Sony: PS3 is hard to develop for--on purpose

Oh, so many people love to skew words. All he is saying is that you have to use new technology that can show some promise for the future and can hold its own at that point as well. If you have known technology, you only have so far until you plateau or hit a ceiling. I'm not really sure how some here think they can prove him wrong when this gen is far from over. Everything he's talking about remains to be seen.PoppaGamer

"We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

No that is not what he means. He is clutching at straws. "anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do" is just retarded. Like I've said before, what sense does it make to hinder the development process for your console?

As the years go by, any software improvements you make will be left in the dust compared to the industry's hardware improvements.

• Why would you want to hinder the developers goal of achieving the most out of your console?
• Why is 'maxing' out the console bad? (when you reach the hardware's limits you can put more resources into art and gameplay)

Hey guys, this was with PS2 as well.

It's so PS3 gets 3rd party titles first, and in some cases in which it is too troublesome to develop for other consoles, the only title.

It backfired though.

Amateurs will laugh and poke fun at the statement. However, seasoned developers will know exactly what Kaz means--Even i not all agree with the way it's stated (which isn't to say I am one yet, but I get to talk to a bunch nowadays).

Easy development refers to an idiot-proof process that removes a lot of the options for devs to partake of during the development process. The Xbox brand is really no different from any other Microsoft product: it interprets the whim of the developer and the user as much as possible. As a result, it hard-codes a lot of the work that needs to be done into the process. This takes away any chance for versatility on the part of the developer and most certainly leads to cut corners in the products made for the platform.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="Whiteknight19"]i agree with sony on this why make a console thats just 2 damn easy and bring out the power with in 2 days look at the 360 nothing new besides a pc in a box and you have the ps3 which does need a good work around but it gives the developers to explore a processor thats entirely new and look how its turnin out 2 be its been alot less long then the 360 and yet were starting to see games that looks really really good and i havent seen any 360 games come close the quality of games thats coming out this yearWhiteknight19

of course we would see inferior games lol its not some processor that u can wrap ur arms around easily and say yes your just 2 easy hint hint lol but the games were seeing now! is starting to get better if not greater then the 360 theres always gonna be a ground breaking code thats gonna make it more better then kZ2

Ah Kaz you crazy man. You never fail to dissapoint.Burnsmiesta

Indeed :P .

I see where he is coming from and it makes sense but it just ended up screwing a lot of multiplat developers.

Amateurs will laugh and poke fun at the statement. However, seasoned developers will know exactly what Kaz means--Even i not all agree with the way it's stated (which isn't to say I am one yet, but I get to talk to a bunch nowadays).

Easy development refers to an idiot-proof process that removes a lot of the options for devs to partake of during the development process. The Xbox brand is really no different from any other Microsoft product: it interprets the whim of the developer and the user as much as possible. As a result, it hard-codes a lot of the work that needs to be done into the process. This takes away any chance for versatility on the part of the developer and most certainly leads to cut corners in the products made for the platform.

Pariah_001

1. pixel shader/math streaming stalls while texture operations.

2. HDR FP targets + MSAA.

3. Missing Early-Z features.

Better "google" NVAPI, CUDA and NVIDIA PhysX GPU (CUDA 2.0 middleware). The PC NVIDIA GPUs has it's own libCGM in the form of NVAPI or CUDA. Link to NVAPI

"NVAPI is NVIDIA's core software development kit that allows direct access to NVIDIA GPUs and drivers on all windows platforms. NVAPI provides support for categories of operations that range beyond the scope of those found in familiar graphics APIs such as DirectX and OpenGL.

To enable some of DX10.1's features for FarCry 2 PC, Ubisoft used NVIDIA's DX10 extensions.Reference link

"The Ubisoft team wanted to enhance the anti-aliasing through the reading of the multisampled depth Z-buffers, explained Vincent Greco, Worldwide Production Technical Coordinator at Ubisoft. "This feature was enabled by either using DX10.1 or using a DX10.0 extension supported by Nvidia DirectX 10 GPUs"

"I can tell you that one thing we support for sure is reading from the multisample depth buffer [with deferred rendering], which right now seems to be the thing that people are finding interesting in 10.1. And so for the ISVs that are doing that, we're supporting them directly [and exposing the feature to them],"

Like Killzone 2, Farcry 2 uses "deferred rendering". Other engine like UT3 uses deferred shading.

GpGPU workloads on Xbox 360's ATI Xenos and incoming XNA 3.0 beta

A report in the Dr. Dobb's Journal tested the development process of the PlayStation 3 and found that Sony's console is "difficult to program for." The report's authors went on to explain that "software that exploits the Cell's potential requires a development effort significantly greater than traditional platforms."

This is why they've spent 4 years producing KZ2 and some reviewers aren't even making it a AAE!

Nomad0404

I see where he is coming from and it makes sense but it just ended up screwing a lot of multiplat developers.

Tiefster

A report in the Dr. Dobb's Journal tested the development process of the PlayStation 3 and found that Sony's console is "difficult to program for." The report's authors went on to explain that "software that exploits the Cell's potential requires a development effort significantly greater than traditional platforms."

This is why they've spent 4 years producing KZ2 and some reviewers aren't even making it a AAE!

I never really understood how if PS3 had Cell, how it was still on par with the 360 (Graphics)

Crazy Kaz.

Amateurs will laugh and poke fun at the statement. However, seasoned developers will know exactly what Kaz means--Even i not all agree with the way it's stated (which isn't to say I am one yet, but I get to talk to a bunch nowadays).

Easy development refers to an idiot-proof process that removes a lot of the options for devs to partake of during the development process. The Xbox brand is really no different from any other Microsoft product: it interprets the whim of the developer and the user as much as possible. As a result, it hard-codes a lot of the work that needs to be done into the process. This takes away any chance for versatility on the part of the developer and most certainly leads to cut corners in the products made for the platform.

Pariah_001

I'd just like to reitterate this since the point was glossed over.

Saying, "Sony made the PS3 purposely difficult to develop for," is like to the equivilant of saying, "Linux distributors made their operating systems purposefully difficult to use." How is allowing for more versatility on the console conducive to purposefully making it more difficult to develop for?

they should just release a development snk kit to make things easier

[QUOTE="Pariah_001"]

Amateurs will laugh and poke fun at the statement. However, seasoned developers will know exactly what Kaz means--Even i not all agree with the way it's stated (which isn't to say I am one yet, but I get to talk to a bunch nowadays).

Easy development refers to an idiot-proof process that removes a lot of the options for devs to partake of during the development process. The Xbox brand is really no different from any other Microsoft product: it interprets the whim of the developer and the user as much as possible. As a result, it hard-codes a lot of the work that needs to be done into the process. This takes away any chance for versatility on the part of the developer and most certainly leads to cut corners in the products made for the platform.

Pariah_001

I'd just like to reitterate this since the point was glossed over.

Saying, "Sony made the PS3 purposely difficult to develop for," is like to the equivilant of saying, "Linux distributors made their operating systems purposefully difficult to use." How is allowing for more versatility on the console conducive to purposefully making it more difficult to develop for?

He specifically uses the term 'not easy to program for' and talks about devs not accessing the power right away. He doesn't really mention versatility. Just accept on this case it was a stupid statement to make lol.

[QUOTE="Pariah_001"]

Amateurs will laugh and poke fun at the statement. However, seasoned developers will know exactly what Kaz means--Even i not all agree with the way it's stated (which isn't to say I am one yet, but I get to talk to a bunch nowadays).

Easy development refers to an idiot-proof process that removes a lot of the options for devs to partake of during the development process. The Xbox brand is really no different from any other Microsoft product: it interprets the whim of the developer and the user as much as possible. As a result, it hard-codes a lot of the work that needs to be done into the process. This takes away any chance for versatility on the part of the developer and most certainly leads to cut corners in the products made for the platform.

Pariah_001

I'd just like to reitterate this since the point was glossed over.

Saying, "Sony made the PS3 purposely difficult to develop for," is like to the equivilant of saying, "Linux distributors made their operating systems purposefully difficult to use." How is allowing for more versatility on the console conducive to purposefully making it more difficult to develop for?

So PS4 gonna start out with Wii's graphics. Then 10 years later it will surpass PS3 in graphics.

LMAO. Sony doing damage control again

Old news and what's even worse, IT'S JUST PR BS (courtesy of a Ridge Racer fan :lol: ). 8)

[QUOTE="Pariah_001"]

Amateurs will laugh and poke fun at the statement. However, seasoned developers will know exactly what Kaz means--Even i not all agree with the way it's stated (which isn't to say I am one yet, but I get to talk to a bunch nowadays).

Easy development refers to an idiot-proof process that removes a lot of the options for devs to partake of during the development process. The Xbox brand is really no different from any other Microsoft product: it interprets the whim of the developer and the user as much as possible. As a result, it hard-codes a lot of the work that needs to be done into the process. This takes away any chance for versatility on the part of the developer and most certainly leads to cut corners in the products made for the platform.

I'd just like to reitterate this since the point was glossed over.

Saying, "Sony made the PS3 purposely difficult to develop for," is like to the equivilant of saying, "Linux distributors made their operating systems purposefully difficult to use." How is allowing for more versatility on the console conducive to purposefully making it more difficult to develop for?

[QUOTE="KingAsmodai"]Well, Sony's just full of surprises as usual. If you guys recall, the same exact thing had happened with PS2. Games studios were crying their eyeballs out cuz it was hard to develop for, the DVD drive was very well disputed...yet titles just came up better and better and Sony ended up completely dominating the competition. They obviously know what they're doing. ronvalencia

I think Kaz Hirai's actions are proofing PS3's exclusives. If developing on the PS3 was to be a little too easy, the company in development would be caught sleeping on guard. He's just forcing the studios to make some extra efforts while developing.1xcalibur1

A report in the Dr. Dobb's Journal tested the development process of the PlayStation 3 and found that Sony's console is "difficult to program for." The report's authors went on to explain that "software that exploits the Cell's potential requires a development effort significantly greater than traditional platforms."

This is why they've spent 4 years producing KZ2 and some reviewers aren't even making it a AAE!

I remember hearing about this a while back. I still dont understand how this idea ever passed or it maybe damage control. I thought the last thing someone would want to do is make game developers mad since they can put out an amazing game that will most likely push hardware sales.

The funny thing is that Sony gained ground with the original Playstation because it was easy to developer. Developers were having problems developing for the Saturn and N64 and went and found a home at Sony. Now, the tables have turned. That's fine but don't act like its a benefit when it clearly isn't.

I like the Playstation 3, but this is just bad PR spin. Remember when Phil Harrison said that rumble was old tech and nobody wanted it? 2 years later, the Dualshock 3 is now the main controller. Look just admit it Sony. It's hard to develop for. Not the end of world. Keep churning out good games like Killzone and Uncharted. But don't do this PR spin, because honestly Sony, you're not good at spinning negatives into positives.

I find it ridicules people are defending Sony's decision, it just goes to show the lengths brand fanboys will take to protect their product of worship.

RSX's LibCGM (near metal layer) didn't remove RSX's limitation

1. pixel shader/math streaming stalls while texture operations.

2. HDR FP targets + MSAA.

3. Missing Early-Z features.

Better "google" NVAPI, CUDA and NVIDIA PhysX GPU (CUDA 2.0 middleware). The PC NVIDIA GPUs has it's own libCGM in the form of NVAPI or CUDA. Link to NVAPI

"NVAPI is NVIDIA's core software development kit that allows direct access to NVIDIA GPUs and drivers on all windows platforms. NVAPI provides support for categories of operations that range beyond the scope of those found in familiar graphics APIs such as DirectX and OpenGL.

To enable some of DX10.1's features for FarCry 2 PC, Ubisoft used NVIDIA's DX10 extensions.Reference link

"The Ubisoft team wanted to enhance the anti-aliasing through the reading of the multisampled depth Z-buffers, explained Vincent Greco, Worldwide Production Technical Coordinator at Ubisoft. "This feature was enabled by either using DX10.1 or using a DX10.0 extension supported by Nvidia DirectX 10 GPUs"

"I can tell you that one thing we support for sure is reading from the multisample depth buffer [with deferred rendering], which right now seems to be the thing that people are finding interesting in 10.1. And so for the ISVs that are doing that, we're supporting them directly [and exposing the feature to them],"

Like Killzone 2, Farcry 2 uses "deferred rendering". Other engine like UT3 uses deferred shading.

GpGPU workloads on Xbox 360's ATI Xenos and incoming XNA 3.0 beta

ronvalencia

I'm not sure what an architectural quirk has to do with my point on programming difficulty. I suppose you could say one indirectly effects the other, but that doesn't refer to limitations.

He specifically uses the term 'not easy to program for' and talks about devs not accessing the power right away. He doesn't really mention versatility. Just accept on this case it was a stupid statement to make lol.DAZZER7

Sorry, Linux is made for a target group. That group finds Linux easy to use and do things on. Programming for the PS3 is made for Game Developers. If they are the ones saying its complicated and a pain, then its not a similar concept. SpruceCaboose

This logic is more demented than the entity that is Herbert Garrison! :o