SC: Conviction producer trashes the ps3

[QUOTE="hotdaisy18"][QUOTE="3picuri3"]

[QUOTE="BlueBarad"]Hummm...what does he know? Kojima will prove everybody wrong. Just Wait.3picuri3

you're joking right? the MGS series has NEVER been known for great AI, if anything the bad AI is part of the camp appeal the game has. just watch the Kojima walkthrough -- I'm sorry, but if a guard 3 feet away from me doesn't notice the human-body-shaped lump on the floor with a tile pattern on it's back then something is amiss :) or how about a moving barrel? as if a guard wouldn't remember that 'hey, there wasn't a barrel here 10 seconds ago'...

someone might prove that the PS3 can do good AI, but it sure as hell won't be Kojima - I think he'd be the first to admit that AI has never been his bag.

Which just proves, you've never played a MGS game on European Extreme ;) Sucks for you. You're missing out on a great franchise.

i've played all and finished all, but not on the hardest difficulty. if i have to do that to experience AI that isn't mentally deficient , always walking over the same patterns without deviations, not noticing obviously terrible hide-and-go-seek stealth movement (boxes moving, being in plain sight and not noticed, barrel moving, extremely obvious 'camo' suits) -- then I'm sorry, I don't think I'm missing out. I have a pretty good idea of what the game has to offer after beating it on normal.

anyone that wants to claim MGS series has good/great enemy AI seriously hasn't ever played a game that actually does have good AI.

Three glowing lights on his goggles aren't going to get noticed:roll:

And if he developed for the PS3 he'd say the same about the 360.

The cows won't be able to grab each others balls in SC so they aren't interested. LOLZ. More proof the 360 is the most powerful gamingconsole on the market.JiveT

and thats why when they said mgs4 might go to 360 all the lemmings were disowning sc right

[QUOTE="Finale-"]Lol Splinter Cell. ImagineGamer

that's not a trash. that was the advantage expected with MS having 3 CPUs in their console. one could be dedicated entirely to AI...one to sound...one to video (or however they want to break it out). PS3 only has one CPU and a bunch of limited but powerful SPEs.

PS3 will show advantages in other areas thanks to its design approach. 360 will have its.

[QUOTE="A-LEGEND"]What do i think? I think that its about goddamn time for children to accept that the 360is probablyactually the better console. Thats whatthe hell i think. And i think they should also come to terms with Mutiplatform devs >>>> exclussive ones when talking about technical capabilities of a console.Redfingers

Apparently you have amnesia. SC:C devs are, in fact, exclusive developers. They are not comparing seperate builds of the game, they simply, arbitrarily, stated that the game will not be coming to Playstation 3 because it is less capable in terms of AI. With no substantial backing. Allegedly, they said this.

and apparently you didnt understand that i meant ubisoft in general. not only for that game.

Three glowing lights on his goggles aren't going to get noticed:roll:

Solid_Link22

please refresh my mind: when the hell did I mention SC? both are a joke in terms of AI in my mind, I'm not being a fanboy and just trying to beat down MGS. both series are rich in flaws. my main point was that someone shouldn't use MGS series as an argument for AI, the same would apply to SC in my books --- but to be fair the new SC is changing a lot of things, I'll wait until both come out for my final verdict. but to this point in time both SC and MGS are weak in terms of enemy AI, and the occasional friendly AI.

[QUOTE="Solid_Link22"]

Three glowing lights on his goggles aren't going to get noticed:roll:

3picuri3

please refresh my mind: when the hell did I mention SC? both are a joke in terms of AI in my mind, I'm not being a fanboy and just trying to beat down MGS. both series are rich in flaws. my main point was that someone shouldn't use MGS series as an argument for AI, the same would apply to SC in my books --- but to be fair the new SC is changing a lot of things, I'll wait until both come out for my final verdict. but to this point in time both SC and MGS are weak in terms of enemy AI, and the occasional friendly AI.

[QUOTE="3picuri3"]

[QUOTE="Solid_Link22"]

Three glowing lights on his goggles aren't going to get noticed:roll:

ragrdoll21

please refresh my mind: when the hell did I mention SC? both are a joke in terms of AI in my mind, I'm not being a fanboy and just trying to beat down MGS. both series are rich in flaws. my main point was that someone shouldn't use MGS series as an argument for AI, the same would apply to SC in my books --- but to be fair the new SC is changing a lot of things, I'll wait until both come out for my final verdict. but to this point in time both SC and MGS are weak in terms of enemy AI, and the occasional friendly AI.

um - they can in SC too.... different ground makes different sounds / has different chances of alerting a guard. don't believe me then fire up a game and try walking fast or running to an enemies back :) i think that's a pretty basic AI feature in games these days :D

To tell you the truth, I'm getting tired of all these developers trashing various platforms. sonicare

He didn't trash the PS3, sorry.

"and he candidly told us how the PS3 can't handle AI nearly as well as the 360."

Well, you know, Kojima did say Octo-Cam was only possible on the PS3.

I'm not sure SC: D devs necessarily have an agenda, they're obviously not willing to place their games on other platforms. If we see it on PC in a year I'm pretty sure we'll have concrete evidence of their intentions. However, I'm just not sure they actually said it A) and I'm not sure they really know any better B).

I would like a very specific explanation in technical terms why the Playstation 3 is less capable than the Xbox 360 in terms of AI. Specifically, I'm interested in this because all prior knowledge and developer comments suggest the Playstation 3 has a more than capable CPU that is more powerful than the competition.

Redfingers

[QUOTE="3picuri3"]

[QUOTE="Solid_Link22"]

Three glowing lights on his goggles aren't going to get noticed:roll:

ragrdoll21

please refresh my mind: when the hell did I mention SC? both are a joke in terms of AI in my mind, I'm not being a fanboy and just trying to beat down MGS. both series are rich in flaws. my main point was that someone shouldn't use MGS series as an argument for AI, the same would apply to SC in my books --- but to be fair the new SC is changing a lot of things, I'll wait until both come out for my final verdict. but to this point in time both SC and MGS are weak in terms of enemy AI, and the occasional friendly AI.

I think you missed the sound meter that was added in Chaos Theory. You can't be louder than the other sounds in the environment.

Well, you know, Kojima did say Octo-Cam was only possible on the PS3.

I'm not sure SC: D devs necessarily have an agenda, they're obviously not willing to place their games on other platforms. If we see it on PC in a year I'm pretty sure we'll have concrete evidence of their intentions. However, I'm just not sure they actually said it A) and I'm not sure they really know any better B).

I would like a very specific explanation in technical terms why the Playstation 3 is less capable than the Xbox 360 in terms of AI. Specifically, I'm interested in this because all prior knowledge and developer comments suggest the Playstation 3 has a more than capable CPU that is more powerful than the competition.

Redfingers

Did you need a very specific explanation when Kojima said octo-cam was only possible on the PS3 ?

:lol:

I've always liked Splinter Cell and MGS. I just don't get why people have to argue. If you don't like something doesn't mean it sucks. Just personal preferences.

Sir-Marwin105

[QUOTE="ragrdoll21"][QUOTE="3picuri3"]

[QUOTE="Solid_Link22"]

Three glowing lights on his goggles aren't going to get noticed:roll:

3picuri3

please refresh my mind: when the hell did I mention SC? both are a joke in terms of AI in my mind, I'm not being a fanboy and just trying to beat down MGS. both series are rich in flaws. my main point was that someone shouldn't use MGS series as an argument for AI, the same would apply to SC in my books --- but to be fair the new SC is changing a lot of things, I'll wait until both come out for my final verdict. but to this point in time both SC and MGS are weak in terms of enemy AI, and the occasional friendly AI.

um - they can in SC too.... different ground makes different sounds / has different chances of alerting a guard. don't believe me then fire up a game and try walking fast or running to an enemies back :) i think that's a pretty basic AI feature in games these days :D

[QUOTE="ragrdoll21"][QUOTE="3picuri3"]

[QUOTE="Solid_Link22"]

Three glowing lights on his goggles aren't going to get noticed:roll:

Vyse_The_Daring

please refresh my mind: when the hell did I mention SC? both are a joke in terms of AI in my mind, I'm not being a fanboy and just trying to beat down MGS. both series are rich in flaws. my main point was that someone shouldn't use MGS series as an argument for AI, the same would apply to SC in my books --- but to be fair the new SC is changing a lot of things, I'll wait until both come out for my final verdict. but to this point in time both SC and MGS are weak in terms of enemy AI, and the occasional friendly AI.

I think you missed the sound meter that was added in Chaos Theory. You can't be louder than the other sounds in the environment.

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"][QUOTE="ragrdoll21"][QUOTE="3picuri3"]

[QUOTE="Solid_Link22"]

Three glowing lights on his goggles aren't going to get noticed:roll:

ragrdoll21

please refresh my mind: when the hell did I mention SC? both are a joke in terms of AI in my mind, I'm not being a fanboy and just trying to beat down MGS. both series are rich in flaws. my main point was that someone shouldn't use MGS series as an argument for AI, the same would apply to SC in my books --- but to be fair the new SC is changing a lot of things, I'll wait until both come out for my final verdict. but to this point in time both SC and MGS are weak in terms of enemy AI, and the occasional friendly AI.

I think you missed the sound meter that was added in Chaos Theory. You can't be louder than the other sounds in the environment.

Chaos Theory came out before Double Agent, so if you played the other SCs up to Double Agent you should've known. I've never played DA because Montreal>>>Shanghai and I only buy the Ubi Montreal games, so I guess it's possible they messed it up.

[QUOTE="hotdaisy18"][QUOTE="3picuri3"]

[QUOTE="BlueBarad"]Hummm...what does he know? Kojima will prove everybody wrong. Just Wait.3picuri3

you're joking right? the MGS series has NEVER been known for great AI, if anything the bad AI is part of the camp appeal the game has. just watch the Kojima walkthrough -- I'm sorry, but if a guard 3 feet away from me doesn't notice the human-body-shaped lump on the floor with a tile pattern on it's back then something is amiss :) or how about a moving barrel? as if a guard wouldn't remember that 'hey, there wasn't a barrel here 10 seconds ago'...

someone might prove that the PS3 can do good AI, but it sure as hell won't be Kojima - I think he'd be the first to admit that AI has never been his bag.

Which just proves, you've never played a MGS game on European Extreme ;) Sucks for you. You're missing out on a great franchise.

i've played all and finished all, but not on the hardest difficulty. if i have to do that to experience AI that isn't mentally deficient , always walking over the same patterns without deviations, not noticing obviously terrible hide-and-go-seek stealth movement (boxes moving, being in plain sight and not noticed, barrel moving, extremely obvious 'camo' suits) -- then I'm sorry, I don't think I'm missing out. I have a pretty good idea of what the game has to offer after beating it on normal.

anyone that wants to claim MGS series has good/great enemy AI seriously hasn't ever played a game that actually does have good AI.

And all of those things are possible in SC?

Get the **** outta here. SC has horrible AI, Hell you can kill one gard's buddy standing right beside him and he woulnd't even flench. You show how much of a fanatic you are by trying to point out every littlethingin MGS you can, when those things you mentionedaren't even remotely possible on a game you are trying to defend.

If there is one thing that's done in SC, MGS dose it 10 times better with interaction that's ten times deeper. You talk about prepeting patters EVERY enemy in SC reacts exactly the same.

pff goes to show you lemmings will hype any trash thats on your system as long as it's exclusive. The things you say don't even makes sence to someone who's played both serise. SC is trash compaired to MGS in everything except textures. PERIOD.

[QUOTE="ImagineGamer"][QUOTE="Finale-"]Lol Splinter Cell. Finale-

I doubt anyone wants to play the poor man's MGS, sorry. :(

Poor man's doesn't really fit when they're both standard retail price games, does it. :|

And MGS is nothing like splinter cell. Honesly, dont bash games you haven't played. Sheesh.

And all of those things are possible in SC?

Get the **** outta here. SC has horrible AI, Hell you can kill one gard's buddy standing right beside him and he woulnd't even flench. You show how much of a fanatic you are by trying to point out every littlethingin MGS you can, when those things you mentionedaren't even remotely possible on a game you are trying to defend.

If there is one thing that's done in SC, MGS dose it 10 times better with interaction that's ten times deeper. You talk about prepeting patters EVERY enemy in SC reacts exactly the same.

pff goes to show you lemmings will hype any trash thats on your system as long as it's exclusive. The things you say don't even makes sence to someone who's played both serise. SC is trash compaired to MGS in everything except textures. PERIOD.

proof11102

Splinter Cell is a really brilliant game. And since Chaos Theory, the AI has been top notch. You cannot by any means shoot a guy standing next to another NPC and have him do nothing.

I find it ironic that you call other people fanboys then say Splinter Cell is trash.

[QUOTE="ragrdoll21"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"][QUOTE="ragrdoll21"][QUOTE="3picuri3"]

[QUOTE="Solid_Link22"]

Three glowing lights on his goggles aren't going to get noticed:roll:

Vyse_The_Daring

please refresh my mind: when the hell did I mention SC? both are a joke in terms of AI in my mind, I'm not being a fanboy and just trying to beat down MGS. both series are rich in flaws. my main point was that someone shouldn't use MGS series as an argument for AI, the same would apply to SC in my books --- but to be fair the new SC is changing a lot of things, I'll wait until both come out for my final verdict. but to this point in time both SC and MGS are weak in terms of enemy AI, and the occasional friendly AI.

I think you missed the sound meter that was added in Chaos Theory. You can't be louder than the other sounds in the environment.

Chaos Theory came out before Double Agent, so if you played the other SCs up to Double Agent you should've known. I've never played DA because Montreal>>>Shanghai and I only buy the Ubi Montreal games, so I guess it's possible they messed it up.

[QUOTE="proof11102"]

And all of those things are possible in SC?

Get the **** outta here. SC has horrible AI, Hell you can kill one gard's buddy standing right beside him and he woulnd't even flench. You show how much of a fanatic you are by trying to point out every littlethingin MGS you can, when those things you mentionedaren't even remotely possible on a game you are trying to defend.

If there is one thing that's done in SC, MGS dose it 10 times better with interaction that's ten times deeper. You talk about prepeting patters EVERY enemy in SC reacts exactly the same.

pff goes to show you lemmings will hype any trash thats on your system as long as it's exclusive. The things you say don't even makes sence to someone who's played both serise. SC is trash compaired to MGS in everything except textures. PERIOD.

Ninja-Vox

Splinter Cell is a really brilliant game. And since Chaos Theory, the AI has been top notch. You cannot by any means shoot a guy standing next to another NPC and have him do nothing.

I find it ironic that you call other people fanboys then say Splinter Cell is trash.

Isn't this the same guy who said Naruto can't be done on PS3?espoac

As far as I remember Ubisoft said that it wasn't for technical reasons.

Lol Splinter Cell. Finale-

Isn't this the same guy who said Naruto can't be done on PS3?:lol: MS is probably paying Ubisoft for the exclusitivity, so what do you expect him to say?espoac

lmao :lol: NARUTO???!?!?!?! ubisoft went to go so far saying naruto cant be dont on ps3. :lol: thats sad..... namco bandai should slap ubisoft

[QUOTE="espoac"]Isn't this the same guy who said Naruto can't be done on PS3?Forza_2

As far as I remember Ubisoft said that it wasn't for technical reasons.

I thought they said that the textures could only be done on the 360....

and MGS4, which it seems to be a far better game (a very far better game) is for the ps3Giancar

He may be right when it comes to AI, game control and Physics:

At any rate, Playstation 3 fanboys shouldn't get all flush over the idea that the Xenon will struggle on non-graphics code. However bad off Xenon will be in that department, the PS3's Cell will probably be worse. The Cell has only one PPE to the Xenon's three, which means that developers will have to cram all their game control, AI, and physics code into at most two threads that are sharing a very narrow execution core with no instruction window. (Don't bother suggesting that the PS3 can use its SPEs for branch-intensive code, because the SPEs lack branch prediction entirely.) Furthermore, the PS3's L2 is only 512K, which is half the size of the Xenon's L2. So the PS3 doesn't get much help with branches in the cache department. In short, the PS3 may fare a bit worse than the Xenon on non-graphics code, but on the upside it will probably fare a bit better on graphics code because of the seven SPEs.Jon Stokes

http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/xbox360-2.ars/7

AI has nothing to do with the "power" of a console, it's all about the programming, bad programming= bad AI.

If the person who is programming the AI is stupid then the chances are the AI will be stupid too.

Resistance had AMAZING AI, they took cover when possible and always flanked you.

Factor 5 developer says Lair will never come out on 360 because 360's CPU can't take it.

Scarletred

Oh NO!!!! another flop of a game that Sony exclusive developers claim can only be done on PS3. ha ha they can keep there floptastic games. PS3 has show us nothing! period. Well that is if you are not a huge blue ray movie fan.

He may be right when it comes to AI, game control and Physics:

[quote="Jon Stokes"]At any rate, Playstation 3 fanboys shouldn't get all flush over the idea that the Xenon will struggle on non-graphics code. However bad off Xenon will be in that department, the PS3's Cell will probably be worse. The Cell has only one PPE to the Xenon's three, which means that developers will have to cram all their game control, AI, and physics code into at most two threads that are sharing a very narrow execution core with no instruction window. (Don't bother suggesting that the PS3 can use its SPEs for branch-intensive code, because the SPEs lack branch prediction entirely.) Furthermore, the PS3's L2 is only 512K, which is half the size of the Xenon's L2. So the PS3 doesn't get much help with branches in the cache department. In short, the PS3 may fare a bit worse than the Xenon on non-graphics code, but on the upside it will probably fare a bit better on graphics code because of the seven SPEs.Pro_wrestler

http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/xbox360-2.ars/7

That article is obsolete. the new kit details say that the SPu can be used for AI.

[QUOTE="Scarletred"]

Factor 5 developer says Lair will never come out on 360 because 360's CPU can't take it.

Nugtoka

Oh NO!!!! another flop of a game that Sony exclusive developers claim can only be done on PS3. ha ha they can keep there floptastic games. PS3 has show us nothing! period. Well that is if you are not a huge blue ray movie fan.

it's a flop? i wasn't aware of that seeing as how it hasn't come out yet. Keep your fanboy remarks to yourself. It just makes you look stupid. that is...unless you like looking stupid.

The cows won't be able to grab each others balls in SC so they aren't interested. LOLZ. More proof the 360 is the most powerful gamingconsole on the market.JiveT

Oh and on topic, this "dev's" word holds as much merit as Factor 5 devs stating the 360 can't handle Lair in its current form. It's just PR talk to hype a game, the same way every other developer is doing nowadays.

Oh and on topic, this "dev's" word holds as much merit as Factor 5 devs stating the 360 can't handle Lair in its current form. It's just PR talk to hype a game, the same way every other developer is doing nowadays.

SergeantSnitch

It is technically true that the 360 can't handle Lair as it is. Because they take advantage of the Blu-ray which the 360 doesn't have.

[QUOTE="JiveT"]The cows won't be able to grab each others balls in SC so they aren't interested. LOLZ. More proof the 360 is the most powerful gamingconsole on the market.SergeantSnitch

Oh and on topic, this "dev's" word holds as much merit as Factor 5 devs stating the 360 can't handle Lair in its current form. It's just PR talk to hype a game, the same way every other developer is doing nowadays.

The difference is Sony is publishing LAIR and since Factor 5 not a large development house they need that to happen and would say whatever Sony told them to say. It's the only game they have in production. Ubisoft is completely 3rd party and doesn't need MS for anything. They are publishing SC: Conviction themselves.

[QUOTE="Nugtoka"][QUOTE="Scarletred"]

Factor 5 developer says Lair will never come out on 360 because 360's CPU can't take it.

Scarletred

Oh NO!!!! another flop of a game that Sony exclusive developers claim can only be done on PS3. ha ha they can keep there floptastic games. PS3 has show us nothing! period. Well that is if you are not a huge blue ray movie fan.

it's a flop? i wasn't aware of that seeing as how it hasn't come out yet. Keep your fanboy remarks to yourself. It just makes you look stupid. that is...unless you like looking stupid.

Considering I'm basing my opinion on the early impressions and reviews made by people playing a very close to finished gameI'd say i've made an educated guess. So lets not call people fanboys just because you don't like what they say....... unless you like looking stupid.

[QUOTE="BlueBarad"]Hummm...what does he know? Kojima will prove everybody wrong. Just Wait.3picuri3

you're joking right? the MGS series has NEVER been known for great AI, if anything the bad AI is part of the camp appeal the game has. just watch the Kojima walkthrough -- I'm sorry, but if a guard 3 feet away from me doesn't notice the human-body-shaped lump on the floor with a tile pattern on it's back then something is amiss :) or how about a moving barrel? as if a guard wouldn't remember that 'hey, there wasn't a barrel here 10 seconds ago'...

someone might prove that the PS3 can do good AI, but it sure as hell won't be Kojima - I think he'd be the first to admit that AI has never been his bag.

And regarding your point. MGS excells at AI.

*Loud noises easily give away your location
* Enemies call backup as soon as they spot you
* Once the enemies they will chase after you until you are completely out of sight like jumping into the waterin the beginning of MGS1.
* Enemies mainly in boss battles can dodge bullets with ease
* Throws get innefictive especially when fighting against the boss in MGS3. She will reverseitjust about every timeand if you have a gunshe will dismantle it, scatterit and ammo boxes around the field.

These are just some examples. And by the looks of things you haven't even played the game on Extreme Mode.Did you also stop and think the MGS4 demo's AI setting was on Easy mode so Kojima can get through it and explaining some of the things in a shorter amount of time.