Shigeru Miyamoto is keeping Nintendo stuck in the past.

[QUOTE="XaosII"]

You might have had a point if Nintendo isnt the market leader at the moment.

Lethalhazard

I always see it being described towards games that don't meet expectations, like Lair. ;SLethalhazard

Yeah, thats not what shovelware is.

And casual gamers / hardcore gamers (stupid moniker is stupid) are entirely defined by the prespective, priority and importance of videogames in their lives, Its not a mesure of quality, it has nothing to do with "dumbed down/press A to win" or "kiddeh grfx on crappy mini games for soccermoms". Its about how invested they are in this hobby as a whole.

If i had to categorize myself, i think i'd be happily positioned somewere between the two ends of the spectrum.

[QUOTE="Thunderdrone"][QUOTE="Lethalhazard"] As for Nintendo themselves releasing shovel-ware, they do it occasionally.Lethalhazard

Even said, Sony knew it was time to pull the plug and gave Mr. Kutaragi an honorary sendoff 2 years ago.ChiefFreeman

...and what's Sony up to now? Oh yeah, they're trying to catch up from 3rd spot, after a series of completely awful decisions, including the one that you cite right there.

Are you one of those folks that looks for the 'm' rating in your games? If so, then why? What do you have to prove?

I've played some awful 'm' rated games, and I've also played some excellent 'e' rated games.

Wanting games to have mature themes just for the sake of mature themes is well, don't take this the wrong way, but, immature.

Besides, Shigeru isn't blocking mature games from the Wii. What evidence do you have to support this claim? He makes the games that he wants to make. They are good games. They are Nintendo games. They sell, and Nintendo is rolling in cash because of it. The fact is that the VAST MAJORITY of people don't necessarily want gore. Sure, they enjoy it where it is appropriate, but it need not splatter itself across every possible form of entertainment. Believe it or not, it is possible to have a good time without blood, gore, nudity, gun-play, and illicit drug use. Not every story has to be about the hero shooting, hacking, and slashing his way across a great sea of bad guys.

Sometimes, eating a shroom and jumping on koopas is just what the doctor ordered, Dr Mario, that is.

[QUOTE="Lethalhazard"][QUOTE="Thunderdrone"] I dont think you know what "shovelware" means, or "casuals".EddyPee

Nintendos 'Blue Ocean Strategy' has expanded the Wii's audience, but at the same time alienated much of their loyal hard core fanbase. They could learn some things from a real game company like Blizzard. They believe in catering to the hardcore first. Accessibility comes later. I couldn't agree more, and even the most ardent Nintendo fan can't knock the dominance of Blizzard. Their games are of the highest quality, and they are better than Nintendo.

ChiefFreeman

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

:::pauses laughter:::

You are talkinga bout Blizzard, right? The company that makes world of warcraft, right?

:::continues laughter:::

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

The only mmo more casual than world of warcraft is probably second life, but that's debatable. Even Hello Kitty Online is more "hardcore" than world of warcraft.

[QUOTE="XaosII"]

You might have had a point if Nintendo isnt the market leader at the moment.

Lethalhazard

[QUOTE="EddyPee"][QUOTE="Lethalhazard"] Shovelware describes a game that is less then stellar or just awful in general. Casuals I define as people that don't have gaming as their primary hobby, maybe playing a couple of hours or less a day. You know, like the people who buy a Wii to exercise, or the people that play WoW three hours a week and complain it's still too difficult.Lethalhazard

[QUOTE="deluxemando"][QUOTE="enterawesome"]Miyamoto made Super Mario Galaxy. Miyamoto is pushing the inudstry forward.Dibdibdobdobo

Miyamoto didn't make Super Mario Galaxy alone. The main designer of the game was Yoshiaki Koizumi. I don't think that Miyamoto had a big role making SMG at all actually.

The main designer of the game was Yoshiaki Koizumi. I don't think that Miyamoto had a big role making SMG at all actually.Supafly1

So YES, his role was HUGE in Galaxy. Learn your stuff

You do make many excellent points. But what you consider an landmark title and what others consider a landmark title are definately in conflict. Some think that Wii Sports and Wii Fit are some of Miyamoto's crowning achievements. And though I don't particularily enjoy either title myself, I can't disagree with that sentiment....those titles have changed console gaming forever.

Mr. Miyamoto may have been a pioneer in the gaming world, and his contributions are exceptionally noteworthy without doubt, but he's also become one of Nintendo's biggest thorns. He should do the right thing and step away from the company. Thank goodness for Satoru Iwata, because if Mr. M were president, we would never see ANY violent or mature titles even attempted to be made for the Wii, and it would have never been made online capable, no matter what you think of Nintendo's current haphazard online scheme. Remember how he totally dissed Rare during the N64 era over Goldeneye, because the game features guns and violence? Even though it was one of the best games (and some say THE best) for the system.

Although he's more or less just a figurehead now, why does he still have so much influence there? Game developers have caught up with, and surpassed his ideas and concepts for a long time now. Yet still, it seems every game made for the Wii has to have his personal stamp of approval and blessing to be made for the system. Well, I think that's a load. We live in the "What have you done for me lately?" age now, and Mr. Miyamoto, it seems, is happy to ride out the coattails of his past accomplishments until the day he dies, without attempting anything new or groundbreaking as Super Mario 64 was thirteen years ago. Wii Music? Well, I think we all know how that one turned out.

Sony didn't have any trouble pushing Ken Kutaragi out the door, and his influence was just as strong over there as Mr. Miyamoto's was to Nintendo. Yea, Krazy Ken was known for saying some ridiculous things -- "4d gaming, 120 fps on ps3 games, you will work harder to buy a ps3" , but he was also an electronics genius, and the Playstation brand would never have achieved the heights it did without him. Even said, Sony knew it was time to pull the plug and gave Mr. Kutaragi an honorary sendoff 2 years ago.

ChiefFreeman

I stopped reading there. Its like asking why does Stan Lee have so much influence at Marvel?

However, I do agree to a certain extent, but what can I say? Things are working out for Nintendo. His influence have always been software-related and software is Nintendo's strongest aspect. Most of the decisions, mistakes, I'd say say were out of his hands, like the N64 sticking with cartridges.

Ummm.... Nintendo would love to make Mature titles

http://wii.kombo.com/article.php?artid=14635

But for now, his hands are tied

Why are people STILL bashing SMG? Is GOTY not enough for you guys? As was stated above, Miyamoto had a huge influence on the game, from the orchestrated music, to spherical worlds, gravity, etc.

Not only that, but his creations like Wii Music and other stuff along those lines have brought millions of new gamers into the market, which is always a good thing.

To sum it up, he had a huge role in making 2007's GOTY, and he brought millions of new gamers on his back. How is he washed out again?

I agree in general that Miyamoto is stuck in the past and that he continues to do little more than rehash old gameplay. I also believe that he's completely out of touch with today's market. I believe he thinks kids still watch Barny, and that all the adults who grew up on Nintendo are still 5 years old. I have a 12 year old nephew. He won't play Mario games because they're "for girls", he prefers to play Gears of War 2 co-op with his older brother. He plays on the lowest difficulty and his older brother plays on insane. My point is, he's 12 years old and has likely been influenced by his older brother, who is probably the source of the whole "Nintendo is for girls" attitude. See the point is he's 12 years old and Nintendo has lost him, not because they failed to target him correctly, but because they failed to target his old brother many years before that. I think that goes to show that Nintendo's kiddy stuff from Miyamoto is on the way out.ElNinjaLoco

Anecdotes do not constitute as evidence. Maybe your brother doesn't like Mario, but there are about 8-9 million people who bought that game and disagree with you, myself included. Nintendo is also more popular than ever and attracting more new customers than Sony or Microsoft, so how are they failing?

Some of you guys are acting like every single game should be like Halo or Gears of War, and should have the most realistic graphics and plenty of blood, drugs, and sex. Do you seriously want that? I'm glad people like you are not making the decisions at Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft, because the gaming industry would be crashing right now.

Again, how is GOTY and the second highest rated game of all time downhill..?

System Wars, you baffle me with your logic sometimes.

yeah wii expanded the audience but does that mean that the industry is going forward?more casual gamers means more casual games and less hardcore or old school gamer games. nintendo is making games for everyone especially for little children,if i have children one day they will get to play on the nintendo platform first,why?,cause it will be simple and easy games...but its not for me,even the last zelda was kinda weak to its predessesors ,the only 2 games i enjoyed were galaxy and fire emblem,thats all .

so in the end miyamoto isnt keeping nintendo in the past ,you grow ...they keep their market stable throught the years.its nice that there is a console for starters out there,its not that you dont have alternatives buy a freaking 360 or a ps3 .....

I have a 12 year old nephew. He won't play Mario games because they're "for girls", he prefers to play Gears of War 2 co-op with his older brother. He plays on the lowest difficulty and his older brother plays on insane. ElNinjaLoco

I weep for your nephew. Thank god he isnt representative of the rest of the world (even though you try to pass this anectdotal evidence as such) and almost everyone else, including 12 year olds, are secure enough about their "manliness" to play Mario games and enjoy themselves on what will, years from now, become fond memories of happier times.

I'm seriosuly sorry for those kids who grow up forcing themselves on shaved-gorilla-oiled up-space-marine games to act older than they are. while cussing online to some other random douchy pre-teen pimple-face who acuses him of incest. I weep for you, you poor souls

[QUOTE="ElNinjaLoco"]I agree in general that Miyamoto is stuck in the past and that he continues to do little more than rehash old gameplay. I also believe that he's completely out of touch with today's market. I believe he thinks kids still watch Barny, and that all the adults who grew up on Nintendo are still 5 years old. I have a 12 year old nephew. He won't play Mario games because they're "for girls", he prefers to play Gears of War 2 co-op with his older brother. He plays on the lowest difficulty and his older brother plays on insane. My point is, he's 12 years old and has likely been influenced by his older brother, who is probably the source of the whole "Nintendo is for girls" attitude. See the point is he's 12 years old and Nintendo has lost him, not because they failed to target him correctly, but because they failed to target his old brother many years before that. I think that goes to show that Nintendo's kiddy stuff from Miyamoto is on the way out.shoryuken_

Anecdotes do not constitute as evidence. Maybe your brother doesn't like Mario, but there are about 8-9 million people who bought that game and disagree with you, myself included. Nintendo is also more popular than ever and attracting more new customers than Sony or Microsoft, so how are they failing?

Some of you guys are acting like every single game should be like Halo or Gears of War, and should have the most realistic graphics and plenty of blood, drugs, and sex. Do you seriously want that? I'm glad people like you are not making the decisions at Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft, because the gaming industry would be crashing right now.

I think that goes to show that Nintendo's kiddy stuff from Miyamoto is on the way out.ElNinjaLoco

Tell that to Nintendo's stockholders, LOL.

Where's a picture of a good facepalm when you need one?

[QUOTE="ElNinjaLoco"] I have a 12 year old nephew. He won't play Mario games because they're "for girls", he prefers to play Gears of War 2 co-op with his older brother. He plays on the lowest difficulty and his older brother plays on insane. Thunderdrone

I weep for your nephew. Thank god he isnt representative of the rest of the world (even though you try to pass this anectdotal evidence as such) and almost everyone else, including 12 year olds, are secure enough about their "manliness" to play Mario games and enjoy themselves on what will, years from now, become fond memories of happier times.

I'm seriosuly sorry for those kids who grow up forcing themselves on shaved-gorilla-oiled up-space-marine games to act older than they are. while cussing online to some other random douchy pre-teen pimple-face who acuses him of incest. I weep for you, you poor souls

[QUOTE="ElNinjaLoco"]I think that goes to show that Nintendo's kiddy stuff from Miyamoto is on the way out.dkrustyklown

Tell that to Nintendo's stockholders, LOL.

Where's a picture of a good facepalm when you need one?

When the words violent and mature are used in the same sentence concerning nintendo, I generally tend to ignore the rest. Fact is, if Miyamoto was not a benefit to nintendo, they would not keep him around. If nintendo is stuck in the past it is a choice as a company and not one man. Granted with the trends of gaming today, besides improved online I really don't mind being stuck in the past.

You mean the same stockholders who most likely crapped their pants during the Natal demonstration during this E3 and the subsequent Natal hype on TV, late night TV shows, morning shows and the news both print and online? I think those stockholders are a little less richer today, having to have purchased a new pair of pants.ElNinjaLoco

Really? Natal didn't even make a dent, no matter how much marketing Microsoft purchases. They didn't even announce any games for Natal, so what's your point? Talk about melodrama, ROFL! Nintendo stock has been riding out the economic downturn quite well, posting a nearly 140% return in the last 5 years. Nintendo's profits are steady and constant, which is just what long-term investors like to see.

Coincidentally, how's that whole, "profit" thing working out for the 360? A lot of microsoft investors are quite miffed about how much money Microsoft has poured into its console experiment. Sure, the project has been running in the black for a couple of month's now, but they'll need to keep that up for a VERY LONG TIME to make up for all the YEARS that the ink has been RED. You do know that Microsoft can't continue to pour money into the xbox project, no matter how great Bill Gates' coffers are, right? There are fair trade laws, after all. It's technically illegal for a company to dump product into the market at a loss for an extended period of time in order to gain marketshare. Sooner or later, they're going to have to show their investors that their product is a success, and so far, it's been nothing but a money sink. Investors will not tolerate such losses forever, and neither will the FTC.

People shouldn't worry about Miyamoto, he is just a face and basically don't do anything except putting his name on the big games.

It irritates me a little though that the real latest geniuses at Nintendo are barely recognised because Nintendo is too afraid to loose the Miyamoto brand. When was the last time you heard people talk about the real genius behind all 3D zelda games or the guy behind Super Mario Galaxy?

JLF1

So the man who had a hand in the development of the highest critically acclaimed exclusive this gen doesn't do anything? Get real. All sites around that game is raised.

I also believe that he's completely out of touch with today's market. ElNinjaLoco

It has to do with the fact that his sister plays Mario because it's easier to play than Gears of War 2.ElNinjaLoco

Do I detect a measure of gender bias in that statement?

Well, then, it's your niece for whom I feel sorry, not your nephew. She has to put up with siblings that think of her as something less than equal. That is a shame. Maybe you should do the right thing and teach BOTH your nephews about gender equality, and then you can all join the rest of us in the 21st century.

[QUOTE="ElNinjaLoco"]I agree in general that Miyamoto is stuck in the past and that he continues to do little more than rehash old gameplay. I also believe that he's completely out of touch with today's market. I believe he thinks kids still watch Barny, and that all the adults who grew up on Nintendo are still 5 years old. I have a 12 year old nephew. He won't play Mario games because they're "for girls", he prefers to play Gears of War 2 co-op with his older brother. He plays on the lowest difficulty and his older brother plays on insane. My point is, he's 12 years old and has likely been influenced by his older brother, who is probably the source of the whole "Nintendo is for girls" attitude. See the point is he's 12 years old and Nintendo has lost him, not because they failed to target him correctly, but because they failed to target his old brother many years before that. I think that goes to show that Nintendo's kiddy stuff from Miyamoto is on the way out.shoryuken_

Anecdotes do not constitute as evidence. Maybe your brother doesn't like Mario, but there are about 8-9 million people who bought that game and disagree with you, myself included. Nintendo is also more popular than ever and attracting more new customers than Sony or Microsoft, so how are they failing?

Some of you guys are acting like every single game should be like Halo or Gears of War, and should have the most realistic graphics and plenty of blood, drugs, and sex. Do you seriously want that? I'm glad people like you are not making the decisions at Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft, because the gaming industry would be crashing right now.

Yes, I enjoy those type of games. Just cite Grand Theft Auto as an example. A series which consistently manages to outsell even Nintendo's own first party games. Yes, the game is violent, but also very entertaining. It also has a huge fanbase that can't be denied. Oh yea, I forgot about the greatness that is Call of Duty (Modern warfare). What does the big N have that can counter the success of that franchise? Nothing I can think of.

Call of Duty/Grand Theft Auto/Blizzard titles > than Nintendo games.

[QUOTE="shoryuken_"]

[QUOTE="ElNinjaLoco"]I agree in general that Miyamoto is stuck in the past and that he continues to do little more than rehash old gameplay. I also believe that he's completely out of touch with today's market. I believe he thinks kids still watch Barny, and that all the adults who grew up on Nintendo are still 5 years old. I have a 12 year old nephew. He won't play Mario games because they're "for girls", he prefers to play Gears of War 2 co-op with his older brother. He plays on the lowest difficulty and his older brother plays on insane. My point is, he's 12 years old and has likely been influenced by his older brother, who is probably the source of the whole "Nintendo is for girls" attitude. See the point is he's 12 years old and Nintendo has lost him, not because they failed to target him correctly, but because they failed to target his old brother many years before that. I think that goes to show that Nintendo's kiddy stuff from Miyamoto is on the way out.ChiefFreeman

Anecdotes do not constitute as evidence. Maybe your brother doesn't like Mario, but there are about 8-9 million people who bought that game and disagree with you, myself included. Nintendo is also more popular than ever and attracting more new customers than Sony or Microsoft, so how are they failing?

Some of you guys are acting like every single game should be like Halo or Gears of War, and should have the most realistic graphics and plenty of blood, drugs, and sex. Do you seriously want that? I'm glad people like you are not making the decisions at Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft, because the gaming industry would be crashing right now.

Yes, I enjoy those type of games. Just cite Grand Theft Auto as an example. A series which consistently manages to outsell even Nintendo's own first party games. Yes, the game is violent, but also very entertaining. It also has a huge fanbase that can't be denied. Oh yea, I forgot about the greatness that is Call of Duty (Modern warfare). What does the big N have that can counter the success of that franchise? Nothing I can think of.

Call of Duty/Grand Theft Auto/Blizzard titles > than Nintendo games.

Lol, Wiifit outsold both those games. So did pokemon DS games, mario kart DS and Wii, nintendogs etc. And ironically, those games are marketed to everyone.

Yes, I enjoy those type of games. Just cite Grand Theft Auto as an example. A series which consistently manages to outsell even Nintendo's own first party games. Yes, the game is violent, but also very entertaining. It also has a huge fanbase that can't be denied. Oh yea, I forgot about the greatness that is Call of Duty (Modern warfare). What does the big N have that can counter the success of that franchise? Nothing I can think of.

Call of Duty/Grand Theft Auto/Blizzard titles > than Nintendo games.

ChiefFreeman

1. Wii Play (Wii - 22.98 million)[68]
2. Nintendogs (DS - 22.27 million, all five versions combined)[68]
3. Wii Fit (Wii - 21.82 million)[67]
4. Pokémon Red, Blue, and Green (Game Boy - 20.08 million approximately: 10.23 million in Japan,[44] 9.85 million in US)[19]
5. New Super Mario Bros. (DS - 18.45 million)[68]
6. Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES - 18 million)[105]
7. Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day! (DS - 17.41 million)[68]
8. Mario Kart Wii (Wii - 17.39 million)[67]
9. Pokémon Diamond and Pearl (DS - 16.81 million)[69]
10. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec (PS2 - 14.89 million shipped)[102]
11. Mario Kart DS (DS - 14.61 million)[68]
12. Pokémon Gold and Silver (Game Boy Color - 14.51 million approximately: 7.6 million in US,[19] 6.91 million in Japan)[44]
13. Super Mario Land (Game Boy - 14 million)[105]
14. Brain Age 2: More Training in Minutes a Day! (DS - 13.71 million)[68]
15. Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire (GBA - 13 million)[76]
16. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (PS2 - 12 million)[111]
17. Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen (GBA - 11.82 million)[69]
18. Super Mario 64 (N64 - 11 million)[105]
19. Gran Turismo (PS1 - 10.85 million shipped)[102][103]
20. Animal Crossing: Wild World (DS - 10.79 million),[69]

These are the top selling console games of all time (that weren't bundled like Wii Sports or Super Mario Bros. 1). I only see one GTA title. Most of these are Nintendo titles LOL. Also, about 10 of those Nintendo games are from this gen alone.

Zelda has violence. Just throwing that out there. I do see where you're coming from, but after your statement about the Wii's library, it isn't very respectable. Miyamoto is helping in bringing us four player Mario Bros, a new Galaxy, and Zelda Wii, so I can't really complain yet.

Yes, I enjoy those type of games. Just cite Grand Theft Auto as an example. A series which consistently manages to outsell even Nintendo's own first party games. Yes, the game is violent, but also very entertaining. It also has a huge fanbase that can't be denied. Oh yea, I forgot about the greatness that is Call of Duty (Modern warfare). What does the big N have that can counter the success of that franchise? Nothing I can think of.

Call of Duty/Grand Theft Auto/Blizzard titles > than Nintendo games.

ChiefFreeman

Actually, if you look at the top selling games of all time, you'll find that Nintendo published the top 10, so your position lacks a basis in reality.

The only thing that GTA has going for it is its shock value and appeal to prurient interests. A lot of folks love that and keep coming back for more, so I don't expect the franchise to go away. Shock factor won't captivate the bulk of the market for long, however, since eventually the shock wears away. There's only so many times that you can watch a streetwalker being beat to death with a baseball bat before it just doesn't seem that shocking anymore. It even starts to seem sophomoric after a while.

PURGE THE HERITIC

Well, I'm not sure if this has been said, but Miyamoto has stated himself he has interest creating mature games. So, that argument is thrown into the ground...

Q: Reggie mentioned the "Metroid" project. To what extent is Nintendo directly involved with that project or are you involved in that project, and are we going to see Nintendo develop its own adult-themed or more mature or violent games by itself?

A: (I am) not directly involved with "Metroid" project. (I) have had (my) hands in the mix up till now. But Nintendo, whenever any of our franchises are being developed by other teams, we're always involved in that basic planning stages, always involved in the direction or themes behind the game, and so that's true with this project as well.

(I) want to create all kinds of games. So, yes (I) would definitely love to - is interested in making mature games as well as the games that we traditionally make.

This was from an interview with TMCNET and Miyamoto. Link: http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=92104 and http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2009/08/05/4310136.htm

Either way, with games like Super Mario Galaxy, Miyamoto is moving the industry forward with games that utilize motion control well and with games that are fun to play for everyone.