Shane Kim; We'll see more titles that require multiple disks (xbox 360)

[QUOTE="dragonpuppy"]

Just so you know, Oblivion reuses textures. Mass Effect, I don't quite remember but I believe there was a bunch of reused texures in some places.

AmyMizuno

Yes, but GTAIV doesn't reuse too many textures. It's staggering the different amount of textures and models they have in the game, to make each area more unique.

I honestly don't know how the hell they managed to compress GTAIV to fit on a DVD. It's black magic.

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]I knew this was eventually going to happen. The size of games isn't going to get any smaller, and compression can only go so far before the entire experience is degraded. This is because Microsoft HAD to get their 360 out the door first, meaning that they weren't able to put HD-DVD in the 360.Nagidar

That has nothing to do with it, MS said from the beginning, DVD9 is enough for this gen.

The reason MS didn't put a HD-DVD drive in the 360, is:

1. They felt it wasn't needed. (And so far, have been right)

2. They tried to stay out of the format war.

ofcourse they're right... If a game in the future requires a second disc then so be it... But considering the fact that some of the 360's biggest games are already out and they all fit onto one DVD is a slap in the face of bluray. It doesn't help the br argument that the 360's games are some of the highest rated games this gen..

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"][QUOTE="ironcreed"]

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]I knew this was eventually going to happen. The size of games isn't going to get any smaller, and compression can only go so far before the entire experience is degraded. This is because Microsoft HAD to get their 360 out the door first, meaning that they weren't able to put HD-DVD in the 360.ironcreed

Yes, and I am sure they are quite glad now that they did not make the 360 with an HD-DVD drive as being standard. You know, beings that it is now a dead format and all?

Well, contemplating on why they did not gamble with making it standard with a bunch of "what if" presumptions is irrelevant as well....because it did not happen. And since HD-DVD is in fact now dead, I am sure that M$ are breathing a sigh of relief because they decided to stay with what is still considered the standard format in DVD9 for this gen. A safer bet that ultimately did work in their favor. Playing the "what if" game is what is irrelevant here.

UMD is a failed format too but does that mean the PSP is a failure? No.... It just means they put PSP games on UMDs now and not movies, no big deal. So that excuse doesn't work for me...

[QUOTE="Nagidar"]

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]I knew this was eventually going to happen. The size of games isn't going to get any smaller, and compression can only go so far before the entire experience is degraded. This is because Microsoft HAD to get their 360 out the door first, meaning that they weren't able to put HD-DVD in the 360.AmyMizuno

That has nothing to do with it, MS said from the beginning, DVD9 is enough for this gen.

The reason MS didn't put a HD-DVD drive in the 360, is:

1. They felt it wasn't needed. (And so far, have been right)

2. They tried to stay out of the format war.

I think that most of the designers of the 360 knew that DVD capacity was pushing it, and that they may eventually run out of space. I don't think they predicted that it would happen as quickly, so in part, I think you are correct that they 'felt it wasn't needed.' Feeling and being right are two different things.

MS supported HD-DVD, they don't rely on it, big difference.

As far as MS feeling DVD9 was enough, so far, they have been right.

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

Oh noes!!!! teh evil disk swapping has robbed me of teh immersion in my shooter box. I bet I have to shoot at a guy and then swap discs to see if it hit.

SpruceCaboose

Could you imagine how much that would ratchet up the anticipation though? You'd be on pins and needles seeing if you made the kill.

Everyone here played Resident Evil 4 right?

If not go play it, come back and then try to say disk swaping is terrible... It's not our fault if you can't get off your ass half way through the game to do a task which requires minimal effort.

[QUOTE="Nagidar"]

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]I knew this was eventually going to happen. The size of games isn't going to get any smaller, and compression can only go so far before the entire experience is degraded. This is because Microsoft HAD to get their 360 out the door first, meaning that they weren't able to put HD-DVD in the 360.OhSnapitz

That has nothing to do with it, MS said from the beginning, DVD9 is enough for this gen.

The reason MS didn't put a HD-DVD drive in the 360, is:

1. They felt it wasn't needed. (And so far, have been right)

2. They tried to stay out of the format war.

ofcourse they're right... If a game in the future requires a second disc then so be it... But considering the fact that some of the 360's biggest games are already out and they all fit onto one DVD is a slap in the face of bluray. It doesn't help the br argument that the 360's games are some of the highest rated games this gen..

Yes but you're forgetting the fact that developers have barely scratched the surface of what the PS3 is capable of so it's not hard to imagine games getting bigger and bigger as they put more and more into PS3 games. As for the 360 since it's allot easier to develop for I think developers are already getting at least 75% of what that machine can do.

Doesn't bother me in the least. Infact, I actually like having more discs. Gives a sense that the game is going to be lenghy and large. The only thing that bothers me is the crappy cases they put them in. Like the LO case where they just jam 3 discs in a CD holder and put 1 disc in a paper holder.Dahaka-UK

"I actually like having more discs." :lol: :lol:

I've got hundreds of floppy disks I could sell you if your interested.

[QUOTE="OhSnapitz"][QUOTE="Nagidar"]

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]I knew this was eventually going to happen. The size of games isn't going to get any smaller, and compression can only go so far before the entire experience is degraded. This is because Microsoft HAD to get their 360 out the door first, meaning that they weren't able to put HD-DVD in the 360.jdt532

That has nothing to do with it, MS said from the beginning, DVD9 is enough for this gen.

The reason MS didn't put a HD-DVD drive in the 360, is:

1. They felt it wasn't needed. (And so far, have been right)

2. They tried to stay out of the format war.

ofcourse they're right... If a game in the future requires a second disc then so be it... But considering the fact that some of the 360's biggest games are already out and they all fit onto one DVD is a slap in the face of bluray. It doesn't help the br argument that the 360's games are some of the highest rated games this gen..

Yes but you're forgetting the fact that developers have barely scratched the surface of what the PS3 is capable of so it's not hard to imagine games getting bigger and bigger as they put more and more into PS3 games. As for the 360 since it's allot easier to develop for I think developers are already getting at least 75% of what that machine can do.

wow

talk about a fanboy but didnt kojima say he pushed the ps3 to its limits. i guess will be dealing with low res textures for the rest of the ps3's like then

I thought Blu Ray is not needed.De_Bears

HDMI isn't needed either, or a Harddrive, or reliability. MS has no hardware strategy at all. They are just reacting reacting reacting.

[QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"][QUOTE="jdt532"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

I love how you cut out the middle of that quote:

"but I don't think that the problem is so drastic that everyone will say, it was a huge mistake that we didn't include a Blu-ray drive - I just don't believe that. What we've been able to see with the vast majority of titles on Xbox 360 is really great experiences [that are] not constrained by the lack of hard drive or larger capacity on a disc."

AmyMizuno

In that quote he was speaking in past tense but in the future there will be more and more titles on multiple disks on the 360. As for how bad it will be, we will see. But the fact is is that M$ swore that DVD-9 was good enough and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD wasn't needed but now they seem to be preparing people for the fact that as time goes by there will be more and more multiple disk games. So I guess they were lying when they said BR wasn't needed for games...

It is good enough for this generation, multiple disc games are no problem, I played Lost Odyssey and had no problem getting up opening the disc tray and changing the discs.

UMD is a failed format too but does that mean the PSP is a failure? No.... It just means they put PSP games on UMDs now and not movies, no big deal. So that excuse doesn't work for me...

jdt532

It is not an excuse at all, my friend. DVD9 is still standard and likely will be for the next few years as Blu Ray takes hold. Therefore, for this generation, DVD9 is not going to be an issue for the 360. The only one making excuses is you with the examples you just provided. As your sole intent in this thread is to try and wave a fantasy land warning flag that suggests that the 360 is somehow going to be in trouble this generation because of DVD9, which is nothing more than ridiculous fanboy wishful thinking.

With all due respect, I do believe that the Microsoft research and development department who had a hand in finalizing the design of the 360 are far more informed than you are in regards to where the market stands and where it will be by next gen. Therefore, I think they know what they are doing. And the success of the 360 speaks for itself and renders your entire argument here as being futile....not to mention feeble. Thanks for trying though, as the reality of the situation proves you dead wrong.

[QUOTE="blackice1983"]

wow

talk about a fanboy but didnt kojima say he pushed the ps3 to its limits. i guess will be dealing with low res textures for the rest of the ps3's like then

AmyMizuno

Also, why are we criticizing MGS4 almost a month before it's release? It's not like you've played it and have determined that it's textures are garbage.

im only using his logic. and yeah the textures are pretty damn bad in the game i dont need to play it to see that

[QUOTE="blackice1983"]

wow

talk about a fanboy but didnt kojima say he pushed the ps3 to its limits. i guess will be dealing with low res textures for the rest of the ps3's like then

AmyMizuno

Also, why are we criticizing MGS4 almost a month before it's release? It's not like you've played it and have determined that it's textures are garbage.

im only using his logic. and yeah the textures are pretty damn bad in the game i dont need to play it to see that

[QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"][QUOTE="jdt532"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

I love how you cut out the middle of that quote:

"but I don't think that the problem is so drastic that everyone will say, it was a huge mistake that we didn't include a Blu-ray drive - I just don't believe that. What we've been able to see with the vast majority of titles on Xbox 360 is really great experiences [that are] not constrained by the lack of hard drive or larger capacity on a disc."

AmyMizuno

In that quote he was speaking in past tense but in the future there will be more and more titles on multiple disks on the 360. As for how bad it will be, we will see. But the fact is is that M$ swore that DVD-9 was good enough and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD wasn't needed but now they seem to be preparing people for the fact that as time goes by there will be more and more multiple disk games. So I guess they were lying when they said BR wasn't needed for games...

It is good enough for this generation, multiple disc games are no problem, I played Lost Odyssey and had no problem getting up opening the disc tray and changing the discs.

But there was no porblem with GTA 4, disc swapping could work for sandbox games if done right, such as in GTA 5 you start off in Liberty City, but you can go to Vice City by going to the airport and after that you are asked to change to the Vice City disc.

Right now Blu-Ray is not needed.

[QUOTE="jdt532"]

UMD is a failed format too but does that mean the PSP is a failure? No.... It just means they put PSP games on UMDs now and not movies, no big deal. So that excuse doesn't work for me...

ironcreed

It is not an excuse at all, my friend. DVD9 is still standard and likely will be for the next few years as Blu Ray takes hold. Therefore, for this generation, DVD9 is not going to be an issue for the 360. The only one making excuses is you with the examples you just provided. As your sole intent in this thread is to try and wave a fantasy land warning flag that suggests that the 360 is somehow going to be in trouble this generation because of DVD9, which is nothing more than ridiculous fanboy wishful thinking.

With all due respect, I do believe that the Microsoft research and development department who had a hand in finalizing the design of the 360 are far more informed than you are in regards to where the market stands and where it will be by next gen. Therefore, I think they know what they are doing. And the success of the 360 speaks for itself and renders your entire argument here as being futile....not to mention feeble. Thanks for trying though, as the reality of the situation proves you dead wrong.

When did I say that the 360 would fail because of games on DVD-9? All I'm saying is that DVD-9 is already being pushed to the limit and in the future more and more games will be on multiple disks. I'm also pointing out how m$ lied at first saying DVD-9 is enough for games when now we can see that's not the case and it will only get worse because this generation of consoles has many years ahead of it still. As for M$ R&D they are not going to come out and say we put a last gen. media drive in the 360 so we can get our console to market first, they will say DVD is just fine. Sony has an R&D team as well that says BR is needed for games but I know you wont take their word on that so why would I be expected to listen to Microsoft's spin?...

blu ray isnt needed because what ps3 games have won goty ?blitzkid1

definitely not blue dragon or lost oddysey.

Just read the interview. Here is the part I think is important.

"..and the challenge is then for the developer to create a good experience that doesn't require a whole bunch of disc swapping."

So basically he's admitting that they are putting limitations on developers and that's another reason why having all the data on one disk is an advantage.

[QUOTE="ironcreed"][QUOTE="jdt532"]

UMD is a failed format too but does that mean the PSP is a failure? No.... It just means they put PSP games on UMDs now and not movies, no big deal. So that excuse doesn't work for me...

jdt532

It is not an excuse at all, my friend. DVD9 is still standard and likely will be for the next few years as Blu Ray takes hold. Therefore, for this generation, DVD9 is not going to be an issue for the 360. The only one making excuses is you with the examples you just provided. As your sole intent in this thread is to try and wave a fantasy land warning flag that suggests that the 360 is somehow going to be in trouble this generation because of DVD9, which is nothing more than ridiculous fanboy wishful thinking.

With all due respect, I do believe that the Microsoft research and development department who had a hand in finalizing the design of the 360 are far more informed than you are in regards to where the market stands and where it will be by next gen. Therefore, I think they know what they are doing. And the success of the 360 speaks for itself and renders your entire argument here as being futile....not to mention feeble. Thanks for trying though, as the reality of the situation proves you dead wrong.

When did I say that the 360 would fail because of games on DVD-9? All I'm saying is that DVD-9 is already being pushed to the limit and in the future more and more games will be on multiple disks. I'm also pointing out how m$ lied at first saying DVD-9 is enough for games when now we can see that's not the case and it will only get worse because this generation of consoles has many years ahead of it still. As for M$ R&D they are not going to come out and say we put a last gen. media drive in the 360 so we can get our console to market first, they will say DVD is just fine. Sony has an R&D team as well that says BR is needed for games but I know you wont take their word on that so why would I be expected to listen to Microsoft's spin?...

Fair enough, perhaps a came off as a little harsh there. My point is that we all know that DVD9 is in it's last days, but it is not going to be an issue this gen. So, the 360 will be fine. No argument to be had, lol.

As per your statement about me not taking Sony's word for Blu Ray being needed? Well, your are quite wrong. I own a PS3 as well, and actually prefer the system as a whole over the 360. I also DO in fact believe that Blu Ray was a wise choice for Sony, I just do not see it's benefits making any real landmark impacts until probably next generation. It has just not happened yet, even though games like MGS4 are a step in the right direction.

[QUOTE="xxastrocreepxx"]Guess the TC can't remember when cows said Oblivion on 360 would be on mulitple discs. :lol:AmyMizuno

Also Oblivion uses the same textures for everything. One thing that broke the immersion for me was how every mine, every cavern, every gate, etc.... pretty much looked the same.

I love how you cut out the middle of that quote:

"but I don't think that the problem is so drastic that everyone will say, it was a huge mistake that we didn't include a Blu-ray drive - I just don't believe that. What we've been able to see with the vast majority of titles on Xbox 360 is really great experiences [that are] not constrained by the lack of hard drive or larger capacity on a disc."

SpruceCaboose

hahaha cows are being sneaky now!

At least, he's being honest. I prefer that much more than the usual, corporate talk.NWA_31

I will give him that. It's refreshing after some of his comments last week. Also in this interview he downplays Gears2 as not being as big as Halo3. That is true, but I'd never thought anyone from MS would say it.

[QUOTE="jdt532"]

When did I say that the 360 would fail because of games on DVD-9? All I'm saying is that DVD-9 is already being pushed to the limit and in the future more and more games will be on multiple disks. I'm also pointing out how m$ lied at first saying DVD-9 is enough for games when now we can see that's not the case and it will only get worse because this generation of consoles has many years ahead of it still. As for M$ R&D they are not going to come out and say we put a last gen. media drive in the 360 so we can get our console to market first, they will say DVD is just fine. Sony has an R&D team as well that says BR is needed for games but I know you wont take their word on that so why would I be expected to listen to Microsoft's spin?...

AmyMizuno

1) Reduce the quality of the sound to cram the game onto the disk (the sound quality will be on par with a youtube video)
2) Disk swapping, and this is only possible in certian genres, as some genres aren't suitable for disk swapping.

Don't forget that high resolution textures that you find in games like Gears Of War and Uncharted take up allot of space on a disc. The reason games like that are so detailed is because they use texture streaming which allows each level in the game to have tons of really high detail, high resolution textures without busting the RAM capacity. The only problem with texture streaming is that it eats up disc space. I think each level in Gears is about 1GB which explains why that game only has about 8 to 9 levels on a DVD-9. On a BR disc though you have the capacity for 25 to 50 different levels using texture streaming for high detail textures. It's hard for me to believe they use texture streaming in games like GTA:IV which is why that game has allot of low resolution textures.

OH NOES!! WE'LL HAVE TO GET UP EVERY 7 HOURS AND CHANGE THE DISC!!! THE WORLD IS GOING TO END!!!!!ONE$@$!!ONE!!

FantasySports02

And...in other words...some people are just lazy.

[QUOTE="EmperorSupreme"]

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"][QUOTE="xxastrocreepxx"]Guess the TC can't remember when cows said Oblivion on 360 would be on mulitple discs. :lol:AmyMizuno

Also Oblivion uses the same textures for everything. One thing that broke the immersion for me was how every mine, every cavern, every gate, etc.... pretty much looked the same.

Thinking about it more you are probably right, for it's time Oblivion was pretty amazing. I forgot it's over 2 years old now.

[QUOTE="Nagidar"][QUOTE="dragonpuppy"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="dragonpuppy"]

You don't really know if it's required or not. Unless you got a crystal ball that tells you how big games are gonna get in 3-4 years, you're just talking out of your @**.

jdt532

Or, I could be using past precedence to make an accurate guess into the future. Oblivion, GTA IV, Mass Effect, etc all fit on a DVD. Those games are massive.

And for the record, I could say its not needed. We could all use floppy discs to get games onto systems. We may need a few thousand, but you could use them.

Just so you know, Oblivion reuses textures. Mass Effect, I don't quite :?remember but I believe there was a bunch of reused texures in some places.

Most games re-use textures, its easier and more efficient, re-using textures means less dev time.

Yes but not at the same level that textures are re-used on 360 games... Games like Oblivion where EVERY cave looks like an exact copy of the others and Mass Effect where every mine, space station, side quest planet looks exactly the same. Then you take a game like R&C: Future on the PS3 with 15+ different worlds to explore that are crammed with high resolution textures.

You are comparing a huge, open-world game with a platformer?

So for you Blu-Ray fanboys, have you noticed that aside from the month where HD-DVD gave up that sales have been going down for the format? No I didn't think so....APOLLOCJD

I guess that has nothing to do with Christmas being the quarter before.

It's not like you have to run twenty miles to change the disc people, sheesh.

[QUOTE="jdt532"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

I love how you cut out the middle of that quote:

"but I don't think that the problem is so drastic that everyone will say, it was a huge mistake that we didn't include a Blu-ray drive - I just don't believe that. What we've been able to see with the vast majority of titles on Xbox 360 is really great experiences [that are] not constrained by the lack of hard drive or larger capacity on a disc."

Chaos_HL21

In that quote he was speaking in past tense but in the future there will be more and more titles on multiple disks on the 360. As for how bad it will be, we will see. But the fact is is that M$ swore that DVD-9 was good enough and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD wasn't needed but now they seem to be preparing people for the fact that as time goes by there will be more and more multiple disk games. So I guess they were lying when they said BR wasn't needed for games...

It is good enough for this generation, multiple disc games are no problem, I played Lost Odyssey and had no problem getting up opening the disc tray and changing the discs.

[QUOTE="Zhengi"]I don't see what the problem is. All they'll do is make a shorter single player experience and concentrate on the multiplayer part. See? Disk storage problem solved.AmyMizuno

im sure you have more fun with the mutes on psn

It's not like you have to run twenty miles to change the disc people, sheesh.

TheEndBoss

Fat people every where are outraged