MS...Xbox profits are down $1 billion.....r & d costs up. Source...MS.
that's to be expected just going into a new console generation though
That doesn't mean much to investors....
if they are investors, they probably know enough about how business works and what to expect.
If you're going to pretend to discuss business and investors then you should know that they don't like waiting for a pay off. And for a few years now the investors have been against the gaming division...ie xbox brand. Which impacts decisions. Which may impact your gaming. Period. Don't post about Sony/Nintendo business problems without allowing MS has them as well. In the last few years they've closed divisions and laid people off as well. Take off those rose colored glasses dude.....
why do you think i am wearing rose tinted glasses? I just pointed out a VERY basic fact, that when you've launched a new product, R&D costs are high as a result profits go down.
And I asked what that had to do with investors. You are aware they want out of gaming consoles....right?
You lose 500 euros. Now, next 4 year you earn 100 euros profit(4 years).
How big is loss? 100 euros.
Right now Xbox One is making profit. Same thing with Xbox 360. Just Red Ring was huge massive billions loss. Now they making profit and earned more than red ring did to microsoft, it just takes time.
Is the X1 making a profit? They have been dropping prices and including software. They may have been at a profit point with the initial cost but they do have to pay for the R & D and manufacturing. Dropping prices doesn't help.
Anyway your example is very simple and naive and not what my post was about.
Yes, Xbox One is making a profit(the only console, PS4 and Wii U sells at loss).
Red Ring time is over. 2007 loss was bigger then 2008-2013 profit, but after 2013 they been earning more money than Red Ring loss ever cost to them.
I just want to establish this, for the record, that the Vita and PSP put together have sold 4.1 million in FY13. That's as much as the 3DS sells in a quarter. #VitaMeansLife indeed.
This one report is bad,. but the cumulative effects of 4+ years of massive losses tells the tale of Sony. If its not selling the PC business , its their cell phone business two years ago flopping, or movies flopping, or the PS3 losing every dollar PS1 and 2 ever made, or selling buildings to cover debts, or selling shares in a one time partner Square that helped build the PS brand, or their credit rating falling to junk. Look, I get you need to defend PS at all counts. I get that.
But you are trying damage control so hard for this one report, ignoring this report goes on the pile of bad reports for half a decade now. MS is all in with Xbox, hence Phil Spencer being hired and the new CEO saying they have no intent whatsoever to sell Xbox.Couple that with Bill Gates saying he supports whatever the CEO does, meaning Xbox is very safe and ready for war.
I didn't mention how well MS is doing as there is no need to. That's a given. I'm not happy or cartwheeling over Sony's misfortunes as behind every sad little Sony fanboy there are thousands of families that will be affected by the thousands of job losses and closings of divisions within SONY. None of that is funny. But since this is a gaming forum and PS is a gaming platform within it we're talking about how bad Sony is doing. You have blinders on in every conceivable way, that's obvious. The longer the losses pile, year after year, you begin to wonder if Sony can get out of this without a bailout, which is looking far less likely. Sony is in deep trouble. Its not good news. Its not funny news. But it is a blunt fact whether you like it or not.
To close, expected and received Cow reaction to the report:
So basically your argument is base around bullsh**.?
The xbox is read for war what an idiot,the only fu**ing thing missing to be a PS4 is the power and saying PS4 on the damn box,they are so clueless about how to make the xbox one sell that they are desperate trying what ever they can to spark sales,the xbox one was already been sold for $449 with Titanfall that is $10 cheaper than a PS4 with 1 game and still they got outsold in US and world wide to.
You mean the same Phill spencer who swear to god that the xbox one would not be sold without Kinect .?
Yeah you can trust that guy...hahaha
Considering that you are the same buffoon who try to argue that MS would win because of its billions i find funny that you are even talking about this,MS has loss 2 generations in a row the wii won last gen and the one before that by sony,this one they are losing already,billions don't warranty you success,look at Bing,windows phones and tablets all been owned hard by google and even apple..
For ever windows tablet sold Apple sell 17 and Android like 37,is not much better in the phone market 187 million android phones sold last quarter vs 13 million windows ones,hell i think sony sold inside android more than 13 million phones and sony is one of the least selling brands phone wise..lol
As 2011 they already loss 9 billions on Bing, alone again thank god for windows,because if not between Bing and the xbox brand MS has loss 16+ billion dollars since 2001 when the xbox was born and 2007 where Bing was..
MS may produce allot of cash but no matter how you slice it those 16 billions were better on the pockets of investors than loss,and i am sure investors know that,which is the reason why they want MS to focus on windows.
Because one day your up the next you don't and there is already an OS out there which has a dominance as strong as windows,and people are not getting charge $100 for it.
Hell even if the worst case scenario happen the will would more than a few buyers out there willing to pick the PS brand from sony,which mean the brand would still be alive and MS would still be carrying a losing brand..
"Communications chief Frank Shaw told Eurogamer Gates' comments "were reflective of his support of Satya as CEO", and reiterated its support for Xbox.
"As Mr. Gates noted, Microsoft is committed to gaming across multiple platforms with Xbox as the centerpiece of our gaming strategy," Shaw added. "We remain committed to Xbox and the millions of Xbox fans around the world."
Microsoft has faced questions over a potential Xbox spin-off ever since Nokia chief Stephen Elop was reported to have considered selling the division if he took over the company.
But after Nadella got the top job the gaming business was reorganised so Xbox, Xbox Live and creative teams, which include Xbox Music, Xbox Video and Microsoft Studios, were unified under the control of Phil Spencer."
Phil Spencer just price dropped the Xbox One to $399, dropping Kinect. Removed all entertainment apps from the Live paywall, and has added monthly game rentals ala PS+. He's doing a great job. Surface 2 tablet sales have doubled since Oct 2013, and they aren't about to quit improving it as they are now doing better. But all of that means little really. In the launch year of a new console the gaming division takes hits, no matter the company. But here is the pure reality.
In 2013 Microsoft as a company made $21.86 billion profit - MS has posted profit for well over ten years straight.
In 2013 Sony as a company loss $1.25 billion
In 2012 Sony loss $820 million - http://www.joystiq.com/2012/05/10/sonys-fiscal-2012-results-820-million-loss-due-to-floods-ear/
In 2011 Sony posted a record loss $5.73 billion - http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/10/sony-fy-2011-results/
In 2010 Sony loss $1.03 billion - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/15/business/global/15sony.html
In 2009 Sony loss $439 million - http://www.techspot.com/news/38948-sony-posts-439-million-annual-loss-has-high-hopes-for-2010.html
MS as a company believes in Xbox, hence the changes and support reported. Sony, as a company, is in a dire situation. One that PS4 sales cannot fix. Does it mean Sony is doomed. No. Likely if things don't get better Japan will bail them out, or they might sell the company. But don't compare them to MS as they don't in the realm of revenue, value, or credit rating. And don't act like all this corporate trouble will in no way, shape, or form impact PS4. That would be naive.
if they are investors, they probably know enough about how business works and what to expect.
If you're going to pretend to discuss business and investors then you should know that they don't like waiting for a pay off. And for a few years now the investors have been against the gaming division...ie xbox brand. Which impacts decisions. Which may impact your gaming. Period. Don't post about Sony/Nintendo business problems without allowing MS has them as well. In the last few years they've closed divisions and laid people off as well. Take off those rose colored glasses dude.....
why do you think i am wearing rose tinted glasses? I just pointed out a VERY basic fact, that when you've launched a new product, R&D costs are high as a result profits go down.
And I asked what that had to do with investors. You are aware they want out of gaming consoles....right?
No, you stated that it didn't mean much to investors...I pointed out that they will have been expecting it, due to a very basic fact.
no wonder you have racked up nearly 150,000 posts if this is how you carry on all the time
I never said anything about their expectations dude. Have you been paying attention at all to my posts? Or the MS investors?
This one report is bad,. but the cumulative effects of 4+ years of massive losses tells the tale of Sony. If its not selling the PC business , its their cell phone business two years ago flopping, or movies flopping, or the PS3 losing every dollar PS1 and 2 ever made, or selling buildings to cover debts, or selling shares in a one time partner Square that helped build the PS brand, or their credit rating falling to junk. Look, I get you need to defend PS at all counts. I get that.
But you are trying damage control so hard for this one report, ignoring this report goes on the pile of bad reports for half a decade now. MS is all in with Xbox, hence Phil Spencer being hired and the new CEO saying they have no intent whatsoever to sell Xbox.Couple that with Bill Gates saying he supports whatever the CEO does, meaning Xbox is very safe and ready for war.
I didn't mention how well MS is doing as there is no need to. That's a given. I'm not happy or cartwheeling over Sony's misfortunes as behind every sad little Sony fanboy there are thousands of families that will be affected by the thousands of job losses and closings of divisions within SONY. None of that is funny. But since this is a gaming forum and PS is a gaming platform within it we're talking about how bad Sony is doing. You have blinders on in every conceivable way, that's obvious. The longer the losses pile, year after year, you begin to wonder if Sony can get out of this without a bailout, which is looking far less likely. Sony is in deep trouble. Its not good news. Its not funny news. But it is a blunt fact whether you like it or not.
To close, expected and received Cow reaction to the report:
So basically your argument is base around bullsh**.?
The xbox is read for war what an idiot,the only fu**ing thing missing to be a PS4 is the power and saying PS4 on the damn box,they are so clueless about how to make the xbox one sell that they are desperate trying what ever they can to spark sales,the xbox one was already been sold for $449 with Titanfall that is $10 cheaper than a PS4 with 1 game and still they got outsold in US and world wide to.
You mean the same Phill spencer who swear to god that the xbox one would not be sold without Kinect .?
Yeah you can trust that guy...hahaha
Considering that you are the same buffoon who try to argue that MS would win because of its billions i find funny that you are even talking about this,MS has loss 2 generations in a row the wii won last gen and the one before that by sony,this one they are losing already,billions don't warranty you success,look at Bing,windows phones and tablets all been owned hard by google and even apple..
For ever windows tablet sold Apple sell 17 and Android like 37,is not much better in the phone market 187 million android phones sold last quarter vs 13 million windows ones,hell i think sony sold inside android more than 13 million phones and sony is one of the least selling brands phone wise..lol
As 2011 they already loss 9 billions on Bing, alone again thank god for windows,because if not between Bing and the xbox brand MS has loss 16+ billion dollars since 2001 when the xbox was born and 2007 where Bing was..
MS may produce allot of cash but no matter how you slice it those 16 billions were better on the pockets of investors than loss,and i am sure investors know that,which is the reason why they want MS to focus on windows.
Because one day your up the next you don't and there is already an OS out there which has a dominance as strong as windows,and people are not getting charge $100 for it.
Hell even if the worst case scenario happen the will would more than a few buyers out there willing to pick the PS brand from sony,which mean the brand would still be alive and MS would still be carrying a losing brand..
"Communications chief Frank Shaw told Eurogamer Gates' comments "were reflective of his support of Satya as CEO", and reiterated its support for Xbox.
"As Mr. Gates noted, Microsoft is committed to gaming across multiple platforms with Xbox as the centerpiece of our gaming strategy," Shaw added. "We remain committed to Xbox and the millions of Xbox fans around the world."
Microsoft has faced questions over a potential Xbox spin-off ever since Nokia chief Stephen Elop was reported to have considered selling the division if he took over the company.
But after Nadella got the top job the gaming business was reorganised so Xbox, Xbox Live and creative teams, which include Xbox Music, Xbox Video and Microsoft Studios, were unified under the control of Phil Spencer."
Phil Spencer just price dropped the Xbox One to $399, dropping Kinect. Removed all entertainment apps from the Live paywall, and has added monthly game rentals ala PS+. He's doing a great job. Surface 2 tablet sales have doubled since Oct 2013, and they aren't about to quit improving it as they are now doing better. But all of that means little really. In the launch year of a new console the gaming division takes hits, no matter the company. But here is the pure reality.
In 2013 Microsoft as a company made
$21.86 billion profit - MS has posted profit for well over ten years straight.
In 2013 Sony as a company loss $1.25 billion
In 2012 Sony loss $820 million - http://www.joystiq.com/2012/05/10/sonys-fiscal-2012-results-820-million-loss-due-to-floods-ear/
In 2010 Sony loss $1.03 billion - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/15/business/global/15sony.html
In 2009 Sony loss $439 million - http://www.techspot.com/news/38948-sony-posts-439-million-annual-loss-has-high-hopes-for-2010.html
MS as a company believes in Xbox, hence the changes and support reported. Sony, as a company, is in a dire situation. One that PS4 sales cannot fix. Does it mean Sony is doomed. No. Likely if things don't get better Japan will bail them out, or they might sell the company. But don't compare them to MS as they don't in the realm of revenue, value, or credit rating. And don't act like all this corporate trouble will in no way, shape, or form impact PS4. That would be naive.
INB4 Eltormo damage control, huge post with multiple quotes and sections....all shite
Actually its spot on. You just don't want to accept it.
Sony's definitely in trouble but they only have themselves to play for this. Their TV's are expensive as hell and compared to Samsung and LG they don't offer anything better that gives them the right to that "Premium" price point. Same goes with their Computer and Laptop businesses everything they make is offered at a Sony "Premium" because they think they still have a brand name and brand power.
Too bad SCE can't jump away from Sony as a whole because I honestly can't see the company ever improving and SCE will only get dragged down with it.
Gaming division made a profit of $400 million. That's with the launch of Xbox One. Gaming division has been profitable per year for 6 straight years. Slowing plugging away at the RROD debt, but operating in the black on a yearly basis. Its far from the backbone of MS profits, but its not an eye sore either.
lol Shawnie doing damage control for a dead console.
@Vatusus said:
@FreedomFreeLife said:
Sony = $1.25 billion loss
Nintendo = $456 million loss
Microsoft = $21.86 billion profit
lol, however, none of that profit comes from the gaming business. Dont know why lems brag over this.
Yeah, it's funny why lems always manage to miss this key detail. Xbone revenue is now lumbered in as a whole with mobiles and tablets so we don't know how much it underperforms. Ol' Sphincter is still beholden to Elop and Myerson too, and he was the only one there even vaguely suitable for the gig.
lol Shawnie doing damage control for a dead console.
@Vatusus said:
@FreedomFreeLife said:
Sony = $1.25 billion loss
Nintendo = $456 million loss
Microsoft = $21.86 billion profit
lol, however, none of that profit comes from the gaming business. Dont know why lems brag over this.
Yeah, it's funny why lems always manage to miss this key detail. Xbone revenue is now lumbered in as a whole with mobiles and tablets so we don't know how much it underperforms. Ol' Sphincter is still beholden to Elop and Myerson too, and he was the only one there even vaguely suitable for the gig.
So you're unable to prove the Xbox isn't profitable :) Good to know when reading your opinion. Over they are still paying off RROD, but each year they are profiting and operating in the black. PS cannot say that. That isn't damage control when its a fact.
lol Shawnie doing damage control for a dead console.
@Vatusus said:
@FreedomFreeLife said:
Sony = $1.25 billion loss
Nintendo = $456 million loss
Microsoft = $21.86 billion profit
lol, however, none of that profit comes from the gaming business. Dont know why lems brag over this.
Yeah, it's funny why lems always manage to miss this key detail. Xbone revenue is now lumbered in as a whole with mobiles and tablets so we don't know how much it underperforms. Ol' Sphincter is still beholden to Elop and Myerson too, and he was the only one there even vaguely suitable for the gig.
So you're unable to prove the Xbox isn't profitable :) Good to know when reading your opinion. Over they are still paying off RROD, but each year they are profiting and operating in the black. PS cannot say that. That isn't damage control when its a fact.
So you're unable to prove the Xbox isn't profitable :) Good to know when reading your opinion. Over they are still paying off RROD, but each year they are profiting and operating in the black. PS cannot say that. That isn't damage control when its a fact.
Yes, we cannot tell how the Xbone is doing. Thank you for making my point.
So you're unable to prove the Xbox isn't profitable :) Good to know when reading your opinion. Over they are still paying off RROD, but each year they are profiting and operating in the black. PS cannot say that. That isn't damage control when its a fact.
Yes, we cannot tell how the Xbone is doing. Thank you for making my point.
So you're unable to prove the Xbox isn't profitable :) Good to know when reading your opinion. Over they are still paying off RROD, but each year they are profiting and operating in the black. PS cannot say that. That isn't damage control when its a fact.
Yes, we cannot tell how the Xbone is doing. Thank you for making my point.
I really hope they don't exit the TV market, I'm almost certain they won't...Sony in my honest opinion makes the best TVs on the market....samsung is fine but my sony tv is way better than my samsung. I'm sure the PS4 will help Sony.
I'm pretty sure they've announced that the TV division will be spun off to a wholly owned subsidiary in the near future. Not sure of the details, but I'll grab some more info (if available) a bit later. *EDIT* They expect the split to be finalized by July.
As for the report. Well, at least they didn't come in below their revised projections, ala Nintendo, but shareholders have every reason to be ticked. Costs related to their PC exit made up the majority of this years losses and are projected to wipe out a potential profit next year and turn it to a loss. How on earth can dumping a flagging brand be this expensive and take this long? Sony gonna Sony.
Nothing remarkable about the video gaming portion, except the $60 million writeoff for SOE. Did they have some MMOs crash and burn this year or something? Considering that charge, and being in the biggest loss leader portion of the console gen, the numbers for the division look pretty strong.
Gaming division made a profit of $400 million. That's with the launch of Xbox One. Gaming division has been profitable per year for 6 straight years. Slowing plugging away at the RROD debt, but operating in the black on a yearly basis. Its far from the backbone of MS profits, but its not an eye sore either.
This. I told you. Since 2008 Xbox has made profit.
Gaming division made a profit of $400 million. That's with the launch of Xbox One. Gaming division has been profitable per year for 6 straight years. Slowing plugging away at the RROD debt, but operating in the black on a yearly basis. Its far from the backbone of MS profits, but its not an eye sore either.
This. I told you. Since 2008 Xbox has made profit.
Yeah. Its a long road back from recouping the RROD stuff, but Xbox gaming division have been profitable for years now. I think in 2 years they will be doing very well.
I don't know how Sony is still around honestly. I enjoyed the PS3 and currently enjoying the PS4 but I haven't seen them make money as a whole in awhile.
You lose 500 euros. Now, next 4 year you earn 100 euros profit(4 years).
How big is loss? 100 euros.
Right now Xbox One is making profit. Same thing with Xbox 360. Just Red Ring was huge massive billions loss. Now they making profit and earned more than red ring did to microsoft, it just takes time.
Is the X1 making a profit? They have been dropping prices and including software. They may have been at a profit point with the initial cost but they do have to pay for the R & D and manufacturing. Dropping prices doesn't help.
Anyway your example is very simple and naive and not what my post was about.
Yes, Xbox One is making a profit(the only console, PS4 and Wii U sells at loss).
Red Ring time is over. 2007 loss was bigger then 2008-2013 profit, but after 2013 they been earning more money than Red Ring loss ever cost to them.
I really hope they don't exit the TV market, I'm almost certain they won't...Sony in my honest opinion makes the best TVs on the market....samsung is fine but my sony tv is way better than my samsung. I'm sure the PS4 will help Sony.
They're one of the finest TV makers out there, it just happens that they are also one of the most expensive TV providers.
Samsung offers pretty much the same for much less. Which is why they dominate the TV market.
It feels like Sony started going downhill right when the economy started to as well...around 2006-2008. I think its because Sony makes luxury high end (expensive) products that the common man no longer could afford.
Sony has been struggling since early 00's maybe even before that.
@MonsieurX said:
@FreedomFreeLife said:
Oh, did not read. ITS A WHOLE YEAR.
Sony = $1.25 billion loss
Nintedo = $456 million loss
Nintendo = $21.86 billion profit
Now if you look at M$ gaming division,it's another story.
Windows and Office is pumping all the cash for Microsoft,not the xbox.
I don't know about last year but the 5 years before that Xbox has made a profit.
Microsoft may be losing $2 billion a year on the Xbox franchise. The loses are masked by the influx of Android patent royalties (FAT filesystem). Monies from both areas funnel into the Entertainment and Devices Division. -Source
Analyst Rick Sherlund believes that staggering losses on the Xbox business are being masked by Android royalties.
We using analysis as facts now are we.
No, not per se, that is why I used the operative may. These analysts aren't alone, other high level executives have expressed interest in cutting the Xbox franchise. Obviously this wouldn't even be up for discussion if the division was healthy.
All this stuff makes me thankful that there is even 1 let alone 3 companies who make dedicated video game machines....for some reason despite the strong sales, video game companies somehow manage to lose a lot of money. Xbox loses as much money as Sony, I think that XBL just helps out A LOT. And I also feel like the development cycles are WAYYYYYYY too long. I don't even belied any release dates anymore because most of the time games get pushed back. There only seems to be 2-3 quality big name releases per year. GTA 5 got pushed back multiple times, Wii U barely ever releases anything decent, my PS4 is waiting for new releases, my xbox one collected dust. People want to buy games, more pressure should be put on developers to actually make them. I bet the people over at Bethesda are playing frisbee right now after their 2 hour lunch break instead of working on Fallout 4.
I really hope they don't exit the TV market, I'm almost certain they won't...Sony in my honest opinion makes the best TVs on the market....samsung is fine but my sony tv is way better than my samsung. I'm sure the PS4 will help Sony.
They're one of the finest TV makers out there, it just happens that they are also one of the most expensive TV providers.
Samsung offers pretty much the same for much less. Which is why they dominate the TV market.
Lies. You currently can get a '40 for $500. The same price as any other competitor. Furthermore, you can upgrade to a '48 for an extremely low price of $150 extra.
Who's actually making money and who is losing a mint? Just came back from seeing Spiderman 2. Was ok, but no even Captain America was better overall. It has nothing on the Marvel films. Sony will need this film to make over $600 million this time around.
@Sweenix: Except Samsung tv's are no longer much less. They cost about the same now. Yet Sonys tv's are still better. The difference is Samsung still makes more profit on each tv.
Sony is hurting but its not something gamers should revel in. Granted if sony declares bankruptcy they will reorganize and keep their beneficial divisions such as the playstation. So i dont believe the playstation brand is any real danger regardless. But MS put sony in check at the beginning of last gen, this gen Sony put MS in check. Both the xbox and playstation divisions staying healthy is good for us gamers, anyone that thinks otherwise is a damn moron.
@shawn30: It already shaped the PS4, hence the reason they are not losing 240$ on each console like last gen. I'm not sure what negative impact you think it will have on them going forward. MS has all this profit yet still couldn't manage to build hardware on par with Sony. Now Wtf does that tell you about MS?
I really hope they don't exit the TV market, I'm almost certain they won't...Sony in my honest opinion makes the best TVs on the market....samsung is fine but my sony tv is way better than my samsung. I'm sure the PS4 will help Sony.
They're one of the finest TV makers out there, it just happens that they are also one of the most expensive TV providers.
Samsung offers pretty much the same for much less. Which is why they dominate the TV market.
Lies. You currently can get a '40 for $500. The same price as any other competitor. Furthermore, you can upgrade to a '48 for an extremely low price of $150 extra.
Samsung is overhyped. They make you think you're paying less for more when the opposite is actually true.
Samsung does tend to put out better quality panels at a better price. Price per inch is one thing, but when you talk of panel quality, sony hasnt been very competitive and largely rely on the brand name. Hell vizio is the #1 seller for flatscreens in the USA and they license their panels from the big boys like sony and samsung, they just operate on razor thin margins. Sony i think wrongly has built in far too much of a brand price premium, which back in the days of discmans and walkmans made sense... but today when consumers can read amazon customer reviews and tech site reviews, they tend to opt for a better value offbrand whether its a chinese company or a samsung/sharp, Sony are foolishly overvaluing their brand name imo.
@delta3074: Except the majority of there assets people would buy. The Movie division alone could gather 8 to 11 billion. I never said they weren't bleeding money, that part is obvious. But what does that have to do with the quality of there products. They make great stuff and much of there stuff actually sells but they have razor thin profit margins.
Would you rather they be like Apple? He'll if Apple released a console on par with the PS4 it would have a price tag of $900.
@delta3074: Except the majority of there assets people would buy. The Movie division alone could gather 8 to 11 billion. I never said they weren't bleeding money, that part is obvious. But what does that have to do with the quality of there products. They make great stuff and much of there stuff actually sells but they have razor thin profit margins.
Would you rather they be like Apple? He'll if Apple released a console on par with the PS4 it would have a price tag of $900.
Why would they sell there movie division, it's one of the only Profit making divisions they have and 8-11 billion is too generous, they wouldn't get that amount for it,lol
I really hope they don't exit the TV market, I'm almost certain they won't...Sony in my honest opinion makes the best TVs on the market....samsung is fine but my sony tv is way better than my samsung. I'm sure the PS4 will help Sony.
They're one of the finest TV makers out there, it just happens that they are also one of the most expensive TV providers.
Samsung offers pretty much the same for much less. Which is why they dominate the TV market.
Lies. You currently can get a '40 for $500. The same price as any other competitor. Furthermore, you can upgrade to a '48 for an extremely low price of $150 extra.
Samsung is overhyped. They make you think you're paying less for more when the opposite is actually true.
Samsung does tend to put out better quality panels at a better price. Price per inch is one thing, but when you talk of panel quality, sony hasnt been very competitive and largely rely on the brand name. Hell vizio is the #1 seller for flatscreens in the USA and they license their panels from the big boys like sony and samsung, they just operate on razor thin margins. Sony i think wrongly has built in far too much of a brand price premium, which back in the days of discmans and walkmans made sense... but today when consumers can read amazon customer reviews and tech site reviews, they tend to opt for a better value offbrand whether its a chinese company or a samsung/sharp, Sony are foolishly overvaluing their brand name imo.
Whenever I see a vizio tv, I can 100% see the inferiority in the picture quality, I have a friend who just bought a samsung 55 inch led 1080p smart tv and my 3 year old Sony led tv looks way better. The brights are brighter and the darks are darker. In my opinion Sony always made the best tv's and I honestly feel like they still do, maybe they get panels from the same maker but something they do in the factory makes the picture look better.
@delta3074: Except the majority of there assets people would buy. The Movie division alone could gather 8 to 11 billion. I never said they weren't bleeding money, that part is obvious. But what does that have to do with the quality of there products. They make great stuff and much of there stuff actually sells but they have razor thin profit margins.
Would you rather they be like Apple? He'll if Apple released a console on par with the PS4 it would have a price tag of $900.
Why would they sell there movie division, it's one of the only Profit making divisions they have and 8-11 billion is too generous, they wouldn't get that amount for it,lol
SONY as a whole is worth less than 25 billion,lol
lolno. Stock prices rarely reflect the actual worth of a company. Many well recognized companies trade above their actual value, some trade below.
Sony's market valuation is ~20 billion (probably lower after recent reports) which is the approximate value of all shares of company stock. Of course, in an attempt to fight off their collapsing stock price Sony performed more than one stock buyback so they actually own a significant % of their stock, and no doubt have their own form of "poison pill" measures to keep anyone from attempting a hostile takeover at it's depressed valuation.
Sony's Asset Valuation is ~$149 billion dollars. That's the estimated worth of all of the buildings, businesses, patents/ip rights, brands, inventory, ... everything of value. If you owned Sony, that's around the amount of money you could expect to collect if you sold off all the pieces.
So it's plain to see Sony is worth far more than its current stock price, which is a big reason why you hear a couple notable Sony investors bringing up the idea of selling off certain Sony arms, because they know the actual value of the businesses that make up Sony is not currently reflected in the stock price.
In comparison, their short term debt was at ~$12 billion to begin the year, down form $12.5 billion a year earlier, and their long term debt stood at $8.92 billion, which was down more than 2 billion dollars from the $11 billion they owed one year earlier. Not only is Sony worth a lot more than you assumed, they're actually shedding debt at a fairly brisk pace.
SW likes to pretend they understand Sony's financial situation because they read stock tickers on Yahoo!. Actual corporate finance is not nearly so straightforward.
MS...Xbox profits are down $1 billion.....r & d costs up. Source...MS.
that's to be expected just going into a new console generation though
That doesn't mean much to investors....
if they are investors, they probably know enough about how business works and what to expect.
If you're going to pretend to discuss business and investors then you should know that they don't like waiting for a pay off. And for a few years now the investors have been against the gaming division...ie xbox brand. Which impacts decisions. Which may impact your gaming. Period. Don't post about Sony/Nintendo business problems without allowing MS has them as well. In the last few years they've closed divisions and laid people off as well. Take off those rose colored glasses dude.....
Investers DONT mind waiting for a pay off. Thats why its called an investment. Most investments require a period of waiting before the investors see profit. Anyone who invests in property needs to wait for said property to be built/renovated/sold. Any investor in business needs to wait for it to be built/renovated/sold/liquidated.Its the way the game works.There is nearly always a wait to see profit. What "some" investors dont like, is risk, and negative publicity. Thats why invesotrs want the gaming division deaded, not because it doesnt have potential to make money but because in comparison to the rest of the MS business strategy, its a risk.
I really hope they don't exit the TV market, I'm almost certain they won't...Sony in my honest opinion makes the best TVs on the market....samsung is fine but my sony tv is way better than my samsung. I'm sure the PS4 will help Sony.
They're one of the finest TV makers out there, it just happens that they are also one of the most expensive TV providers.
Samsung offers pretty much the same for much less. Which is why they dominate the TV market.
Lies. You currently can get a '40 for $500. The same price as any other competitor. Furthermore, you can upgrade to a '48 for an extremely low price of $150 extra.
Samsung is overhyped. They make you think you're paying less for more when the opposite is actually true.
Samsung does tend to put out better quality panels at a better price. Price per inch is one thing, but when you talk of panel quality, sony hasnt been very competitive and largely rely on the brand name. Hell vizio is the #1 seller for flatscreens in the USA and they license their panels from the big boys like sony and samsung, they just operate on razor thin margins. Sony i think wrongly has built in far too much of a brand price premium, which back in the days of discmans and walkmans made sense... but today when consumers can read amazon customer reviews and tech site reviews, they tend to opt for a better value offbrand whether its a chinese company or a samsung/sharp, Sony are foolishly overvaluing their brand name imo.
Whenever I see a vizio tv, I can 100% see the inferiority in the picture quality, I have a friend who just bought a samsung 55 inch led 1080p smart tv and my 3 year old Sony led tv looks way better. The brights are brighter and the darks are darker. In my opinion Sony always made the best tv's and I honestly feel like they still do, maybe they get panels from the same maker but something they do in the factory makes the picture look better.
Professional reviewers would disagree, honestly its been a long time since ive seen a sony win a customer choice award from guys like cnet. These sites tend to to have all the best gadgets for measuring whites and black levels, and they are giving their customer choice awards to guys like vizio/LG/samsung/sharp, not sony. Hell even back in the day i think toshiba was putting out better value displays.
@lhughey: You do realize they still have about 50 billion in sellable assets right? Things are by no means pretty but they are far from dead.
They are only sellable if people want to buy them.
People should not see SONY's assets s a guarantee that they can sell things and buy there way out of the crapper, doesn't work like that.
Exactly. Accounting assets are usually not close to what the market would bring during a sell. 50B in assets really means ~10-15B in possible return from those assets. There aren't many companies that want to buy fabs in Japan. Samsung has its own fabs and most other companies would rather produce in Korea or China anyway. Also, many of the assets are in industries that other companies aren't interested in. Heck, many of the assets are probably in industries that Sony doesn't even want to be in anymore.
Another thing to note is that you just can't start selling your valuable assets and expect for the business to run. Valuable sell-able assets are probably valuable to you too. Look around your house, the most valuable things you can sell in a garage sell are probably your refrigerator, washing machine/dryer, computer and furniture. Its hard to live without those things.
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