Sony: PS3 is hard to develop for--on purpose

I will just say:

Interesting strategy

LINKY

A report in the Dr. Dobb's Journal tested the development process of the PlayStation 3 and found that Sony's console is "difficult to program for." The report's authors went on to explain that "software that exploits the Cell's potential requires a development effort significantly greater than traditional platforms."

This is why they've spent 4 years producing KZ2 and some reviewers aren't even making it a AAE!

A report in the Dr. Dobb's Journal tested the development process of the PlayStation 3 and found that Sony's console is "difficult to program for." The report's authors went on to explain that "software that exploits the Cell's potential requires a development effort significantly greater than traditional platforms."

This is why they've spent 4 years producing KZ2 and some reviewers aren't even making it a AAE!

Nomad0404

Lol. "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai.

So we purposely make it a pain in the butt so that we can give the illusion that our platform gets better over time. Sorry, that is just poor thought process to me. At least the article's author also sees it as a dumb move.SpruceCaboose

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]Lol. "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai.

So we purposely make it a pain in the butt so that we can give the illusion that our platform gets better over time. Sorry, that is just poor thought process to me. At least the article's author also sees it as a dumb move.Salt_The_Fries

Lol. "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai.

So we purposely make it a pain in the butt so that we can give the illusion that our platform gets better over time. Sorry, that is just poor thought process to me. At least the article's author also sees it as a dumb move.SpruceCaboose

Exactly, surely you want to get the most from your console early on, right at the beginning of a generation where the step up in hardware performance will be the most noticed??

The time it has taken for the graphics to finally come through has been so long that harware has moved on! Just when Sony start going, "see, we told you it could do it!" is the time when everyone will "go meh, next gen is now being touted" or "I've seen a dozen titles on PC much bigger and more impressive ins cale on PC!".

[QUOTE="Salt_The_Fries"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]Lol. "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai.

So we purposely make it a pain in the butt so that we can give the illusion that our platform gets better over time. Sorry, that is just poor thought process to me. At least the article's author also sees it as a dumb move.SpruceCaboose

Me too, but PS3 is what it is and I'm fine with that

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]Lol. "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai.

So we purposely make it a pain in the butt so that we can give the illusion that our platform gets better over time. Sorry, that is just poor thought process to me. At least the article's author also sees it as a dumb move.DAZZER7

Exactly, surely you want to get the most from your console early on, right at the beginning of a generation where the step up in hardware performance will be the most noticed??

The time it has taken for the graphics to finally come through has been so long that harware has moved on! Just when Sony start going, "see, we told you it could do it!" is the time when everyone will "go meh, next gen is now being touted" or "I've seen a dozen titles on PC much bigger and more impressive ins cale on PC!".

i agree with sony on this why make a console thats just 2 damn easy and bring out the power with in 2 days look at the 360 nothing new besides a pc in a box and you have the ps3 which does need a good work around but it gives the developers to explore a processor thats entirely new and look how its turnin out 2 be its been alot less long then the 360 and yet were starting to see games that looks really really good and i havent seen any 360 games come close the quality of games thats coming out this yearWhiteknight19

I'm sure this was just a mistranslation. I'm sure he meant to say, "We at Sony love puppies and kitties and they say you should buy more PS3's."

[QUOTE="Whiteknight19"]i agree with sony on this why make a console thats just 2 damn easy and bring out the power with in 2 days look at the 360 nothing new besides a pc in a box and you have the ps3 which does need a good work around but it gives the developers to explore a processor thats entirely new and look how its turnin out 2 be its been alot less long then the 360 and yet were starting to see games that looks really really good and i havent seen any 360 games come close the quality of games thats coming out this yearSpruceCaboose

of course we would see inferior games lol its not some processor that u can wrap ur arms around easily and say yes your just 2 easy hint hint lol but the games were seeing now! is starting to get better if not greater then the 360 theres always gonna be a ground breaking code thats gonna make it more better then kZ2

[QUOTE="DAZZER7"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]Lol. "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai.

So we purposely make it a pain in the butt so that we can give the illusion that our platform gets better over time. Sorry, that is just poor thought process to me. At least the article's author also sees it as a dumb move.SpruceCaboose

Exactly, surely you want to get the most from your console early on, right at the beginning of a generation where the step up in hardware performance will be the most noticed??

The time it has taken for the graphics to finally come through has been so long that harware has moved on! Just when Sony start going, "see, we told you it could do it!" is the time when everyone will "go meh, next gen is now being touted" or "I've seen a dozen titles on PC much bigger and more impressive ins cale on PC!".

Yeah, I mean I get the impression they were trying to do something quite innovative in using the Cell, like the fact they were originally going to use 2 Cells, dual HDMI etc. I get the impression they were pursuing all of these features but the 360 kid working on the next desk said "finished!" and they were like "What already?? .."

I think its pretty obvious that they had to make some decisions quickly and the PS3 is the result. They may have been onto something but the 360 messed up their plans because of it's early launch.

I'm sure this was just a mistranslation. I'm sure he meant to say, "We at Sony love puppies and kitties and they say you should buy more PS3's."

Robio_basic

:lol:

Then they succeed. I love kitties

:lol:

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="Whiteknight19"]i agree with sony on this why make a console thats just 2 damn easy and bring out the power with in 2 days look at the 360 nothing new besides a pc in a box and you have the ps3 which does need a good work around but it gives the developers to explore a processor thats entirely new and look how its turnin out 2 be its been alot less long then the 360 and yet were starting to see games that looks really really good and i havent seen any 360 games come close the quality of games thats coming out this yearWhiteknight19

of course we would see inferior games lol its not some processor that u can wrap ur arms around easily and say yes your just 2 easy hint hint lol but the games were seeing now! is starting to get better if not greater then the 360 theres always gonna be a ground breaking code thats gonna make it more better then kZ2

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="Whiteknight19"]i agree with sony on this why make a console thats just 2 damn easy and bring out the power with in 2 days look at the 360 nothing new besides a pc in a box and you have the ps3 which does need a good work around but it gives the developers to explore a processor thats entirely new and look how its turnin out 2 be its been alot less long then the 360 and yet were starting to see games that looks really really good and i havent seen any 360 games come close the quality of games thats coming out this yearWhiteknight19

of course we would see inferior games lol its not some processor that u can wrap ur arms around easily and say yes your just 2 easy hint hint lol but the games were seeing now! is starting to get better if not greater then the 360 theres always gonna be a ground breaking code thats gonna make it more better then kZ2

Why would you hinder the development of games on your platform, it makes no sense. There is no benefit in making the development process tough. By making it accessable early on, allows developers time to spend less time stuck in the development cycle, more games are produced for less cost and it also allows developers to take more risks!

If there is an upper limit to the graphics certain hardware can produce, you want to reach that limit as soon as possible. You want to get the most out of your game straight away. It makes absolutely no sense to 'save' better graphics for later on lol when new hardware will have passed you by!

[QUOTE="DAZZER7"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]Lol. "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai.

So we purposely make it a pain in the butt so that we can give the illusion that our platform gets better over time. Sorry, that is just poor thought process to me. At least the article's author also sees it as a dumb move.SpruceCaboose

Exactly, surely you want to get the most from your console early on, right at the beginning of a generation where the step up in hardware performance will be the most noticed??

The time it has taken for the graphics to finally come through has been so long that harware has moved on! Just when Sony start going, "see, we told you it could do it!" is the time when everyone will "go meh, next gen is now being touted" or "I've seen a dozen titles on PC much bigger and more impressive ins cale on PC!".

I will just say:

Interesting strategy

LINKY

mamkem6

It basically says Sony is $hit at making middleware, JIT complier driver and development tools.. Both ATI and NVIDIA creates JIT complier driver for their many-core stream processors (aka GPUs). Sony just duplicated 3DLabs WildCat VPU (yet another 200GFLOPs programmable GPU) mess.

Maybe they should employ someone who programmed Swiftshader but for OpenGL 3.0.Throwing floating point units at the problem is just half the solution.

PS; Intel Larrabee assimilated some of the key 3DLabs engineers. Let's hope they learn the some lessons from their failed WildCat GPU.

[QUOTE="Nomad0404"]

A report in the Dr. Dobb's Journal tested the development process of the PlayStation 3 and found that Sony's console is "difficult to program for." The report's authors went on to explain that "software that exploits the Cell's potential requires a development effort significantly greater than traditional platforms."

This is why they've spent 4 years producing KZ2 and some reviewers aren't even making it a AAE!

Salt_The_Fries

Kinda old news and yes the strategy backfired since devs, unlike last gen when Sony ruled, do not feel trapped into throwing all resources into making a great game on PS3 and therefore need to put other console dev'ing on the back burner. They found a new, profitable escape from under the Sony thumb - 360 & PC/360 ! :PSecretPolice

i agree with sony on this why make a console thats just 2 damn easy and bring out the power with in 2 days look at the 360 nothing new besides a pc in a box and you have the ps3 which does need a good work around but it gives the developers to explore a processor thats entirely new and look how its turnin out 2 be its been out alot less longer then the 360 and yet were starting to see games that looks really really good and i havent seen any 360 games come close to the quality of games thats coming out this yearWhiteknight19

I can see why they did it, they did the same with the PS2. The PS2 showed visual improvement all the way through it's generation, and they want the PS3 to do the same. For now it looks like the PS3 is improving a lot, at least on it's exclusives. On the X360 they can use the same graphics engine as they used on the previous consoles and PC's and improve them. While the PS3 uses totally new engines to utilize the hardware fully.

Therefor, it's not bad to use 4 years to make KZ2. Gears of war 2 uses the UE3 engine, and that has been improved over a period longer than 4 years. RE4 on the gamecube also took a long time to create. Each console chooses different hardware setup, and to fully exploit each of them, you'll need to create engines for each console.

[QUOTE="Salt_The_Fries"][QUOTE="Nomad0404"]

A report in the Dr. Dobb's Journal tested the development process of the PlayStation 3 and found that Sony's console is "difficult to program for." The report's authors went on to explain that "software that exploits the Cell's potential requires a development effort significantly greater than traditional platforms."

This is why they've spent 4 years producing KZ2 and some reviewers aren't even making it a AAE!

delta3074

[QUOTE="mamkem6"]

ronvalencia

It basically says Sony is $hit at making middleware, JIT complier driver and development tools.. Both ATI and NVIDIA creates JIT complier driver for their many-core stream processors (aka GPUs). Sony just duplicated 3DLabs WildCat VPU (yet another 200GFLOPs programmable GPU) mess.

Maybe they should employ someone who programmed Swiftshader but for OpenGL 3.0.

Well I don't understand any of this what you said, all I know is I buy what I like and I don't care about anything else. Right now I'm OK with PS3 but when that end I'll buy X360 or something else which I will like the most. I do not bother with technical stuff about graphics, gpu, cpu, tools, drivers and I do not want to find out

I can see why they did it, they did the same with the PS2. The PS2 showed visual improvement all the way through it's generation, and they want the PS3 to do the same. For now it looks like the PS3 is improving a lot, at least on it's exclusives. On the X360 they can use the same graphics engine as they used on the previous consoles and PC's and improve them. While the PS3 uses totally new engines to utilize the hardware fully.

Therefor, it's not bad to use 4 years to make KZ2. Gears of war 2 uses the UE3 engine, and that has been improved over a period longer than 4 years. RE4 on the gamecube also took a long time to create. Each console chooses different hardware setup, and to fully exploit each of them, you'll need to create engines for each console.

Martin_G_N

[QUOTE="Salt_The_Fries"][QUOTE="Nomad0404"]

A report in the Dr. Dobb's Journal tested the development process of the PlayStation 3 and found that Sony's console is "difficult to program for." The report's authors went on to explain that "software that exploits the Cell's potential requires a development effort significantly greater than traditional platforms."

This is why they've spent 4 years producing KZ2 and some reviewers aren't even making it a AAE!

delta3074

No I messed up my point I meant NOT EVEN AE no AAE. But if you want to see a review check my signature!

Phil

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="mamkem6"]

mamkem6

It basically says Sony is $hit at making middleware, JIT complier driver and development tools.. Both ATI and NVIDIA creates JIT complier driver for their many-core stream processors (aka GPUs). Sony just duplicated 3DLabs WildCat VPU (yet another 200GFLOPs programmable GPU) mess.

Maybe they should employ someone who programmed Swiftshader but for OpenGL 3.0.

Well I don't understand any of this what you said, all I know is I buy what I like and I don't care about anything else. Right now I'm OK with PS3 but when that end I'll buy X360 or something else which I will like the most. I do not bother with technical stuff about graphics, gpu, cpu, tools, drivers and I do not want to find out

Google the following

1. WildCat 200 GFLOPS

2. Swiftshader 2.01

3. Microsoft Warp10

What Sony has done is what an amateur graphics processor provider would do.Large chunks of ATI (a.k.a.Array Technologies Incorporated)and NVIDIA are software engineers.

Hardware wise, WildCat VPU has potential to compete against ATI and NVIDIA but they failed to deliver it i.e. crap JIT drivers.

Intel X3100 graphics procesor

1. it has 128 scalar stream processors at 500Mhz.

2.poor performance. Geforce 8400 has 16 scalar stream processors at 900 Mhz and kills this Intel junk.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="DAZZER7"]

Exactly, surely you want to get the most from your console early on, right at the beginning of a generation where the step up in hardware performance will be the most noticed??

The time it has taken for the graphics to finally come through has been so long that harware has moved on! Just when Sony start going, "see, we told you it could do it!" is the time when everyone will "go meh, next gen is now being touted" or "I've seen a dozen titles on PC much bigger and more impressive ins cale on PC!".

Myzz617

[QUOTE="Myzz617"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"] My question, is this really what Sony was going for, like did that thought process happen first, or did they just make the PS3 how they wanted it and are now forced to come up with justification for why its so hard to develop for and they came up with this theory after the fact.ronvalencia

Why would you hinder the development of games on your platform, it makes no sense. There is no benefit in making the development process tough. By making it accessable early on, allows developers time to spend less time stuck in the development cycle, more games are produced for less cost and it also allows developers to take more risks!

If there is an upper limit to the graphics certain hardware can produce, you want to reach that limit as soon as possible. You want to get the most out of your game straight away. It makes absolutely no sense to 'save' better graphics for later on lol when new hardware will have passed you by!

DAZZER7

[QUOTE="mamkem6"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

ronvalencia

Google the following

1. WildCat 200 GFLOPS

2. Swiftshader 2.01

3. Microsoft Warp10

What Sony has done is what an amateur graphics processor provider would do.Large chunks of ATI (a.k.a.Array Technologies Incorporated)and NVIDIA are software engineers.

Hardware wise, WildCat VPU has potential to compete against ATI and NVIDIA but they failed to deliver it i.e. crap JIT drivers.

Intel X3100 graphics procesor

1. it has 128 scalar stream processors at 500Mhz.

2.poor performance. Geforce 8400 has 16 scalar stream processors at 900 Mhz and kills this Intel junk.

Thanks for your effort but I'm really a nob when it comes to PC and anything related to it. I just don't understand the meaning of all those professional terms and what they represent. I don't know the difference between CPU and GPU:oops:

that's one of the worst strategies i've ever heard...

they better not do this next gen.