Sony Full Year Results: 1.25b Loss | PS 78m Loss

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/13q4_sony.pdf

Total losses from the PC division over this year and the next will amount to 171.7bn yen, that includes operating losses, asset impairments and goodwill impairments. Gives us an idea of what exiting the TV market would cost if they were to do it, though there is no goodwill associated with the TV division.

Game forecast:

Game & Network Services

Sales are expected to increase primarily due to an increase in unit sales of PS4s and an increase in network services revenue. Operating results are expected to improve primarily due to the impact of the increase in sales and a decrease in costs related to the launch of the PS4.

1,220bn yen revenue forecast, up by 16.9%, and a 20bn yen operating profit forecast.

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doomed

I really hope they don't exit the TV market, I'm almost certain they won't...Sony in my honest opinion makes the best TVs on the market....samsung is fine but my sony tv is way better than my samsung. I'm sure the PS4 will help Sony.

They're one of the finest TV makers out there, it just happens that they are also one of the most expensive TV providers.

Samsung offers pretty much the same for much less. Which is why they dominate the TV market.

Sony = $1.25 billion loss

Nintendo = $456 million loss

Microsoft = $21.86 billion profit

It feels like Sony started going downhill right when the economy started to as well...around 2006-2008. I think its because Sony makes luxury high end (expensive) products that the common man no longer could afford.

and this is why Sony can't turn the gaming division into its own company, there'll be times they need the larger company's resources

Soooo... the only one who made out with bank out of the Big Three was MS? No surprise there.

I could say that Ninty may have not looked too bad if it wasn't for their larger one time loss on R&D (and something else I think, can't remember).

I'm sure that's a factor but I think it might have started a little earlier than that...

http://kotaku.com/5960411/how-sony-is-turning-into-a-ghost-in-japan-and-around-the-world

...it's a lengthy but informative read that might give you some perspective.

The bit about Nobuyuki Idei I think might be the most telling part about Sony's decline.

"Idei decided to streamline the company and do massive restructuring. When we say, 'restructure' in Japanese-we really mean get rid of people. He put together an early retirement plan and strongly encouraged people to use it. Well, that didn't generate a lot of good feelings. When a company starts promoting early retirement, most people take that as a sign to get out while they still can. And many did. Maybe the idea was that by getting rid of the middle aged and older employees they'd encourage innovation and bring in some young blood. The effect was more like shooting yourself in the foot."

According to the Sony veteran, the middle-aged engineers and technicians that left were the same ones that brought Sony to greatness. They left behind a younger generation that was insecure, afraid of failure, and only willing to work with technology already in place—not build from the ground up.

"What was even worse is that during this period, Korea and Taiwan immediately welcome the exiting Sony techies with open arms. It was better than industrial espionage—Samsung could openly 'buy' the technology that Sony had developed simply by rehiring their best and brightest."

They should be making profit since they are selling $200 hardware for $500.

Bye bye sony you and your lies wont be missed

Microsoft is still the king i see, business as usual

Oh, did not read. ITS A WHOLE YEAR.

Sony = $1.25 billion loss

Nintedo = $456 million loss

Microsoft = $21.86 billion profit

Now if you look at M$ gaming division,it's another story.

Windows and Office is pumping all the cash for Microsoft,not the xbox.

Interesting...

Anyway, it's the insurance part of Sony that keeps Sony afloat. And they're doing good in that dep.

Sony has been struggling since early 00's maybe even before that.

I don't know about last year but the 5 years before that Xbox has made a profit.

Sony is back, in the red. I'm guessing they aren't going to risk making big budget games themselves, they can't afford it anyway specially when their CEO and Executives are taking 50% pay cuts and losing bonuses, that's nuts. It's sad because the PS4 has potential to be a great console too. It's going to be Indie and Remake-station until they get back in making money so they can have gaming budgets.

Um what? I hope you are joking.

That's a shame. Is there Q4 2013 numbers? I remember the PS division did quite well in Q3.

Erm.

So basically Sony is bleeding money like they have been for some time now!

Ouch either way.

Looking at their package on the website I'm kind of thinking Sony's situation might be improving since it's equity grew by about $1 billion, or at the very least a true showing they're turning things around in ways. In the years it was losing money it was chucking assets and it's debt grew considerably, but looking at the figures now Sony's assets grew from ¥14.2 trillion to ¥15.3 trillion, while it's liabilities went from ¥11.5 trillion to ¥12.5 trillion; it's about a ¥100 billion difference in the growth between the two which comes out to about $1 billion in additional equity. It's marginal in scope but I find this much more desirable news than than last year's celebrated $400 million profit where they only achieved such by selling off $5.5 billion worth of assets, where last year their equity shrank by about $1.3 billion. I mean, I don't know how to look at it, they lost $1.25 billion this year but gained about $1.1 billion in equity, looks like their finally getting close to maybe turning things around for themselves. Maybe they won't have to cut TVs after all.

Their equity in yen last year to last year's US dollar their equity was $23.3 billion dollars, this year it's $27.1 billion dollars, however their equity didn't grow by ¥400 billion in Japan, I'm guessing exchange rates were much different between the two years.

I'm sort of suspicious about their move to turn their TV businesses into a wholly owned subsidiary. After all it would make more sense it they made it a subsidiary, since that end of their business has been losing them billions for years, and by making it a subsidiary they maintain and controlling interest and dilute shares to sell to investor to get capital to finance their TV business... but this is not the case. It makes me question how this move is strategic with a faltering arm of their business. For instance, would a subsidiary be able to borrow money outside their parent company without Sony's bad credit rating hurting things? Or, I'm wondering if this has been part of some creative book cooking to boost it's equity though redundant accounting, such as claiming the assets of the subsidiary as the parent company's assets, all while at the same time claiming the subsidiary and it's assets as an asset to the parent company. Or, in the most cynical case, maybe they're setting up for a potential bankruptcy strategy, by shifting it's debt to the subsidiary it can potentially let it go bankrupt, bail it out for legal costs in it's bankruptcy, acquire the assets of subsidiary in the process, and leave the debt unpaid for good with the defunct subsidiary; I heard of an energy company doing this with it's subsidiaries that racked up debt on court awarded damages and fines for its environmental devastation, all they had to do was file bankruptcy, let the parent company pay for their legal costs which gave them first crack at everything, leaving the subsidiary with no money or assets to pay back it's debt and that was the end of that. Anyhow, that's very cynical thinking, I'd like to think that Sony's on the right track for once, and hope it stays that way.

@MonsieurX:

Their entertainment and devices division made $8 billion in revenue

yikes...

I fear that Kaz will fall on his sword any day now.

I have no Sony stock, so I care about this how?

Well ...****.

Sony is in a freefall and the PS4 can't save it. SCE needs to be a separate company before the issues of the corp begin to effect it. They already expect, no matter how many PS4's they sell, that they will lose $500 million in 2014. Lol, just like people have the What Will Save Xbox One chalkboard, someone needs to do what will save Sony chalkboard. As always, Cow response will be:

Wow Nintendo won 21.86 billions in profits damn... They should release a new consoles next year with a 7970 for $400...hahaha

hahaha lol... my mistake. Microsoft :)

Did you even read the report.?

900 million of the loss was do in part to the PC section,a section they shaved off so basically come next quarter that would not be there any more.

The game division loss was also mostly attribute to sony online game division on PC.

The company sold 75 billions in dollars no matter what that is a freaking huge quantity of products,they need to keep shaving what doesn't produce and keep what does,like they did with the PC section.

Yet is MS who is cutting kinect,and basically fallowing sony to the smallest detail in hopes of increasing sales,MS xbox division sales were not even discuss in their last fiscal year and no one knows if the division actually make a profit from the gaming division it was hidden..

So yeah that mean losses and there are some big wigs wanting the xbox dead and shave off just like sony PC division,and Bill gates yeah he is ok with that if it happens..lol

If it wasn't for MS windows millions the xbox would be dead already and burry,it has never gave MS true profits.

This one report is bad,. but the cumulative effects of 4+ years of massive losses tells the tale of Sony. If its not selling the PC business , its their cell phone business two years ago flopping, or movies flopping, or the PS3 losing every dollar PS1 and 2 ever made, or selling buildings to cover debts, or selling shares in a one time partner Square that helped build the PS brand, or their credit rating falling to junk. Look, I get you need to defend PS at all counts. I get that. But you are trying damage control so hard for this one report, ignoring this report goes on the pile of bad reports for half a decade now. MS is all in with Xbox, hence Phil Spencer being hired and the new CEO saying they have no intent whatsoever to sell Xbox. Couple that with Bill Gates saying he supports whatever the CEO does, meaning Xbox is very safe and ready for war. I didn't mention how well MS is doing as there is no need to. That's a given. I'm not happy or cartwheeling over Sony's misfortunes as behind every sad little Sony fanboy there are thousands of families that will be affected by the thousands of job losses and closings of divisions within SONY. None of that is funny. But since this is a gaming forum and PS is a gaming platform within it we're talking about how bad Sony is doing. You have blinders on in every conceivable way, that's obvious. The longer the losses pile, year after year, you begin to wonder if Sony can get out of this without a bailout, which is looking far less likely. Sony is in deep trouble. Its not good news. Its not funny news. But it is a blunt fact whether you like it or not.

To close, expected and received Cow reaction to the report:

If you take Surface away from the devices division, they are probably profitable, just like Sony's gaming division is probably profitable. Although the vita might be weighting them down still.

@tormentos:

As usual targeting aspects while ignoring others.

Sony will lose money again in 2014-15 year from selling its PC business.

The fact of the matter is they cutting anything and everything to try and get back on track. This includes all divisions including gaming.

I wouldn't expect much from Sony for the next couple of years at least.

I'm surprised Sony has been able to sustain such heavy losses over the past seven years.

Link? The XBox brand has a life time negative, mainly from the first XBox and RROD. But, the division has been turning a profit for several years now.

oh no! they lost 1.2b yen!

quick! hand kaz fifty bucks so he can balance the books!

Microsoft may be losing $2 billion a year on the Xbox franchise. The loses are masked by the influx of Android patent royalties (FAT filesystem). Monies from both areas funnel into the Entertainment and Devices Division. -Source

Nintendo is a game company only & are fine. Sony's PS4 is a strong brand for them. Sony will just stop making things that are losing them money and adjust.

Analyst Rick Sherlund believes that staggering losses on the Xbox business are being masked by Android royalties.

We using analysis as facts now are we.

No, not per se, that is why I used the operative may. These analysts aren't alone, other high level executives have expressed interest in cutting the Xbox franchise. Obviously this wouldn't even be up for discussion if the division was healthy.

Nintendo isn't fine. They have serious issues financially. Sony can't just stop making things that lose money. Its not that easy or they would have done this 5 years ago. They are really in a tough position. They are basically living check to check and still not able to pay all of their bills. This after selling some of their belongings. Pretty soon, their will be no assets to sell without tougher repercussions. I could offer thoughts suggestions that make sense, but without knowing the real ramifications and most importantly, the human elements, we are just arm chair quarterbacking with no knowledge.

Me too. I want to know how they are securing new credit when their books stink. They have to be giving away shares or selling assets (buildings, etc) at a favorable rate to creditors.

After loosing money you would think Sony would make a system that make money on each system sold. But nope just put everything they can on the system and lie their way.

@lhughey:

Nintendo only had their paycheck cut while Sony had to close down studios and layoff thousands of employees. Nintendo financial issue is not serious when you look at Sony as they are worth less than Nintendo. The Wii U isn't loosing money anymore so Mario Kart 8 is going to make them a huge profit.

MS...Xbox profits are down $1 billion.....r & d costs up. Source...MS.

They lost money with Xbox and Xbox 360 red ring(first 3 years). After 2008 they been earning profit, and when Kinect was released, then profit WENT TOP and earned massive money.

Just Xbox 360 red ring back in 2007 made HUGE LOSS but now they have recovered everything and making profit. Every xbox one sold is profit, every wii u and ps4 sold is loss.

That doesn't mean much to investors....

You lose 500 euros. Now, next 4 year you earn 100 euros profit(4 years).

How big is loss? 100 euros.

Right now Xbox One is making profit. Same thing with Xbox 360. Just Red Ring was huge massive billions loss. Now they making profit and earned more than red ring did to microsoft, it just takes time.

So basically your argument is base around bullsh**.?

The xbox is read for war what an idiot,the only fu**ing thing missing to be a PS4 is the power and saying PS4 on the damn box,they are so clueless about how to make the xbox one sell that they are desperate trying what ever they can to spark sales,the xbox one was already been sold for $449 with Titanfall that is $10 cheaper than a PS4 with 1 game and still they got outsold in US and world wide to.

You mean the same Phill spencer who swear to god that the xbox one would not be sold without Kinect .?

Yeah you can trust that guy...hahaha

Considering that you are the same buffoon who try to argue that MS would win because of its billions i find funny that you are even talking about this,MS has loss 2 generations in a row the wii won last gen and the one before that by sony,this one they are losing already,billions don't warranty you success,look at Bing,windows phones and tablets all been owned hard by google and even apple..

For ever windows tablet sold Apple sell 17 and Android like 37,is not much better in the phone market 187 million android phones sold last quarter vs 13 million windows ones,hell i think sony sold inside android more than 13 million phones and sony is one of the least selling brands phone wise..lol

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/02/05/investors-want-microsofts-new-ceo-to-kill-xbox-bing-and-surface/

Do you think that is a joke.? Is not investors want Bing,suface and xbox gone,bing alone loss MS more money than the PS3 loss sony..

http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/20/technology/microsoft_bing/index.htm?iid=EL

As 2011 they already loss 9 billions on Bing, alone again thank god for windows,because if not between Bing and the xbox brand MS has loss 16+ billion dollars since 2001 when the xbox was born and 2007 where Bing was..

MS may produce allot of cash but no matter how you slice it those 16 billions were better on the pockets of investors than loss,and i am sure investors know that,which is the reason why they want MS to focus on windows.

Because one day your up the next you don't and there is already an OS out there which has a dominance as strong as windows,and people are not getting charge $100 for it.

Hell even if the worst case scenario happen the will would more than a few buyers out there willing to pick the PS brand from sony,which mean the brand would still be alive and MS would still be carrying a losing brand..

They are a big company they still move 75 billion dollars in products that's allot of cash even that they are getting the short end of the stick whit to profits..

If you're going to pretend to discuss business and investors then you should know that they don't like waiting for a pay off. And for a few years now the investors have been against the gaming division...ie xbox brand. Which impacts decisions. Which may impact your gaming. Period. Don't post about Sony/Nintendo business problems without allowing MS has them as well. In the last few years they've closed divisions and laid people off as well. Take off those rose colored glasses dude.....

Is the X1 making a profit? They have been dropping prices and including software. They may have been at a profit point with the initial cost but they do have to pay for the R & D and manufacturing. Dropping prices doesn't help.

Anyway your example is very simple and naive and not what my post was about.