Rockstar's Dan Houser Challenges Nintendo's Vision of Gaming

wow, ANOTHRER developer Wii bashing, i also disagree with nintendos vision, they need to apeal to a more mature audience too. games like wii fit just fill me with hate and disgust because nintendo has so blatently abandoned its long time fnas and traditional audience by putting so many resorces into what is essentially a collection of mini games and a very expecsive set of scales. thegoldenpoo

why the 360 or ps3 is more for core gamer ? its the software the 3rd party put on that system !!!

blame 3rt partys not nintendo.

Both can live in harmony.

/thread

[QUOTE="Cicatraz_ESP"]

Possibly. I just don't see how ANYONE can say SotC has more of a movie feel then freaking GTAIV. It's not just a flawed view, it's plain wrong.

Heydanbud92

Why do you find it so hard to at least let someone else have their own opinion, not to mention try to understand it?

I also think SOTC is one of, if not, THE closest expieriences that videogames have come to a movie ever.

I have no problem at all letting anyone have their own opinion, but that statement just struck me as dumb. Please explain why you feel this way, because I completely disagree. SotC would be a horrible, repetitive movie as is. GTAIV already feels like a movie that you can interact with. I'm sorry I just completely disagree on this subject.

well done for COMPLETELY MISINTERPRETING his statement

heres a cookie:

[QUOTE="Heydanbud92"][QUOTE="Cicatraz_ESP"]

Possibly. I just don't see how ANYONE can say SotC has more of a movie feel then freaking GTAIV. It's not just a flawed view, it's plain wrong.

sonicmj1

Why do you find it so hard to at least let someone else have their own opinion, not to mention try to understand it?

I also think SOTC is one of, if not, THE closest expieriences that videogames have come to a movie ever.

I don't think SotC is very movie-like in the way it goes about things. It'd make a terrible movie, actually. I think it worked because it focused on its strengths as a game, instead of trying to be like a movie. I like what SotC did a lot.

I completely agree. If I were to use an example of a product that could not have achieved what it did in any other form of medium, SOTC would be among those examples.

I can definitely respect other people's opinion, but I have to disagree with the saying that SOTC would have made a great movie... unless of course the setting of the game was dramatically changed. 90% of the game is the sole struggle of the character against the colossus, and that experience is lived and its sucess can only be achieved by us the gamer. I can only imagine the bore such an experience would provide to see a character having to fight against 16 colossus in a row, with very little interesting things going on in between, without anyone playing any part in the experince whatsoever.

Shadow of the Colossus is one of many examples of why some things can only work out in video game form. It proves that this industry like any other, can achieve things differently from any other type of medium, while at the same time having the ability to work, in a rather different way, just as well in those different areas; for example cinematic games. From the angle I'm looking at, SOTC proves that this medium can be very flexible, but like books or movies, it can also do its own thing.

Edited: Sorry that was completely off topic. And considering I already touched his comment in another thread, I don't realy have anything else to say about it.

Shadow of the Colossus is one of many examples of why some things can only work out in video game form. It proves that this industry like any other, can achieve things differently from any other type of medium, while at the same time having the ability to work, in a rather different way, just as well in those different areas; for example cinematic games. From the angle I'm looking at, SOTC proves that this medium can be very flexible, but like books or movies, it can also do its own thing.

StealthSting

Shadow of the Colossus is one of many examples of why some things can only work out in video game form. It proves that this industry like any other, can achieve things differently from any other type of medium, while at the same time having the ability to work, in a rather different way, just as well in those different areas; for example cinematic games. From the angle I'm looking at, SOTC proves that this medium can be very flexible, but like books or movies, it can also do its own thing.

StealthSting

"Yeah, **** all this stuff about casual gaming. I think people still want games that are groundbreaking. The Wii is doing something totally different, which is fantastic. We're hopefully going to prove that there's also a very big audience for people who want entertainment in another form, who think of games as being a narrative device that can challenge movies. We always said: We're not going release a large number of games. They're going to have the production values of movies. They're gonna be about themes that interest us whatever the medium, instead of the weird, special video game-only themes that too many people make - orcs and elves, or monsters, or space. We felt you could make a good game and have it be about something we could actually relate to. Or aspire to."

sonicmj1

Allow me to translate:

"We don't like casual gaming, so **** that ****! Why would we want other people joining OUR community? This is OUR secret club. If you don't know the secret handshake, then get the hell out! People want games that are groundbreaking! Yeah I know, GTA4 isn't groundbreaking at all, but just ignore that. Anyway, we want to have a large budget for our games, you know, now that our company is filthy rich and all. We want to make games that interest US. Sure, we could have made our games about something interesting, like monsters or epic space battles, but instead, we chose to make our games boring and rip off every mobster movie ever made."

[QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

"Yeah, **** all this stuff about casual gaming. I think people still want games that are groundbreaking. The Wii is doing something totally different, which is fantastic. We're hopefully going to prove that there's also a very big audience for people who want entertainment in another form, who think of games as being a narrative device that can challenge movies. We always said: We're not going release a large number of games. They're going to have the production values of movies. They're gonna be about themes that interest us whatever the medium, instead of the weird, special video game-only themes that too many people make - orcs and elves, or monsters, or space. We felt you could make a good game and have it be about something we could actually relate to. Or aspire to."

Tingle-Tuner

Allow me to translate:

"We don't like casual gaming, so **** that ****! Why would we want other people joining OUR community? This is OUR secret club. If you don't know the secret handshake, then get the hell out! People want games that are groundbreaking! Yeah I know, GTA4 isn't groundbreaking at all, but just ignore that. Anyway, we want to have a large budget for our games, you know, now that our company is filthy rich and all. We want to make games that interest US. Sure, we could have made our games about something interesting, like monsters or epic space battles, but instead, we chose to make our games boring and rip off every mobster movie ever made."

terrible translation.

[QUOTE="Tingle-Tuner"][QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

"Yeah, **** all this stuff about casual gaming. I think people still want games that are groundbreaking. The Wii is doing something totally different, which is fantastic. We're hopefully going to prove that there's also a very big audience for people who want entertainment in another form, who think of games as being a narrative device that can challenge movies. We always said: We're not going release a large number of games. They're going to have the production values of movies. They're gonna be about themes that interest us whatever the medium, instead of the weird, special video game-only themes that too many people make - orcs and elves, or monsters, or space. We felt you could make a good game and have it be about something we could actually relate to. Or aspire to."

6matt6

Allow me to translate:

"We don't like casual gaming, so **** that ****! Why would we want other people joining OUR community? This is OUR secret club. If you don't know the secret handshake, then get the hell out! People want games that are groundbreaking! Yeah I know, GTA4 isn't groundbreaking at all, but just ignore that. Anyway, we want to have a large budget for our games, you know, now that our company is filthy rich and all. We want to make games that interest US. Sure, we could have made our games about something interesting, like monsters or epic space battles, but instead, we chose to make our games boring and rip off every mobster movie ever made."

terrible translation.

[QUOTE="Cicatraz_ESP"][QUOTE="goblaa"]

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

goblaa

If you consider Shadow of the Collossus the closest thing to a movie, then you need to watch some new movies or play some new games bud.

Can you please point out a game that comes even close the the quality of acting and direction seen in in SotC?

Are you being serious or is this a joke question?

[QUOTE="Cicatraz_ESP"][QUOTE="goblaa"]

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

AAllxxjjnn

If you consider Shadow of the Collossus the closest thing to a movie, then you need to watch some new movies or play some new games bud.

He is probably one of those kids who thinks he is deep or different for liking that game. Just like the following Donnie Darko has developed.

Shadow of Colossus is a piece of trash. I've played it, and I'm really glad the game sold bad. So SCE won't bother making another one.

There are plenty of games that top movies in terms of story and entertaining. Max Payne, Bioshock, Metal Gear Solid, Elder Scrolls, Final Fantasy and even Grand Theft Auto.

A game doesn't have to be cinematic to have a good story. Half-Life 2 has really well done cinametic gameplay, but I'd say I like the Max Payne story better. Even though the game mostly consists of great composed music combined with ''comic'' strip.

Lets compare the classic Payback from Mel Gibson with Max Payne from Remedy. Both are very good. But as a gamer I'd choose for Max Payne. Even though the game is inspired by the film.

I don't particularly care, they say they like to make grounbreaking games? How. The best game they ever made was Bully IMO. I played GTA4 yesterday and it massively disappointed me, what with all the hype around it, what was I presented with, GTA3 with better graphics, a new aiming system that was done better in the Godfather (on guess what console, yes the Wii!) and supposed awesome physics? Yeah real awesome, shoot near someone with a rocket launcher and they go flying like 300 foot, just like real life! /sarcasm. Sorry but they need to realise that they are actually better at making not so mature games themselves, like Bully, I really enjoyed that game a lot more than the GTA series, and especially Manhunt.bobbetybob

I think Midnight club and manhunt are both better than GTA, at least Manhunt has a little creativity in it. The only reason GTA4 has such great ratings is from hype and the fact that they advertise on every site on the web.

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

goblaa

I don't think they're that far away from the same quality. If they made a game that was 90 mins long, they'd nail it. Show me a film that is 30,40,50 hours long that has the same quality Rockstar puts into a game.

wow, ANOTHRER developer Wii bashing, i also disagree with nintendos vision, they need to apeal to a more mature audience too. games like wii fit just fill me with hate and disgust because nintendo has so blatently abandoned its long time fnas and traditional audience by putting so many resorces into what is essentially a collection of mini games and a very expecsive set of scales. thegoldenpoo

New York Magazine recently had an interview with Vice President of Rockstar Games Dan Houser, who co-wrote GTA4's script. He made a number of comments about his opinions of the current state of the game industry, and how Grand Theft Auto 4 fits into that. I've excerpted a few interesting quotes below:

"Yeah, **** all this stuff about casual gaming. I think people still want games that are groundbreaking. The Wii is doing something totally different, which is fantastic.We're hopefully going to prove that there's also a very big audience for people who want entertainment in another form, who think of games as being a narrative device that can challenge movies. We always said: We're not going release a large number of games. They're going to have the production values of movies. They're gonna be about themes that interest us whatever the medium, instead of the weird, special video game-only themes that too many people make - orcs and elves, or monsters, or space. We felt you could make a good game and have it be about something we could actually relate to. Or aspire to."

sonicmj1

Rockstar never outright bashed Nintendo. :|

i think a lot of people need to realize that its going to be a long, long time before video games become as culturally accepted as movies are. video games arent going to go away any time soon, but its going to remain the odd man out for a while.

it takes a long time for a new form of entertainment to be fully accepted by everyone. just look at rock and roll. You had some people going around saying it was the devils music. I guess you could say that games today are the new r&r. this being why people like jack thompson are kicking up a fuss. He's just like most parents during the 1950s, and his reaction is similar to that of how older folks felt about rock and roll when it first became popular. Eventually, everyone of his generation will die, leaving only those who have grown up with video games. its at that point that they'll become fully accepted as an art form, just like cinema and music

REforever101

Of course it will, if people keep making games that are for a specific audience. Nintendo is making games for a varied audience, so dont you think they are trying to make games more culturally accepted by all these "casual" gamers?

Oh, the horrible irony. A guy whose company makes games that any casual will play (IE GTA) criticizes appealing to casual gamers. Face it, Grand Theft Auto is a casual franchise. It is not hardcore, it is casual.Video_Game_King

In what sense?

It seems to me you're confusing different definitions of casual, unless you really believe that the games that Rockstar is making are targeting the same people that casual games like Buzz!, Wii Sports, and Peggle target.

[QUOTE="Heydanbud92"]BTW this is obviously another publicity stunt to make people think R* is "badass" so they can sell more copies of GTAIV.--ProtoMan--

I kinda agree.

My question is: Why can't there be multiple styles of gaming?

You get all these guys from Epic and Rockstar and such spouting off about how the Wii is a "virus" that also sits and collects dust, how they are superior because they make games with better graphics, blah blah blah.

Then you get all these no-name shovelware devs, and a few bigger names like Hudson, putting out crappy minigame collections and assuming that everyone will be too stupid to realize that their game sucks.

We already know that there are multiple audiences out there that like different types of games. Why does gaming need to follow one path?

Oh, the horrible irony. A guy whose company makes games that any casual will play (IE GTA) criticizes appealing to casual gamers. Face it, Grand Theft Auto is a casual franchise. It is not hardcore, it is casual.Video_Game_King

this statement is somewhat true. GTA is very "pick-up-and-play."

Surprised nobody mentioned Indigo Prophecy. Playing that game was basicly playing a movie.AT1JOHNSON

That game rocks. It was like an interactive movie.

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

goblaa

:lol:

GTA is much more like a movie than SoTC

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

Juggernaut140

:lol:

GTA is much more like a movie than SoTC

He was talking about cinematic gameplay, not cutscenes.

- Virgil A. Kraft

- Ursula K. Le Guin (1929 - )

"Maturity begins when we're content to feel we're right about something without feeling the necessity to prove someone else wrong."

- Sydney J. Harris (1917 - 1986)

I get the impression that rockstar doesn't like nintendo, specifically rockstar north. Maybe there was some bad blood after body harvest??

i dont think hes challenging anyone. first he says that what ninty are doing with the wii is fantastic and totally different. secondly all hes describing is games he wants to make and play...and he doesent like casual games. fair enough.

is there room for both? absolutely. i love high production games but i also like games like peggle, and endless ocean and puzzle quest among others. the gaming world would be a lesser place if one or ther other was to go.

Jesus, the amount of outright stupidity in this thread is mind boggling.

He didn't even say his vision for gaming was the 'only true path' he didn't bash Nintendo at all. Can you guys even read?

Jesus, the amount of outright stupidity in this thread is mind boggling.

He didn't even say his vision for gaming was the 'only true path' he didn't bash Nintendo at all. Can you guys even read?

z_gaming_master

Yea a lot of people just read a couple lines and went to bashing R*.

With regarding the article, I'd have to agree there is not just one path to making video games. What Nintendo is doing is great, games like SMG, MP, and etc., all find ways to give you a different expierence then other great like GTA 4 or SoTC give as well. That is the reason I love this medium so much, since there is enough room to experiment in capturing the attention of such a wide and diverse audience

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

goblaa

SotC is something that is unique to the medium. It woudn't really work as a film, nor does it come close to rivaling the sort of directstorytelling that films do so well.

And yeah, you are wrong about GTA IV. In terms of cinematography, writing, and production values, GTA IV is right up there with some of the great crime films, and its definitely much better than alot of the films that come out today and deal with the same subject matter.

Why should Rockstar get over themselves? They are some of the greatest devs of all time, responsible for an incredible revolution in not only an entire genre, but pretty much the industry a whole. They also make incredible games that sell ridiculous amounts of units.

What Houser is pointing out is that GTA IV has mass appeal without sacrificing the challenging gameplay (GTA IV has kicked my ass on several occassions). And if anyone is in a position to talk about stuff like that, it's Rockstar.

R* needs to get over themselves. They make great amazing high production games, that's for sure. But, they are faaaaaaaar from a movie's quality. Infact, almost every game ever made is faaaaaar from movie quality except for Shadow of the Colossus. (And no, I'm not even thinking about visuals.)

Also, if R* is so against casual gaming, why did they make table tennis?

goblaa

GTA4's plot is better than most of the **** playing at the theater today.

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]Oh, the horrible irony. A guy whose company makes games that any casual will play (IE GTA) criticizes appealing to casual gamers. Face it, Grand Theft Auto is a casual franchise. It is not hardcore, it is casual.sonicmj1

In what sense?

It seems to me you're confusing different definitions of casual, unless you really believe that the games that Rockstar is making are targeting the same people that casual games like Buzz!, Wii Sports, and Peggle target.

Xbox Live Halo Teens are casuals. They are not gamers like us. Tons of casual people play GTA. They may not target casual gamers, but that's who they hit.

Here we go. You ready? You all ready for this unshakable axiom which I am laying upon you today?

Here goes:

Gameplay is, was and always will be more important than the storyline which is conveyed through it in a video game.

If not, We can effectively call them semi-interactive movies. A game is meant to be fun over all else, and sometimes sacrifice that fun for a story AHRRRHM Mass Effect HRMMMMRMHM.

Mario is considered the best game ever by IGN because, and this is a loose quote, "It is the purest videogaming experience you will ever have in your life." Not because it conveyed some epic branching quest that involved political intrigue and complex characters. Hell, even Halo proves this, even though Halo is sorta "meh" to alot of people in the gameplay department.

Play a game to have fun. The story should enhance the gameplay, not the other way around. Think different and you need to reassess your priorities, and maybe consider books a good alternative.

Here we go. You ready? You all ready for this unshakable axiom which I am laying upon you today?

Here goes:

Gameplay is, was and always will be more important than the storyline which is conveyed through it in a video game.

If not, We can effectively call them semi-interactive movies. A game is meant to be fun over all else, and sometimes sacrifice that fun for a story AHRRRHM Mass Effect HRMMMMRMHM.

Mario is considered the best game ever by IGN because, and this is a loose quote, "It is the purest videogaming experience you will ever have in your life." Not because it conveyed some epic branching quest that involved political intrigue and complex characters. Hell, even Halo proves this, even though Halo is sorta "meh" to alot of people in the gameplay department.

Play a game to have fun. The story should enhance the gameplay, not the other way around. Think different and you need to reassess your priorities, and maybe consider books a good alternative.

Arkthemaniac

By that logic GTA is better than any Nintendo game,because Nintendo games have nonexistant plots,but excellent gameplay,while GTA4 has an excellent plot,and excellent gameplay.

[QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]Oh, the horrible irony. A guy whose company makes games that any casual will play (IE GTA) criticizes appealing to casual gamers. Face it, Grand Theft Auto is a casual franchise. It is not hardcore, it is casual.Video_Game_King

In what sense?

It seems to me you're confusing different definitions of casual, unless you really believe that the games that Rockstar is making are targeting the same people that casual games like Buzz!, Wii Sports, and Peggle target.

Xbox Live Halo Teens are casuals. They are not gamers like us. Tons of casual people play GTA. They may not target casual gamers, but that's who they hit.

Dan Houser is not referring to "Xbox Live Halo Teens" when he says, "**** casual gaming."

But why is this 'Us vs. Them'? They play games, don't they? So why aren't they gamers?