Since when did releaseing an unfinished game on the PC become the standard?

Pretty ironic then that S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call of Pripyat shipped relatively bug free. organic_machine

I guess I'm upset because the status quo of PC games should be changing. Our standards are rising, we shouldn't accpet the fact that PC games need so many patches today to fix them up.

Wasdie

PC market is an afterthought. That's why.

Why do you think developers delay games on the PC when they are available on consoles too? To prevent piracy and get the PC users to switch. They dont want people to buy PC games and therefore they dont put any effort in developing a PC product.

Fizzman

Can't wait to pre-order Skyrim GOTY edtion on PC!

There is no way that im buying Skyrim this year Bethesda games don't even work at launch

[QUOTE="Fizzman"]

PC market is an afterthought. That's why.

Why do you think developers delay games on the PC when they are available on consoles too? To prevent piracy and get the PC users to switch. They dont want people to buy PC games and therefore they dont put any effort in developing a PC product.

The_Djoker

[QUOTE="The_Djoker"][QUOTE="Fizzman"]

PC market is an afterthought. That's why.

Why do you think developers delay games on the PC when they are available on consoles too? To prevent piracy and get the PC users to switch. They dont want people to buy PC games and therefore they dont put any effort in developing a PC product.

AdrianWerner

Since the ability to patch. It's affecting console games as well due to the ability to patch.

Who cares ? the developers put time and effort into the game and a lot of PC gamers turn around and mod content OUT of game as well, modify character models, maps etc. ... even the visuals.

rasengan2552

You made no sense...

Since the ability to patch. It's not affecting console games as well due to the ability to patch.KC_Hokie

Multiplating always leads to inferior games

Can't blame the devs who have trillions of different possible PC configurations they have to take into account.

...and people wonder why people like consoles so much :lol:

[QUOTE="BigBoss154"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

ARGH!!!!

Wasdie

All capitals is disruptive posting, Wasdie. :P

It's not disruptive when in context of the post.

HOWEVER IF I MADE AN ENTIRE POST LIKE THIS IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED DISRUPTIVE.

There is a difference :wink:

This :| is :D also :shock: considered :evil: disruptive :p.

As is this!!!!!!!!

Reported.

...

...Seriously though, I remember PC games were being patched on release 10+ years ago. To me, things aren't all that different - console games run pretty much perfectly, PC games don't.

Not that that's any excuse. After all this time, you would think it's about time developers bucked their ideas up a little.

This gen the PC has been getting the shaft. It seems that every major PC game release is either broken, buggy, incomplete, or has a lot of hardware issues. Let's just run down with a few that I can think of off the top of my head.

Crysis 1: Some broken AI, didn't run on half the machines, online was a broken laggy mess that never got fixed, lots of hardware problems. This was even a polished game by some of the standards this gen.

Empire Total War: Graphical glitches, sound glitches, AI glitches, map problems, hardware problems, install issues, DX runtime errors, couldn't finish a campaign, online was to broken to play for weeks.

MW2: IWnet didn't work, matchmaking sucked, glitches everywhere

CoD Black Ops: Terrible sever browser on launch, game crashes, DX runtime errors, sound issues, horrible framerate on modern hardware.

ArmA 2: Broken AI, terrible framerate, slow/clunky menus, terrible online connections, horrible latency issues, unfished/broken campaign that couldn't be finished.

Crysis 2: DX11 support delayed, hardware issues, software issues, HD texture pack delayed, no graphical settings (I had to write that damn app), terrible multiplayer latency. This was still a more polished game than others.

Red Orchestra 2: Framerate issues, crashes, latency, broken single player, stats didn't even work (had to do a wipe and restart), sound bugs, graphical bugs

Battlefield Bad Company 2: Slow as crap server browser, framerate issues early on, punkbuster disconnects everwhere, terrible hit detection (that only got minorly fixed), lots of reported crashes

Battleifeld 3: Framerate stuttering, latency, punkbuster disconnects, broken UI, broken squad system, BATTLELOG...

These are all the ones that came ot my head. What gives PC developers the right to released such broken games this gen? It's a plauge. I have played very few stable games on the PC this generation at launch. Patches should not be used to finish your game. This has been really annoying me this entire generation.

Please feel free to add your own.

Wasdie

Unfinished games have been around since the beginning. The difference is that we didn't have internet in the old days, hence no patching and no multiplayer problems. Hardware/Software also wasn't so complicated last time. We didn't have DirectX's which were so radically different from one another, which could make or break the game. We didn't have Crossfires or SLis. We didn't have video drivers coming out every month to boost performance by X%. AI wasn't so advanced last time, so poor AI was common, but due to technology. Finally, our standards were lower. We didn't scrutinized on things the way we do now.

But if you're wondering whether games used to ship unfinished? The answer is yes.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

This gen the PC has been getting the shaft. It seems that every major PC game release is either broken, buggy, incomplete, or has a lot of hardware issues. Let's just run down with a few that I can think of off the top of my head.

Crysis 1: Some broken AI, didn't run on half the machines, online was a broken laggy mess that never got fixed, lots of hardware problems. This was even a polished game by some of the standards this gen.

Empire Total War: Graphical glitches, sound glitches, AI glitches, map problems, hardware problems, install issues, DX runtime errors, couldn't finish a campaign, online was to broken to play for weeks.

MW2: IWnet didn't work, matchmaking sucked, glitches everywhere

CoD Black Ops: Terrible sever browser on launch, game crashes, DX runtime errors, sound issues, horrible framerate on modern hardware.

ArmA 2: Broken AI, terrible framerate, slow/clunky menus, terrible online connections, horrible latency issues, unfished/broken campaign that couldn't be finished.

Crysis 2: DX11 support delayed, hardware issues, software issues, HD texture pack delayed, no graphical settings (I had to write that damn app), terrible multiplayer latency. This was still a more polished game than others.

Red Orchestra 2: Framerate issues, crashes, latency, broken single player, stats didn't even work (had to do a wipe and restart), sound bugs, graphical bugs

Battlefield Bad Company 2: Slow as crap server browser, framerate issues early on, punkbuster disconnects everwhere, terrible hit detection (that only got minorly fixed), lots of reported crashes

Battleifeld 3: Framerate stuttering, latency, punkbuster disconnects, broken UI, broken squad system, BATTLELOG...

These are all the ones that came ot my head. What gives PC developers the right to released such broken games this gen? It's a plauge. I have played very few stable games on the PC this generation at launch. Patches should not be used to finish your game. This has been really annoying me this entire generation.

Please feel free to add your own.

jhcho2

Unfinished games have been around since the beginning. The difference is that we didn't have internet in the old days, hence no patching and no multiplayer problems. Hardware/Software also wasn't so complicated last time. We didn't have DirectX's which were so radically different from one another, which could make or break the game. We didn't have Crossfires or SLis. We didn't have video drivers coming out every month to boost performance by X%. AI wasn't so advanced last time, so poor AI was common, but due to technology. Finally, our standards were lower. We didn't scrutinized on things the way we do now.

But if you're wondering whether games used to ship unfinished? The answer is yes.

Rose colored glasses.

Anyone remember having to run dos in extended memory mode to get some games to work?

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Since the ability to patch. It's not affecting console games as well due to the ability to patch.lawlessx

I was going to make a thread about this, but this is not a new thing just very annoying at this stage especially with consoles around. The only game that hasn't given me issues are blizzard's games and valve's games. I mean right now, every single game I bought this year crashes randomly or has issues. Witcher 2, Deus Ex:HR and now battlefield 3. I tell you if not for DOTA 2 and Diablo I'd be totally done with PC gaming.

Add Shogun 2 to the list.

take me to a simpler time when games didnt need patched :P For example Rollercoaster tycoon's only patch was to fix a minor sound bug and didnt really cause a major problem best laugh is that was a 1 man dev team.

Anyone remember having to run dos in extended memory mode to get some games to work?topgunmv

Actually Expanded Mode is the mode most games used which sucked because they tended to stay on the first 640k of RAM rather than use the extra RAM in Extended Mode. Windows 3.1 and most other apps were fine in Extended Mode. Yup. I had my share of hair pulling trying to get enough Expanded RAM for my games back then. It started to change around 1994. But, what's the point when Win 95 was around the corner?

I saw the same problems on consoles as well, it's just the way this gen runs: Devs have a lot of pressure, marketing forces them to release the game before it's finished, devs try to patch it while it's printing / shipped / sold, that's also why we have so many day1 patches

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]Anyone remember having to run dos in extended memory mode to get some games to work?jun_aka_pekto

Actually Expanded Mode is the mode most games used which sucked because they tended to stay on the first 640k of RAM rather than use the extra RAM in Extended Mode. Windows 3.1 and most other apps were fine in Extended Mode. Yup. I had my share of hair pulling trying to get enough Expanded RAM for my games back then. It started to change around 1994. But, what's the point when Win 95 was around the corner?

I remember having to use it to run strike commander and ultima 8.

nothing new, its been like this for the last few years now

Its just not PC it is consoles too. BF3 online infrastructure is an absolute mess on the 36o.

kuu2

This. THere are some quality companies that release good finished games however. Such as blizzard, Valve on PC and Nintendo, Naughty Dog on consoles.

Rage, Oblivion, Alien V Predator 3.

I agree with ya, Wasdie. Lag-fest, stutter-butter, slideshow-bob, Battlefield 3 makes all your stats work go down the drain with the ever so consistent netcode-fail, match after match. I hate quiting because... that's ALSO in your stats now. Mine hovering around 8-9% because I had to quit because of laggy servers. Enemy players raping you because you lag while they're miraculously lag-free (although other players in chat are complaining of lag as well).

Makes you think wtf is going on. If Skyrim was out now, I would be playing that instead. Don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on BF3, I'm clearly making the point that BF3 is not polished in terms of the online connection. It needs a lot of work. Inb4 someone says, well, BC2 was a mess at launch. Well, this isn't BC2. Oh wait.. this is 2011...

Support flying wild hog then Hard Reset was an incredibly well polished and optimized game.

The answer is very simple, since GPUs and stunning graphics became a factor

Now most of the budgets go to making best graphics and there are so many GPUs with small differences to consider and to make compatible with that has increased complexity to an unbelievable degree

That is why i am into console gaming and never buy games on PC when i can get them on console, having just one hardware and a perfect driver to talk to makes all these problems go away mostly

PC gaming sucks...

Really, it could have been something much better, but has only gone downhill since consoles started to get attention.

The answer is very simple, since GPUs and stunning graphics became a factor

loosingENDS

[QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

The answer is very simple, since GPUs and stunning graphics became a factor

AdrianWerner

Actually we are saying the same thing, since graphics are now so much more demanding, a lot more goes to their polishing than gameplay and bug fixing

That is why gameplay has taken a back seat this generation too, it is not just bugs affected, it is also game quality in a much bigger extend

it's also why console games are generally more polished. They're on average a lot simplier than PC games and they have bigger budgets for bug testing.

AdrianWerner

I don't see how a FPS on a console is in any way simpler than one on PC.

Console games are more polished because they run on the same hardware they were developed on.

Polish also depends on the ease of use of dev tools.

Actually we are saying the same thing, since graphics are now so much more demanding, a lot more goes to their polishing than gameplay and bug fixing

loosingENDS

Except that teams have increased too. And it's not like the same people are working on everything. PC devs just love to cram as much features as possible, while console ones stick to few features, but ensure they make them work properly. It's different game design philosophy.

That is why gameplay has taken a back seat this generation too

loosingENDS

the ARMA series has always been buggy, look at Operation flash point, I remember playing maps over again multiple times just to make the AI move around instead of just sitting. Bugs have always been around. Battlefield 3 will be fixed, I personaly am not having any real issues with it other than the random CTD on certain servers, and lag. I also cant form a party to make a coop game but whatever, that stuff is small and will be fixed. for heaven sakes its 64 player multiplayer, they just need to optimize it and it will be fine.

just take a deep breath and relax, play it for the game it is right now, and the patches will come soon enough.

since pirate games ruled and updates live

since pirate games ruled and updates live

[QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

Actually we are saying the same thing, since graphics are now so much more demanding, a lot more goes to their polishing than gameplay and bug fixing

AdrianWerner

Except that teams have increased too. And it's not like the same people are working on everything. PC devs just love to cram as much features as possible, while console ones stick to few features, but ensure they make them work properly. It's different game design philosophy.

That is why gameplay has taken a back seat this generation too

loosingENDS

Frankly, the most hardcore and complex game i have played in years is Dark Souls, games like Oblivion, Mass Effect and Witcher seems very basic in design and depth comparing

PC gaming sucks...

Really, it could have been something much better, but has only gone downhill since consoles started to get attention.

GTAV2012

Frankly, the most hardcore and complex game i have played in years is Dark Souls, games like Oblivion, Mass Effect and Witcher seems very basic in design and depth comparing

loosingENDS