SCE Executive: 'PS4 May Not Have Better Graphics Than The PS3'

ouch next gen might just be a fail on all 3 consoles then

And suddenly millions of forum go'ers think they can make better business decisions than that all at once.

[QUOTE="Tezcatlipoca666"]

[QUOTE="-Unreal-"] Current high end GPUs and CPUs put off a lot of heat compared to Xbox360 and PS3 hardware and even those have had a lot of trouble being cooled effectively.Xtasy26

True. Even my mid-range HD 6850 has more cooling than a PS3 or X360 has for all components.

That being said cooling can be done efficiently. I mean, there are laptops out there with HD 5870's or better GPU's! They could pull it off. Unfortunately most people just shove their console into a shelf/cabinet or whatever which effectively cooks the console. Many many 360s fell victim to this.

True my BIOS flashed XFX HD 6950 to HD HD 6970 has a massive cooling fan on it. I was surprised how large and heavy this gaming GPU was. I guess it takes this big of a cooling fan/heatsink to keep a massive gaming GPU like the HD 6970, along with all the capacitors and other components in my XFX HD 6970 to keep it cool.

Which GPU do you have ? :P

they should at least be able to match a high end pc from 2006-08 in performance. thats all i ask for the new consoles.

And suddenly millions of forum go'ers think they can make better business decisions than that all at once.

darth-pyschosis

lmao...if true. So who's ready for Kinect 2.0?

um the wii u is going to be more powerful then ps3 which means . more powerful then ps4 if this is true so bit your self on that statment ,

u only saw gameplay footage from 360 versions of those games at e3 so ya, have fun , playing a last gen console like wii did in 2006 , while you guys did the bashing , oh and this wont be the first time for sony either on delivering last gen or less tech

--ps1 any body ,

except ps4 dont have spyro nfs crash rugrats or other key exclusives they have lost to back it up lol

big difference from the wii and ps4 wii had exclusives to back it up , since sony likes aiming for the core , , and not everybody ,

their plan will not work like it had for nintendo remember wii had games for just about any body ,

so did ps1 and ps2 , ps4 will most likely just see less graphical ports of wii u and 720 and 360 ps3 titles lol or even vita titles

[QUOTE="Jynxzor"]

Sony SPAIN: We have no idea what the main branch will actually do...so I'll just say something random.

rybe1025

Everyone jumping the gun here.

Just wait.

I dont think Sony will make a mega supah dupah jump in hardware, but im sure they will have something with sizeble performance with at most 5x the performance of current consoles.

[QUOTE="TheGrat1"]

:lol: This guy makes no decisions whatsoever and is probably the last person in the chain of command to get the real info. In essence: ignore him. If the PS4 isn't significantly more powerful than the PS3, i'll eat my monitor.

Arach666

I hope your monitor is tasty.

I'm good.

Is it just me or have all the 3 major companies lost their damn minds?todd2r

no.

they are finally getting smart and with the times.

%40 of US gamers are female.

The bigger gaming demographic are casual

There is a huge pool of people who are not or can't get into gaming, bigger then the core gamers for all consoles who can see this as an entry into Video Games.

Graphics may woo a croud intially but it's the gameplay that will make them stay.

Gaming is no longer for nerds, socailly inept, elitists(or who think they are elite) 15-23 demographic. and is certainly no longer the domain of fanboys.

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="-Unreal-"]

I get the feeling they're having trouble cooling hardware in a console-sized case.

-Unreal-

AMD Radeon 5870M has 50 watts TDP i.e. lower than the current XCGPU.

development cost is going to be a big deal next gen. you shouldnt expect much of a improvement over graphics next gen. i mean devs are struggling now with developing games for this gen. look at all the devs that went out of business this gen cause of hd gen. Rahnyc4

They'll probably migrate to mobile gaming and increase it's footprint in the whole gaming industry...

:shock: oops! I'm sorry. That's like a swear word in SW. M*^ G**ing or soon to be banned.:lol:

they should at least be able to match a high end pc from 2006-08 in performance. thats all i ask for the new consoles.

rasengan2552

just get a high end gaming PC from 2006.

Problem solved.

PS4.

$800 Dorrrrrrroooooooooooorrrrrrrs!!!!!!:D

you guysready for next gen yet?

Sony can easily launch holiday 2012 with a GTX 485Mobile 28nm/65Watt.

GTX 485M is 5-6 times faster than PS360.

Example:

That would make a Xbox-xbox360 jump.

And can run Crysis warhead with very high settings 1080p/2AA 25-30 fps on a laptop.

Sony can easily launch holiday 2012 with a GTX 485Mobile 28nm/65Watt.

GTX 485M is 5-6 times faster than PS360.

Example:

FIFA 11 1920x1080high, 2xAA, 8xAF175.6 fps

That would make a Xbox-xbox360 jump.

And can run Crysis warhead with very high settings 1080p/2AA 25-30 fps on a laptop.

Com64-2

Lol at NVIDIA's large GPU cores....

100 Watts for the current 40 nm Geforce GTX 485M(GF104). http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-485M.42883.0.html

40nm Geforce GTX 485M's die size is 332 mm^2. 28nm version has 232.4 mm^2 die size .

For reference, Xbox 360's slim's XCGPU APU has a die size of 169 mm^2. 28nm version GTX 485M'sbill of materials still higher than Xbox 360 Slim.

---

Radeon HD 6870 at 40nm has die size of 255 mm^2. 28nm version has 178.5mm^2 die size.

AMD Llano APU (Quad Core K10.5 "Stars"+ Radeon HD 6620M(400 stream processors)) has 220mm^2 die size with 32nm. 28nm version has 192.5 mm^2 die size.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"]

MS hasn't put there full focus on any one thing. Thats what makes them so great. They focus on everyone, whether you want a social, core, casual or other types of entertainment MS has it all.

If anything Sony stopped focusing on what it dis best, PS3 a damn shooter console now.Desmonic

While I admite some Halo would be very welcome, CoD is multiplatform...so I don't quite get what you meant by that :P

Besides our top sellin games aren't just shooters! GT5, LBP, Infamous, Motorstorm are just a few I can name form the top of my head :P We also have MGS4 which can be played without shooting a bullet, but I'll consider it a shooter.. so yeah? Shooter console? Not so much my friend :P

This is not even in the ballpark of being true.

[QUOTE="AdmiralBison"]

PS4.

$800 Dorrrrrrroooooooooooorrrrrrrs!!!!!!:D

you guysready for next gen yet?

getyeryayasout

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"][QUOTE="1stPlaceWinner"]

no you can stealth too, and platforming, and the fact that every site classifies it as an action adv

1stPlaceWinner

not sure if its the vast majority, is there any links to all this?

Anybody who has played Uncharted 1/2 knows that shooting makes up most of the game. 90% is probably an overstatement, but the game is far more of a shooter than it is a platformer or anything else.

[QUOTE="Com64-2"]

Sony can easily launch holiday 2012 with a GTX 485Mobile 28nm/65Watt.

GTX 485M is 5-6 times faster than PS360.

Example:

FIFA 11 1920x1080high, 2xAA, 8xAF175.6 fps

That would make a Xbox-xbox360 jump.

And can run Crysis warhead with very high settings 1080p/2AA 25-30 fps on a laptop.

ronvalencia

Lol at NVIDIA's large GPU cores....

100 Watts for the current 40 nm Geforce GTX 485M(GF104). http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-485M.42883.0.html

40nm Geforce GTX 485M's die size is 332 mm^2. 28nm version has 232.4 mm^2 die size .

For reference, Xbox 360's slim's XCGPU APU has a die size of 169 mm^2. 28nm version GTX 485M'sbill of materials still higher than Xbox 360 Slim.

---

Radeon HD 6870 at 40nm has die size of 255 mm^2. 28nm version has 178.5mm^2 die size.

AMD Llano APU (Quad Core K10.5 "Stars"+ Radeon HD 6620M(400 stream processors))has 220mm^2 die size.

Yes GTX 485M have a higher diesize than a slim x360.

But the original90nm RSX die size - 258 mm^2

original 90nm Xenos (x360 gpu) die size - 232 mm^2

PS4 can launch with 28NM GTX485M and have a die size of 232.4 mm^2 thats same as original Phat Xbox 360 gpu size and is less than original phat ps3 RSX. And PS4 can have same Total Thermal output as the launch PS3 unit if theyget a decent CPU for it.

PS4 slim will come later my freind with smaller gpu die size.

oh and the HD6870 is a 170watt gpu even if diedize issmaller and the Llano is not that powerfull with6620 gpu.

And the HD5870M/HD6970M TDP 50/70watt are both slower than the GTX 485M.

It's obvious he is just trying to play up the PS3 becasue they won't be doing a PS4 for several years.

Once the competition gets their consoles out on the market Sony will announce their new console which will be comparable in power. I doubt they are going to try to make it a super amazing powerful console like they wanted to do with the PS3 as the PS3 kind of exploded in their faces.

Is it just me or have all the 3 major companies lost their damn minds?todd2r

The PS4 total cost would still be less than the ps3 launch price.

No new wonder CPU and they can use blueray again.

Because of that they could launch with Xbox 360 Pro Launch price of 399.99 dollars.

Even Vita will launch super cheap and is very powerfull with new tech.

Yes GTX 485M have a higher diesize than a slim x360.

But the original90nm RSX die size - 258 mm^2

original 90nm Xenos (x360 gpu) die size - 232 mm^2

PS4 can launch with 28NM GTX485M and have a die size of 232.4 mm^2 thats same as original Phat Xbox 360 gpu size and is less than original phat ps3 RSX. And PS4 can have same Total Thermal output as the launch PS3 unit if theyget a decent CPU for it.

PS4 slim will come later my freind with smaller gpu die size.

oh and the HD6870 is a 170watt gpu even if diedize issmaller and the Llano is not that powerfull with6620 gpu.

And the HD5870M/HD6970M TDP 50/70watt are both slower than the GTX 485M.

Com64-2

You have to factor in CELL's SPEs since NV RSX/G70 is less capable than AMD Xenos. Let Sony design another $600 USD console LOL....

On 6970M vs GTX 485M subject, it depends on the benchmark mix. And 6970M is not slower than the GTX 485M.

6970M's Crysis 2 on Ultra details settings 30.2 fps

6970M's Crysis 2 on High details settings 96.8 fps

http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-6970M.43077.0.html

• 75 to 100 watts. Btw. your170 wattsis wrong i.e. it's off by70 to 95watts.
• die size around 255mm^2 i.e. based on desktop Radeon HD 6870.

VS

GTX 485M Crysis 2 on Ultra settings scores 30.3 fps

GTX 485M Crysis 2 on High settings scores 87.8 fps

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-485M.42883.0.html

• 100 watts
• die size around 332 mm^2 i.e. based on desktop GF104

PS; Crysis 2 PC is TWIMTBP game.

---

On Metro 2033 -Ultra settings

6970M = 18 fps

GTX485M = 16 fps

On Metro 2033 - High settings

6970M = 50 fps

GTX485M = 48 fps

On Crysis - GPU Benchmark - Ultra settings

6970M = 24.6 fps

GTX485M= 22.6 fps

GTA IV - Grand Theft Auto - High settings

6970M = 120.5 fps

GTX485M= 62 fps

For given amount of performance, NVIDIA designs large GPU cores.

------------------------------------------

AMD Radeon HD 5800, ~6.287 million transisiors per mm^2

AMD Radeon HD 6800, ~6.67 million transisiors per mm^2

NVIDIA Geforce GTX 460, ~5.31 million transisiors per mm^2

AMD easily beats NVIDIA on transisiors per mm^2.

720P where it's at....

I hope he's wrong -.-'

[QUOTE="Com64-2"]

Yes GTX 485M have a higher diesize than a slim x360.

But the original90nm RSX die size - 258 mm^2

original 90nm Xenos (x360 gpu) die size - 232 mm^2

PS4 can launch with 28NM GTX485M and have a die size of 232.4 mm^2 thats same as original Phat Xbox 360 gpu size and is less than original phat ps3 RSX. And PS4 can have same Total Thermal output as the launch PS3 unit if theyget a decent CPU for it.

PS4 slim will come later my freind with smaller gpu die size.

oh and the HD6870 is a 170watt gpu even if diedize issmaller and the Llano is not that powerfull with6620 gpu.

And the HD5870M/HD6970M TDP 50/70watt are both slower than the GTX 485M.

ronvalencia

On 6970M vs GTX485M subject, it depends on the benchmark mix.

6970M's Crysis 2 on Ultra details scores 30.2 fps

6970M's Crysis 2 on High details scores 96.8 fps

http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-6970M.43077.0.html

75 to 100 watts

VS

GTX 485M Crysis 2 on Ultra details scores 30.3 fps

GTX 485M Crysis 2 on Ultra details scores 87.8 fps

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-485M.42883.0.html

100 watts

PS; Crysis 2 PC is TWIMTBP game.

---

On Metro 2033 -Ultra settings

6970M = 18 fps

GTX485M = 16 fps

On Metro 2033 - High settings

6970M = 50 fps

GTX485M = 48 fps

On Crysis - GPU Benchmark - Ultra settings

6970M = 24.6 fps

GTX485M= 22.6 fps

GTA IV - Grand Theft Auto - High settings

6970M = 120.5 fps

GTX485M= 62 fps

yes they are about equal in some games but overall the GTX485M is 5 % faster.

And I just found out that both cards are 100watt TDP at 40NM.

And both will be 70watt in 28NM if they launch 2012 holiday.

Sony could also use a slightly gimped GTX580Mobile with equal TDP and diesize of GTX485M or maybe they will use another GPU from IMG power VR 6 rogue.

Only Sony knows But my point is that a GTX 485M PS4 at 28nm is possible without sony building a super powerhouse like the ps3 was at launch.

GTX485M would be old tech when theyannounce the PS4 and they could get it cheaper than the RSX that was cutting edge PC tech when they announced the PS3 at E3 2005.

It's hard to say right now.I do not think we'll have a console with a lot better graphics than the PS3 currently offered.I believe the future will be to offer consumers better and more accessible experience .The aim will be to make more people enter the world of video games and try to design titles for women.bigboss5ak

yes they are about equal in some games but overall the GTX485M is 5 % faster.

Com64-2

Where did you get 5 percent? What benchmark mix are they?

Any averages are dependant on the benchmark mix.

And I just found out that both cards are 100watt TDP at 40NM.

Com64-2

For 6970M, Eurocom states that the TDP ranges from 75-100 Watts. http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Mobile-GPU-Battle-Radeon-vs-GeForce-w-Eurocom/?page=1

Btw, read http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/item/23000-new-nintendo-wii-u-has-amd-radeon

According to Fudzilla, AMD might have design wins for all 3 consoles i.e.includes Sony's next HD console.

Also, read

http://au.gamespot.com/forums/topic/28718557/nvidia--hp--consoles-are-dying--1-gen-left-?page=0

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/161496/news/the-days-of-consoles-are-numbered-claim-pc-bosses/

NVIDIA has negative remarks on game consoles.

AMD has 3 stream processor array designs to choice from

1. VLIW5 (DX11, Cypress/Bart)

2. VLIW4 (DX11, Cayman)

3. 1 scalar + 4 way SIMD (DX11, Next GPU core). Ready by the end of 2011 year.

I doubt they are going to try to make it a super amazing powerful console like they wanted to do with the PS3 as the PS3 kind of exploded in their faces.

Wasdie

[QUOTE="1stPlaceWinner"]

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"] You spend 90% of the game shooting in the third person....i5750at4Ghz

no you can stealth too, and platforming, and the fact that every site classifies it as an action adv

So let me guess you think Zelda is a hack and slash because you use your sword 90% of the time right.:roll:

[QUOTE="Com64-2"]

yes they are about equal in some games but overall the GTX485M is 5 % faster.

ronvalencia

Where did you get 5 percent? What benchmark mix are they?

Any averages are dependant on the benchmark mix.

And I just found out that both cards are 100watt TDP at 40NM.

Com64-2

For 6970M, Eurocom states that the TDP ranges from 75-100 Watts. http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Mobile-GPU-Battle-Radeon-vs-GeForce-w-Eurocom/?page=1

Btw, read http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/item/23000-new-nintendo-wii-u-has-amd-radeon

According to Fudzilla, AMD might have design wins for all 3 consoles i.e.includes Sony's next HD console.

Also, read

http://au.gamespot.com/forums/topic/28718557/nvidia--hp--consoles-are-dying--1-gen-left-?page=0

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/161496/news/the-days-of-consoles-are-numbered-claim-pc-bosses/

NVIDIA has negative remarks on game consoles.

AMD has 3 stream processor array designs to choice from

1. VLIW5 (DX11, Cypress/Bart)

2. VLIW4 (DX11, Cayman)

3. 1 scalar + 4 way SIMD (DX11, Next GPU core). Ready by the end of 2011 year.

Nice read.

VLIW5 would be great and cheaper than new tech.If sony have AMD I hope they have made a good deal with a custom part like Xenos.

And consoles wont die just yet. They may evolve to something new.

Misleading headline. He never said the PS4 may not have better graphics. He says they may not be "a lot" better. So still better just not a massive leap.

Dear god if that's true I'll be switching over.

I agree that the ps4 needs to be more accessible and cheap. Sony should aim for making more profit this time around as the ps3 just been bleeding them the whol generation. We all know the ps3 has the power, this time they needto make it accessible to devs, so they can utilize the power.