Sony and Innovative Games

Online gaming on consoles has been around since the sega saturn ... its no innovation. ceruxx

exactly, some minor improvements of an online service isn't really innovation.

Online gaming on consoles has been around since the sega saturn ... its no innovation. ceruxx

Online gaming on consoles has been around since the sega saturn ... its no innovation. ceruxx

online for consoles has been around since atari days, and if XBL is not an inovation then neither are all of the games mentioned in the OP

Really? Atari? o_o; I can't even imagine it.

Really? Atari? o_o; I can't even imagine it.

ceruxx

the intellivision had it (or was it the colecovision?)

anyway XBL is an inovation, what you said it's like saying LBP is not inovative because lode runner for the NES had a level editor

[QUOTE="ceruxx"]Online gaming on consoles has been around since the sega saturn ... its no innovation. st1ka

online for consoles has been around since atari days, and if XBL is not an inovation then neither are all of the games mentioned in the OP

I think we can give MS the "made online better" on consoles prize, but not for online so to speak, online would have been here this gen that was a given. But imo charging for it just takes away the merit, I'm not paying to play the games I already payed for online. If someone offered me a 360 I'd prolly pay for live, but that's cause I wouldn't really have a choice.

again you are right i agree 100%.

at the same time ms should really be doing something with their own inhouse game studio. because third party games gets you only so far. without your own established first party exclusives to support you in case all major third party games go multiplat, standing on your own will be very difficult.

which is why i think ms needs to stop with the 'buying every exlcusive off sony' and actually create its own games.

im not bashing but you have to admit there money has allowed them to get far and in the position they are in. is good on them but is not good for the overall gaming market because they keeping the market in a stationary position with tried and tested generic games releasing one after the other with only a handful of developers taking the step forward to do something different.

nintendo ias doing their own thing and i think they have done a good job with the casual market. but they need to really bring some more hardcore games soon in order to stand up to the many great games lined up for 08-09 for ms and sony.

superjim42

We're stuck with develpoers like valve (portal) and Peter Molyneux (Black & White) dong new and interesting things, and to be honest I have more faith in them pulling it off.

[QUOTE="st1ka"]

[QUOTE="ceruxx"]Online gaming on consoles has been around since the sega saturn ... its no innovation. Eddie-Vedder

online for consoles has been around since atari days, and if XBL is not an inovation then neither are all of the games mentioned in the OP

I think we can give MS the "made online better" on consoles prize, but not for online so to speak, online would have been here this gen that was a given. But imo charging for it just takes away the merit, I'm not paying to play the games I already payed for online. If someone offered me a 360 I'd prolly pay for live, but that's cause I wouldn't really have a choice.

i never said MS created online for consoles, however it's improvements over previous iterations ARE inovations

[QUOTE="knight-k"][QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"][QUOTE="knight-k"]

Agree, but the company with zero innovation is the MS.

Really wtf did they introduce this gen? (Except for buying games, paying for online (=rip-off) and RROD?)

st1ka

OH MY GOD! you mean I dont have to pay for any thing on the ps3 or wii? you mean games are free, online is free, content online is free? oh my god! heres something innovative they did...actual good games that gamers like.

I'm just saying the truth, MS=ZERO innovation.

And nintendo = 100% inovation

[QUOTE="superjim42"]

again you are right i agree 100%.

at the same time ms should really be doing something with their own inhouse game studio. because third party games gets you only so far. without your own established first party exclusives to support you in case all major third party games go multiplat, standing on your own will be very difficult.

which is why i think ms needs to stop with the 'buying every exlcusive off sony' and actually create its own games.

im not bashing but you have to admit there money has allowed them to get far and in the position they are in. is good on them but is not good for the overall gaming market because they keeping the market in a stationary position with tried and tested generic games releasing one after the other with only a handful of developers taking the step forward to do something different.

nintendo ias doing their own thing and i think they have done a good job with the casual market. but they need to really bring some more hardcore games soon in order to stand up to the many great games lined up for 08-09 for ms and sony.

the1stmoonfly

We're stuck with develpoers like valve (portal) and Peter Molyneux (Black & White) dong new and interesting things, and to be honest I have more faith in them pulling it off.

as much as i love valve games they are being a$$es towards ps3 lol i would like to play a good port of their games on my ps3 and not something ea made because its not the same.

peter molyneux yes i loved black and white and fable 1 for pc great games. i hope fable 2 comes to pc also!

but ye i guess ms has done the whole pc experience on the console thing cos i like their new dashboard reminds me of windows vista! good on them i guess. but need to see more games from them rather than just buying everythign under the sun!

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="knight-k"][QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"][QUOTE="knight-k"]

Agree, but the company with zero innovation is the MS.

Really wtf did they introduce this gen? (Except for buying games, paying for online (=rip-off) and RROD?)

Ace132

OH MY GOD! you mean I dont have to pay for any thing on the ps3 or wii? you mean games are free, online is free, content online is free? oh my god! heres something innovative they did...actual good games that gamers like.

I'm just saying the truth, MS=ZERO innovation.

And nintendo = 100% inovation

next time read the entire topic before answering will you?

Well the biggest issue is that the majority of the developers don't have the talent to create an innovative game, and those that do tend to stick to the PC (since they don't have to worry about hardware limitations). Specifically with the PS3 though, I think the problem is the hardware and how much harder it is to develop for the PS3 (compared to the 360, Wii or PC). It's hard enough to get funding for innovative games at the best of times (see: Tim Schafer), so when you combine that with the PS3's nasty habit of making programmers re-invent the wheel (so to speak) it's hard to get a publisher to green-light innovative games.PBSnipes

good point but not quite.

ps3 has released the most innovative games this gen. patapon, locoroco, echochrome, pixeljunk, and soon little big planet.

How is uneducated? Its true isn't it? There was SEGA NET or whatever it was called in Japan, and then there was dial up on the dreamcast ... with a broadband add on. ceruxx

It may not be a completly new idea, but XBL was an innovation that everyone followed suit with. You might argue it was steam etc that did it first and MS copied but they were still the first ones to take the plunge and do it on a console, and at considerable cost.

I think Sony is doing a great job at releasing fantastic PSN titles, closely followed by some XBL titles. The Wii has failed to impress me so far, the promisses of the Wii mote acting as a sword all falled down as the Hildenburg and burned. There hasnt been a single new IP in the Wii thats not casual that has interested me.

Yet, at the same time, neither do the PSN/XBL games, but at least they are trying, and the games are cheaper :D. Echocrome, Geo Wars, Flow and everyday shooter come to mind.

[QUOTE="ceruxx"]How is uneducated? Its true isn't it? There was SEGA NET or whatever it was called in Japan, and then there was dial up on the dreamcast ... with a broadband add on. the1stmoonfly

[QUOTE="knight-k"]

I don't think online gaming is a real innovationst1ka

I meant that online gaming on consoles alone isn't innovation. ceruxx

then do you agree that LBP is not inovative?

Umm I could be wrong, but I think Pixeljunk and LBP are not being developed by first party Sony studios. They're being published by Sony right?...

I think LBP is innovative because of the physics + level creation aspect. ceruxx

level creation has been on PC's for a long time now, has for the physics, if that is what makes a game inovative then were talking about the wrong game here

[QUOTE="ceruxx"]I think LBP is innovative because of the physics + level creation aspect. st1ka

level creation has been on PC's for a long time now, has for the physics, if that is what makes a game inovative then were talking about the wrong game here

LBP is diferent though, it doesn't feature a level creator, it is a level creator. All those games with level editores normally were only touched by modders, they weren't really a key aspect of the games, LBP is taking the concept a step further, thus the innovation.

But the games with level creation weren't exactly like little big planet either. Its not just the fact that it has level creation, its how the game is played. ceruxx

a platformer with a level creator? like lode runner then?

[QUOTE="st1ka"]

[QUOTE="ceruxx"]I think LBP is innovative because of the physics + level creation aspect. Eddie-Vedder

level creation has been on PC's for a long time now, has for the physics, if that is what makes a game inovative then were talking about the wrong game here

LBP is diferent though, it doesn't feature a level creator, it is a level creator. All those games with level editores normally were only touched by modders, they weren't really a key aspect of the games, LBP is taking the concept a step further, thus the innovation.

bingo, the same applies to XBL, now you see where i was aiming at?

[QUOTE="ceruxx"]I think LBP is innovative because of the physics + level creation aspect. st1ka

level creation has been on PC's for a long time now, has for the physics, if that is what makes a game inovative then were talking about the wrong game here

But not on consoles. Online was introduced heavily by MS, making them innovate in that area. In the same fashion, LBP is doing what MS did.

[QUOTE="st1ka"]

[QUOTE="ceruxx"]I think LBP is innovative because of the physics + level creation aspect. kenshinhimura16

level creation has been on PC's for a long time now, has for the physics, if that is what makes a game inovative then were talking about the wrong game here

But not on consoles. Online was introduced heavily by MS, making them innovate in that area. In the same fashion, LBP is doing what MS did.

i agree with you, however cerux believes that XBL is not inovative while LBP is

i was just trying to apply his logic to said case

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"][QUOTE="st1ka"]

[QUOTE="ceruxx"]I think LBP is innovative because of the physics + level creation aspect. st1ka

level creation has been on PC's for a long time now, has for the physics, if that is what makes a game inovative then were talking about the wrong game here

LBP is diferent though, it doesn't feature a level creator, it is a level creator. All those games with level editores normally were only touched by modders, they weren't really a key aspect of the games, LBP is taking the concept a step further, thus the innovation.

bingo, the same applies to XBL, now you see where i was aiming at?

Agree, but there's something that's wrong with the innovation of XBL.

PAYING FOR ONLINE, that's also an innovation of MS.

[QUOTE="Swift_Boss_A"]The biggest innovative game wont come from the Nintendo, it will come from Team Ico :)superjim42

yup. ico and sotc are benchmarks for innovative games, but spore looks to highten that bar further. letsee what team ico come up with this time

Team ICO hell yeahhh

Agree, but there's something that's wrong with the innovation of XBL.

PAYING FOR ONLINE, that's also an innovation of MS.

knight-k

actually no, sega, nintendo and mattell all charged for their online services, Microsoft is hardly the first

And so did sony with the PS2

Don't see any innovation from Sony. LBP is essentially a console title that you can Mod. Modding of course has been in PC games forever. It's not something new nor innovative. Frankly, none of the three are innovative in any way really.

Only reall innovative title that i've seen in awhile is Spore on the PC. I could argue that titles like Crysis innovate just based on the fact that you can mod your weapons no matter where you are. Never has that been done in a shooter before. But, a game of nothing but innovation? That goes to Spore for the PC, easily. Game is just oozing with innovation.

as much as i love valve games they are being a$$es towards ps3 lol i would like to play a good port of their games on my ps3 and not something ea made because its not the same.

peter molyneux yes i loved black and white and fable 1 for pc great games. i hope fable 2 comes to pc also!

but ye i guess ms has done the whole pc experience on the console thing cos i like their new dashboard reminds me of windows vista! good on them i guess. but need to see more games from them rather than just buying everythign under the sun!

superjim42

[QUOTE="knight-k"]

Agree, but there's something that's wrong with the innovation of XBL.

PAYING FOR ONLINE, that's also an innovation of MS.

st1ka

actually no, sega, nintendo and mattell all charged for their online services, Microsoft is hardly the first

And so did sony with the PS2

Ok but Sony learned that wasn't right. PS3 has free online now...BUT MS is still ripping off 360 owners. SO imo it's a sucky innovation.

[QUOTE="knight-k"]

Agree, but there's something that's wrong with the innovation of XBL.

PAYING FOR ONLINE, that's also an innovation of MS.

st1ka

actually no, sega, nintendo and mattell all charged for their online services, Microsoft is hardly the first

And so did sony with the PS2

yes but PC, Wii, DS, PSP and PS3 are free. MS should keep extra content as benefits for paid subscribers, and give online to all the users. Paying for online is a way of milking users.

[QUOTE="kenshinhimura16"][QUOTE="st1ka"]

[QUOTE="ceruxx"]I think LBP is innovative because of the physics + level creation aspect. st1ka

level creation has been on PC's for a long time now, has for the physics, if that is what makes a game inovative then were talking about the wrong game here

But not on consoles. Online was introduced heavily by MS, making them innovate in that area. In the same fashion, LBP is doing what MS did.

i agree with you, however cerux believes that XBL is not inovative while LBP is

i was just trying to apply his logic to said case

Woah woah woah, I never said XBL is not innovation, I said that internet on consoles in general is not innovation.

Little Big Planet = Unmatched innovation thus far

AgentA-Mi6

There's spore. And it's coming out sooner.

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="knight-k"]

Agree, but there's something that's wrong with the innovation of XBL.

PAYING FOR ONLINE, that's also an innovation of MS.

knight-k

actually no, sega, nintendo and mattell all charged for their online services, Microsoft is hardly the first

And so did sony with the PS2

Ok but Sony learned that wasn't right. PS3 has free online now...BUT MS is still ripping off 360 owners. SO imo it's a sucky innovation.

hardly. A company doesn't act based on what it's "right" they simply prefer to let third partys to pay for the online themselves as a result many PS2 and PSP games have lost their online services while you can still play the original xbox games on XBL

it's based on your internal policy not on what is "right" and "wrong"

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="kenshinhimura16"][QUOTE="st1ka"]

[QUOTE="ceruxx"]I think LBP is innovative because of the physics + level creation aspect. ceruxx

level creation has been on PC's for a long time now, has for the physics, if that is what makes a game inovative then were talking about the wrong game here

But not on consoles. Online was introduced heavily by MS, making them innovate in that area. In the same fashion, LBP is doing what MS did.

i agree with you, however cerux believes that XBL is not inovative while LBP is

i was just trying to apply his logic to said case

Woah woah woah, I never said XBL is not innovation, I said that internet on consoles in general is not innovation.

it's about as much inovation as LBP is

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="knight-k"]

Agree, but there's something that's wrong with the innovation of XBL.

PAYING FOR ONLINE, that's also an innovation of MS.

kenshinhimura16

actually no, sega, nintendo and mattell all charged for their online services, Microsoft is hardly the first

And so did sony with the PS2

yes but PC, Wii, DS, PSP and PS3 are free. MS should keep extra content as benefits for paid subscribers, and give online to all the users. Paying for online is a way of milking users.

i agree, i only have an XBL gold account because it came free with my console

[QUOTE="the1stmoonfly"]

Some people are wandering where the platformer has gone, or the scrolling shooter, while others moan theres no innovation. The wii mote is innovative hardware although no entirely original. MS is doing good things with the xbox by building on tried and tested styles that people do still want, and added online for consoles but did it well. Nintendo want to give people the old fun element of gaming rather than tring to produce bigger games with better graphics. Sony are triny to do knew things because they know that to stand out they need to do something different because lets be honest, MS is doing just as good a job as they are but have had the years head start.

There will always innovative titles around each generation but that innovation takes time. Enjoy what there is and remember that if you people dont buy these innovative titles devs wont want to take a risk with them.

superjim42

You are very correct but by ms giving us the tried and tested games i.e. what sells they are not allowing for innovative games to push through.

sony has made locoroco, patapon etc and many ppl have enjoyed these games therefore they are pushing forward with many more games like that on the psn i.e. pixeljunk eden, flower, echocrome etc.

hopefully these titles will lead to a full ps3 title and not just a psn download.

nintendo are giving original ideas, but the hardware being innovative does not equal innovative software. although there are a good few like that hospital game where you have to heal wounds etc i think that is great game.

So what about the arcade games MS made? SO now, they dont have any fun arcade classics/games? Oh wait, i guess geometry wars was never made.

I dont understand what you mean by sony was "innovative" and MS wasnt.

For me, nobody was really at all innovative this gen. stop whining.

[QUOTE="ceruxx"][QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="kenshinhimura16"][QUOTE="st1ka"]

[QUOTE="ceruxx"]I think LBP is innovative because of the physics + level creation aspect. st1ka

level creation has been on PC's for a long time now, has for the physics, if that is what makes a game inovative then were talking about the wrong game here

But not on consoles. Online was introduced heavily by MS, making them innovate in that area. In the same fashion, LBP is doing what MS did.

i agree with you, however cerux believes that XBL is not inovative while LBP is

i was just trying to apply his logic to said case

Woah woah woah, I never said XBL is not innovation, I said that internet on consoles in general is not innovation.

it's about as much inovation as LBP is

Internet on consoles in general or XBL? I'm really confused.

SO paying 50 bucks a year for an online service that offers minor improvements is your idea of innovation?

You see you have good innovation and you have bad innovation. LBP has no downsides like XBL that's why LBP (imo) is a better innovation.

Internet on consoles in general or XBL? I'm really confused.

ceruxx

both... actually

SO paying 50 bucks a year for an online service that offers minor improvements is your idea of innovation? knight-k

price has nothing to with inovation

You see you have good innovation and you have bad innovation. LBP has no downsides like XBL that's why LBP (imo) is a better innovation.knight-k

yes there is such a thing as bad inovation but you haven't menrioned any bad inovations from microsoft.

oh and as for LBP has no downsides, if there is something i learned in life is that everything has a downside

SO paying 50 bucks a year for an online service that offers minor improvements is your idea of innovation?

You see you have good innovation and you have bad innovation. LBP has no downsides like XBL that's why LBP (imo) is a better innovation.

knight-k

No, LBP and XBL stand in the same place, both are making PC exclusive features common ground on the console world. Up until now we had online, chat, and modding in consoles, but it was never fleshed out to even grasp what PCs could do. XBL set a bar for online service (paid thingy apart as discussed before) and LBP is bringing mods, something PC users could call as their best asset to console grounds. Both have done the same in terms of accomplishments. They have closen the gap of PC-Console gaming.

[QUOTE="knight-k"]

SO paying 50 bucks a year for an online service that offers minor improvements is your idea of innovation?

You see you have good innovation and you have bad innovation. LBP has no downsides like XBL that's why LBP (imo) is a better innovation.

kenshinhimura16

No, LBP and XBL stand in the same place, both are making PC exclusive features common ground on the console world. Up until now we had online, chat, and modding in consoles, but it was never fleshed out to even grasp what PCs could do. XBL set a bar for online service (paid thingy apart as discussed before) and LBP is bringing mods, something PC users could call as their best asset to console grounds. Both have done the same in terms of accomplishments. They have closen the gap of PC-Console gaming.

... an internet connection to a console in general is not innovation. Its been around forever, and its nothing new. Its what you do with it that makes it innovative, these days. So LBP is more innovative, than say, if a console were to simply be able to connect to the internet. But if you do new things with that internet connection that haven't been done before then it is innovative.

It seems to me that you're trying to start an argument that you know is wrong just to argue.

level creation has been on PC's for a long time now, has for the physics, if that is what makes a game inovative then were talking about the wrong game here

st1ka

I do agree using physics this way, making the gamer use them looks new and interesting though.

I think people always crave innovation but the trouble is, when something new and innovative is released it can only be innovative once. At some point we're going to have to accept that more of the same but done better is all we're going to get, and innovation will come in the form of better made but ultimately well known genres.

Thats why I consider XBL an innovation, as is the wiimote, as was half life 2 and many other similar things. To me innovation includes simple refinement of exsisting well known formats. Perhaps me being a bit older has lowered my expectations. LoZ:OOT was new and innovative to a large audience but I had seen it all before, its all a matter of expectation IMO rather than pure innovation in the dictionary definition of the word.

[QUOTE="st1ka"]

level creation has been on PC's for a long time now, has for the physics, if that is what makes a game inovative then were talking about the wrong game here

the1stmoonfly

I do agree using physics this way, making the gamer use them looks new and interesting though.

I think people always crave innovation but the trouble is, when something new and innovative is released it can only be innovative once. At some point we're going to have to accept that more of the same but done better is all we're going to get, and innovation will come in the form of better made but ultimately well known genres.

Thats why I consider XBL an innovation, as is the wiimote, as was half life 2 and many other similar things. To me innovation includes simple refinement of exsisting well known formats. Perhaps me being a bit older has lowered my expectations. LoZ:OOT was new and innovative to a large audience but I had seen it all before, its all a matter of expectation IMO rather than pure innovation in the dictionary definition of the word.

i agree with you in everyway, i was simply acting as if LBP wasn't an inovation to point out that both XBL and LBP deserved to be called inovations

... an internet connection to a console in general is not innovation. Its been around forever, and its nothing new. Its what you do with it that makes it innovative, these days. So LBP is more innovative, than say, if a console were to simply be able to connect to the internet. But if you do new things with that internet connection that haven't been done before then it is innovative.

It seems to me that you're trying to start an argument that you know is wrong just to argue.

ceruxx

the thing is XBL has done more then simply connecting your console online hasn't it?