Sony caught off guard and a little dumbfounded by MS

It's pretty obvious Sony has been a little confused in the past several months. No sugar coating it. It's apparent Sony was a little caught off guard and maybe shocked that MS went so hard on the power narrative. Sony probably very likely believed that MS would be insane to go all power instead of being more modest and pushing more for affordability and games and services. This is likely why Sony went modest on specs and just focused on the SSD in the PS5. Now it would seem Sony is confused and trying to get a grip on what they can do if anything to boost up the power levels in the PS5.

You can say well Sony is in first place they don't have to do anything. The reality is if you the champ and the king you don't get pushed around like this like Sony is currently. I mean even look at the tech conference Sony did two months ago with Cerney. They were like being cautious and not pushing a power narrative at all, and were basically like please don't ask questions about power, please pretty please lets bounce around and move on to hey look at our SSD.

Sony can't even finalize the PS5 build yet because it's obvious they are trying to OC the shit out of the PS5 now to try and make up any ground they can on the power front compared to the Series X.

If you think that Sony isn't perplexed these days and confused how to push forward your crazy. No question Sony got punked a bit and they have been reeling for months trying to figure out the best strategy on how to proceed knowing they are getting their ass handed to them in the power narrative.

This notion of Sony be caught off guard is more speculation than fact. The rest of your post is baseless rumors.

Well, if Lockhart is real, MS will have price and performance advantage. And with 15+ game studios, I think they have a good thing going. Sony will still Sony though and release top selling games.

Oh I still think Sony will win in total sales but all the market share Sony took this gen most of it will be given right back next gen because MS came to play and MS clearly ain't fooling around now and Sony does seem a little perplexed theses days.

I think MS will get some marketshare back yes. But Sony has their console in so many more countries, is more popular in Japan, and has the history of PlayStation behind it.

I just wonder HOW much market-share will get back. 10%? 20%? 30%?

Yeah probably like 25%. I'm looking forward to PS5 also I want to get TLOU2 with the PS5 upgrade and I want to play GOW with hopefully an upgrade also.

Seems like a hopeful alt account post pandering to their whims more than anything.

Well they were either caught off guard or they're incompetent, take your pick.

Why pick? Can't it be both?

Buy both......job sorted

Then you don’t have to get triggered when someone pokes fun at the gaming machine you have real emotional feelings towards,and you become a real gamer not a one system sad act HaH

omg you have no idea what mark did with the ps5.

he did not talk about everything in the deep dive.

ps5 power is were mark wanted it.

the tempest will help the cpu. see 3d audio or just the audio was always done by softwere that the cpu had to run but now with the tempest chip its hardwired into the system so no software is needed making all there audio going to the tempest instead of using the cpu. this way even the third party can take advantage of it and has no reason not to use it because it is hardwired into the system.

the ssd will help the gpu. the gpu was designed with a thing called the scrubber. which scrubs out textures behind you so the gpu only has to run that is in front of you. the gpu working with the ssd loading in assets as you turn in the game to face another direction.

there is a reason there talking so much about the ssd because they built the ps5 around the ssd. there not just using it to do standard ssd functions. this is why developers are saying that word revolutionary.

there is more to the ps5 that there keeping silent. there is a reason they didn't talk power is because mark made it so that they didn't need that power to get the most out of there system. made a balanced system that can run in different ways. if the gpu needs more power they use some of the cpu and vise versa. gpu can use the ssd for some assets to load in at that moment in the game.

i have hard time explaining something so i hope you can understand what im saying.

Why would Sony be shocked that MS did the same thing they did a little while ago? They went after raw power with the XBX. They're going after the same thing with the XSX. You'd have to be obtuse to not have seen it coming.

It certainly feels that way with how out in front Microsoft has been with the Xbox Series X and how quiet Sony has been about the PS5.

This is nothing new. Has been a standard in games and game engines since decades to cull the triangles out of your viewing frustum. All GPUs has it. SSD won't be helping the GPU at all. GPU don't even see the SSD or knows about it.

That's why people shouldn't talk about things they have no idea about.

I predict both companies will release systems that produce games that are fairly similar in appearance and performance. Maybe one will be more powerful than the other.

@kazhirai:

A little of both it seems. Sony has had some management shakeups the past few years looks like Sony is a little lost in their marketing and what they want to do in recent times.

Sorry an SSD does not magically make a GPU better all an SSD does is load things faster and push system information but it has no effect on actual graphics effects. I'd hardly count on anything software related from Sony to be better then Software from MS on the X. This is why developers are already saying MS software solutions are far better then Cracking and the Series X also has dedicated audio acceleration so i'd expect no advantages with software or audio with PS5 over Series X. Basically the only advantage the PS5 will have is slightly faster loading times.

I definitely think Sony was definitely surprised. And you can tell they are definitely playing catch-up.

I get what you are saying. but like you said the gpu does all that work. I know they been doing this for decades but they never had a ssd fast enough to load those assets in when needed instead of the data sitting in the gpu for the ram bring in those assets as the game runs until the hardrive or ssd loads in the next section of the game and the gpu runs that section of the game. the data sits and waits in the ssd instead. as you begin to turn or move in the game the ssd will load those assets in at that moment.

meaning all the assets does not need to be loaded in when the game loads up or level or that section of the open world. it can sit in the ssd.

I think Sony may be worried about the COIVD Outbreak and how it's going to effect costs.

I think Sony planned on having a less powerful system so they could be $100 cheaper again, but with the Pandemic parts for tech have increased in price which probably caused Sony to lose their price edge

im not saying that. not going to make the gpu better it just runs it differently. when game loads it loads everything in that section of the game and multiple objects that really is not needed in that time sits in the gpu. now if you take out assets that are sitting in the gpu that was loaded off the harddrive or ssd like today. they load in at that moment instead. making the gpu have less information in at a time so it can do more graphically functions on the screen your looking at and while you start to move the ssd brings in those assets at that time. not at the beginning of the load screen or a slow opening of a cool looking door or a forced slow walking part of the game. they customized the ssd to load in while the game is in motion.

Not only is MS winning on power, they are winning on gaming as a service, gamepass is already lined up to be the netflix of gaming and it doesnt require streaming. But if your interested in streaming, Xcloud is looking promising. MS is in the lead for next gen as far as im concerned. I do think sony got complicent while being #1 this gen.

The only thing sony really has an edge on is VR and you can make an argument they offer better exclusives (but thats an opinion). As someone who found thier exclusives overrated for the most part and as someone who has zero interest in VR gaming. Its an easy decision for me to go Xbox once I decide to upgrade to next gen.

Untill then I got my PC, ps4, and switch so I'm in no rush. But I do think this is a gen for MS to make some serious gains. Gamepass and Xcloud are game changers and I feel sony is falling behind on that front. MS is going to make up some serious loss ground imo.

playing catch-up? xbox has been playing catch-up all of xbox one life span. with backwards capable, buying new dev teams, getting gamepass up and running. phil is doing great for xbox because he played catch up all gen thanks to the guys before him. so yes sony has to play catch-up with backwards compatible. but xbox is still playing catch-up with there first party. I don;t see these games from any of the dev teams they bought. except for hellblade 2.

but like i said phil is doing great to get back on there feet again. sony does not need to do that.

You people are so weird.

also cracking is not only software they can use mark words was we added cracking aswell if they choose to use it but series x a ps 5 use most of the same rdna codes when it comes to gpu same company.

You pulled most those comments from an Xbox podcast.

Yes what he is talking about rendering what is infront of you has been for quite some time,the GPU cache scrubbers which the PS5 has several 12's on the GPU are not, is a feature of the PS5 GPU done with AMD is not on xbox either and Cerny state that is a feature just for them.

How much this help or not is up to be seen,i my self don't think it will bring much change.

Are we just going to pretend like Sony hasn't beaten Microsoft every gen and that they'll do again next gen?

I'm actually really glad MS didn't go with VR this gen and I like Phil's approach to saying we will possibly do it when it makes sense. Also MS has wanted to get in with VR possible when it's all wireless and more viable. I like that. Sony's VR on PS4 was just ok and everyone trying to sell their VR now because you know they all want that fully wireless better graphics VR on PS5. This is when MS will likely sub VR out to another company to be compatible on the Series X if it's fully wireless and high end VR graphics and resolution capabilities.

And yes Game Pass, Xcloud and Backwards Compatibility are far far ahead in those regards, and Game Pass is basically a must have now, so many great games, and all the MS exclusives now and so many going forward. It's the dopiest service their is really, and with Xcloud outta beta soon and being able to stream anything from Xcloud or your system itself is just top shelf shit.

Sony's behavior certainly is a repeat of how they handled the Neo/Pro reveal after MS unveiled plans for the Scorpio/XB1X. For that they wait until TGS before launch to reveal the thing. Yes, I would agree they were caught off guard. Not just by MS though, this pandemic is certainly a factor too. Sony has mastered event planning to pack auditoriums with hand picked industry insiders and influencers and press to hype their products to great success, this social distancing stuff though will make coordinating such events a lot more difficult. You won't get that contagious crowd euphoria that leads to that bust-a-nut o-face of audience members when they announce something like a shitty crowd funded Shenmue 3, you get a Cerny PS5 dry event.

Rumors leading up to release showed a 9.2TF system and I can only imagine using boost mode to close power gap on paper lead to unintended consequences and now they're desparately trying to nail down a new cooling and casing solution, hence, we've seen nothing. Speculation sure, but the silence is telling that at very least they're working with a weaker hand and are being very careful when they do lay down their cards.

This silence might also backfire soon. MS went to great lengths to provide superior hardware and next they'll need to announce pricing. Surely they'd price their system relative to PS5 as much as possible to narrow losses, but Sony hasn't reveal anything on that end. MS has been playing things with roll out of Series X very safe, not trying to repeat mistakes of the XB1, so I can only imagine they'll do the same for pricing. And since Sony hasn't said anything, it's quite possible they will announce a safe price that will make Sony lose their shit if they have release their weaker system at an equal or more expensive price. Just be another layer to being caught off guard.

Lol no. Nothing Microsoft showed would have been a surprising. They have a great machine, let's hope they show some great games.

Lets analize facts MS is at a point where they react to anything.

The know people have been starved for inforation of the PS5 ever since sony unveil their first spec in 2019 BEFORE MS even revealed their on E3,this is a fact not my opinion,8 cores 16 threads raytracing ssd all that it was sony who revealed FIRST.

After that MS has been monitoring sites and see how patien was growing thin by fanboys such as you lemmings who attack sony since the go for not been clear enough,in fact they claimed ray tracing before MS did,but since MS stated on E3 Hardware based all lemmings and half the internet all of the sudden started to claim the PS5 didn't have it because sony didn't say hardware.

From then on what MS has done is capilazine on sony been silent,trying to make see like they are this open company that is sharing all info whenwe know on this gen it hasn't been like that in fact they still hiding sales numbers so much for been open,they claim 90 million live users but refuse to say how many are free on PC since we know the xbox doesn't have 90 million units sold,and even if it has i am sure not every single one would own a live account.

MS is just trying to ride the wave,just like they did with BC,and cross play nothing more they are just oportunistic,thankfully for sony it doesn't take much to top MS best effords.

Which bring me to the second bold part.

Who ever think that sony took a 9.2TF GPU and just OC to 10.28TF is just day dreaming you can't do that period you can't 36CU with fast speed and smart switch was the plan period,the github leak was just a test one was at 1.8ghz,the other at 2.0 ghz and the final silicon runs at 2.23ghz they were testing in fact one of the bandwidth test show an even bigger bandwidth that the xbox series X,it mean nothing it was just a test.

Another thing that sony has make clear when they talked about SSD is how they know price is important i don't see the xbox costing $399 with that HUGE 52CU SOC,but the PS5 with 36CU has a shot,alto i think it will be more if the PS5 is $399 is all over before it even begin,just like this gen unless MS is willing to lose $200+ per unit and i just don't see it.

What make the xbox more powerful also make it more expensive sony had a goal MS had a goal they both carry one,and considering the series X has 16 CU more than the PS5 that is more than the xbox one by the way,i say 18.3GB gap in power is rather small.

The silence say nothing man and rumors point at a reveal this month who knows,some times the silence is the best weapon against an enemy who want to downplay anything you do,if they don't know anything they can't strike you,which is why all you see is MS talking about openess because is basically the only thing they can do.

And the second bold part is even more funny and show you speak from the heart.

You pass the first 4 years of this gen damage controlling the gaps.

And you now think that the PS5 could cost even more than the xbox for real?

Based on what?

@lamprey263 said:

Now, we know on paper that both ports aren't equal, yet we sometimes still barely see the differences even if we're looking for it them side-by-side, definitely less noticeable than last gen ports (well, depending on game), and likely less noticeable if one can only look at one direct feed at a time. Sure, maybe some bona fide videophiles like yourself probably can genuinely tell the difference between direct feeds, either through your discerning eye, or through a quality entertainment setup, like maybe if you have a primo pristine crystal clear high resolution top of the line HDTV, and/or you got that 20/10 vision, and/or sit only a few feet away from the TV. But, even in such circumstances, is any discerning difference worthy of ridiculing other ports, or disregarding the merits of the games themselves, or substantially take away from the experience?I don't think that'd be the case that playing on an "inferior" console would so much hinder my satisfaction if nearly the same level of parity could be achieved.

Superior hardware means little accorting to your excuses when the xbox one was behind.

Every GPU has caches and a mechanism in place to deal with coherency. Actually not just GPUs, every CPU or any component that has cache has a built in system to deal with cache coherency. This is nothing new. No one flushes the entire cache when a portion of it becomes invalidated, you just mark that chunk as invalidated and when GPU/CPU/Anything needs that chunk they go to memory instead of cache.

All Cerny said is they have a custom solution for that. Without knowing the actual implementation, no one knows how effective it's or how it differs from the usual implementations.

My 'assumption' is that they have a dedicated silicon that brings new chunk as soon as it becomes invalidated and don't wait until GPU needs it. Again this approach is not new either but is usually avoided because doing that will defeat the purpose of cache and components has to go to memory.

With newer RDNA 2 and AMD's current GPU design it's actually a bigger gap because in typical terms a GPU with 2 more tflops would normally be 2 more tflops but now with AMD's RDNA tech it's more like double that. The efficiency of the performance now needs to be considered in double and even possible triple terms. So if the Series X GPU is 12.1 and the PS5 is 9.2 with occasional boost to 10.2 at times then you could theoretically think that the Series X GPU that can be locked at 12.1 is actually in performance terms more like 3-4 more tflops of power then the PS5 GPU.

This meltdown needed to be quoted to avoid deletion.

Curious why people are acting like Sony is being any different now than they were with the PS4 reveal? They revealed the controller and basic hardware specs, just like they did with the PS4. We didn't see the PS4 until E3(June I think). Sony will probably show it next month.

@i_own_u_4ever: "9.2 with occasional boost to 10.2 at times"... You know this isn't true so why keep saying it? Cerny already said it will run at 10.2 nearly all the time... Copied this from another thread: "the console is designed to keep thermal draw down and thus keep the components operating at peak. If the GPU doesn’t need to be used, devs can reassign power to the CPU and vice versa. This means whenever you need that boost in power it’s there. You really don’t have to explicitly program the console to do this. Variable frequency is not “overclocking” like Xbox fans seem to think. It’s smartly allocating power thus keeping power consumption and therefore heat down to ensure top performance."

The question is: After two years of no next gen exclusives (maybe some 3rd party exclusives?) will SONY or MS be gearing up to release mid gen refreshes within a year or two?

If so, then MS will hold the edge on power, but will be all but completely irrelevant for 50-75% of that time period since 3rd party games are likely to go the parity route.. unless SONY's mid gen refresh (if they have one) is only about on par with the series x. However, if SONY goes all in on power mid gen... then what? Will MS retaliate and blow them away again, or stand pat?

I thought I remembered hearing that MS said they wouldn't be doing a mid gen upgrade, but perhaps I misunderstood. Did anyone else hear that? Perhaps I was dreaming or just read some random "leak" lol.

Either way, I think it will be interesting to see how things play out.

@gifford38: If you don’t think Sony is scared you are insane. They spent one hour talking about audio and SSD’s at a developer talk for gaming. Doesn’t mention what the machine is capable of as far as performance. Microsoft has shown many demos and games. Sony? Nothing. So yeah, Sony is behind currently.

Sony will outsell MS with their ps5, but when you take xbox game pass into consideration, the end result may be that MS is more profitable. More profitable and more powerful.

Lol yeah Sony doesn’t know what they are doing, that’s why they sold more consoles than Xbox, PS 1,2,4 and even 3 with MS having one year head start in EUROPE, and more people keep bring up the PS 5 then Xbox

Actually i dont delete post or hide until the waters go down like you did for years.

Now this ^^ @Pedro is the bullshit post that you should be quoting but you are to busy trying to beat me while trying to look unbiased a failing miserably.

The xbox series X will be 4TF stronger than the PS5 and you say lemmings are happy with the xbox series X power..

Basically all of this in on your mind blackace,in your mind sony is scare in reality sony don't care a rats ass,when they know a damn PS5 logo was enough to top the xbox series X reveal with CG trailer of hellbalde 2 included...

From where do you people bring all this crap,well you need a strong imagination to believe DX12 would close a 40% gap or a cloud for that matter.

@tormentos said:

@Pedro said:

This meltdown needed to be quoted to avoid deletion.

Actually i dont delete post or hide until the waters go down like you did for years.

Now this ^^ @Pedro is the bullshit post that you should be quoting but you are to busy trying to beat me while trying to look unbiased a failing miserably.

The xbox series X will be 4TF stronger than the PS5 and you say lemmings are happy with the xbox series X power..

As usual you don't know what you are talking about and just make shit up as you go. I hid until the waters go down?🤣😂 Your 360 PTSD is acting up again.

I enjoy watching you damage control the Xbox fannies because you can't handle the reality of the PS5 being weaker and even more weaker because only the max performance was stated. You write bullshit and they write bullshit. Enjoy damage controlling for all of next gen. Lets see if you join your fellow Sony fannies in hiding. 😂

theoretically think that the Series X GPU that can be locked at 12.1 is actually in performance terms more like 3-4 more tflops of power then the PS5 GPU.

I let this seat again while i see your balancing act.😂

But but but lemmings are happy with the xbox specs.

Poor you. Crying foul and still can't answer a simple question on the PS5 base clocks. 😂

No Xbox fanny is unhappy with the Series X specs, you are the one that has been damage controlling for weeks. 😂😂

@tormentos: one tool Microsoft has in its arsenal is its money, and I am not talking a wealth to squander. Yes you're right, dropping Series X price would surely mean production costs to sales price gap would grow no doubt, but they'd not be losing money if they did. To explain, companies like MS and Sony generate lots of revenue each year, they'll have a tax liability that accounts for their business expenses. For a company like Sony who produces more tangible goods with higher overhead, much of this is written off through their costs. Microsoft's overhead is substantially smaller, thus their tax liability would be great unless they reduced this through expenses. We've all seen those baffling acquisitions make headlines over the years, MS spending untold billions to acquire some stupid tech company and/or their IP. On their face, these investments seem utterly wasteful, unless you see that the money spent would be gone one way or another, either going to Uncle Sam, or to acquire something of potential value for the company. Well, they have billions each year to do this with. They could easily portion just a fraction of such money to bolster their gaming endeavors and not really cost them anything they weren't going to lose anyways. Now, I don't know or think it'll actually happen reguarding their gaming segment, but I see this as a possibilty. Phil Spencer is now on the MS board and could have a greater say in such considerations. Even Sony fans here keep taking shots at Game Pass being wasteful, that they're practically giving it away and eating the cost, and maybe they're right. But if that is the case, given what I just said about the potential for MS to utilize their resources in such a manner, why would they stop at Game Pass if they're not really losing anything in terms of the company's profitibility in doing so, just chipping away at a small portion of their tax burden by driving up costs, and still have billions more to acquire other tech companies and their IP. I don't think they're out to undercut Sony, I'd imagine they'd want to price the Series X as relative to PS5 as much as possible, but if Sony isn't going to say shit, MS who seems careful to not repeat past mistakes might play it safe, price the Series X relative to what they think is lowest Sony will go.

@i_own_u_4ever: Yawn...who's alt is this now?

@lamprey263:

Don't expect MS to loose billions on Xbox they will not,the time of huge losses is over,and I don't see MS going down that road again,Xbox games are on PC for a reason to make as much as possible.

lol Poo Phony, they just can't seem to even buy a break these dayzz. :P

why would they talk about the gpu when the developers know what gpu is in the ps5? dev's know what a gpu/cpu does but he does give us the number for the gpu/cpu which is all he had to tell the developers. they do not know how fast the ssd and what it does to develop for. they did not know about tempest chip and how it is hardwired in and doesn't need software to run it to free up cpu series x has a sound card to but not as powerful as the tempest. see what you don't get is how the ps5 is built around the ssd using it as type of ram. show many demos of games? hell blade 2 and halo wow so many. yes today they willl be show third party but all of them are on the ps5 as well. besides there not going to reveal all of the system inside parts. how do we know after what the showed they didn't turn off cameras and he showed more to the developers that we don't see.