Something a little weird I noticed about 360s Graphical capabilities.

Ok, I know im gonna get flak for this, but hear me out.

Many have been questioning wether or not 360 is "Maxed Out" yet or if it can keep with with PS3s visuals for much longer, or if it even is right now?

Well, lets talk about the first part. I dont think weve hit the absolute wall with what 360 can do. Lord knows after seeing RAGE on 360, the 360 is still capable of looking better, and Gears of War 3 does look quite a bit better then Gears 2. So really, I can still see it evolve and do cool stuff going on in the comign years, how much more cool stuff is really up to developers.

Now to the second part. I think, for 360, its going to be able to continuely keep up with PS3, but maybe only in Multiplatform games. Obviously you have noticed that PS3 exclusive games usually look quite a bit better then 360 Exclusives, but the multiplatform field is a stark contrast to that, to where your lucky if the PS3 version is exactly the same as the 360 version. And yes, im aware that Alan wake has gorgeous enviorments, but overall, its not as visually impressive as Uncharted 2 or God of War 3. I think Gears 3 is going to be the closest to the visual quality that say a Uncharted 2 is, but that game is coming in 2011, Uncharted 2 came out in 2009. Meaning by the time Gears 3 comes out, PS3 will probaly have a game taht looks better then it out before Gears 3 even comes out.

So I have my doubts that the 360 can keep up with PS3s visuals for Exclusives, since with Exclusives Devs can use everything the PS3s got. But I still think itll keep up with it in multiplatform, which many can argue might be more improtant since thats what 80 percent or more of our games today are. And yes, im aware that Alan wake has gorgeous enviorments, but overall, its not as visually impressive as Uncharted 2 or God of War 3. I think Gears 3 is going to be the closest to the visual quality that say a Uncharted 2 is, but that game is coming in 2011, Uncharted 2 came out in 2009. Meaning by the time Gears 3 comes out, PS3 will probaly have a game taht looks better then it out before Gears 3 even comes out.

And untill theirs some Paradigm shift in development of Multiplatform, I dont know if I can see this changing.

I don't think it's much of an accomplishment to "keep" up in the multiplatform field. For one, they aren't really keeping up as much as devs are toning things down to the lowest common denominator. And I think it is still a greatly exaggerated myth that "you lucky if the PS3 version is exactly the same as the 360 version". I think for the most part most games ARE identical on both systems or have different pros and cons. I think in 06 and 07 that argument was true but now things have changed a lot and the majority of mutliplats are no different on either system.Javy03

When I say the same, I mean THE EXACT same. im talking same color contrasts, texture quality, aliasing and what not. IE nothing the average dude will probaly care about. But if I have both consoles, why wouldnt i want the better version in any way I can? Go to comparison sites liek Digital Foundry,a dn youll see 360 still usually gets the nod somehow. The main thing that bothers me about PS3 versions of multipalts is lack of aliasing and the color contrasts. Usually, 360 version fo the games have AA and more vibrant colors then PS3 versions of games, which will either have no AA at all or are not as vibrant adn colorful as the 360 version.

I don't think it's much of an accomplishment to "keep" up in the multiplatform field. For one, they aren't really keeping up as much as devs are toning things down to the lowest common denominator. And I think it is still a greatly exaggerated myth that "you lucky if the PS3 version is exactly the same as the 360 version". I think for the most part most games ARE identical on both systems or have different pros and cons. I think in 06 and 07 that argument was true but now things have changed a lot and the majority of mutliplats are no different on either system.Javy03

The PS2 never dragged down the xbox.

The PS1 never dragged down the N64.

Consoles don't drag down the PC. What is it about the PS3 which makes it so much more powerful yet at the same time makes developers completely unwilling to take advantage of it? Excuses, perhaps?

When you look at the 360 "exclusives" and you look at the ps3 exclusives, the ps3 exclusives look better. i mean gears of war has some of the worst graphics ive ever seen. it mostly has to do with blu-ray which hold a crapload of more data.

This was apparent a year even before the PS3 came out. Simply based on the PS3's architecture, you can see how its more powerful, but it took much more work to harness that power. Multiplat development requires too many resources spread over multipler platforms. Its hard to justify the costs to spend additional time and resources into tailoring the game to one platform's strength. So long as they reach close to parity, publishers are happy. Sadly, this is one of the main reasons that the PC version of games get shafted as they have the potential for so much more.

But more on-topic: Youre observation isnt something weird. It is and was always apparent.

As exclusives on each platform become more and more refined, the PS3 will vault ahead of the 360 simply because it has a higher theoretical maximum capability.

When you look at the 360 "exclusives" and you look at the ps3 exclusives, the ps3 exclusives look better. i mean gears of war has some of the worst graphics ive ever seen. it mostly has to do with blu-ray which hold a crapload of more data.

GramDubs

Answer?Stupid MS.I mean shown footages of Crysis 2 and RAGE look to be pushing the new boundaries of console graphics and they are 3rd party.MS simply does not have the kind of 1st party Sony has,Ive been saying this for looong loooong time.It seems they finally got it,Gears 3 looks delicious and is 1st party but it seems that they made partners with Crytek for exclusive.

When you look at the 360 "exclusives" and you look at the ps3 exclusives, the ps3 exclusives look better. i mean gears of war has some of the worst graphics ive ever seen. it mostly has to do with blu-ray which hold a crapload of more data.

GramDubs

GeOW's graphics are fine. Blu-ray has nothing to do with the PS3's graphical capabilities.

When you look at the 360 "exclusives" and you look at the ps3 exclusives, the ps3 exclusives look better. i mean gears of war has some of the worst graphics ive ever seen. it mostly has to do with blu-ray which hold a crapload of more data.

GramDubs

You only had the need to create this thread because 360 graphic capabilities are pretty underhyped on these boards. Its just as capable as PS3 but it ppl never believed in it. at the end, the underhype is positive since it makes the wow factor even bigger when we see a game like Rage, gears3 or Crysis2 running on it ;)

You only had the need to create this thread because 360 graphic capabilities are pretty underhyped on these boards. Its just as capable as PS3 but it ppl never believed in it. at the end, the underhype is positive since it makes the wow factor even bigger when we see a game like Rage, gears3 or Crysis2 running on it ;)

PAL360

No, the 360s graphical capabilities are underhyped because, on average, 360 Exclusives dont look as good as PS3 Exclusives.

[QUOTE="PAL360"]

You only had the need to create this thread because 360 graphic capabilities are pretty underhyped on these boards. Its just as capable as PS3 but it ppl never believed in it. at the end, the underhype is positive since it makes the wow factor even bigger when we see a game like Rage, gears3 or Crysis2 running on it ;)

XboximusPrime

No, the 360s graphical capabilities are underhyped because, on average, 360 Exclusives dont look as good as PS3 Exclusives.

Yes but nobody cant deny how good Crysis 2 and RAGE look.

[QUOTE="PAL360"]

You only had the need to create this thread because 360 graphic capabilities are pretty underhyped on these boards. Its just as capable as PS3 but it ppl never believed in it. at the end, the underhype is positive since it makes the wow factor even bigger when we see a game like Rage, gears3 or Crysis2 running on it ;)

XboximusPrime

No, the 360s graphical capabilities are underhyped because, on average, 360 Exclusives dont look as good as PS3 Exclusives.

Still many games this E3 proved that the diference in exclusives is not more than a design choice.

[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

[QUOTE="PAL360"]

You only had the need to create this thread because 360 graphic capabilities are pretty underhyped on these boards. Its just as capable as PS3 but it ppl never believed in it. at the end, the underhype is positive since it makes the wow factor even bigger when we see a game like Rage, gears3 or Crysis2 running on it ;)

Bus-A-Bus

No, the 360s graphical capabilities are underhyped because, on average, 360 Exclusives dont look as good as PS3 Exclusives.

Yes but nobody cant deny how good Crysis 2 and RAGE look.

Yup, they look great on 360. now im curious how they look on PS3, since their multiplatform. If they end up better on PS3, thatll maybe say something. But, they would still look really great on 360.

The reason the ps3 can handle better graphics lies in the CELL processor. While both the consoles have about the same level graphics card, the CELL isn't limiting to standard processing tasks. It can run graphics processes as well which means that even when the GC gets maxed, you can still offload some to the processor.

As to why multiplats normally look better on the 360, it tends to be the fault of the porter. It is a lot easier for devs to make a 360 game and port it to PS3 than vice versa. Sometimes stuff gets lost in translation. Better multiplat graphics =/= the better console power.

You mentioned how stuff like C2 and Rage look amazing on 360 too. Again, this comes down to the devs. 1st party MS devs just don't seem to know how to use the 360 hardware as well as first party PS3 devs. Alan Wake looks great but KZ2, U2 and GOW3 look just as good if not better. Not to mention they had significantly shorter development times.

[QUOTE="Bus-A-Bus"]

[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

No, the 360s graphical capabilities are underhyped because, on average, 360 Exclusives dont look as good as PS3 Exclusives.

XboximusPrime

Yes but nobody cant deny how good Crysis 2 and RAGE look.

Yup, they look great on 360. now im curious how they look on PS3, since their multiplatform. If they end up better on PS3, thatll maybe say something. But, they would still look really great on 360.

And what happens if they end up looking better on 360? Will that say something aswell?

[QUOTE="Bus-A-Bus"]

[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

No, the 360s graphical capabilities are underhyped because, on average, 360 Exclusives dont look as good as PS3 Exclusives.

XboximusPrime

Yes but nobody cant deny how good Crysis 2 and RAGE look.

Yup, they look great on 360. now im curious how they look on PS3, since their multiplatform. If they end up better on PS3, thatll maybe say something. But, they would still look really great on 360.

Yea but that changes NOTHING.If game is bit better on one system it does not change the fact that those two games equal Sonys exclusives.I remember people saying that 360 simply is not powerful enough for 200+ lightsources on screen like KZ3,i told them GTAIV has as many but they said its not the same.This time Crysis 2 has pretty big number of lightsources,maybe even bigger which means its indeed impressive.Anyway...i would not bet there will be much difference between platforms.

[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

[QUOTE="Bus-A-Bus"]

Yes but nobody cant deny how good Crysis 2 and RAGE look.

PAL360

Yup, they look great on 360. now im curious how they look on PS3, since their multiplatform. If they end up better on PS3, thatll maybe say something. But, they would still look really great on 360.

And what happens if they end up looking better on 360? Will that say something aswell?

I dont know if itll say as much because 360 games have a long history of being better on 360. So if it looks better on 360, itll be like "well, thats to be expected for multiplatform" but anytime a PS3 version of a game is legitematly better on PS3, its huge news because it dosent happen much. I know thats a flip floppy answer, but it makes sense.

The reason the ps3 can handle better graphics lies in the CELL processor. While both the consoles have about the same level graphics card, the CELL isn't limiting to standard processing tasks. It can run graphics processes as well which means that even when the GC gets maxed, you can still offload some to the processor.

As to why multiplats normally look better on the 360, it tends to be the fault of the porter. It is a lot easier for devs to make a 360 game and port it to PS3 than vice versa. Sometimes stuff gets lost in translation. Better multiplat graphics =/= the better console power.

You mentioned how stuff like C2 and Rage look amazing on 360 too. Again, this comes down to the devs. 1st party MS devs just don't seem to know how to use the 360 hardware as well as first party PS3 devs. Alan Wake looks great but KZ2, U2 and GOW3 look just as good if not better. Not to mention they had significantly shorter development times.

yoda4ps3

CPU is NEVER,and i mean NEVER the reason why you will have framerate problems,its Gpu and memory to some extent.The good thing about Cell is it is very good at some things RSX sucks at such as vertex and post processing so Cell helps it with that but Xenos is fine on its own doing that,and plus,it has eDRAM for transparencies.

Systems are fairly equal as was shown by Crysis 2 and RAGE.

Honestly, i think its going to come down to Dev using 360 focused engine on 360 and theyre ability to get teh most out of it. Alot fo 360s stuff is Multiplatform engine stuff. where as PS3s stuff is mostly tailored to PS3 engines. adn the other thing might be disc space issues on 360, but thas for another day.

How can you prove that one looks better than the other, save for your subjective opinion and screen shot spamming of said games? If looks are subjective then Kid Icarus looks better than Crysis 2 graphically.Vadamee

Taste is subjective. Polygon count, texture resolution, frame rate, objects, and programmable floating point operations per second are quantifable and not subjective. Crysis 2 has far more of each of those categories.

meh, i'm not that picky about how games on 5 year old consoles look. if i was worried about that stuff i would upgrade my pc.

at this point going on about graphics is pretty silly. it's like talking about processing power of a 5 year old pc, or how that shirt i loved 5 years ago looks lame now or howpeople thought 5 years ago that512 woud be plenty of space for an ipod.

[QUOTE="PAL360"]

[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

Yup, they look great on 360. now im curious how they look on PS3, since their multiplatform. If they end up better on PS3, thatll maybe say something. But, they would still look really great on 360.

XboximusPrime

And what happens if they end up looking better on 360? Will that say something aswell?

I dont know if itll say as much because 360 games have a long history of being better on 360. So if it looks better on 360, itll be like "well, thats to be expected for multiplatform" but anytime a PS3 version of a game is legitematly better on PS3, its huge news because it dosent happen much. I know thats a flip floppy answer, but it makes sense.

thats was actually a logic answer!

Many guys here would say just `lazy devs`:P

[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

[QUOTE="PAL360"]

And what happens if they end up looking better on 360? Will that say something aswell?

PAL360

I dont know if itll say as much because 360 games have a long history of being better on 360. So if it looks better on 360, itll be like "well, thats to be expected for multiplatform" but anytime a PS3 version of a game is legitematly better on PS3, its huge news because it dosent happen much. I know thats a flip floppy answer, but it makes sense.

thats was actually a logic answer!

Many guys here would say just `lazy devs`:P

It could be that Devs simply arent taking the steps to get the most out of the 360 hardware. Like I said, alot of 360s Exclsuviesrely on engine likeUE3 and stuff like taht which are multiplatform engines. So, maybe if devs started using 360 catered engines for thei rExclusives, maybe wed see better results. But as it is right now, its not happening. Ive also struggled over theyears trying to decide which syestem to get my Multiplatform games on. I know they usually end up a bit better on 360, but I would be lying if I said I didnt like my PS3 maybe a bit better.

[QUOTE="Vadamee"]How can you prove that one looks better than the other, save for your subjective opinion and screen shot spamming of said games? If looks are subjective then Kid Icarus looks better than Crysis 2 graphically.XaosII

Taste is subjective. Polygon count, texture resolution, frame rate, objects, and programmable floating point operations per second are quantifable and not subjective. Crysis 2 has far more of each of those categories.

Right... But 'looks' doesn't imply polygon count, texture resolution, frame rate, objects, or floating point operations per second.

The terms can be mutually exclusive and often are when used. Especially in this case since we lack the technical knowledge to decipher these games. If you were to ask an infant which game looks better, between Kirbyland Adventures or Crysis, they will choose the former without consideration for all that technically jargon.

My point is, there is almost no visual parity between the two. If PS3 was so much superior to the 360 then we would see games that look head and shoulders above what we've seen on either console.

And herein lies the paradox: The PC is more powerful than both consoles and it has the multi-platform games to prove it: Higher refresh rates, higher IQ, Higher resolution, Higher Anistrophic filtering, and Higher Anti-Aliasing. The PS3 is more powerful than the 360 but most multi-platform games look and perform worse? PS3 has a higher theoretical performance as per FLOPS, but FLOPS is assuming 100% efficiency in perfect conditions. Its utterly useless in gaming.

"PS3 exclusives look better than 360 exclusives and 99% of PC exclusives save Crysis"

Prove it.

[QUOTE="Javy03"]I don't think it's much of an accomplishment to "keep" up in the multiplatform field. For one, they aren't really keeping up as much as devs are toning things down to the lowest common denominator. And I think it is still a greatly exaggerated myth that "you lucky if the PS3 version is exactly the same as the 360 version". I think for the most part most games ARE identical on both systems or have different pros and cons. I think in 06 and 07 that argument was true but now things have changed a lot and the majority of mutliplats are no different on either system.Ninja-Hippo

The PS2 never dragged down the xbox.

The PS1 never dragged down the N64.

Consoles don't drag down the PC. What is it about the PS3 which makes it so much more powerful yet at the same time makes developers completely unwilling to take advantage of it? Excuses, perhaps?

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]

[QUOTE="Javy03"]I don't think it's much of an accomplishment to "keep" up in the multiplatform field. For one, they aren't really keeping up as much as devs are toning things down to the lowest common denominator. And I think it is still a greatly exaggerated myth that "you lucky if the PS3 version is exactly the same as the 360 version". I think for the most part most games ARE identical on both systems or have different pros and cons. I think in 06 and 07 that argument was true but now things have changed a lot and the majority of mutliplats are no different on either system.SaltyMeatballs

The PS2 never dragged down the xbox.

The PS1 never dragged down the N64.

Consoles don't drag down the PC. What is it about the PS3 which makes it so much more powerful yet at the same time makes developers completely unwilling to take advantage of it? Excuses, perhaps?

I dont think think Cell is complete **** Just look at PS3s Exclusives. I agree that alot of it was PR hype, but theres gotta be something speacil under that hood to get visuals like that.

The reason the ps3 can handle better graphics lies in the CELL processor. While both the consoles have about the same level graphics card, the CELL isn't limiting to standard processing tasks. It can run graphics processes as well which means that even when the GC gets maxed, you can still offload some to the processor.

As to why multiplats normally look better on the 360, it tends to be the fault of the porter. It is a lot easier for devs to make a 360 game and port it to PS3 than vice versa. Sometimes stuff gets lost in translation. Better multiplat graphics =/= the better console power.

You mentioned how stuff like C2 and Rage look amazing on 360 too. Again, this comes down to the devs. 1st party MS devs just don't seem to know how to use the 360 hardware as well as first party PS3 devs. Alan Wake looks great but KZ2, U2 and GOW3 look just as good if not better. Not to mention they had significantly shorter development times.

yoda4ps3

NVIDIA RSX and ATI Xenos are not the same e.g.

1. RSX doesn't have NV/ATI DX10's and ATI Xenos's "3Dc+" compression texture format.

2. RSX doesn't have decoupled shader and texture unit design i.e. Geforce 7/RSX's pixel shaders stalls during texture fetch operations.

3. RSX doesn't have unified shaders design.

On Xbox 360 vs PS3, David Shippy's statement factors in "The GPU is highly sophisticated in the Xbox 360".

Readhttp://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3904/processing_the_truth_an_interview_.php?page=3

"With the Xbox 360, you've got more of a traditional multi-core system, and you've got three PowerPC cores, each of them having dual threads -- so you've got six threads running there, at least in the CPU. Six threads in Xbox 360, and eight or nine threads in the PS3 -- but then you've got to factor in the GPU," Shippy explains. "The GPU is highly sophisticated in the Xbox 360." He concludes: "At the end of the day, when you put them all together, depending on the software, I think they're pretty equal, even though they're completely different processing models."

One word.

TEHCELL

That doesnt mean much if the best PS3 exclusives still look better than the best multiplats.

But i agree on the first part. The 360 is no way near maxed out and its pretty obvious as we see games looking better each year (exclusive or multi). Truth is, no system is ever maxed out since gens are always cut short.

I bet if the original xbox had another 2-3 years on the market (instead of the pitiful 4 it had overall), it would have been able to keep up with the 360/PS3 in the early years, just look at the cancelled Dead Rising for proof. The Wii is probably the only system in history that has the potential to get maxed out since we started at 50%. Ok il stop there, getting a little off-topic :P

[QUOTE="GramDubs"]

When you look at the 360 "exclusives" and you look at the ps3 exclusives, the ps3 exclusives look better. i mean gears of war has some of the worst graphics ive ever seen. it mostly has to do with blu-ray which hold a crapload of more data.

SpiritOfFire117

[QUOTE="SpiritOfFire117"]

[QUOTE="GramDubs"]

When you look at the 360 "exclusives" and you look at the ps3 exclusives, the ps3 exclusives look better. i mean gears of war has some of the worst graphics ive ever seen. it mostly has to do with blu-ray which hold a crapload of more data.

rickatick