"PS4 HUMA architecture: AMD retracts statement, 'will not comment' on PS4 vs. Xbox One"
""During a recent gamescom 2013 interview, an AMD spokesperson made inaccurate statements regarding the details of our semi-custom APU architectures"
All HUMA is that it allows data to be simultaneously shared between GPU and CPU, both consoles gpu and cpu can access their main pool of memory to process data. The fact that X1 supports HSA means that its gpu can see the virtual memory and physical pool and process data from it as well, which means that X1 can support a HUMA like feature as well. Since CPU and GPU share the unified memory pool. HSA allows cpu and gpu to work together with unified memory pool of memory. AMD has been working with HUMA and HSA support with their APU's and to suggest PS4 has HUMA and X1 dont in any form is just dumb
Does this make the PS4 noticeably stronger? If so my mind has been blown if true!
Having an extra cpu core will stabilize frame rates by allowing the PS4's cpu feed more data to the gpu more fluidly. But we have no idea if the the 7th core is partially freed or fully free for dev's to use. Or could it be opened up for another task at hand say VR support.
LOL. Use your logic. Of course that AMD will retract employee's statement about PS4 does have HUMA, Xbone doesn't. They don't want to enter in console war. The hell, AMD developed APU for both consoles. They want to be neutral as possible.
Does this make the PS4 noticeably stronger? If so my mind has been blown if true!
Having an extra cpu core will stabilize frame rates by allowing the PS4's cpu feed more data to the gpu more fluidly. But we have no idea if the the 7th core is partially freed or fully free for dev's to use. Or could it be opened up for another task at hand say VR support.
This is impressive. Having more stable frame rates is nice.
Yes, the majority of the data is stored in the main pool, but the CPU is sending and flushing data on the eSRAM constantly, which is a major bottleneck for the Xbone's CPU. It wastes cycles and puts its real-world performance below the PS4's CPU (Hence why Matt said that PS4 CPU > Xbone CPU). The Xbone also lacks HUMA, which means its CPU has to copy code constantly so that its GPU can read it. The PS4's CPU and GPU can both read off the same memory address.
Yes, you are right: both consoles have the same CPU, but the overall SoC architecture on the PS4 is a gen ahead of the Xbone, meaning the PS4 CPU can process more efficiently than the Xbone.
Now your splitting hairs, cpu has to process the same amount of data either way, the fact that it has to ship some data to the ESRAM isnt even enough to mention especially when the PS4 has to ship data through its onion and garlic buses as well. Your not really wasting cpu cycles since once the data is processed and is stored and gets sent to where it needs to go, thecpu does not have to reprocess it. Also do not go by what "Matt" said , all he said is you can gt more out of PS4's cpu than X1..... which is all about the what the API's allows. And PS4 with its GNM low level API outclasses X1's limited DX11.X API.
The X1 does have its own implementation of HUMA memory system, while its not vanilla HUMA is its pretty much the same. So that misinformation needs to stop. Dev about HUMA PS4 vs X1
"I remember reading something on this when I got my first alpha kit. I pulled up a couple of our internal white papers and it's pretty clear that this was the exact implementation in the Xbox One's memory system."
PS4 cpu isnt a gen ahead of X1 , they are virtually the same, its all about the API features and what it allows. And as of right now both consoles are being held back. Being lack of taking the time and effort for the low level coding or being stonewalled by an API not allowing do to what you should do.
This is incorrect.
The CPUs both process the same quantity of information (Disregarding the minute clockrate differences), but the PS4 CPU can process less data to achieve the same results as the Xbone CPU. Again, you are conflating processing speed with processing efficiency.
If you want to process a certain data like loading a world map and the NPCs, the PS4 CPU and GPU can both read off the same memory address and be done with it.
The Xbone CPU would need to read it, determine if it needs to be sent to the eSRAM, send it to the eSRAM, and then copy certain addresses on the main pool and paste it in an empty area so that the GPU can read off what the CPU is reading. The Xbone needs to do far more than the PS4 CPU to achieve the same results because of the inferior overall architecture.
I'll say it again: Yes, the CPUs have similar total processing power, but the PS4's architecture lets the CPU achieve more with less cycles.
Also, you still haven't answered why TW3 performs better on the PS4 now. What changed?
Yes, the majority of the data is stored in the main pool, but the CPU is sending and flushing data on the eSRAM constantly, which is a major bottleneck for the Xbone's CPU. It wastes cycles and puts its real-world performance below the PS4's CPU (Hence why Matt said that PS4 CPU > Xbone CPU). The Xbone also lacks HUMA, which means its CPU has to copy code constantly so that its GPU can read it. The PS4's CPU and GPU can both read off the same memory address.
Yes, you are right: both consoles have the same CPU, but the overall SoC architecture on the PS4 is a gen ahead of the Xbone, meaning the PS4 CPU can process more efficiently than the Xbone.
Now your splitting hairs, cpu has to process the same amount of data either way, the fact that it has to ship some data to the ESRAM isnt even enough to mention especially when the PS4 has to ship data through its onion and garlic buses as well. Your not really wasting cpu cycles since once the data is processed and is stored and gets sent to where it needs to go, thecpu does not have to reprocess it. Also do not go by what "Matt" said , all he said is you can gt more out of PS4's cpu than X1..... which is all about the what the API's allows. And PS4 with its GNM low level API outclasses X1's limited DX11.X API.
The X1 does have its own implementation of HUMA memory system, while its not vanilla HUMA is its pretty much the same. So that misinformation needs to stop. Dev about HUMA PS4 vs X1
"I remember reading something on this when I got my first alpha kit. I pulled up a couple of our internal white papers and it's pretty clear that this was the exact implementation in the Xbox One's memory system."
PS4 cpu isnt a gen ahead of X1 , they are virtually the same, its all about the API features and what it allows. And as of right now both consoles are being held back. Being lack of taking the time and effort for the low level coding or being stonewalled by an API not allowing do to what you should do.
This is incorrect.
The CPUs both process the same quantity of information (Disregarding the minute clockrate differences), but the PS4 CPU can process less data to achieve the same results as the Xbone CPU. Again, you are conflating processing speed with processing efficiency.
If you want to process a certain data like loading a world map and the NPCs, the PS4 CPU and GPU can both read off the same memory address and be done with it.
The Xbone CPU would need to read it, determine if it needs to be sent to the eSRAM, send it to the eSRAM, and then copy certain addresses on the main pool and paste it in an empty area so that the GPU can read off what the CPU is reading. The Xbone needs to do far more than the PS4 CPU to achieve the same results because of the inferior overall architecture.
I'll say it again: Yes, the CPUs have similar total processing power, but the PS4's architecture lets the CPU achieve more with less cycles.
Also, you still haven't answered why TW3 performs better on the PS4 now. What changed?
Morons not knowing what they're talking about.... Get fuckin rekt kid,
Yes, the majority of the data is stored in the main pool, but the CPU is sending and flushing data on the eSRAM constantly, which is a major bottleneck for the Xbone's CPU. It wastes cycles and puts its real-world performance below the PS4's CPU (Hence why Matt said that PS4 CPU > Xbone CPU). The Xbone also lacks HUMA, which means its CPU has to copy code constantly so that its GPU can read it. The PS4's CPU and GPU can both read off the same memory address.
Yes, you are right: both consoles have the same CPU, but the overall SoC architecture on the PS4 is a gen ahead of the Xbone, meaning the PS4 CPU can process more efficiently than the Xbone.
Now your splitting hairs, cpu has to process the same amount of data either way, the fact that it has to ship some data to the ESRAM isnt even enough to mention especially when the PS4 has to ship data through its onion and garlic buses as well. Your not really wasting cpu cycles since once the data is processed and is stored and gets sent to where it needs to go, thecpu does not have to reprocess it. Also do not go by what "Matt" said , all he said is you can gt more out of PS4's cpu than X1..... which is all about the what the API's allows. And PS4 with its GNM low level API outclasses X1's limited DX11.X API.
The X1 does have its own implementation of HUMA memory system, while its not vanilla HUMA is its pretty much the same. So that misinformation needs to stop. Dev about HUMA PS4 vs X1
"I remember reading something on this when I got my first alpha kit. I pulled up a couple of our internal white papers and it's pretty clear that this was the exact implementation in the Xbox One's memory system."
PS4 cpu isnt a gen ahead of X1 , they are virtually the same, its all about the API features and what it allows. And as of right now both consoles are being held back. Being lack of taking the time and effort for the low level coding or being stonewalled by an API not allowing do to what you should do.
This is incorrect.
The CPUs both process the same quantity of information (Disregarding the minute clockrate differences), but the PS4 CPU can process less data to achieve the same results as the Xbone CPU. Again, you are conflating processing speed with processing efficiency.
If you want to process a certain data like loading a world map and the NPCs, the PS4 CPU and GPU can both read off the same memory address and be done with it.
The Xbone CPU would need to read it, determine if it needs to be sent to the eSRAM, send it to the eSRAM, and then copy certain addresses on the main pool and paste it in an empty area so that the GPU can read off what the CPU is reading. The Xbone needs to do far more than the PS4 CPU to achieve the same results because of the inferior overall architecture.
I'll say it again: Yes, the CPUs have similar total processing power, but the PS4's architecture lets the CPU achieve more with less cycles.
Also, you still haven't answered why TW3 performs better on the PS4 now. What changed?
Morons not knowing what they're talking about.... Get fuckin rekt kid,
Move Engines only help the CPU move data to the eSRAM; it doesn't relieve using the CPU to transfer data to the eSRAM. The CPU still has to determine if the data gets moved to the eSRAM, which wastes cycles.
You have been exposed as an Xbox fanboy shouting vocabulary you do not understand.
Now your splitting hairs, cpu has to process the same amount of data either way, the fact that it has to ship some data to the ESRAM isnt even enough to mention especially when the PS4 has to ship data through its onion and garlic buses as well. Your not really wasting cpu cycles since once the data is processed and is stored and gets sent to where it needs to go, thecpu does not have to reprocess it. Also do not go by what "Matt" said , all he said is you can gt more out of PS4's cpu than X1..... which is all about the what the API's allows. And PS4 with its GNM low level API outclasses X1's limited DX11.X API.
The X1 does have its own implementation of HUMA memory system, while its not vanilla HUMA is its pretty much the same. So that misinformation needs to stop. Dev about HUMA PS4 vs X1
"I remember reading something on this when I got my first alpha kit. I pulled up a couple of our internal white papers and it's pretty clear that this was the exact implementation in the Xbox One's memory system."
PS4 cpu isnt a gen ahead of X1 , they are virtually the same, its all about the API features and what it allows. And as of right now both consoles are being held back. Being lack of taking the time and effort for the low level coding or being stonewalled by an API not allowing do to what you should do.
This is incorrect.
The CPUs both process the same quantity of information (Disregarding the minute clockrate differences), but the PS4 CPU can process less data to achieve the same results as the Xbone CPU. Again, you are conflating processing speed with processing efficiency.
If you want to process a certain data like loading a world map and the NPCs, the PS4 CPU and GPU can both read off the same memory address and be done with it.
The Xbone CPU would need to read it, determine if it needs to be sent to the eSRAM, send it to the eSRAM, and then copy certain addresses on the main pool and paste it in an empty area so that the GPU can read off what the CPU is reading. The Xbone needs to do far more than the PS4 CPU to achieve the same results because of the inferior overall architecture.
I'll say it again: Yes, the CPUs have similar total processing power, but the PS4's architecture lets the CPU achieve more with less cycles.
Also, you still haven't answered why TW3 performs better on the PS4 now. What changed?
Morons not knowing what they're talking about.... Get fuckin rekt kid,
Move Engines only help the CPU move data to the eSRAM; it doesn't relieve the using the CPU to transfer data to the eSRAM. The CPU still has to determine if the data gets moved to the eSRAM, which wastes cycles.
Negative.
"Move Engines are Fixed Function processors in the Xbox One that are meant to reduce the overhead on the CPU and GPU, andALSO HELP transport data from the system memory to the eSRAM."
All this bullshit overhead you've been talking about with transporting things here and there and double cycles etc, all that shit is handled by the move engine, no cycles are wasted, you're just talking out of your ass.
The CPUs both process the same quantity of information (Disregarding the minute clockrate differences), but the PS4 CPU can process less data to achieve the same results as the Xbone CPU. Again, you are conflating processing speed with processing efficiency.
If you want to process a certain data like loading a world map and the NPCs, the PS4 CPU and GPU can both read off the same memory address and be done with it.
The Xbone CPU would need to read it, determine if it needs to be sent to the eSRAM, send it to the eSRAM, and then copy certain addresses on the main pool and paste it in an empty area so that the GPU can read off what the CPU is reading. The Xbone needs to do far more than the PS4 CPU to achieve the same results because of the inferior overall architecture.
I'll say it again: Yes, the CPUs have similar total processing power, but the PS4's architecture lets the CPU achieve more with less cycles.
Also, you still haven't answered why TW3 performs better on the PS4 now. What changed?
Morons not knowing what they're talking about.... Get fuckin rekt kid,
Move Engines only help the CPU move data to the eSRAM; it doesn't relieve the using the CPU to transfer data to the eSRAM. The CPU still has to determine if the data gets moved to the eSRAM, which wastes cycles.
Negative.
"Move Engines are Fixed Function processors in the Xbox One that are meant to reduce the overhead on the CPU and GPU, andALSO HELP transport data from the system memory to the eSRAM."
lol... It's like you guys are trying so desperately to defend Xbone's POS architecture.
I know perfectly well what move engines are, and I'm telling you that however well they help the CPU transfer data between the split memory pools, it is still much inferior to having a single huge high bandwidth memory pool where you don't need to transfer anything. Move engines or not, the Xbone CPU has to waste cycles moving data to and from the eSRAM.
Yea so whats your twisted logic have to do with ignoring facts? X1 current API is also missing quite a few of the main features that is coming up in DX12. That tid bit you seem to ignore.....
Again love how you seem to totally ignore that even the 360 API follows the same flaw is in the X1 current API and the same as DX11... which limits one core to directly communicate to the gpu being the funnel bottlenecking the flow of data. Hence the reason why PS4 cant sustain solid framerates in most multiplats. and affecting the X1 to a degree as well.
There is nothing missing on xbox one Tomb Raider is an async shader game like Infamous is,that game wasn't develop in 1 month it took 2+ years to make,i have being telling you that async shader was expose on xbox one since summer 2014 by ASK the fact that no developer had use doesn't mean it didn't support it.
FACT IS 99% OF PS4 GAMES DON'T USE ASYNC SHADERS.
Regardless of the PS4 supporting async shaders from day 1,is up to the developer to use async compute on both,so yeah the xbox one isn't missing anything is not being use period much like on PS4.
BF4,BFH,Infamous,SWBF3 are the only 4 games that support which are out now,out of more than 200 or 300 games when the PS4 support it since launch it is pretty clear it wasn't being use on either platform the xbox one was just a little late to the party.
Yet the 360 API didn't have problems with draw calls like DX9 had on PC odd isn't it, stated by AMD it self consoles gaved PC a run for their money on CPU usage and is not just related to draw calls multicore coding is something that took off way faster on console than on PC way faster,when PC started to use 2 cores the 360 was using 3 and 6 threads.
The PS4 can't sustain them for the same reason the 750TI can't either even with an i3 it drops in many games,on Project Cars it was quite obvious,funny thing in SWBF the PS4 also beat the 750ti with an i3 which is quite something considering that i3 is way more efficient than the Jaguar inside the PS4,something DF noted as console optimization being the reason for the gap.
Fact is the game was broken and when fixed the xbox one fell behind natural order was restore and lemmings who used the witcher looked at sad as you did.
@04dcarraher said:
funny when someone pokes holes in the delusions of fanboys you get labeled as a fanboy of the other team..... how hilarious
Again dont ignore the main problem with PS4 and using single or deferred threading for gpu, its cpu cant keep up with the gpu, when using those methods and they have to compromise and fix things to get it to work correctly.
X1 does not have to feed the stronger gpu hence why in cpu prone areas the X1 seen less hits in framerate vs PS4. whats is the delusion about the X1 cpu being being faster does not help or having that extra core?
poor el tormentos your lack of reading comprehension skills and blind fanboyism is getting the way seeing the facts and what people re actually saying . Your the Don Quixote of the Sony fanboys.
You don't poke hole you just insert total bullshit and ignore any evidence presented to you.
The main problem is developers not wanting to go the extra mile,it has shown on pathetic games that would run on a last gen console at 30FPS and this gen they still do even when ported with basically few upgrades.
The xbox one getting a lower hit in frames is total bullshit,and it has being prove the games that suffer this shit are always games in which MS has a freaking deal with the developer,so ACU ran at 30 with more things than ACS with less how the fu** is that possible,less object on screen lower draw calls fewer things for the GPU to render yeah that scream the freaking xbox one should run even faster than in Unity because it has less hit on the CPU and less hit on the GPU to,but some how it doesn't oh wait i remember now MS doesn't have a deal for ACS,just like last year some how COD ran better on xbox one in single player,but this year is doesn't odd isn't oh wait it was the same shit for Ghost to so what changed.? Oh waits MS doesn't have have exclusivity for COD any more odd isn't.?
So does MS has a clause preventing games which have deals or are advertised on xbox one from running better on PS4.? How about the witcher 3 another game which was showcase on xbox one.
And this is the problem with frames on PS4 most if not all the games which some how perform better have a deal on MS platform funny isn't,hell COD is faster online on PS4 and is online where the CPU works more so how is that possible.?
Is the fact that you are to butthurt and blind to admit being wrong,fact is 150mhz will not amount to shit in game,1 frame if anything and i prove that with stronger CPU being downclock 800mhz or more and producing 1 or 2 frames and in some cases NON.
@04dcarraher said:
PS4 uses AMD's exact "vanilla" version of HUMA, While the X1 has its own modified version of the same feature this is why AMD said what he/she said. Its not "HUMA" but really it is.
Dev looking into the PS4 vs X1 no "HUMA" but with its own version.
""I remember reading something on this when I got my first alpha kit. I pulled up a couple of our internal white papers and it's pretty clear that this was the exact implementation in the Xbox One's memory system."
The xbox one is not HUMA neither is a true HSA design thanks to its split memory post a link to that quote dude.
In HUMA both the GPU and CPU can see the same data all the time and have access to the same memory address.
On xbox one that is not the case when data is on ESRAM the CPU can't see it,the CPU has no access to ESRAM there for there is no HUMA while data is on DDR3 both CPU and GPU can see it problem is the xbox one needs to constantly use ESRAM and nothing there can't be seeing by the CPU.
The PS4 doesn't have that problem it only has 1 memory address which can be access by both GPU and CPU.
lol... It's like you guys are trying so desperately to defend Xbone's POS architecture.
I know perfectly well what move engines are, and I'm telling you that however well they help the CPU transfer data between the split memory pools, it is still much inferior to having a single huge high bandwidth memory pool where you don't need to transfer anything. Move engines or not, the Xbone CPU has to waste cycles moving data to and from the eSRAM.
No it does not, it's sent off from the CPU with instructions and the move engines parse the data to where it's needed, these afterthought calculations are performed by them, not the CPU, there's no wasted cycles.
Your entire argument was predicated on something you completely forgot about or didn't know about in the first place, the move engines completely negate everything you've said.
@acp_45: if you just disagree then again....why do have reply with "my Xbox is fun" with a post that just said PS4 is fun.
Was it that big of a deal?
Did everyone have to understand that "hey just bc this guy says the PS4 is fun doesn't mean the Xbox isn't fun."
You seem like a fanboy just like everyone else and to act high and mighty as if you're not.....then go be the chosen one on your own time....stop involving me.
And now the Xbox One just got a new OS (Windows 10) and API (DX12)? Which MS new from the very begging would be coming the the Xbox One, considering just how long they had been developing DX12.
The OS and API the Xbox launched with was never meant to be anything but a stand in, until they were ready. Why do you think the original OS and API was so badly made, MS just modified it and chucked it in there.
DX12 and windows 10 will not change anything on xbox one if anything the xbox one OS is more lightweight than windows 10,just like the xbox 360 os was lighter than windows on pc and ran on 32MB could you run windows vista on that.?
@HalcyonScarlet said:
Well yes. Both Sony and MS were always going to continue to make their OS, api and drivers more efficient. The OS will get smaller and leave a smaller footprint on the RAM in both machines.
My question is, why was this core disabled for games in the first place. I can see how it would be on the Xbox One, because of Kinect and all that stuff.
Simple the reservations Sony made were done in order to future proof the unit,just like the PS4 has 3gb of memory for OS that is a hell of allow for free BSD OS which ran on 50MB on PS3 and was quite functional.
The 2 cores and 3GB of memory were put in place just in case the xbox one got a feature like Party Chat last gen where the PS3 could not do it because sony shrinked the OS memory to much,is call playing it safe,but as we have see already MS killed that reservation in order to get more CPU out of the xbox one,so there is no reason for sony to keep it in the air when it can get a use for it.
The original Xbox One OS and API weren't good at all. The os was slow, clunky, bloated and generally a mess. I very much doubt it is more lightweight than the version of Windows 10 they put on it.
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I also doubt Sony put in extra cores 'just in case of emergency'. They new exactly what MS had way before anyone else and matched it. What ever their reasons are, they are their own.
The 3GBs on the PS4, like the Xbox One, is likely that big because they haven't had time to optimise it yet. Last gen, neither did that until much later on.
So much denial about what DX12 fixes and introduces..... and grasping on the hyperbole to continue to bash.
Again X1 is not using parallel/direct async cpu communication ...... its only using async compute ie using the gpus ACE unit on the gpu itself tocompute volumetric lights and shadows. Its not the same league as the Async shading done with the other async games on PS4 or Mantle using all cpu cores talking to gpu and ACE units doing much more.
omg, the X1 having ESRAM means squat in preventing the cpu&gpu using DDR3 segment pool with HSA/HUMA features since that pool of memory is unified.
"The CPU cache block attaches to the GPU MMU, which drives the entire graphics core and video engine. Of particular interest for our purposes is this bit: “CPU, GPU, special processors, and I/O share memory via host-guest MMUs and synchronized page tables.” If Microsoft is using synchronized page tables, this strongly suggests that the Xbox One supports HSA/hUMA and that we were mistaken in our assertion to the contrary. Mea culpa."
Which games run worse on the i3/750Ti setup, and how will it be left "in the dust"? You're also forgetting DX12...
Just off the top of my head, Mgs5 and Star wars battlefront, and i'm sure there's more. Some PC games now don't even boot with a dual core cpu btw. A PC with those parts will not last the generation, it's already not good enough as I said some games won't even boot like Far cry 4.
It'll be left in the dust because that's what happens to PC hardware, and more developers will take advantage of Ps4's hardware. Take last gen for example, try to run later games on the 7900gtx, a gpu better than what's in the Ps3. Either it wasn't supported or games ran worse than on Ps3 because of dying support. And that was a better gpu, the 750 ti is worse.
lol... It's like you guys are trying so desperately to defend Xbone's POS architecture.
I know perfectly well what move engines are, and I'm telling you that however well they help the CPU transfer data between the split memory pools, it is still much inferior to having a single huge high bandwidth memory pool where you don't need to transfer anything. Move engines or not, the Xbone CPU has to waste cycles moving data to and from the eSRAM.
No it does not, it's sent off from the CPU with instructions and the move engines parse the data to where it's needed, these afterthought calculations are performed by them, not the CPU, there's no wasted cycles.
Your entire argument was predicated on something you completely forgot about or didn't know about in the first place, the move engines completely negate everything you've said.
This is incorrect. The Move engines are only there to copy & paste data between the 2 memory pools. The Move Engines alone don't determine what goes where, and so the Xbone CPU is still bottle-necked with double-reading data. The Move Engines only saves the Xbone CPU from pasting data, not from double-reading. This is why Matt said PS4 CPU > Xbone CPU in real life.
The PS4 doesn't have this bottleneck, because it has 8 GB of highbandwidth memory, so devs can just dump everything on its pool and not have to worry about the CPU deciding what goes where.
lol... It's like you guys are trying so desperately to defend Xbone's POS architecture.
I know perfectly well what move engines are, and I'm telling you that however well they help the CPU transfer data between the split memory pools, it is still much inferior to having a single huge high bandwidth memory pool where you don't need to transfer anything. Move engines or not, the Xbone CPU has to waste cycles moving data to and from the eSRAM.
No it does not, it's sent off from the CPU with instructions and the move engines parse the data to where it's needed, these afterthought calculations are performed by them, not the CPU, there's no wasted cycles.
Your entire argument was predicated on something you completely forgot about or didn't know about in the first place, the move engines completely negate everything you've said.
This is incorrect. The Move engines are only there to copy & paste data between the 2 memory pools. The Move Engines alone don't determine what goes where, and so the Xbone CPU is still bottle-necked with double-reading data. The Move Engines only saves the Xbone CPU from pasting data, not from double-reading. This is why Matt said PS4 CPU > Xbone CPU in real life.
The PS4 doesn't have this bottleneck, because it has 8 GB of highbandwidth memory, so devs can just dump everything on its pool and not have to worry about the CPU deciding what goes where.
No...
"No it does not, it's sent off from the CPUwith instructions and the move engines parse the data to where it's needed, these afterthought calculations are performed by them, not the CPU, there's no wasted cycles.
Which games run worse on the i3/750Ti setup, and how will it be left "in the dust"? You're also forgetting DX12...
Just off the top of my head, Mgs5 and Star wars battlefront, and i'm sure there's more. Some PC games now don't even boot with a dual core cpu btw. A PC with those parts will not last the generation, it's already not good enough as I said some games won't even boot like Far cry 4.
It'll be left in the dust because that's what happens to PC hardware, and more developers will take advantage of Ps4's hardware. Take last gen for example, try to run later games on the 7900gtx, a gpu better than what's in the Ps3. Either it wasn't supported or games ran worse than on Ps3 because of dying support. And that was a better gpu, the 750 ti is worse.
Depending how well a game is coded and demanding an i3 can be enough , however it is still a dual core and can limit performance.
Most benchmarks such as BF or MGS5 tends to use settings above what the PS4 is using, ie resolution and or graphical settings. At 900p 750ti can handle MSG5 on full high settings with near 60 fps average, and with BF with 1080p full high settings 750ti can handle 50 fps average. So the GTX 750ti is abit weaker than PS4 gpu but not by a whole lot, less than 25%.
Here is the flaw with your argument, PS4's hardware is nothing like what the 360 was or PS3 was in 2005/2006. PS4 is only sporting a low clocked AMD 8 core cpu with only 6-7 cores available and a gpu close slower than a 7870 type gpu. You using 7900GTX is not a valid example since that series was last gpu architecture not to use a unified shader architecture. When the 360 was the first marketed unified shader architecture gpu and PS3 had the Cell to augment the RSX.
Which games run worse on the i3/750Ti setup, and how will it be left "in the dust"? You're also forgetting DX12...
Just off the top of my head, Mgs5 and Star wars battlefront, and i'm sure there's more. Some PC games now don't even boot with a dual core cpu btw. A PC with those parts will not last the generation, it's already not good enough as I said some games won't even boot like Far cry 4.
It'll be left in the dust because that's what happens to PC hardware, and more developers will take advantage of Ps4's hardware. Take last gen for example, try to run later games on the 7900gtx, a gpu better than what's in the Ps3. Either it wasn't supported or games ran worse than on Ps3 because of dying support. And that was a better gpu, the 750 ti is worse.
Most benchmarks such as BF or MGS5 tends to use settings above what the PS4 is using, ie resolution and or graphical settings. At 900p 750ti can handle MSG5 on full high settings with near 60 fps average, and with BF with 1080p full high settings 750ti can handle 50 fps average. So the GTX 750ti is abit weaker than PS4 gpu but not by a whole lot, less than 25%.
No they don't. Digital foundry can't figure out exactly what settings the PS4 versions use and they approximate it, if anything they turn some things down. Certainly the 750i doesn't run games at higher resolutions in these comparisons. Battefront performed worse at 900p compared to Ps4 (and that's with a 200mhz overclock on the 750ti), and Ps4 runs Mgs5 at locked 1080p/60.
My 7900gtx comparison wasn't meant to be perfect, the point is older PC hardware loses support as time goes on. The 750ti will get left behind for other reasons like only having 2gb of memory, weaker than ps4, this 7th core and more memory being unlocked in Ps4 etc etc. And just the fact that older hardware inevitably loses support on PC. It's already an inferior set up today, I only brought it up because people act like it beats the PS4 in everything and it's all you need for the whole generation.
No they don't. Digital foundry can't figure out exactly what settings the PS4 versions use and they approximate it, if anything they turn some things down. Certainly the 750i doesn't run games at higher resolutions in these comparisons. Battefront performed worse at 900p compared to Ps4 (and that's with a 200mhz overclock on the 750ti), and Ps4 runs Mgs5 at locked 1080p/60.
My 7900gtx comparison wasn't meant to be perfect, the point is older PC hardware loses support as time goes on. The 750ti will get left behind for other reasons like only having 2gb of memory, weaker than ps4, this 7th core and more memory being unlocked in Ps4 etc etc. And just the fact that older hardware inevitably loses support on PC. It's already an inferior set up today, I only brought it up because people act like it beats the PS4 in everything and it's all you need for the whole generation.
Dont go by DF solely , you can tell right off the bat that BF is using a slew of medium, high and few ultra settings, GTX 750ti paired with a quad core or better can achieve at 1080p with full high settings average 50 fps, so if they could find out the exact settings 750ti would be virtually on par with PS4 at 900p using more than an i3. Now MSG5 with other tests done else where show GTX 750ti using a mix of high and extra high settings gets 50-55fps at 1080p with an i3 4150. It all depends on the configuration and loads, The 750ti and PS4 gpu aren't that far apart performance wise. Compared to 7870 we are talking about 25% difference there.
Its not the older hardware that loses support its the obsolete and slower ones do. Almost all Direct x 11 based gpus will be supported in DX12 and any other new API, and this includes the 750ti. So as long as the shader model 5 hardware is supported GCN based gpu's and Maxwell based gpu's will be fine ie gtx 750ti is maxwell. DX12 will provide massive performance gains on pc so an i3 gtx 750ti will see a sizable boost.
The 2gb buffer can be an issue if games aren't coded well with memory management, but PS4 uses 3gb or less for gpu vram depending on other allocation needs. 7th core wont do much besides stabilizing averages.
When you buy low end you get low end. But the thing is that in 2010+ if you bought a good cpu ie i5 or i7 your fine and wont have an issue and if you have a high end 2012 gpu like 7970 or 7950 etc your going to out class the PS4 through its whole life. Now we have gpus like the GTX 950 which surpass the PS4 while costing same price at 750ti did awhile back.
But yeah an i3 and gtx 750ti combo performance is dependent on coding quality, requirements needed, so it just depends on multiple factors. However with DX12 upcoming we shall see how well i3/750ti performs vs PS4 with multiplats
This is the end for the poor XBone.......hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
LOL!! NO!! XB1 isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Doesn't matter what the PS4 does. XB1 will continue to evolve as well.
LOL!! Yes!!
Using old gifs just makes you look even dumber and misinformed. Poor sad fanboy. 5 years from now I'll still be playing the XB1. You'll still be claiming "it's the end of XB1". LOL!! The Wii destroyed the PS3 and XBox 360 is sales. Did they go anywhere? Nope. Keep reaching...
At least this will shut the people up saying the PS4 CPU is the bottleneck compared to the Xbox One.
Now it's more powerful in every way.
In reality I doubt it will change much for the majority of multiplats, but the exclusives will sure get a gain from this. I've never really seen a game on PC use more than 3 or 4 cores
No they don't. Digital foundry can't figure out exactly what settings the PS4 versions use and they approximate it, if anything they turn some things down. Certainly the 750i doesn't run games at higher resolutions in these comparisons. Battefront performed worse at 900p compared to Ps4 (and that's with a 200mhz overclock on the 750ti), and Ps4 runs Mgs5 at locked 1080p/60.
My 7900gtx comparison wasn't meant to be perfect, the point is older PC hardware loses support as time goes on. The 750ti will get left behind for other reasons like only having 2gb of memory, weaker than ps4, this 7th core and more memory being unlocked in Ps4 etc etc. And just the fact that older hardware inevitably loses support on PC. It's already an inferior set up today, I only brought it up because people act like it beats the PS4 in everything and it's all you need for the whole generation.
GTX 750ti paired with a quad core or better can achieve at 1080p with full high settings average 50 fps, so if they could find out the exact settings 750ti would be virtually on par with PS4 at 900p using more than an i3.
Its not the older hardware that loses support its the obsolete and slower ones do. Almost all Direct x 11 based gpus will be supported in DX12 and any other new API, and this includes the 750ti. So as long as the shader model 5 hardware is supported GCN based gpu's and Maxwell based gpu's will be fine ie gtx 750ti is maxwell. DX12 will provide massive performance gains on pc so an i3 gtx 750ti will see a sizable boost.
The 2gb buffer can be an issue if games aren't coded well with memory management, but PS4 uses 3gb or less for gpu vram depending on other allocation needs. 7th core wont do much besides stabilizing averages.
When you buy low end you get low end. But the thing is that in 2010+ if you bought a good cpu ie i5 or i7 your fine and wont have an issue and if you have a high end 2012 gpu like 7970 or 7950 etc your going to out class the PS4 through its whole life. Now we have gpus like the GTX 950 which surpass the PS4 while costing same price at 750ti did awhile back.
But yeah an i3 and gtx 750ti combo performance is dependent on coding quality, requirements needed, so it just depends on multiple factors. However with DX12 upcoming we shall see how well i3/750ti performs vs PS4 with multiplats
Conjecture, and it wouldn't make sense but anyways Mgs5 is a good example of that build's limitations early on, and the card will only fall further behind. On DX12, yes that will help but it'll also help Ps4 games because the low level work will already be done on PC, and right now some Ps4 ports don't get that much work put into them. DX12 is equally good for PC, Ps4 and XB1. I do find it kind of funny we can even compare the Ps4 with that set up at all, though.
The 950 is also weaker than the 7850, which in turn means it's weaker than Ps4. The 960 is better though. You'll need a set up like you suggested (7950 3gb or 7970) to ensure you beat the Ps4 through its full run, though I do wonder if 3gb of vram will be enough in all circumstances as Ps4's OS gets less heavy. 4GB would put you well over Ps4 for the generation though.
Actually overall with vast majority of games a vanilla GTX 950 its only 10% slower than a 270x at 1080p which is an overclocked 7870. You can pick up factory overclocked 950's such as the EVGA SSC which is faster than a 270x.
Now unless Sony frees up more memory resources PS4 will be limited to 3gb or less with vram.
The PS4 was already a gen ahead of the Xbone. This will further push the PS4 to $5,000+ gaming PC power territory.
LMAO dude you made me laugh so hard my soda went up my nose. "a gen ahead". If that were so they wouldn't share so many big 3rd party releases. You know? Like how WiiU doesn't get them? LOL you're good bro.
In the end, this means Jack and Shit. I still cant play Halo, QB, Scalebound, Crackdown3 on my PS4. And I cant play Uncharted 4 and Horizon on my X1. And my PC still wipes its ass power wise with both. Have fun kids.
ps4 was 35-50% more powerful. Now, with this new game changing addition the ps4 is approximately 60 to 65% more powerful than Xbox One. Let me tell you something, that's impressive, impressive job, Sony.
Actually overall with vast majority of games a vanilla GTX 950 its only 10% slower than a 270x at 1080p which is an overclocked 7870. You can pick up factory overclocked 950's such as the EVGA SSC which is faster than a 270x.
Now unless Sony frees up more memory resources PS4 will be limited to 3gb or less with vram.
You're right, I guess Maxwell is just that good. Still i'd at least go with the 960 4gb if I wanted to ensure a Ps4 beating PC for the generation.
I hope they free up some memory, both the consoles use a disgusting amount of memory for their Os's.
@ten_pints: Except that the XB1 has an overclocked cpu, which the PS4 is incapable of doing. I'm afraid the XB1's cpu will be superior to the PS4's all gen long.
"PS4 HUMA architecture: AMD retracts statement, 'will not comment' on PS4 vs. Xbox One"
""During a recent gamescom 2013 interview, an AMD spokesperson made inaccurate statements regarding the details of our semi-custom APU architectures"
All HUMA is that it allows data to be simultaneously shared between GPU and CPU, both consoles gpu and cpu can access their main pool of memory to process data. The fact that X1 supports HSA means that its gpu can see the virtual memory and physical pool and process data from it as well, which means that X1 can support a HUMA like feature as well. Since CPU and GPU share the unified memory pool. HSA allows cpu and gpu to work together with unified memory pool of memory. AMD has been working with HUMA and HSA support with their APU's and to suggest PS4 has HUMA and X1 dont in any form is just dumb
"The 'supercharged' part, a lot of that comes from the use of the single unified pool of high-speed memory," said Cerny. The PS4 packs 8GB of GDDR5 RAM that's easily and fully addressable by both the CPU and GPU.
NO CPU ACCESS TO ESRAM.
NO HUMA not true HSA it has being known from the start that the xbox one doesn't have true HSA design it has something similar and certainly doesn't have HUMA which which require the CPU and GPU to see the same data at all times,which is impossible on xbox one because the CPU can't access data while it is on ESRAM.
Is not HUMA and is not true HSA for the same reason.
@imt558 said:
@04dcarraher:
LOL. Use your logic. Of course that AMD will retract employee's statement about PS4 does have HUMA, Xbone doesn't. They don't want to enter in console war. The hell, AMD developed APU for both consoles. They want to be neutral as possible.
The PS4 does have HUMA AMD drivers were not ready by the time the PS4 came out so sony was using its own solution that was all the problem but what Cerny describe to Gamasutra is that HUMA what i just quoted which 04dcarraher would ignore like he always does.
@nyadc said:
Morons not knowing what they're talking about.... Get fuckin rekt kid,
Move engines are also known as DMA and are also on PS4,is a GCN feature not an xbox one feature,the xbox one has 3 additional ones because it has a cumbersome memory structure.
Post a link to that shit i dare you,move engines don't increase power and would not shorten the gap between the PS4 and xbox one,that is some misterXmedia shit you just quoted there and prove once again that you know SHIT about hardware and what your talking DME = DMA on AMD cards all GCN have them including the PS4,the PS4 just doesn't need 4 because it doesn't have shitty memory structure with slow memory and a small pool of fast one.
Power on GCN,PS4 and xbox one come from Stream Processors inside CU,not from move engines so move engines will shorten no gap and are inside the PS4 as well.
@04dcarraher said:
wrong again el tormentos
So much denial about what DX12 fixes and introduces..... and grasping on the hyperbole to continue to bash.
Again X1 is not using parallel/direct async cpu communication ...... its only using async compute ie using the gpus ACE unit on the gpu itself tocompute volumetric lights and shadows. Its not the same league as the Async shading done with the other async games on PS4 or Mantle using all cpu cores talking to gpu and ACE units doing much more.
omg, the X1 having ESRAM means squat in preventing the cpu&gpu using DDR3 segment pool with HSA/HUMA features since that pool of memory is unified.
"The CPU cache block attaches to the GPU MMU, which drives the entire graphics core and video engine. Of particular interest for our purposes is this bit: “CPU, GPU, special processors, and I/O share memory via host-guest MMUs and synchronized page tables.” If Microsoft is using synchronized page tables, this strongly suggests that the Xbox One supports HSA/hUMA and that we were mistaken in our assertion to the contrary. Mea culpa."
That is the same shit Infamous does you fool use async compute for particles to.
It is an async game stop your damage control fool.
""If Microsoft is using synchronized page tables""
There goes your argument and post a link what are you scare your own link will own your ass.?
Fact is there is NO CPU access to ESRAM which mean when data is there the CPU can't see it HUMA is a single memory pool address by both CPU and GPU not 2 memory pools.
“ESRAM is dedicated RAM, it’s 32 megabytes, it sits right next to the GPU, in fact it’s on the other side of the GPU from the buses that talk to the rest of the system, so the GPU is the only thing that can see this memory.
There’s no CPU access here, because the CPU can’t see it, and it’s gotta get through the GPU to get to it, and we didn’t enable that.Read more:
@ten_pints: Except that the XB1 has an overclocked cpu, which the PS4 is incapable of doing. I'm afraid the XB1's cpu will be superior to the PS4's all gen long.
Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...
They are beating the xbox one frame wise without only 6 cores with 7 they should widen that gap,OC is not need it the xbox one will be GPU bound way faster than the PS4 will be CPU bound.
Oh and not with that cumbersome memory structure and not true HSA - HUMA design.
Morons not knowing what they're talking about.... Get fuckin rekt kid,
Move engines are also known as DMA and are also on PS4,is a GCN feature not an xbox one feature,the xbox one has 3 additional ones because it has a cumbersome memory structure.
Post a link to that shit i dare you,move engines don't increase power and would not shorten the gap between the PS4 and xbox one,that is some misterXmedia shit you just quoted there and prove once again that you know SHIT about hardware and what your talking DME = DMA on AMD cards all GCN have them including the PS4,the PS4 just doesn't need 4 because it doesn't have shitty memory structure with slow memory and a small pool of fast one.
Power on GCN,PS4 and xbox one come from Stream Processors inside CU,not from move engines so move engines will shorten no gap and are inside the PS4 as well.
The move engines are located at various points in system to manage the flow of data and where it goes, these are not intrinsically tied to the memory and GPU substructure not to mention the rest of that shit you're blabbing about has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.
This is some misterXmedia shit? This is from the IGN harware overview of the system you moron.
LOL. Use your logic. Of course that AMD will retract employee's statement about PS4 does have HUMA, Xbone doesn't. They don't want to enter in console war. The hell, AMD developed APU for both consoles. They want to be neutral as possible.
Morons not knowing what they're talking about.... Get fuckin rekt kid,
Move engines are also known as DMA and are also on PS4,is a GCN feature not an xbox one feature,the xbox one has 3 additional ones because it has a cumbersome memory structure.
Post a link to that shit i dare you,move engines don't increase power and would not shorten the gap between the PS4 and xbox one,that is some misterXmedia shit you just quoted there and prove once again that you know SHIT about hardware and what your talking DME = DMA on AMD cards all GCN have them including the PS4,the PS4 just doesn't need 4 because it doesn't have shitty memory structure with slow memory and a small pool of fast one.
Power on GCN,PS4 and xbox one come from Stream Processors inside CU,not from move engines so move engines will shorten no gap and are inside the PS4 as well.
The move engines are located at various points in system to manage the flow of data and where it goes, these are not intrinsically tied to the memory and GPU substructure not to mention the rest of that shit you're blabbing about has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.
This is some misterXmedia shit? This is from the IGN harware overview of the system you moron.
Since the Halo 5lop colossal failure, you sound salty in almost every post. Are you frustrated in life or what's happening? You can tell me your story, im listening.
@acp_45: if you just disagree then again....why do have reply with "my Xbox is fun" with a post that just said PS4 is fun.
Was it that big of a deal?
Did everyone have to understand that "hey just bc this guy says the PS4 is fun doesn't mean the Xbox isn't fun."
You seem like a fanboy just like everyone else and to act high and mighty as if you're not.....then go be the chosen one on your own time....stop involving me.
Look I don't know what logic you're using here.
"if you just disagree then again....why do have reply with "my Xbox is fun" with a post that just said PS4 is fun."
I disagreed with one of your posts. The "My Xbox is fun" comment has nothing to do with it. I didn't even know that I posted it to you. I just saw the post and decided to bait. NO IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL. Stop being delusional.
Fanboy me ? I couldn't care less about these plastic boxes with disc trays...They just need to play the games I want.
You don't want to get involved ? Then get out. Why are you even here ?
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