Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty has the highest skill ceiling out of any game.

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"][QUOTE="argetlam00"]

He has watched live competitve gameplay (not trash journalist gameplay). WHy does he need to play it to determine a skill ceiling and be vrey impressed by a game?

Inconsistancy

I bought SC, SC:BW, and SC2, and I can't stand the melee matches. The great thing about Starcraft is that it also offers really fun and creative custom maps.

I can agree with that.

I think it takes more skill, time, and dedication to be good at Starcraft 2 than it does to be good at Quake or Counterstrike.

The beauty of Starcraft 2 is that it's not the biggest and most robust RTS on the market. On the easier difficulties, it's quite easy to pick up and play.

However, it's polished and balanced to such perfection. The competitive play against people can go from fun matches to the most intense 15 minutes of gaming the world has seen yet. The amount of skill it takes to be on par with the leaderboard leaders is just incredible.

I can agree with that.

I think it takes more skill, time, and dedication to be good at Starcraft 2 than it does to be good at Quake or Counterstrike.

The beauty of Starcraft 2 is that it's not the biggest and most robust RTS on the market. On the easier difficulties, it's quite easy to pick up and play.

However, it's polished and balanced to such perfection. The competitive play against people can go from fun matches to the most intense 15 minutes of gaming the world has seen yet. The amount of skill it takes to be on par with the leaderboard leaders is just incredible.

Wasdie

This is all true, but it bothers the hell out of me when people go around saying it's the most strategically demanding game ever made. There are soooooo many games in the strategy genre alone, games that fulfill every setting and game type, games with actual ballistics physics and terrain characteristics. Games where matches can take hours, and focusing on the wrong type of research could lead to whole planets of yours being pummeled.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

I can agree with that.

I think it takes more skill, time, and dedication to be good at Starcraft 2 than it does to be good at Quake or Counterstrike.

The beauty of Starcraft 2 is that it's not the biggest and most robust RTS on the market. On the easier difficulties, it's quite easy to pick up and play.

However, it's polished and balanced to such perfection. The competitive play against people can go from fun matches to the most intense 15 minutes of gaming the world has seen yet. The amount of skill it takes to be on par with the leaderboard leaders is just incredible.

xLittlekillx

This is all true, but it bothers the hell out of me when people go around saying it's the most strategically demanding game ever made. There are soooooo many games in the strategy genre alone, games that fulfill every setting and game type, games with actual ballistics physics and terrain characteristics. Games where matches can take hours, and focusing on the wrong type of research could lead to whole planets of yours being pummeled.

nah

Everyone knows this honor can only be bestowed upon Halo.

I bought SC, SC:BW, and SC2, and I can't stand the melee matches. The great thing about Starcraft is that it also offers really fun and creative custom maps.

WCK619

This too.

I wasn't even two digits years old when I started playing Starcraft and never found the appeal of melees until SC2 hit.

Didn't keep it from being my favorite and most played game throughout the years. The custom maps in BW were wicked sick. A shame Blizzard decided to **** on us and implemented the popularity thing in SC2. It completely killed the drive for innovation.

Their artwork is so well done and unique, and I really think they have some of the best art design in the industry.

arkephonic

I agree that it is a well balanced competitive game, requiring very high multitasking skills, but a BIG lol@its art design and direction. It is as generic as it gets.

Everyone knows this honor can only be bestowed upon Halo.

Shewgenja

No, Bw is

SC2 is not balanced

LO MARINES, I WIN

HaloinventedFPS

:roll: this again there is no such thing as inherent skill a person can play starcraft without macroing or anything and still win its single player.
A game does not have inherent skill requirements it has the people that practice every day learn the game in and out learn its glitches and faults and strategic possibilities and this is what creates the skill the people.

It doesn't mean that a good 90% of the time you can't find people with ""supposedly"" no skill while they play.
I've seen halo players and call of duty players do some truely insane things.

Intense matches in diamond league?? news to me.

Intense matches in diamond league?? news to me.

Led_poison

[QUOTE="Led_poison"]

Intense matches in diamond league?? news to me.

siLVURcross

Usually they are just cheese after cheese

:roll: this again there is no such thing as inherent skill a person can play starcraft without macroing or anything and still win its single player.
A game does not have inherent skill requirements it has the people that practice every day learn the game in and out learn its glitches and faults and strategic possibilities and this is what creates the skill the people.

It doesn't mean that a good 90% of the time you can't find people with ""supposedly"" no skill while they play.
I've seen halo players and call of duty players do some truely insane things.

WilliamRLBaker

I think that Starcraft II ultimately will at least be very, very close to Brood War. You have to remember it's not nearly as balanced yet and people haven't had nearly as much time to play it. Brood War has been going on for years and years, Starcraft II has yet to fully come into its own.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

:roll: this again there is no such thing as inherent skill a person can play starcraft without macroing or anything and still win its single player.
A game does not have inherent skill requirements it has the people that practice every day learn the game in and out learn its glitches and faults and strategic possibilities and this is what creates the skill the people.

It doesn't mean that a good 90% of the time you can't find people with ""supposedly"" no skill while they play.
I've seen halo players and call of duty players do some truely insane things.

Gun-Unit

so what your telling me is that the short charge time glitches of certain protoss units didn't exist in first starcraft when it was first released and later fixed in patches? so based upon that logic upon release starcraft 1 and 2 had absolutely no glitches or exploits it was a PERFECT game upon release? Foolish foolish foolish your actually trying to claim that a person that knows the game like the back of they're hand, and practices so they can do stuff fast as or faster than every one else will not win?
There is no inherent skill in a game only that which the users of that game bring with their practice and knowledge of the game, Inherent skill would mean someone could sit down at the game first time and destroy every one else because they inherently have skills that mesh perfectly with that game...yet we haven't seen it experience being far more paramount than ones speed of fingers...etc..etc

Cool story, TC. Not gonna play the game anytime soon.

[QUOTE="Gun-Unit"]

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

:roll: this again there is no such thing as inherent skill a person can play starcraft without macroing or anything and still win its single player.
A game does not have inherent skill requirements it has the people that practice every day learn the game in and out learn its glitches and faults and strategic possibilities and this is what creates the skill the people.

It doesn't mean that a good 90% of the time you can't find people with ""supposedly"" no skill while they play.
I've seen halo players and call of duty players do some truely insane things.

WilliamRLBaker

so what your telling me is that the short charge time glitches of certain protoss units didn't exist in first starcraft when it was first released and later fixed in patches? so based upon that logic upon release starcraft 1 and 2 had absolutely no glitches or exploits it was a PERFECT game upon release? Foolish foolish foolish your actually trying to claim that a person that knows the game like the back of they're hand, and practices so they can do stuff fast as or faster than every one else will not win?
There is no inherent skill in a game only that which the users of that game bring with their practice and knowledge of the game, Inherent skill would mean someone could sit down at the game first time and destroy every one else because they inherently have skills that mesh perfectly with that game...yet we haven't seen it experience being far more paramount than ones speed of fingers...etc..etc

I understand what you are saying, and agree to some extent, but the thread title is referring to "skill ceiling." The amount of multitasking involved does require a lot of skill. I don't think there's any argument that can be made against that.

Intense matches in diamond league?? news to me.

Led_poison

There was nothing (haven't played for a long, long time) like a match against an opponent with similar skills as yours, really, nothing, the back and forth, the struggles, the constant battles, the win, the loses, the retreats and then realize in the replay that the match was a lot closer (or quite the contrary) that what it truly seemed

StarCraft 1 has a muuuuuuuuuuch higher skill cap than SC2. Lethalhazard

You'll have to explain that one...

Yeah it is pretty dang amazing, some of the streams of the tourneys blow me away, some are so talented and fast its nuts!

Starcraft2 and Counterstrike I would have to say take the most skill

StarCraft 1 has a muuuuuuuuuuch higher skill cap than SC2. Lethalhazard

That's true, there is no match between MVP and NesTea (arguably the best SC2 players in the world) that can be compared to a match between Yellow vs Boxer or Flash vs Jaedong in terms of "skill" like Mulstitasking, reflex, coordination, decision making, etc.

[QUOTE="Gun-Unit"]

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

:roll: this again there is no such thing as inherent skill a person can play starcraft without macroing or anything and still win its single player.
A game does not have inherent skill requirements it has the people that practice every day learn the game in and out learn its glitches and faults and strategic possibilities and this is what creates the skill the people.

It doesn't mean that a good 90% of the time you can't find people with ""supposedly"" no skill while they play.
I've seen halo players and call of duty players do some truely insane things.

WilliamRLBaker

so what your telling me is that the short charge time glitches of certain protoss units didn't exist in first starcraft when it was first released and later fixed in patches? so based upon that logic upon release starcraft 1 and 2 had absolutely no glitches or exploits it was a PERFECT game upon release? Foolish foolish foolish your actually trying to claim that a person that knows the game like the back of they're hand, and practices so they can do stuff fast as or faster than every one else will not win?
There is no inherent skill in a game only that which the users of that game bring with their practice and knowledge of the game, Inherent skill would mean someone could sit down at the game first time and destroy every one else because they inherently have skills that mesh perfectly with that game...yet we haven't seen it experience being far more paramount than ones speed of fingers...etc..etc

That is not true at all, one of my friends plays Starcraft2 less then I do yet he is way higher level and wins 90% of the time in a much higher category them I am in. Also Starcraft2 is one of the most polished games ive ever played, never had a crash in it and never had any glitches in it since launch, one of this gens most polished and competetive games.

He is just MORE TALTENTED then me at these types of games, no matter how much I practise starcraft1/2 I wont be better then him and many others. Why? Well its nto TIME PLAYED because Ive played as much if not more then of the game, I am just nto as talented as them at the way these games play out.

I still love the game and respect how amazign some of these people are at it. But my TALENTS in videogames are more suited for for strategy games liek Anno, Civilization or Total War Shogun2, then the faster paced actino of Starcraft2, I just cant deal with everything in starcraft1/2 as fast as others, no matter how much I practise.

Have you even tried Starcraft2 yourself? Or just going off of what others have said or videos youve seen?

so what your telling me is that the short charge time glitches of certain protoss units didn't exist in first starcraft when it was first released and later fixed in patches? so based upon that logic upon release starcraft 1 and 2 had absolutely no glitches or exploits it was a PERFECT game upon release? Foolish foolish foolish your actually trying to claim that a person that knows the game like the back of they're hand, and practices so they can do stuff fast as or faster than every one else will not win?
There is no inherent skill in a game only that which the users of that game bring with their practice and knowledge of the game, Inherent skill would mean someone could sit down at the game first time and destroy every one else because they inherently have skills that mesh perfectly with that game...yet we haven't seen it experience being far more paramount than ones speed of fingers...etc..etc

WilliamRLBaker

There is no glitches to be exploits,so what are you trying to argue?Yes there was some at release,but it doesn't apply to now and how the game is played.Makes you look foolish saying that "oh it had glitches or exploits at release so it applies to today" :/.It does require skil because there are players who come into the scene and blow up.They practice because they are sign to a team and gotta keep,there skill up to keep winning as the games strategies and build orders change all the time.Stategies come and go and players gotta keep up with finding new strategies.Multitasking,speed,macoing,mircoing,strategy,and thinking on the fly is all skill,trying to argue it is stupid.There's even players that practice day in and out and can't get anywheres because they don't have the skill,so your whole there is no skill its only practice,practice,practice,is super silly.Go watch DRG,the man is super skilled.

[QUOTE="Lethalhazard"]StarCraft 1 has a muuuuuuuuuuch higher skill cap than SC2. madsnakehhh

That's true, there is no match between MVP and NesTea (arguably the best SC2 players in the world) that can be compared to a match between Yellow vs Boxer or Flash vs Jaedong in terms of "skill" like Mulstitasking, reflex, coordination, decision making, etc.

Everyone knows this honor can only be bestowed upon Halo.

Shewgenja

SC2 just doesn't give me what I want from my strategy games.That feeling of immersion and triumph and defeat and chaotic skirmishes across the fields of war.

Crusader Kings 2: "My liege, Munster is amassing mercenaries! Should we raise the levies in preparation for defense? Surely the Munster treasury won't last them through an entire siege if we are well defended! Also, the King of Hungary would like you to meet his daughter."

Sins of a Solar Empire: "Our entire fleet was wiped out at Sol! As we speak, a capital ship and dozens of heavily armed frigates are approaching our last remaining frontier world! We must assemble a new fleet quickly if we are to survive the onslaught, and fortunately we've just made a breakthrough in military technology that will allow us to build a capital ship of our own."

Supreme Commander: "Our scout fighters have located an amassed army of hundreds of assault bots and light tanks. If we scramble bombers and harrass them on their approach to our base, and use our high ground advantage to fire on them from afar, we should be able to crush their offensive and immediately launch one of our own!"

CoH: "Oh god, Johnny's down! Get to cover! BOOM BOOOM We're being hit by heavy artillery! We need backup now!"

Dawn of War: "For the Imperium! Cleanse the heretics!"

Starcraft 2: clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclick clickclickclickclickclickclickclick

SC2 just doesn't give me what I want from my strategy games.That feeling of immersion and triumph and defeat and chaotic skirmishes across the fields of war.

Crusader Kings 2: "My liege, Munster is amassing mercenaries! Should we raise the levies in preparation for defense? Surely the Munster treasury won't last them through an entire siege if we are well defended! Also, the King of Hungary would like you to meet his daughter."

Sins of a Solar Empire: "Our entire fleet was wiped out at Sol! As we speak, a capital ship and dozens of heavily armed frigates are approaching our last remaining frontier world! We must assemble a new fleet quickly if we are to survive the onslaught, and fortunately we've just made a breakthrough in military technology that will allow us to build a capital ship of our own."

Supreme Commander: "Our scout fighters have located an amassed army of hundreds of assault bots and light tanks. If we scramble bombers and harrass them on their approach to our base, and use our high ground advantage to fire on them from afar, we should be able to crush their offensive and immediately launch one of our own!"

CoH: "Oh god, Johnny's down! Get to cover! BOOM BOOOM We're being hit by heavy artillery! We need backup now!"

Dawn of War: "For the Imperium! Cleanse the heretics!"

Starcraft 2: clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclick clickclickclickclickclickclickclick

xLittlekillx

[QUOTE="xLittlekillx"]

SC2 just doesn't give me what I want from my strategy games.That feeling of immersion and triumph and defeat and chaotic skirmishes across the fields of war.

Crusader Kings 2: "My liege, Munster is amassing mercenaries! Should we raise the levies in preparation for defense? Surely the Munster treasury won't last them through an entire siege if we are well defended! Also, the King of Hungary would like you to meet his daughter."

Sins of a Solar Empire: "Our entire fleet was wiped out at Sol! As we speak, a capital ship and dozens of heavily armed frigates are approaching our last remaining frontier world! We must assemble a new fleet quickly if we are to survive the onslaught, and fortunately we've just made a breakthrough in military technology that will allow us to build a capital ship of our own."

Supreme Commander: "Our scout fighters have located an amassed army of hundreds of assault bots and light tanks. If we scramble bombers and harrass them on their approach to our base, and use our high ground advantage to fire on them from afar, we should be able to crush their offensive and immediately launch one of our own!"

CoH: "Oh god, Johnny's down! Get to cover! BOOM BOOOM We're being hit by heavy artillery! We need backup now!"

Dawn of War: "For the Imperium! Cleanse the heretics!"

Starcraft 2: clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclick clickclickclickclickclickclickclick

SwarmKing

Yeah, totaly agree.

I think that Starcraft II ultimately will at least be very, very close to Brood War. You have to remember it's not nearly as balanced yet and people haven't had nearly as much time to play it. Brood War has been going on for years and years, Starcraft II has yet to fully come into its own.

Kiro0

[QUOTE="xLittlekillx"]

SC2 just doesn't give me what I want from my strategy games.That feeling of immersion and triumph and defeat and chaotic skirmishes across the fields of war.

Crusader Kings 2: "My liege, Munster is amassing mercenaries! Should we raise the levies in preparation for defense? Surely the Munster treasury won't last them through an entire siege if we are well defended! Also, the King of Hungary would like you to meet his daughter."

Sins of a Solar Empire: "Our entire fleet was wiped out at Sol! As we speak, a capital ship and dozens of heavily armed frigates are approaching our last remaining frontier world! We must assemble a new fleet quickly if we are to survive the onslaught, and fortunately we've just made a breakthrough in military technology that will allow us to build a capital ship of our own."

Supreme Commander: "Our scout fighters have located an amassed army of hundreds of assault bots and light tanks. If we scramble bombers and harrass them on their approach to our base, and use our high ground advantage to fire on them from afar, we should be able to crush their offensive and immediately launch one of our own!"

CoH: "Oh god, Johnny's down! Get to cover! BOOM BOOOM We're being hit by heavy artillery! We need backup now!"

Dawn of War: "For the Imperium! Cleanse the heretics!"

Starcraft 2: clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclick clickclickclickclickclickclickclick

SwarmKing

Are you implying that Company of Heroes isn't one of the most amazing and visceral strategy war game experiences ever?

:roll: this again there is no such thing as inherent skill a person can play starcraft without macroing or anything and still win its single player.
A game does not have inherent skill requirements it has the people that practice every day learn the game in and out learn its glitches and faults and strategic possibilities and this is what creates the skill the people.

It doesn't mean that a good 90% of the time you can't find people with ""supposedly"" no skill while they play.
I've seen halo players and call of duty players do some truely insane things.

WilliamRLBaker

SC2 just doesn't give me what I want from my strategy games.That feeling of immersion and triumph and defeat and chaotic skirmishes across the fields of war.

Crusader Kings 2: "My liege, Munster is amassing mercenaries! Should we raise the levies in preparation for defense? Surely the Munster treasury won't last them through an entire siege if we are well defended! Also, the King of Hungary would like you to meet his daughter."

Sins of a Solar Empire: "Our entire fleet was wiped out at Sol! As we speak, a capital ship and dozens of heavily armed frigates are approaching our last remaining frontier world! We must assemble a new fleet quickly if we are to survive the onslaught, and fortunately we've just made a breakthrough in military technology that will allow us to build a capital ship of our own."

Supreme Commander: "Our scout fighters have located an amassed army of hundreds of assault bots and light tanks. If we scramble bombers and harrass them on their approach to our base, and use our high ground advantage to fire on them from afar, we should be able to crush their offensive and immediately launch one of our own!"

CoH: "Oh god, Johnny's down! Get to cover! BOOM BOOOM We're being hit by heavy artillery! We need backup now!"

Dawn of War: "For the Imperium! Cleanse the heretics!"

Starcraft 2: clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclick clickclickclickclickclickclickclick

xLittlekillx

Virtua Fighter has the highest ceiling. By far.savebattery

Virtua Fighter 4 is definitely up there

Actually SC:BW (Starcraft Broodwar) has a higher skill cap. I love SC2 (both playing and watching it) but SC:BW definitely deserves that title.

Priapus101

Those are the reasons that add up to SC2 sort of failing in Korea, think I saw a list of top 10 most played game in PC bangs in South Korea, and Brood war was like 4 or 7, SC2 wasn't even on the list, 10th was MapleStory, and 1st was LoL.

[QUOTE="Priapus101"]

Actually SC:BW (Starcraft Broodwar) has a higher skill cap. I love SC2 (both playing and watching it) but SC:BW definitely deserves that title.

RavenLoud

[QUOTE="Priapus101"]

Actually SC:BW (Starcraft Broodwar) has a higher skill cap. I love SC2 (both playing and watching it) but SC:BW definitely deserves that title.

RavenLoud

Those are the reasons that add up to SC2 sort of failing in Korea, think I saw a list of top 10 most played game in PC bangs in South Korea, and Brood war was like 4 or 7, SC2 wasn't even on the list, 10th was MapleStory, and 1st was LoL.

Its pretty common sense to know that when it comes to skill based games its RTS #1 and Fighters #2 respectively

SC2 just doesn't give me what I want from my strategy games.That feeling of immersion and triumph and defeat and chaotic skirmishes across the fields of war.

Crusader Kings 2: "My liege, Munster is amassing mercenaries! Should we raise the levies in preparation for defense? Surely the Munster treasury won't last them through an entire siege if we are well defended! Also, the King of Hungary would like you to meet his daughter."

Sins of a Solar Empire: "Our entire fleet was wiped out at Sol! As we speak, a capital ship and dozens of heavily armed frigates are approaching our last remaining frontier world! We must assemble a new fleet quickly if we are to survive the onslaught, and fortunately we've just made a breakthrough in military technology that will allow us to build a capital ship of our own."

Supreme Commander: "Our scout fighters have located an amassed army of hundreds of assault bots and light tanks. If we scramble bombers and harrass them on their approach to our base, and use our high ground advantage to fire on them from afar, we should be able to crush their offensive and immediately launch one of our own!"

CoH: "Oh god, Johnny's down! Get to cover! BOOM BOOOM We're being hit by heavy artillery! We need backup now!"

Dawn of War: "For the Imperium! Cleanse the heretics!"

Starcraft 2: clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclick clickclickclickclickclickclickclick

xLittlekillx

Did you even read the thread title?

Or did you just come here because you felt it was necessary to bash anything Starcraft 2 related?

[QUOTE="xLittlekillx"]

SC2 just doesn't give me what I want from my strategy games.That feeling of immersion and triumph and defeat and chaotic skirmishes across the fields of war.

Crusader Kings 2: "My liege, Munster is amassing mercenaries! Should we raise the levies in preparation for defense? Surely the Munster treasury won't last them through an entire siege if we are well defended! Also, the King of Hungary would like you to meet his daughter."

Sins of a Solar Empire: "Our entire fleet was wiped out at Sol! As we speak, a capital ship and dozens of heavily armed frigates are approaching our last remaining frontier world! We must assemble a new fleet quickly if we are to survive the onslaught, and fortunately we've just made a breakthrough in military technology that will allow us to build a capital ship of our own."

Supreme Commander: "Our scout fighters have located an amassed army of hundreds of assault bots and light tanks. If we scramble bombers and harrass them on their approach to our base, and use our high ground advantage to fire on them from afar, we should be able to crush their offensive and immediately launch one of our own!"

CoH: "Oh god, Johnny's down! Get to cover! BOOM BOOOM We're being hit by heavy artillery! We need backup now!"

Dawn of War: "For the Imperium! Cleanse the heretics!"

Starcraft 2: clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclickclickclick clickclickclick clickclickclickclickclickclickclick

N30F3N1X

Did you even read the thread title?

Or did you just come here because you felt it was necessary to bash anything Starcraft 2 related?

Well, the statement in the title is such an incredibly stupid thing to say that I didn't think anybody was actually going to discuss whether or not it's true. So I just wanted to say what I think about starcraft since this seems like a good place to voice my thoughts about videogames and consoles to strangers.

www.gomtv.net/2012gsls1/vod/66959

Thats the VOD from lastnights SC2 finals.

Well, the statement in the title is such an incredibly stupid thing to say that I didn't think anybody was actually going to discuss whether or not it's true. So I just wanted to say what I think about starcraft since this seems like a good place to voice my thoughts about videogames and consoles to strangers.

xLittlekillx

The thread title is an incredibly stupid thing to say. But talking about something completely unrelated simply because it has to do with the game being discussed was worth being posted?