Steam says NO to censorship. Gamers are happy. Journalists are not

Complain about it on the internet of course!

@tryit: but that's the point.

Free speech has restrictions.

You shouldn't be allowed to be racist or homophobic just to hurt people.

In some countries, those are crimes, and they should be.

You offending people because of their skin color, etiny, gender or sexual orientation go beyond free speech since is plain and simple prejudice. Those people should be educated, if not by love then by pain.

I'm agaisnt censorship when it comes to religion, political views etc, but when it comes to hate speech? No, hate speech should be banned and suppressed.

Or are you fine with people being Nazis nowadays? It's the same.

and like I said, I let others talk among themselves on that. I dont go deliberately fishing to extremes to look for a reason to support censorship.

I don't even think this is a question of censorship. A store choosing not to stock a product is not censorship.

that is true, whatever word fits so that its palatable to you.

I want filters, not games removed from the store.

you dont want filters, you want games removed from the store.

I dont want game journalists, or Valve deciding for me what exists in the store, both are absolutely horrid at making that choice for me and there is plenty of evidence to support that.

I just purged a lot of people from my twitter feed for whining about this.

I would like to see hateful stuff removed, there is no place for it and it reflects badly on Valve for endorsing it.

I do not believe that is your real motivation.

I do not think you are aware of it but I think you want to see control over all, you are just using 'harmful stuff' as an excuse

I don't really care what you think. I just don't think school shooters and AIDS simulators make a good impression on Steam.

and I dont think games SHOULD make a 'good impression on Steam'

let me ask you something, do you play mostly console games or mostly PC games?

But these lame atempts at games, asset flips, zero effort games, they must be raking in way less money for these stores than say GTA, Dishonored or The Elder Scrolls 6

And on top of that they cause way more controversy.

To put it in another way: That shooting simulator caused just so much controversy for Valve, what did they earn by selling it ? 50 bucks ?

what so you can make some kind of judgement about me based on the games it play?

If you must know I grew up playing mostly playing computers like the spectrum 48k, Atari ST and Amiga. Then shifted to consoles until I built my own PC about 7 years ago and have played mostly PC games (or games on PC) since then. The only console I own is the Switch now.

I ask because a lot of people who dont even use Steam and dont have any interest in the types of games Steam has wants to make sure I do not buy the games I like.

I have a problem with that, the vast majority of games I enjoy Gamespot doesnt even have a review for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so forgive me if I do not trust the industries abilities to determine what is or is not relevant in a store

Good for valve. Let people vote with their wallet.

I installed Steam the day I bought HL2 all those year ago and have spent £1000's on it buying games ever since. My Steam collection is my gaming pride and joy.

I just hate using the store now and it's a shame.

this is such a fucking moot point.

Do you get angry at the grocery store because they put windex on the shelf and you decide to buy it to drink it? No. At least if you have any common sense.

Its a store, there are products. You can look into each said thing before money even goes anywhere.

Dont blame Steam for consumers being absolute fucking idiots.

Its just like people wanting the government to raise their kids. You had a kid, you are a parent, your responsibility.

Morons.

and I LOVE using the store now.

literally saved my gaming life from death, swear to god in 2013 my gaming life DRAMATICALLY improved 100% because of Steam and how it is now.

I dont know why you dont believe or or care about that.

nearly ZERO of the games I enjoy over the past 4 years are even reviewed on Gamespot. No way in hell do I want anyone from the industry determining what is aviable on the store.

no friggin way

My advice to you is, stop using Steam, stick to games formulas you know, and leave gamers like me alone and stop trying to control what we see

I'm all for free speech and allowing games regardless of controversial content, but Steam is turning more and more into a cesspool of unregulated mega-trash. You think Big Rigs is bad? Try games that are released and literally don't have executable files. And their search and marketplace functions to find and promote actually good games are just horrible.

I am happy they are deciding to allow smut and violence but they need to sort out their abominable crap. Over-saturation is a serious issue for the platform. It's a total pain in the ass to find diamonds in the rough as it is, and now if they're going to freely allow whatever-the-****, it becomes that much harder.

the thing is people are literally spending hours of their day hunting down those games so that they can justify having full control over the content of Steam to then restrict pretty much anything that doesn't interest them.

Steam literally saved my gaming life from death. In aggregate its been a huge boost to gaming. that doesnt mean scams dont exist but over all its a very small part of the system.

my suggestion to you is to not use steam and let people who like steam play what they want

I want to hold these sites responsible for their writers. Some are prone to defamation. It's fine to write opinion-pieces but gamers and developers are continuously painted as sexists/racists/idiots by game media. At some point enough is enough, and at some point that becomes illegal. Polygon, Kotaku, GamesIndustry, Vice, ResetERA and Eurogamer are the main sites I'm keeping an eye on in case things go nuts.

I also find it scary how many game media sites are propagating extremely one-sided politics in a dishonest way, to the extend that it inhibits their ability to write about news in a somewhat factual manner. (And in cases make up facts as they go.)

I have been ignoring the content of gaming sites for many years now.

they almost never cover the games I am interested in so I couldn't care less about their existence.

Those words are thrown around so frivolously and often nowadays, they they have lost their true meaning. Which is a shame, b/c they were strong, powerful words that used to have strong, powerful meaning. Now they just mean "anyone that doesn't agree with me".

I hope more people on the Right start to take that attitude. Because the labels gets people distracted from content.

So if someone calls you a label, just ignore it, and get them focused on content, not who is or is not that label because that is a waste of time

Uh This is the kind of shit literally shows up all the time on the upcoming and new releases tabs, on the front page. Asset flips, creatively bankrupt, steaming hot fat piles of garbage, regularly sneak on to the front page. Do you actually use steam? Or are you just here to be butthurt about "censorship?"

Regardless, Steam is first and foremost a store to find things worthy of time and money. Comparing to the grocery store metaphor of a previous post, I don't want to browse a grocery store that stocks half the shelves with dogshit. Regardless of the fact that that store does indeed have to right to do that, I don't want to shop there anymore when their competitors are only stocking their shelves with actual products that I want to buy.

Why do you think many indie devs, for example, are selling more and better Switch, when Steam used to be the indie dream platform? Is it because Switch has an equally huge and well-established userbase? Or is it because steam is an increasing bloated collection that buries its gems under an avalanche of dung?

I say again, Steam as it is now literally saved my gaming life from death (its like you are not even reading what I am saying)

I HATE AAA games, I find the boring, simple, insulting, story driven POS. So I really do not trust the industry to decide for me what I am able to buy.

Filters makes sense, removing games that you would never play in anyones lifetime anyway, from the store does not.

Just

dont

use

steam

I dont go around telling people AAA titles should disapear and be removed so that nobody can buy them!

Steam is literally the only gaming vendor I use, and for a very good reason. So you just dont use it, use something else and stop getting into everyone elses business. aka...get your damn thumb out of my ass please

Have you tried Good old Games (GoG)?

Yes and I believe you are right about that. The words are thrown around a lot and without substantial evidence or at least signs of being factual. It's a shame because there are actual problems that do involve actual sexists or racists (or idiots XD) and that's also hypocritical about their stance. (The idea that we should not misrepresent stuff or support hateful content.) Well, they do nothing else but misrepresent people and terms and hurt people.

And we don't want to get into a situation where, for instance, these terms are not taken seriously anymore. Or even worse: that we are all considered to be sexist or racist or thieves (copyright) anyway, so what does it really matter anymore? At that point it's perfectly natural (sadly) for some people to conclude that becoming an actual sexist is no longer crossing a line, because they are there already as a matter of being born as a man in this world.

Probably a large part of the problem I have with gaming journalism can be summed up by the above. And no I don't want to censor the journalists. But I do think they need to be made aware of what they're doing so that they can act more consciously.

why should I?

I am not into old games, the games on Steam in this era of gaming is by FAR the best ever...in my opinion

if they do not have 100% of the games below its a non-starter for me

Space Engineers,Medieval Engineers,7 Days to Die,Imperium Galactic Survival,The Forest,Subnautica,Life is Feudal,Stranded Deep,From the Depths,Kerbal Space Program,StarMade,Another Brick in the Mall,Elite Dangerous,Kenshi,RimWorld,Hospitalize,Kingdoms,Wurm Unlimited,My Summer Car

@tryit: I think you should have a look rather than shoot something down without ever looking.

Is it really so hard to accept that someone on System Wars may actually be trying to do you a favour?

I don't fucking care that Steam "saved your gaming life." Your "gaming life" is a meaningless gauge of an singular experience. The only point actually made is that if I hate the service I shouldn't use it. Which is like saying if I like AAA games but don't like lootboxes I should never play those games. If my apple has a bruise, I shouldn't cut it out when I can always just throw the whole thing away. It's more or less a non-point. But you are technically right, and indeed, I use Steam less and less, because their store functions are just horrible and it's far too difficult to browse for decent material. If I want small games and indies I go elsewhere.

Thing is though, I want to use Steam, I want a good experience from the store, and I want to find hidden goodies. But it's becoming harder and harder.

I haven't even gotten into the implications that, regardless of any of us the consumers, this saturation has been mentioned as a serious negative multiple times by multiple independent developers. Their games need the exposure that they aren't getting because, for every good game on Steam, there are 500 crap games. They typically can't afford anything but word of mouth.

I feel the need to bring this up again in this topic only because I fear this statement means the floodgates previously left half-open are going to explode fully. More legitimate developers will simply leave the platform because it's not worth the upfront cost and they won't make enough returns compared to the time, money, and energy invested making good games. Alternatively they will leave because they don't want to associate with other products on the page. Meanwhile, more and more genuinely bad games and outright scams will be showing up until it's the norm. That's the direction Steam is headed, and they are making no efforts for course correction.

I am going to say again:

here is a sample of the games I want to play:

Space Engineers,Medieval Engineers,7 Days to Die,Imperium Galactic Survival,The Forest,Subnautica,Life is Feudal,Stranded Deep,From the Depths,Kerbal Space Program,StarMade,Another Brick in the Mall,Elite Dangerous,Kenshi,RimWorld,Hospitalize,Kingdoms,Wurm Unlimited,My Summer Car

1. if GoG doesn't have 100% of those games then it would negatively impact my gaming life.

2. I dont like retro gaming

EXACTLY why you will never in a million years get any ground with me.

gaming is BETTER because of Steam, gaming was WORSE when Steam was not around.

I will be damned if I am going to support going back.

not reading anything you have to say moving forward, we are done

its just not good enough to simply not use steam is it? you want to just make sure my gaming life goes to shit too

Shove it up your arse then.

@tryit: To be honest, I think many of the simulation and immersive sim games you like would not have been affected by a revised policy from Steam.

The games called into question were games with pornographic content or displayed extreme topical violence such as - what was that game called again? Action Shooter or something. Other games that people are dubious of are asset flips, meme games and underdeveloped games that are being sold on the store that are basically lazy cash grabs.

It has nothing to do with small independent games of obvious quality.

You are actually an idiot and I don't even feel bad saying so. Not at all surprising, given that the last time I got into it with you, you went full conspiracy nut. You have for some reason cemented in your mind the idea that we can only possibly allow these two extremes: Literally allow and encourage every single piece of content, or destroy and delete the platform. Does it not occur that there is a middle ground where we can find and enjoy great indie experiences without having to sift through mindless asset flips and non-executables?

Here is my wishlist, what % of those games are on GoG?

think about what you are asking of me; 'please sir, stop playing the games you enjoy'

You know the good thing here, as Steam says, no one is forcing you to even look at the garbage, you can decide what you want to play or what you want to buy.

So good on Steam for not falling prey to the far-left liberals who as said above is all for openness and tolerance as long as it´s what they consider ok to be open and what they see as ok to tolerate.

I do not have that level of confidence in Valve or the gaming industry in general to determine quality.

PEROID

The industry as a whole has an absolute horrible track record with me when it comes to their ability to curate and I do not want them or Valve determining which games to restrict.

that experiment has been tried, and it failed massively.

sorry talking about me, my personality, defects etc are not going to help you.

there is no middle ground here, reason is the TRUE motivation is NOT what you are saying, its to control what others play. spending hours to hunt down an example of a game that likely is no longer there that didnt have an excutable is called 'confirmation bias'

just dont use Steam.....

@tryit: Why does GoG need to have all those games? Dont you already own them?

@tryit: Again, really this has to do with censorship of pornographic and explotive games.

It's about stolen content, potentially illegal or morally grey subject matter and games that are outright unable to run.

Not games that might be unpopular but are generally well made. The games you listed above would all be fine.

if it makes you feel any better I think pornography should not be censored!

and no its not about that, its just the excuse that helps fit the larger confirmation bias agenda.

this is isnt the first rodeo i have played on this subject. I say, dont try to fix something that is working, focus instead on what is broken, dont focus on changing what has been the solution, not the problem

@tryit:

It literally is about that. This whole topic is a response to anime porn games and Active Shooter that have been circulating the press recently. Active Shooter went as far as reaching news outside of the industry. This topic has nothing to do with the numerous positively reviewed but unpopular simulation games you're talking about. They're not an issue to anyone... Some of them aren't even that unpopular. The Escapists is on multiple platforms.

Moral ambiguity aside, there are games on Steam that do not work or display stolen content. It's a worthy discussion to have whether Steam should be allowing people to sell stolen or broken games.

"Steam was super important to me, it saved my gaming life!"

"Stop talking about me!"

Lets put it this way. If you didn't want your personality to be called into question, then you shouldn't have used your personal tastes as a metric for Steam's integrity.

Go away we are done....you forgot?

what part of this quote is confusing to you people?

"We've decided that the right approach is to allow everything onto the Steam Store, except for things that we decide are illegal, or straight up trolling,"

and how is it the second I read that quote I knew people would still rage out and complain about porn and other illegal actions

why? because they are looking for a confirmation bias to have MORE control then just what is illegal

@tryit: And yet there are still computer games on Steam with stolen content using characters that belong to SEGA, assets belonging to Unity and Unreal not for resell - devs even being open about it.

They're still on Steam though because apparently that quote means nothing.

Stolen assets

Stolen character art

Steam's response has come across to me not like they will action only in the absolute extreme measures but really, I feel like they are doing the bare minimum.

At this point, Steam has to abandon the idea that it is a curated and respectable storefront. Memes are all over Steam This is an actual product on an actual game storefront.

I mean you were done before you started. Me though, I'm going to keep hammering the point until Steam works on actual store features, curation, and stops burying half of their good games under unmitigated sewage.

so what is your point?

think about what you are saying

'because Valve can not do the job they say they are going to do that is reason they should....(do what exactly)'?

@tryit: Do their job correctly like they promised. If they are going to take action on illegal content, then do it because they aren't...

I'm taking the morally ambiguous side of the conversation out here and focusing solely on assets that are blatantly stolen that Valve are doing absolutely nothing about despite them saying they are.