Seriously SW, its not hard to understand. GTA DLC was a loan.

It just boggles my mind that people don't know this. I've never seen a topic, discussion or article that DID NOT mention it was a loan.

Its like as if the article headline said: Microsoft pays 50 million as a loan to Rockstar and reader only read the bold part...

I don't care too much about Microsoft's money, but the lack of reading comprehension is just too blatant to not bring up.

If it were TRULY, just a loan...then ROCKSTAR would be slapping GTA4 DLC everywhere.

Trust me, it's more than "just a loan", no matter which Public Relation's agent is spinning and writing the article.

The proof is in the pudding....not too mention that Rockstar was swimming with money from GTA4, and they didn't need "a loan"

Anyways, where is the LINK? I want proof this is "JUST A LOAN", before this thread is rampant with assumptions.

----------------

Talking about DLC :

You know what blows about DLC? The DLC is tied to an online account.

In 5 to 10 years, when I'm going through my classic phase, and I go and rebuy an old classic PS3/360, I won't have that DLC available to me, unless I take those old machines online, or if I save my exact profile and HDD.

It's cool that it exists, but I would rather see the DLC in disc form, as I am always thinking about inconvienances like this.

I want a tangible product, i can hold, and play in any 360 in a decade.

Why would they need or want a loan from MS when GTA4 just brought them in a **** load of money? It makes no sense. No loan means that the game would go on PSN too and equal more money for them, unless the money was given to them by MS.

Clear as day

If it were TRULY, just a loan...then ROCKSTAR would be slapping GTA4 DLC everywhere.

Trust me, it's more than "just a loan", no matter who's writing the article.

The facts are clear as day.

SolidTy

I'm not going to deny that there were probably some incentives that were included in that transaction, but it still doesn't deviant from the fact that it was a loan.

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

If it were TRULY, just a loan...then ROCKSTAR would be slapping GTA4 DLC everywhere.

Trust me, it's more than "just a loan", no matter which Public Relation's agent is spinning and writing the article.

The proof is in the pudding.

Anyways, where is the LINK? I want proof this is "JUST A LOAN", before this thread is rampant with assumptions.

----------------

Talking about DLC :

You know what blows about DLC? The DLC is tied to an online account.

In 5 to 10 years, when I'm going through my classic phase, and I go and rebuy an old classic PS3/360, I won't have that DLC available to me, unless I take those old machines online, or if I save my exact profile and HDD.

It's cool that it exists, but I would rather see the DLC in disc form, as I am always thinking about inconvienances like this.

I want a tangible product, i can hold, and play in any 360 in a decade.

Blue-Sky

I'm not going to deny that there were probably some incentives that were included in that transaction, but it still doesn't deviant from the fact that it was a loan.

Let's get to the root of this thread....Who said it was "Just a Loan?" A public spokesperson for M$ and Rockstar? A Paid Public Relations expert at spinning the facts, and the public information?

Is there is an actual link, it may be a Public Relation's person BS'ing the public, but the link would be a start.

For all we know, some fanboy made that up, here in SW.It's the kind of Damage control posts I see here all the time.

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

If it were TRULY, just a loan...then ROCKSTAR would be slapping GTA4 DLC everywhere.

Trust me, it's more than "just a loan", no matter who's writing the article.

The facts are clear as day.

Blue-Sky

I'm not going to deny that there were probably some incentives that were included in that transaction, but it still doesn't deviant from the fact that it was a loan.

[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"][QUOTE="SolidTy"]

If it were TRULY, just a loan...then ROCKSTAR would be slapping GTA4 DLC everywhere.

Trust me, it's more than "just a loan", no matter who's writing the article.

The facts are clear as day.

Nedemis

I'm not going to deny that there were probably some incentives that were included in that transaction, but it still doesn't deviant from the fact that it was a loan.

i agree with TC i remember plenty of links stating it was a loan, R* was using alot of money to make GTA3 at the time why not sure you say they made alot of money off GTA3 but that was AFTER the deal no one knew how it would turn out. if i remember corectly MS gets 50mil back from the DLC then R* gets the rest after that, so rocksar makes money and theres a reason to buy the MS version over the PS3 they both win. but im at work right now and dont have time to find a linkriver_rat3117

It just boggles my mind that people don't know this. I've never seen a topic, discussion or article that DID NOT mention it was a loan.

Its like as if the article headline said: Microsoft pays 50 million as a loan to Rockstar and reader only read the bold part...

I don't care too much about Microsoft's money, but the lack of reading comprehension is just too blatant to not bring up.

Blue-Sky

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

If it were TRULY, just a loan...then ROCKSTAR would be slapping GTA4 DLC everywhere.

Trust me, it's more than "just a loan", no matter who's writing the article.

The facts are clear as day.

Blue-Sky

I'm not going to deny that there were probably some incentives that were included in that transaction, but it still doesn't deviant from the fact that it was a loan.

Is there anyone that is going to get a 360 just to get hold on the complete Fallout 3 and GTA4 versions ?

I guess those games are huge and popular enough to make people get a 360 just to have the complete versions of those games

[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

It just boggles my mind that people don't know this. I've never seen a topic, discussion or article that DID NOT mention it was a loan.

Its like as if the article headline said: Microsoft pays 50 million as a loan to Rockstar and reader only read the bold part...

I don't care too much about Microsoft's money, but the lack of reading comprehension is just too blatant to not bring up.

doobie1975

I don't see why a lemming would try and deny it. Like you said, there is no reason to be upset over it, unless you don't have a 360 that is.

From what I heard sounds more like a business investment.

Microsoft invests $50 Million to Rockstar. Rockstar uses that $50 Million for operational costs.

In return, Microsoft is given a peice of the profit in the direct form of $50 Million, and in the indirect form of more consoles sold which results in more games sold. Microsoft also gets to spite one of its biggest competitors.

Pretty sweet deal if you ask me =/

Yup, what I said above. Why would rockstar need a loan right after they made a **** load of money on gta4? No money from MS means they get more money from consumers since the product would reach a wider market.Chutebox

i thought it was common knowledge that the 50 million was a loanst1ka

All these people saying that they read the link and it said the 50 million is a loan. None of these people provided a link, and ignored all posts which requested for one. Why am I not surprised? If you've read the link, then give the link.Vanadium2k8

They probably mean that MS will benefit after the expansion release, so it is kind of a loan

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]Yup, what I said above. Why would rockstar need a loan right after they made a **** load of money on gta4? No money from MS means they get more money from consumers since the product would reach a wider market.lowe0

[QUOTE="st1ka"]i thought it was common knowledge that the 50 million was a loanLionheart08

the exclusive DLC is the means to an end

[QUOTE="st1ka"]i thought it was common knowledge that the 50 million was a loanLionheart08

[QUOTE="Lionheart08"][QUOTE="st1ka"]i thought it was common knowledge that the 50 million was a loanlusitanogamer

i think your missing the point, Rockstar will give the 50 million back in addition to the exclusive DLC.

If anything the DLC is interest

when you go to a restaurant you only get your meal, not your meal and your money back

[QUOTE="lusitanogamer"][QUOTE="Lionheart08"] Payed back through exclusive DLC. :wink:st1ka

i think your missing the point, Rocstar will give the 50 million back in addition to the exclusive DLC.

[QUOTE="st1ka"]

[QUOTE="lusitanogamer"]Exactly. It's lunch time now over here. I'm going to a restaurant and i'm loaning them some money. They're paying me back with food.lusitanogamer

i think your missing the point, Rocstar will give the 50 million back in addition to the exclusive DLC.

[QUOTE="st1ka"]

[QUOTE="lusitanogamer"]Exactly. It's lunch time now over here. I'm going to a restaurant and i'm loaning them some money. They're paying me back with food.lusitanogamer

i think your missing the point, Rocstar will give the 50 million back in addition to the exclusive DLC.

this was about a year before GTA 4 was launched

here, check the date: june 2007

GTA 4 was launched in april 2008

[QUOTE="lusitanogamer"][QUOTE="st1ka"]

i think your missing the point, Rocstar will give the 50 million back in addition to the exclusive DLC.

Chutebox

[QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="lusitanogamer"]It may be the case, but why the hell would Rockstar need to borrow 50 million from MS? They made a load of money with GTA4. Lets not be naive. MS payed R* the 50 million for exclusive DLC.st1ka

Where did you hear that?Chutebox

Taking that 70/30 split (publisher/Microsoft) and the $50 million advance into account, Microsoft is apparently confident that GTA IV download revenues over Xbox Live will be at least $70 million.

If revenues don't meet that figure, Take-Two will have to return some of the advance, according to Pachter. But he said that there's no reason to believe Take-Two would actually miss that revenue target.Edge

source

[QUOTE="Chutebox"] Where did you hear that?st1ka

Taking that 70/30 split (publisher/Microsoft) and the $50 million advance into account, Microsoft is apparently confident that GTA IV download revenues over Xbox Live will be at least $70 million.

If revenues don't meet that figure, Take-Two will have to return some of the advance, according to Pachter. But he said that there's no reason to believe Take-Two would actually miss that revenue target.Edge

source

[QUOTE="st1ka"]

[QUOTE="Edge"]Taking that 70/30 split (publisher/Microsoft) and the $50 million advance into account, Microsoft is apparently confident that GTA IV download revenues over Xbox Live will be at least $70 million.

If revenues don't meet that figure, Take-Two will have to return some of the advance, according to Pachter. But he said that there's no reason to believe Take-Two would actually miss that revenue target.Chutebox

source

the difference plus interest

[QUOTE="lusitanogamer"][QUOTE="st1ka"]

i think your missing the point, Rocstar will give the 50 million back in addition to the exclusive DLC.

st1ka

this was about a year before GTA 4 was launched

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="lusitanogamer"]It may be the case, but why the hell would Rockstar need to borrow 50 million from MS? They made a load of money with GTA4. Lets not be naive. MS payed R* the 50 million for exclusive DLC.lusitanogamer

this was about a year before GTA 4 was launched

now we're degrading in to guesswork?

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]

[QUOTE="st1ka"]

source

st1ka

the difference plus interest

[QUOTE="lusitanogamer"][QUOTE="st1ka"]

this was about a year before GTA 4 was launched

st1ka

now we're degrading in to guesswork?

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="Chutebox"] So if MS doesn't make enough money from the DLC, R* has to return the difference?Chutebox

the difference plus interest

buying something means you pay for it and you get your product.

The difference here is that microsoft gets the DLC as collateral, their money back and interest.

I'd say there's quite a difference.

[QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="st1ka"]

the difference plus interest

st1ka

buying something means you pay for it and you get your product.

The difference here is that microsoft gets the DLC as collateral, their money back and interest.

I'd say there's quite a difference.

What you are describing is a deal that only benefits M$ (The benefits are way too lopsided in M$'s favor), and no company would agree too, there are details the public is not privy to, because this deal makes little sense.

Obviously Rockstar isn't talking, nor M$, just an analyst.

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="lusitanogamer"]I don't remember hearing about this "loan" that early. Maybe my memory is failing me. A loan still doesn't make much sense even if it was that early. The GTA series is a gold mine. I bet they had plenty of money from the previous games to work on GTA4. Chutebox

now we're degrading in to guesswork?

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="Chutebox"] So, Rockstar got 50 million for their DLC, and MS gets at least that out of the deal. This is essentially buying the DLC no?SolidTy

buying something means you pay for it and you get your product.

The difference here is that microsoft gets the DLC as collateral, their money back and interest.

I'd say there's quite a difference.

What you are describing is a deal that only benefits M$ (The benefits are way too lopsided in M$'s favor), and no company would agree too, there are details the public is not privy to, because this deal makes little sense.

Obviously Rockstar isn't talking, nor M$, just an analyst.

i agree, but then again we don't really know the terms of the contract, in my opinion rockstar was going trough a liquidity crisis. You'd be surprised the terms companies are willing to accept when their funds aren't in a liquid state

[QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="st1ka"]

now we're degrading in to guesswork?

st1ka

Lol, k gotta go sleep.

Like I said above, if I only hada 360, there is nothing to defend. MS is just able to throw money around more than any other game company, no biggie.

It's an Advance in lieu of sales not a loan.

There will be a point when MS has to cough up more money to Rockstar after the sales of the DLC reach a certain target but before then MS will be recouping it's initial outlay.

For this reason the money doesn't need to be paid back and is not a loan.

Effectively MS is hedging it's bets and saying yep we think together the two lots of DLC for the 360 will generate more than $50mil in revenue.

Not too hard to calculate is it? $10 per DLC release and there's two of them, vgChartz* says 6.82m sales of GTAIV on 360.

So if everyone who owns GTAIV gets both lots of DLC that's $136.4million even if the uptake is only 50% then the MS pull in over $65million so you see paying Rockstar for the DLC in advance of sales to guarantee it's exclusive is good business sense just from sales of the DLC.

Then there's additional console sales because the DLC is only on 360!

All good for MS and 360 owners.

* I know a lot of people don't like vgChartz but for my example it's perfect the exact figure isn't relevant!

i agree, but then again we don't really know the terms of the contract, in my opinion rockstar was going trough a liquidity crisis. You'd be surprised the terms companies are willing to accept when their funds aren't in a liquid state

st1ka

Cash flow for games companies is always a problem it's hard to sustain a constant revenue stream unless you've got a game that has a subscription like WoW. So I agree the liquidity was possibly a problem but I bet Rockstar will be paid more money if the DLC sells more than around 3million for each release.

It's win/win for both sides. Rockstar get the money upfront setting them up nicely to work on more games, MS gets the exclusive DLC and the chance to earn more money out of it.

Phil

People seem to be forgetting at the time take two was on the verge of being bought out and had very little left to fight with. You should thank Microsoft really, while sony sat on there hands they stepped up and saved T2 from EA and did it while benefiting there loyal gamers too.

Pity Sony doesn't care as much. :)