC has more of a movie feel then freaking GTAIV. It's not just a flawed view, it's plain wrong.

Cicatraz_ESP

Why do you find it so hard to at least let someone else have their own opinion, not to mention try to understand it?

I also think SOTC is one of, if not, THE closest expieriences that videogames have come to a movie ever.

I just want fun games thats all, could be ultra-realistic view of the world by Rockstar or could be a cute comical character in a silly world by Nintendo. Each need each another.

ArisShadows

same here. i don't like people who bash nintendo games because they're kiddy or mature games for appealing much to the immature people.

[QUOTE="Cicatraz_ESP"]

Possibly. I just don't see how ANYONE can say SotC has more of a movie feel then freaking GTAIV. It's not just a flawed view, it's plain wrong.

Heydanbud92

Why do you find it so hard to at least let someone else have their own opinion, not to mention try to understand it?

I also think SOTC is one of, if not, THE closest expieriences that videogames have come to a movie ever.

I don't think SotC is very movie-like in the way it goes about things. It'd make a terrible movie, actually. I think it worked because it focused on its strengths as a game, instead of trying to be like a movie. I like what SotC did a lot.

I prefer both. I love Metal Gear Solid, yet I still enjoy playing Super Mario Galaxy. I have a World of Warcraft account, yet my favorite multiplayer game is Brawl. There's room for both in the industry.

And R*, getting a higher average score than Zelda: OoT and SMG on GameRankings does not mean that Nintendo is failing.

I prefer both, and Rockstar doesn't exactly challenge Nintendo, but rather accepts that there are multiple paths to follow and they decided to follow a different one. In no way, shape or form do they state that 'the only vision is their vision.'

As for their vision, it all comes down to preference, really. I play games as a way to escape reality and prefer those that put me into a rich fantasy world filled with interesting characters and concepts. I am not a huge fan of realism in games (because I feel that it often cuts into the concept of fun) and never was. I also prefer not to watch lengthy cutscenes. That said, I do enjoy GTA, but only for its rich, amazing world rather than its characters and plot, which do not interest me in the slightest.

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

Cicatraz_ESP

If you consider Shadow of the Collossus the closest thing to a movie, then you need to watch some new movies or play some new games bud.

Can you please point out a game that comes even close the the quality of acting and direction seen in in SotC?

[QUOTE="Heydanbud92"][QUOTE="Cicatraz_ESP"]

Possibly. I just don't see how ANYONE can say SotC has more of a movie feel then freaking GTAIV. It's not just a flawed view, it's plain wrong.

sonicmj1

Why do you find it so hard to at least let someone else have their own opinion, not to mention try to understand it?

I also think SOTC is one of, if not, THE closest expieriences that videogames have come to a movie ever.

I don't think SotC is very movie-like in the way it goes about things. It'd make a terrible movie, actually. I think it worked because it focused on its strengths as a game, instead of trying to be like a movie. I like what SotC did a lot.

And it is perhaps one of the most prominently featured video games in a non-video-game-oriened movie ever (Reign Over Me). Go figure.

Eternal darkness, Geist.Marth6781

[QUOTE="Cicatraz_ESP"][QUOTE="goblaa"]

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

goblaa

If you consider Shadow of the Collossus the closest thing to a movie, then you need to watch some new movies or play some new games bud.

Can you please point out a game that comes even close the the quality of acting and direction seen in in SotC?

[QUOTE="Cicatraz_ESP"][QUOTE="goblaa"]

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

goblaa

If you consider Shadow of the Collossus the closest thing to a movie, then you need to watch some new movies or play some new games bud.

Can you please point out a game that comes even close the the quality of acting and direction seen in in SotC?

There was acting in SotC?

I love the game, but mindblowing cutscenes weren't the reason, because they didn't really exist in the game. The ending sequence only had the power it did because of all the gameplay leading up to that point.

[QUOTE="goblaa"][QUOTE="Cicatraz_ESP"][QUOTE="goblaa"]

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

kage_53

If you consider Shadow of the Collossus the closest thing to a movie, then you need to watch some new movies or play some new games bud.

Can you please point out a game that comes even close the the quality of acting and direction seen in in SotC?

Good call. Heavenly sword is pretty close, I'll give you that. I't would need some script clean up and a whole new set of actors to do the voices, but yeah good pick.

[QUOTE="kage_53"][QUOTE="goblaa"][QUOTE="Cicatraz_ESP"][QUOTE="goblaa"]

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

goblaa

If you consider Shadow of the Collossus the closest thing to a movie, then you need to watch some new movies or play some new games bud.

Can you please point out a game that comes even close the the quality of acting and direction seen in in SotC?

Good call. Heavenly sword is pretty close, I'll give you that. I't would need some script clean up and a whole new set of actors to do the voices, but yeah good pick.

how about lost odyssey....well at least some of the characters

[QUOTE="goblaa"][QUOTE="Cicatraz_ESP"][QUOTE="goblaa"]

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

sonicmj1

If you consider Shadow of the Collossus the closest thing to a movie, then you need to watch some new movies or play some new games bud.

Can you please point out a game that comes even close the the quality of acting and direction seen in in SotC?

There was acting in SotC?

I love the game, but mindblowing cutscenes weren't the reason, because they didn't really exist in the game. The ending sequence only had the power it did because of all the gameplay leading up to that point.

Just because people aren't speaking doesn't mean they aren't acting. You get more emotion from the actions of the characters in SotC then you get in almost any spoken dialog in any other game.

[QUOTE="goblaa"][QUOTE="kage_53"][QUOTE="goblaa"][QUOTE="Cicatraz_ESP"][QUOTE="goblaa"]

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

REforever101

If you consider Shadow of the Collossus the closest thing to a movie, then you need to watch some new movies or play some new games bud.

Can you please point out a game that comes even close the the quality of acting and direction seen in in SotC?

Good call. Heavenly sword is pretty close, I'll give you that. I't would need some script clean up and a whole new set of actors to do the voices, but yeah good pick.

how about lost odyssey....well at least some of the characters

No, not even close. Nothing in LO was up to movie standards.

Just because people aren't speaking doesn't mean they aren't acting. You get more emotion from the actions of the characters in SotC then you get in almost any spoken dialog in any other game.

goblaa

Where'd I mention speaking?

The cutscenes do a pretty poor job at communicating emotion. I think you're projecting emotion onto the characters based on your gameplay experience as Wander, rather than actually getting much emotion from those characters. Wander's actions in the end only seem so full of emotion because you've brought him on this enormous, epic quest, and imbued those emotions in him yourself.

I mean, can you tell me what Mono was feeling when she saw Agro at the end? Because I sure as hell couldn't tell from the cutscene.

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

Just because people aren't speaking doesn't mean they aren't acting. You get more emotion from the actions of the characters in SotC then you get in almost any spoken dialog in any other game.

sonicmj1

Where'd I mention speaking?

The cutscenes do a pretty poor job at communicating emotion. I think you're projecting emotion onto the characters based on your gameplay experience as Wander, rather than actually getting much emotion from those characters. Wander's actions in the end only seem so full of emotion because you've brought him on this enormous, epic quest, and imbued those emotions in him yourself.

I mean, can you tell me what Mono was feeling when she saw Agro at the end? Because I sure as hell couldn't tell from the cutscene.

Most likely feeling confusion. She prolly doesn't know where she is. I mean, she has missed the entire story and most likely has never meet wander or agro.

BTW this is obviously another publicity stunt to make people think R* is "badass" so they can sell more copies of GTAIV.Heydanbud92

I kinda agree.

My question is: Why can't there be multiple styles of gaming?

You get all these guys from Epic and Rockstar and such spouting off about how the Wii is a "virus" that also sits and collects dust, how they are superior because they make games with better graphics, blah blah blah.

Then you get all these no-name shovelware devs, and a few bigger names like Hudson, putting out crappy minigame collections and assuming that everyone will be too stupid to realize that their game sucks.

We already know that there are multiple audiences out there that like different types of games. Why does gaming need to follow one path?

[QUOTE="Marth6781"]Eternal darkness, Geist.kage_53

[QUOTE="Heydanbud92"]BTW this is obviously another publicity stunt to make people think R* is "badass" so they can sell more copies of GTAIV.--ProtoMan--

I kinda agree.

My question is: Why can't there be multiple styles of gaming?

You get all these guys from Epic and Rockstar and such spouting off about how the Wii is a "virus" that also sits and collects dust, how they are superior because they make games with better graphics, blah blah blah.

Then you get all these no-name shovelware devs, and a few bigger names like Hudson, putting out crappy minigame collections and assuming that everyone will be too stupid to realize that their game sucks.

We already know that there are multiple audiences out there that like different types of games. Why does gaming need to follow one path?

Admittedly, I'm at fault here for playing up the controversy in this quote somewhat, but Dan doesn't despise what the Wii is doing. In fact, he says in that very interview, "The Wii is doing something totally different, which is fantastic."

I also think that games don't need to follow one path or the other, but that games should pursue both avenues.

BTW this is obviously another publicity stunt to make people think R* is "badass" so they can sell more copies of GTAIV.Heydanbud92

[QUOTE="--ProtoMan--"]

[QUOTE="Heydanbud92"]BTW this is obviously another publicity stunt to make people think R* is "badass" so they can sell more copies of GTAIV.sonicmj1

I kinda agree.

My question is: Why can't there be multiple styles of gaming?

You get all these guys from Epic and Rockstar and such spouting off about how the Wii is a "virus" that also sits and collects dust, how they are superior because they make games with better graphics, blah blah blah.

Then you get all these no-name shovelware devs, and a few bigger names like Hudson, putting out crappy minigame collections and assuming that everyone will be too stupid to realize that their game sucks.

We already know that there are multiple audiences out there that like different types of games. Why does gaming need to follow one path?

Admittedly, I'm at fault here for playing up the controversy in this quote somewhat, but Dan doesn't despise what the Wii is doing. In fact, he says in that very interview, "The Wii is doing something totally different, which is fantastic."

I also think that games don't need to follow one path or the other, but that games should pursue both avenues.

You do have a point.

But in general, I guess this is more about the industry attitude in general--how "hardcore and casual" are always at war with each other.

It's obvious that this SW in general leans towards the "hardcore" mindset. I guess I'm a little different. For example, I just bought MK Wii and decided to hold out a little while on GTAIV. But when I do get GTAIV, I'm sure it will be great. I can also play both SMG and Half-Life 2 and appreciate the genius of both.

These comments here aren't bad at all. But sometimes, the stuff I hear (like from Epic) is very divisive, along the lines of "Yeah, we're all about the REAL gamer. If you're not hard enough for our Gears of War badassery, go play some casual Nintendo crap, you pansy."

To each his own.

[QUOTE="Marth6781"]Eternal darkness, Geist.kage_53

they're both nintendo IPs. Eternal darkness was kinda made by nintendo because it partially owned silicon knights at the time of development and geist is completely made by nintendo.

Rockstar has done an amazing job with GTA 4. I hate Bully, Manhunt sucks, and midnight club sucks as well. but GTA they do well.

GTA 4 is one of the best games I have ever played so far, atleast thats my initial impression of this game.


ANd I agree i want more high end, deeper, and groundbreaking games.

Besides we get a much better story than GTA 4 this year. Metal Gear Solid 4's story>GTA 4 story......I mean come on the franchise known for its great stories is gonna win that one atleast.

good thing gta 4 is neither good or innovative then. i've played it before its called gta3-san andreas and its not as good as those games.WilliamRLBaker

Amen. GTA was groundbreaking back in the PS1 era since then you have not seen Rockstar walk out of there comfort zone. Nintendo has the same kind of comfort zone with titles as of the likes Mario, Zelda, Samus but there is at least some change in game mechanics unlike the GTA franchise which has had no significant change since GTA3. I dont find the plots to be that mature due to the extent of abusive language! Anyone can use offensive language but does it make them mature? Nope. So why should a game be counted mature because of the language. Because a game has drugs, Ho's, weapons, sex and violence dont make it mature! Rockstar are just unable to get out there comfort zone so how they can say anything about another company is quite obsurd. I could say why dont Rockstar create a game which does not revolve around violence,Swearing, weapons which is good! That is beyond there comfort zone though.

Rockstar do not make mature games, They make provocative games.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]good thing gta 4 is neither good or innovative then. i've played it before its called gta3-san andreas and its not as good as those games.Dibdibdobdobo

Amen. GTA was groundbreaking back in the PS1 era since then you have not seen Rockstar walk out of there comfort zone. Nintendo has the same kind of comfort zone with titles as of the likes Mario, Zelda, Samus but there is at least some change in game mechanics unlike the GTA franchise which has had no significant change since GTA3. I dont find the plots to be that mature due to the extent of abusive language! Anyone can use offensive language but does it make them mature? Nope. So why should a game be counted mature because of the language. Because a game has drugs, Ho's, weapons, sex and violence dont make it mature! Rockstar are just unable to get out there comfort zone so how they can say anything about another company is quite obsurd.

I disagree on the bad langue and the story line. GTA IV uses bad languages effectively, unlike say Saint's Row (F' the Nazis this, F' the Nazi that...The mere mention of that just make the hair on the back of my neck stand up on ends. GTA is different, where they uses the F and S bomb, they use it effectively and appropriately so much so, it isn't jarring). The game is the best GTa I've seen but...........and this is coming from a major GTA knucklehead btw.

I TOTALLY agree with you that R* didn't break any new grounds with this game. Sure i think it deserved it's high score (Maybe not a 10, but 9.5 definately) and I definately is having a blast with it, but every once in awhile, while on a mission, something would happen and just jar me right out of my GTA mindset and have me going, "Why does this mission play and feel so similar, why does i have a feeling that I already played this mission before?!?!?" I won't spoil it for you, but there are several mission so far that's just a complete rip-off of previous GTA missions! That kind of thing just totally rip me right out of the game and put a question mark in my brain going, "Well, that sucks! I played this already!"

BTW this is obviously another publicity stunt to make people think R* is "badass" so they can sell more copies of GTAIV.Heydanbud92

RockStar doesn't need anymore publicity. I'm thinking it is just plain arrogance on RockStar's part now.

I prefer both types of games. I like my GTA's as well as my Mario platformers, tennis, golfs and karting too.....What I don't like is people coming in here with an attitude saying, "WAH, MArio is Teh Kiddy-da, It Sux-ga, Me TeH AwsOmEs-Ga, Matur-gA!!!!" That's the prime defination of a fanboy!

But still, this doesn't prove R* will not bring a GTA to the Wii....Far from it....This guy IMO, are just going off to sell GTA IV (as if it needs any help anyways)....I think a GTA:SA Stories is still coming (R* left plenty of story-line open in GTA:SA)...Not on the PSP (SA map is too big for it). PS2 is riding off into the sunset, X360 and PS3 is out of the question, not unless you want GTA IV to slaughter it! The Wii is the prime solution because it's the only thing left and its easy! Just upgrade the SA engine to show off Wii strength (it's not going to be hard), change the story lines and characters and BAM, istant money!