Thanks to the Xbox 360...GTA IV potential won't be realized

The game is going to get "dumbed" down for the core 360.  I know this is old news, but I got laughed at and flamed for predicting a GTA IV downgrade because of the 360.  Unfortunately, it looks like I'm right.  RockStar is having to release this game on 2 consoles at the same time...that is automatically more work.  They've never released a GTA game on 2 consoles AT THE SAME TIME!  Couple this with the huge challenge of making the game run well on a core 360. 

What do you think is gonna happen?  Of course the game world is smaller.  RockStar has to work harder than ever to even get this game out in time for both consoles.  How much you want to bet that RockStar is insuring the game works on 360 core THEN porting it to PS3.  RockStar is having to do this for the sole reason there is a very small percentage of people who own a core 360?  That stinks!  This is going to be interesting.  A big streaming world in HD with no load times having to work within the core 360's parameters.  I smell a major downgrade!

Thanks to the PS2, the potential of probably a dozen franchises last gen wasn't realized, and yet Sony fanboys praised that outdated, hard to program for, high failure rate junker all the live long day.  Considering their uproar now over the 360, almost makes you think they don't really care about the games, just their brand loyalty..

The core 360's less powerful than the premium? I thought they are as powerful. What's the deal with the downgrade on the core?m_machine024

Standard HDD allows for data caching that would allow much further view distance and less slow down. 360 GTA4 can't have it because of the Core version.... it's the reason Oblivion load times are way better on PS3.

I will chuckle when it loads faster and looks better on the 360.  

But in all honesty, come on now.  If Rockstar thought the PS3 would be better suited to handle their vision of GTA, they'd simply make a better version for the PS3.  It just so happens, that their vision of what GTA should be works on both consoles.  There was nothing stopping them from putting GTA on 2 discs for the 360, nothing at all, but they didn't do it.  Why not?  They didn't need to, plain and simple.

Nobody cares that the PS2 made GTA more "dumbed down" but nobody ever complained.  If this is all the ammunition you have against the 360, that the lack of a hard drive will limit how great GTA is, then you know what, Lemmings should be laughing and you should be ashamed of yourself. 

Thanks to the PS2, the potential of probably a dozen franchises last gen wasn't realized, and yet Sony fanboys praised that outdated, hard to program for, high failure rate junker all the live long day.  Considering their uproar now over the 360, almost makes you think they don't really care about the games, just their brand loyalty..

AfterShafter

I have been thinking the same thing for a long time.

How many originally exclusive, big beefed up powerhouse Xbox 1 games had to be dumbed down for the PS2's sorry excuse for hardware? How many?
A lot.

It's too bad noone cares, isn't it?

[QUOTE="m_machine024"]The core 360's less powerful than the premium? I thought they are as powerful. What's the deal with the downgrade on the core?Lazy_Boy88

Standard HDD allows for data caching that would allow much further view distance and less slow down. 360 GTA4 can't have it because of the Core version.... it's the reason Oblivion load times are way better on PS3.

[QUOTE="m_machine024"]The core 360's less powerful than the premium? I thought they are as powerful. What's the deal with the downgrade on the core?Lazy_Boy88

Standard HDD allows for data caching that would allow much further view distance and less slow down. 360 GTA4 can't have it because of the Core version.... it's the reason Oblivion load times are way better on PS3.

This is slightly misleading.  The 360's with the hard drive DO actually use some of it for caching, but obviously the game will still work if you don't have a hard drive, you will just have slightly longer load times and more frequency of streaming data off the disc, which isn't much of a problem if you can read it at 12x speed.  

However, if the 360 wanted shorter load times, they could concievably install part of the game files on to the hard-drive (like the PS3 does to limit streaming/accelerate load times) and that would eliminate most of the problems. 

[QUOTE="AfterShafter"]

Thanks to the PS2, the potential of probably a dozen franchises last gen wasn't realized, and yet Sony fanboys praised that outdated, hard to program for, high failure rate junker all the live long day. Considering their uproar now over the 360, almost makes you think they don't really care about the games, just their brand loyalty..

fatzombiepigeon

I have been thinking the same thing for a long time.

How many originally exclusive, big beefed up powerhouse Xbox 1 games had to be dumbed down for the PS2's sorry excuse for hardware? How many?
A lot.

It's too bad noone cares, isn't it?

lol. Cows are funny.

Thanks to the PS2, the potential of probably a dozen franchises last gen wasn't realized, and yet Sony fanboys praised that outdated, hard to program for, high failure rate junker all the live long day. Considering their uproar now over the 360, almost makes you think they don't really care about the games, just their brand loyalty..

AfterShafter

your my hero 

lol a ps3 fanboy complaing about slow down? every game I has on 360 that my friend has on ps3 has better graphics and WAY better framerate, plus with xbox live, achievements and the Xbox brand being better than the PS brand, the ps3 will keep this game just as far back as the 360 would. a select few 360 owners don't have hard drives, but there are things the ps3 can't do that 360 can do...i guarantee the 360 version will look better on the final product

[QUOTE="Lazy_Boy88"]

[QUOTE="m_machine024"]The core 360's less powerful than the premium? I thought they are as powerful. What's the deal with the downgrade on the core?m_machine024

Standard HDD allows for data caching that would allow much further view distance and less slow down. 360 GTA4 can't have it because of the Core version.... it's the reason Oblivion load times are way better on PS3.

hope he knows that Core people cant play Oblivion...since it uses data caching.....so basically R* is using this as an excuse or (since its coming ps magizine) its purely fanboy speculation 

"On PS3 you've got a guarantee that every machine is going to have a hard-drive and, with Blu-ray, you've got plenty of storage, whereas on Xbox 360 there's no guarantee of a hard-drive and you're working with the DVD format. Does that create limitations?" To which he replied, "Yep."

http://kotaku.com/gaming/uh%2C-oh/rockstar-gtaiv-limited-by-360-257184.php 

The core 360's less powerful than the premium? I thought they are as powerful. What's the deal with the downgrade on the core?m_machine024

The Core doesn't have the 20GB HDD. I think Rockstar should make it with the Premium in mind. Anyone who has a Core and wants to play this game should get a HDD. Hopefully M$ will discontinue the XBox 360 Core this fall when they drop the price of the XBox 360. It's not beneficial to developers who need to use the HDD for storing some of the game date for faster load time. I always thought the Core was a bad idea to begin with. I rarely see XBox 360 Core in retail stores now anyways. Developer should put tags on their games stating that HDD is needed to play their games.

Damn MIcrosoft and their choose of using dvd9  for next gen gaming!! elementz28

lmao, you silly kid!!

"On PS3 you've got a guarantee that every machine is going to have a hard-drive and, with Blu-ray, you've got plenty of storage, whereas on Xbox 360 there's no guarantee of a hard-drive and you're working with the DVD format. Does that create limitations?" To which he replied, "Yep."

http://kotaku.com/gaming/uh%2C-oh/rockstar-gtaiv-limited-by-360-257184.php

elementz28

This is just Year 1 of multiplat creations for these 2 systems. As time goes on, I think more and more developers will find those missing items very constricting. 

Well Oblivion fit onto one DVD, and GTA:SA fit onto one original Xbox DVD.

No problems, no downgrade.

Thanks to the PS2.5 many people have to over pay for under delivered performance... When is your mighty console gonna drop a game with decent frame rates?  oh yeah, well, I'll stick with the console that has good graphics and performance... 360colmusterd28

Well, it didn't happen with F.E.A.R. that's for sure.

If this is true and Rockstar downgrades the game to pander to the harddriveless wonders... I'll be disappointed.Private_Vegas

The game is going to get "dumbed" down for the core 360. I know this is old news, but I got laughed at and flamed for predicting a GTA IV downgrade because of the 360. Unfortunately, it looks like I'm right. RockStar is having to release this game on 2 consoles at the same time...that is automatically more work. They've never released a GTA game on 2 consoles AT THE SAME TIME! Couple this with the huge challenge of making the game run well on a core 360.

What do you think is gonna happen? Of course the game world is smaller. RockStar has to work harder than ever to even get this game out in time for both consoles. How much you want to bet that RockStar is insuring the game works on 360 core THEN porting it to PS3. RockStar is having to do this for the sole reason there is a very small percentage of people who own a core 360? That stinks! This is going to be interesting. A big streaming world in HD with no load times having to work within the core 360's parameters. I smell a major downgrade!

AvIdGaMeR444

Wow, again, are you developing the game? No so please throw away your crystal ball.

[QUOTE="Private_Vegas"]If this is true and Rockstar downgrades the game to pander to the harddriveless wonders... I'll be disappointed.AfterShafter

I just want to appologize to everyone for feeding the troll. My bad guys. Sorry.

Come on people! We all know that the PS2 versions of GTA were way superior to the Xbox versions. You could listen to your own custom made soundtracks (oh wait that was Xbox). The level of detail and draw distance was better (oh wait that was also Xbox). It even played in widescreen HDTV if you had the right cables (Xbox Xbox Xbox). But the PS2 was a better value right? (I forgot about the double pack for Xbox that was half the price of the PS2 games).fanboy999

The Xbox version was much better and it's basically because Rockstar created all the GTA for the XBox from the ground up and utilized it's power. They didn't just port it over to the XBox like all the other PS2 games.

[QUOTE="m_machine024"]The core 360's less powerful than the premium? I thought they are as powerful. What's the deal with the downgrade on the core?Lazy_Boy88

Standard HDD allows for data caching that would allow much further view distance and less slow down. 360 GTA4 can't have it because of the Core version.... it's the reason Oblivion load times are way better on PS3.

Draw distance is a function of memory, which is identical on both versions of the 360 as well as the PS3. And what's to stop R* from incorporating data caching and simply turning it off when it detects a Core? Bethesda proved you could do that when it released Oblivion (BTW, the 360 version still scored higher than the PS3 version--9.6 vs. 9.5).

I just want to appologize to everyone for feeding the troll. My bad guys. Sorry.

Private_Vegas

[QUOTE="Lazy_Boy88"]

[QUOTE="m_machine024"]The core 360's less powerful than the premium? I thought they are as powerful. What's the deal with the downgrade on the core?HuusAsking

Standard HDD allows for data caching that would allow much further view distance and less slow down. 360 GTA4 can't have it because of the Core version.... it's the reason Oblivion load times are way better on PS3.

Draw distance is a function of memory, which is identical on both versions of the 360 as well as the PS3. And what's to stop R* from incorporating data caching and simply turning it off when it detects a Core? Bethesda proved you could do that when it released Oblivion (BTW, the 360 version still scored higher than the PS3 version--9.6 vs. 9.5).

Which is why i feel like this is all bs. 

[QUOTE="Private_Vegas"]

I just want to appologize to everyone for feeding the troll. My bad guys. Sorry.

AfterShafter

I'm not supporting anyone. I just said I'd be upset if the game was downgraded because of something as silly as a lack of harddrives. Heck I didn't even say I thought he was right. I said "If" his statement was true. You can go ahead and say/believe whatever you want about the 360's power. It's hard for me to concede since I'm not arguing with you. I hope this serves as sufficient clarification as to my possition on the subject.

Well Oblivion fit onto one DVD, and GTA:SA fit onto one original Xbox DVD.

No problems, no downgrade.

Bgrngod

...says the person who knows nothing about making next gen videogames and is making noting anyone is looking foward to playing in the future.

Thanks to the PS2.5 many people have to over pay for under delivered performance... When is your mighty console gonna drop a game with decent frame rates?  oh yeah, well, I'll stick with the console that has good graphics and performance... 360colmusterd28

You do realize that Oblivion has much better load times on PS3 than 360 right?  Why?  Because PS3 included a hard-drive for launch.  360 had a core version with no hard-drive.  For games that use a LOT OF STREAMING such as Oblivion and GTAIV, 360 version of the game suffers as a result.  Oblivion managed ok on the 360, but it also had loading screens in towns and stuff.  GTAIV WILL HAVE NO LOADING IN GAME AT ALL. 

To get GTAIV to remain stable and not have horrific framerate issues, some serious tweaking is going to have to happen to get this game to run well.  No hard drive to cache the data is GOING TO BE VERY BAD for this game.  Sure, Saints Row managed...but it had tons of glitches.  Like on highways when the road would randomly disappear at times.  Also, with the rocket launcher used in heavy traffic, the game would dip to a framerate less than 10 at times! 

THAT WAS A STREAMING DATA PROBLEM!  GTA IV  I'm sure will be MUCH MORE INVOLVED and have much larger data to stream in-game.  So, yeah....this is going to be a big problem and I believe that RockStar will have to "dumb" the game down considerably whether it be in graphics, less objects, or whatever it takes to get this game to run smoothly and without glitches on a core 360.  Get ready for a downgrade!

Thanks to the PS2, the potential of probably a dozen franchises last gen wasn't realized, and yet Sony fanboys praised that outdated, hard to program for, high failure rate junker all the live long day.  Considering their uproar now over the 360, almost makes you think they don't really care about the games, just their brand loyalty..

AfterShafter

Ha ha.  True.  I didn't read all the posts, but I bet this got flamed.

You do realize that Oblivion has much better load times on PS3 than 360 right?  Why?  Because PS3 included a hard-drive for launch.  360 had a core version with no hard-drive.  For games that use a LOT OF STREAMING such as Oblivion and GTAIV, 360 version of the game suffers as a result.  Oblivion managed ok on the 360, but it also had loading screens in towns and stuff.  GTAIV WILL HAVE NO LOADING IN GAME AT ALL. 

AvIdGaMeR444

To get GTAIV to remain stable and not have horrific framerate issues, some serious tweaking is going to have to happen to get this game to run well.  No hard drive to cache the data is GOING TO BE VERY BAD for this game.  Sure, Saints Row managed...but it had tons of glitches.  Like on highways when the road would randomly disappear at times.  Also, with the rocket launcher used in heavy traffic, the game would dip to a framerate less than 10 at times! 

THAT WAS A STREAMING DATA PROBLEM!  GTA IV  I'm sure will be MUCH MORE INVOLVED and have much larger data to stream in-game.  So, yeah....this is going to be a big problem and I believe that RockStar will have to "dumb" the game down considerably whether it be in graphics, less objects, or whatever it takes to get this game to run smoothly and without glitches on a core 360.  Get ready for a downgrade!

AvIdGaMeR444

Thanks to the PS2, the potential of probably a dozen franchises last gen wasn't realized, and yet Sony fanboys praised that outdated, hard to program for, high failure rate junker all the live long day.  Considering their uproar now over the 360, almost makes you think they don't really care about the games, just their brand loyalty..

AfterShafter

Agreed. You hit the nail on the head.

This gen all cow care about is specs. They sure don't have any AAA games to fall back on!:lol:

It just so happens, that their vision of what GTA should be works on both consoles. There was nothing stopping them from putting GTA on 2 discs for the 360, nothing at all, but they didn't do it. Why not? They didn't need to, plain and simple.

rykaziel

Hmm, so do you think he just said that the 360's lack of storage capacity is holding the game back, because he's a Sony fanboy? Or does it perhaps actually make sense that storage capacity is a good idea (Elite SKU anyone?) What they "need" is limited by what they can do, as it always has been. You didn't "need" motion sensing controllers or an HDD last gen, but if the technology had existed you better believe the potential would have been tapped.

[QUOTE="AvIdGaMeR444"]

You do realize that Oblivion has much better load times on PS3 than 360 right?  Why?  Because PS3 included a hard-drive for launch.  360 had a core version with no hard-drive.  For games that use a LOT OF STREAMING such as Oblivion and GTAIV, 360 version of the game suffers as a result.  Oblivion managed ok on the 360, but it also had loading screens in towns and stuff.  GTAIV WILL HAVE NO LOADING IN GAME AT ALL. 

HuusAsking

Don't confuse cows with facts and logic. They hate that.:)

Cows seem unwilling to admit Oblivion on PS3 had shorter load times because it installed 4GB onto the HDD.

[QUOTE="AfterShafter"]

Thanks to the PS2, the potential of probably a dozen franchises last gen wasn't realized, and yet Sony fanboys praised that outdated, hard to program for, high failure rate junker all the live long day. Considering their uproar now over the 360, almost makes you think they don't really care about the games, just their brand loyalty..

LosDaddie

Agreed. You hit the nail on the head.

This gen all cow care about is specs. They sure don't have any AAA games to fall back on!:lol:

Lemmings have one game, after a year and a half, and its super shiny and 10 hours long. Good game, but nothing to gloat about. 

It's funny how specs come into play when lemmings talk about how uber the "Xenos" is, but they're ignored when the slant favors the PS3. Hypocrisy here is so thick I'm surprised it doesn't cause rifts in the very fabric of the galaxy.  

[QUOTE="LosDaddie"][QUOTE="AfterShafter"]

Thanks to the PS2, the potential of probably a dozen franchises last gen wasn't realized, and yet Sony fanboys praised that outdated, hard to program for, high failure rate junker all the live long day. Considering their uproar now over the 360, almost makes you think they don't really care about the games, just their brand loyalty..

XL83

Agreed. You hit the nail on the head.

This gen all cow care about is specs. They sure don't have any AAA games to fall back on!:lol:

Lemmings have one game, after a year and a half, and its super shiny and 10 hours long. Good game, but nothing to gloat about.

It's funny how specs come into play when lemmings talk about how uber the "Xenos" is, but they're ignored when the slant favors the PS3. Hypocrisy here is so thick I'm surprised it doesn't cause rifts in the very fabric of the galaxy.

Thanks to the PS2, the potential of probably a dozen franchises last gen wasn't realized, and yet Sony fanboys praised that outdated, hard to program for, high failure rate junker all the live long day.  Considering their uproar now over the 360, almost makes you think they don't really care about the games, just their brand loyalty..

AfterShafter