The death of the RPG? :(

What with the scores of Uncharted and Mass Effect, could it be that the golden age of the Role Playing Game is over? Remember way back when the RPG was still on the PC, when the greats first came out? The first game to revive the genre was, without a doubt, the classic Fallout. It's quirky humor and dry wit, set improbably in a post-apocalyptic United States, garnered the game near-universal acclaim. Following it came the universally praised Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn, and the very entertaining Neverwinter Nights, Morrowind and Oblivion. But now, one of the biggest names in RPGs has released its most ambitious project to date, to a lukewarm reception from the reviewer community ... are we seeing the demise of the role playing game?

God I hope it isn't true!

If it is I will be very sad. The RPG is one of the best ways to lose oneself in an engrossing story, to really feel for a set of characters in a way that a shooter, racer, or sports game can't. Remember how you felt when Aerith died? Or when Jon Irenicus taunted you with that deliciously evil voice of his? While I am a huge Halo 3 fan, sometimes I just want to sit down with a quiet RPG and get lost in its wonderful tale. It's the video game version of a novel, in my opinion. Done well, it can do for a gamer what almost no other genre can.

But besides the one massive success of the Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, we haven't seen a single RPG this year that comes anywhere near a decent score. Two Worlds was an absolute joke. Enchanted Arms wasn't much better. Folklore was decent, but had a raft of odd design decisions that ulitmately detracted from its charm. And now the best hope of RPG lovers everywhere has just flopped ... what happened?

To be frank, I must admit that I'll probably not give two cents what Gamespot says, Mass Effect is still a 10.0 to me, just because it's being released by Bioware, who has released more of my favorite games than any other company (Baldur's Gate series, Icewind Dale series, Jade Empire, Neverwinter Nights, KOTOR). I'd pick it up tomorrow even if it had recieved a 1.0 here, so in retrospect, I guess I'm not as disheartened as this post might indicate. Still, I'm saddened. If even Bioware can't release a AAA RPG, who can? Here's to hoping Bethesda comes out with the Elder Scrolls V: L33TSAUC3 and get a perfect 10.0.

I played Eternal Sonata for 3 hours straight today, and I can assure you...RPGs are not dead.

stoped reading when you said uncharted was an rpgMizarus

:lol:

RPG's are hard to get right, there are far mor JRPGs these days, but they are losing the plot as far as im concerned. WRPG's were cool back in the PC days because i could kill anyone i wanted, even important NPC's that forced you to reload becasue you broke the game, i just thought it was cool, if not pointless.

I think the RPGs in the future will not be like the one we remember, hopefully for the better bringing in more active elements instead of heavy number crunching and routine grinding. It's not so much the quality of production and gameplay systems going down, for me the writters fail to capture enough imagination or interest from me.

Morrowind -> Oblivion

System Shock 2 -> Bioshock.

That right there had killed the RPG genre for me awhile ago. I have no hope in the genre just like how I have no hope in side scrollers. I'm stuck playing in the past now and let me tell you that it is totally not radical dude... I mean it sucks like hell bro.

8.5 is a "Great" game, which is GS's opinion. Don't forget, Dragon Age for PC is coming next year, that should be Bioware's next greatest sinlge player RPG, every RPG fan is waiting for this one. Before DA comes out, be on look out for Space Siege in Q1-Q2 from Gas Powered Games as this is Chris Taylor's new work, and it looks awsome, especially since it's a Sci-fi RPG that I personally find the most interesting.

After that, there are countless MMO's in the works, and let's face it, MMO's are just the next logical iteration of the RPG genre. Bioware is making the KOTOR MMO, don't forget, and Warhammer Online is coming next year as well, which looks like it's going to give WoW a run for it's money. After that or around that time, look for WoW's next huge expansion, Wrath of the Lich King as well. Than, look no further than Flagship Studios and their Mythos game, which is a free MMO and you can sign up for beta right now. It will offer a microtransaction model to support the game, and after playing it for many hours, it's outstanding.

I think RPG's are alive and well.

As far as I know an 8.0 and 8.5 are still pretty nice scores, if you see a score like this the game deserves to be played. So no, this hasn't triggered the death of the RPG, not at all.Sparticus247

There nice scores when its your game that flops, leemings gave us sheep crap about TP, and metroid, so its time the tables turned. BTW, im not calling you a lemming.

Folklore is a good rpg. and more to come from square and level 5. what are you talking about?

Since when did Tomb Raider clones and Space Odysseytype games be considered Role Playing Games :lol:

Isthisajokethread:lol:

Mass Effect scored hired than the PS3 Tomb Raider clone. :lol:

CowsthoughtitwasgoingtobeAAAGOTY.:lol:

Morrowind -> Oblivion

System Shock 2 -> Bioshock.

That right there had killed the RPG genre for me awhile ago. I have no hope in the genre just like how I have no hope in side scrollers. I'm stuck playing in the past now and let me tell you that it is totally not radical dude... I mean it sucks like hell bro.

ArcticSnake

I agree with the System Shock2 statement. That game is the best out of the shock series.

One person's OPINION of a product does not signal the beginning or end of ANYTHING! RPGs are not dying because of ONE person's scoring, so calm down. They're still alive and well; I'm surprised that so many people are heartwrenched by the scoring of a select few games; does it really have any bearing on you?!

Hardly, the strong point of Mass Effect is its roleplaying.PBSnipes

This.

This is what it is all about folks.

Not the ****ing cinematics.

Not the ****ing spells or swords or guns or gunswords or pretty hair and tight black clothing.

Not the ****ing gameplay sty1e.

This.

Thats why its called a Role Playing Game.

I would agree with your post if you didn't use Oblivion as a example.. Oblivion imo is one of the worse thigns ever to happen to the RPG genre.. It basically cut and guted the RPG genere and added alot of senseless and shallow action to it with no real dififculty (except for a generic slider which only causes you to cheese more cheap tactics) that a 10 year old can do... It had little to no rpg elemetns to it...

Character devolpment with skills? No not reall yyou can use any skill through out the game regardless of what you choose in the beginning.. And in the end they are all maxed out.. It doesn't make any sense for replay value or uniquness if your supposed barbarian is a master theif and spell caster.. Strategy in character devolpment? None, races have little to no differences, and mostly all birth signs are the exact same.. Diablo 2 a suppposed shallow hack and slash RPG had 100X the character devolpment that could fundamentally change your playthrong each game...

These problems are magnifeid even more with a statically leveled enviroment where every on eis your level.. It breaks immersion, and items are rediculouslly scalred.. where in the end game a lowly theif will be wearing gear that could buy him a castle, and has a skill that cna rival a warrior king..

Story? There is none worth mentioning.. Its all very cliche not to mention stupid where Oblivion gates just has guys just walking around at the gate.. Items are linear Final Fantasy progression with little varience.. Axes are blunts now? WTF come on, are people this stupid to not have a difference in weapons.. Like it would even matter WHEN you can max out every skill int he game.. You don't have to think too Hard (because after all we don't want the kiddies hurting their heads when deciding stratigcally/rpg wise on building their character)..

Conquences? Breaking the law, yep sure makes sense.. Paying off the gaurds that basically it.. Matters are made worse when telepathic guards plague you every where.. Yeah clearly there are conquences.. Because ACCEPTING OR DECLINING A QUEST is such a intersting and basic idea.. I had more decision making in Baldur's gate 2 a game nearly 10 years old.. Oblivion is what is wrong witht eh RPG industry right now.. To be quite frank its a game made for stupid people.. This is of course all my opinion. Don't be angry if you like the game.. Just saying I can not even call this game a RPG, because imo its NOT.

Its closer to Bioshock then it is to the late great RPGs that people rave about.

One person's OPINION of a product does not signal the beginning or end of ANYTHING! RPGs are not dying because of ONE person's scoring, so calm down. They're still alive and well; I'm surprised that so many people are heartwrenched by the scoring of a select few games; does it really have any bearing on you?!

Cerberus_Legion

I think the RPG genre is dieing when we see every one jump on the hype wagon for Oblivion, when it has been dumbed down in every way possible so an idiot can play it..

Well, perhaps I should qualify. I don't know if anyone remembered an RPG gem a few years back called Planescape: Torment. It didn't sell well, but it had nearly universal acclaim as one of the best feats that BioWare had ever managed to create. It was a masterpiece of storytelling: every character was a living breathing person, with quirks and downfalls and personality, and you genuinely felt for the doomed Dyonarra, or the quirky Morte, or the quick-witted Annah. It was truly a great RPG experience with a story that in my opinion has not been matched since. That was what RPGs were supposed to be. If that game had today's graphics it may well have earned a 10.0. I haven't played Mass Effect yet, but it was produced by the same folks. So, the questions are:

1) If Mass Effect is as good as Planescape: Torment, why isn't it getting the same kind of reviews and reception?
2) If it isn't, what's happened? How did BioWare manage to screw up the genre it pretty much defines?

As for Oblivion: it's a very immersive experience if you let it, but the dirty secret is that I prefer Morrowind. Nevertheless, I thought that Obivion was a very decent experience. However, if you ask me, the RPG genre was in decline ever since Planescape: Torment failed at the box office. A game of such greatness should never fail in a just and fair world. Too bad we don't live in one.

As for Mass Effect: I read the review. Everything they said that was bad about it was equally bad in Planescape: Torment. Just read the PS:T review here at GameSpot and you'll see the exact same gripes. Yet PS:T got AAA. Mass Effect? Only an 8.5. Where's the justice in that? However to be fair, PS:T really did have one of the most emotional, engrossing storylines ever told by any medium, imho. It really rivalled even hardcover novels in complexity and depth. And its ending actually made me sit there as the credits rolled by, mind still reeling. The sad thing is, I never had a similar experience before or since.

Hasn't anyone noticed, by the way, how the industry is constantly spending more and more time on getting l33t graph1x and therefore neglecting deep storytelling? Baldur's Gate II had totally awful graphics if you compare it to today's beasts, but because they didn't have much to work with in that department, they had more time and energy to spend crafting a truly compelling story. Nowadays it's all about how many pixels you can push out, and there's no room left for how many people you can flesh out.

The TC obviously didnt read or watch the review

The biggest draw to an RPG is the story telling and the delivery. Mass Effect does both very well but the score(Opinion) is dropped if the person playing the game is less forgiving to the technical flaws and the tedious menu system depending on what type of person you are.

Um, I did read the review (and I am the TC). Like I said, everything that was bad about Mass Effect was equally bad if not worse in Planescape Torment. PS:T had a terrible menu system that was far clunkier than Mass Effect's, in fact it was so clunky it took up half the screen. The game was riddled with bugs to the degree that you needed to have the patch in order to play it at all, and the whole game was at such a close perspective that it was almost impossible to use ranged characters. PS:T came loaded down with tons of problems that matched if not exceeded Mass Effect's and yet GameSpot (as well as just about every other reviewer) gave it AAA. Mass Effect, on the other hand, by the same company, did not get the same treatment. The very same ills that were completely overlooked for PS:T dragged Mass Effect's scores down nearly two points. Click the link for the PS:T review right here at Gamespot (9.0. Editor's Choice for good measure). You'll see the exact same gripes as for Mass Effect. Except instead of docking points, the reviewer ignored them, and focused on what made the game great.

So either the games have gotten worse, or the way people review games has changed a lot. Probably both, unfortunately. And I find that fact infinitely sad.

Well, perhaps I should qualify. I don't know if anyone remembered an RPG gem a few years back called Planescape: Torment. It didn't sell well, but it had nearly universal acclaim as one of the best feats that BioWare had ever managed to create. It was a masterpiece of storytelling: every character was a living breathing person, with quirks and downfalls and personality, and you genuinely felt for the doomed Dyonarra, or the quirky Morte, or the quick-witted Annah. It was truly a great RPG experience with a story that in my opinion has not been matched since. That was what RPGs were supposed to be. If that game had today's graphics it may well have earned a 10.0. I haven't played Mass Effect yet, but it was produced by the same folks. So, the questions are:

1) If Mass Effect is as good as Planescape: Torment, why isn't it getting the same kind of reviews and reception?
2) If it isn't, what's happened? How did BioWare manage to screw up the genre it pretty much defines?

As for Oblivion: it's a very immersive experience if you let it, but the dirty secret is that I prefer Morrowind. Nevertheless, I thought that Obivion was a very decent experience. However, if you ask me, the RPG genre was in decline ever since Planescape: Torment failed at the box office. A game of such greatness should never fail in a just and fair world. Too bad we don't live in one.

As for Mass Effect: I read the review. Everything they said that was bad about it was equally bad in Planescape: Torment. Just read the PS:T review here at GameSpot and you'll see the exact same gripes. Yet PS:T got AAA. Mass Effect? Only an 8.5. Where's the justice in that? However to be fair, PS:T really did have one of the most emotional, engrossing storylines ever told by any medium, imho. It really rivalled even hardcover novels in complexity and depth. And its ending actually made me sit there as the credits rolled by, mind still reeling. The sad thing is, I never had a similar experience before or since.Opalescent

I agree that Planescape is a masterful game and easily one of the great RPGs of all-time, but it was developed by Black Isle, the developers of the legendary Fallout 1 and 2. Not Bioware. A bunch of guys from Black Isle ended up going to Obsidian, a developer with close ties to Bioware, so that may be where the confusion lies.

Black Isle is missed. They and Bioware were very easily the two best developers of WRPGs. Now we have Fallout 3 in the hands of Bethesda. Oblivion was fun on the PC, because the mods saved it. That game had a lot of problems that I and others fear will translate to Fallout 3, and that judging from some previews already is.

As far as you wondering about the Mass Effect review, this is precisely why I posted earlier that people need to stop taking one man's opinion to such an extent. The review doesn't even match the score. No RPG fan would ever let technical issues mar the heart and soul of a role-playing game. The guy complains about problems with the interface, as if console RPGs are known for their brilliant and intuitive interfaces. Ultimately, the review's cons boil down to: lackluster vehicular combat, some technical glitches, and a poor interface. This somehow knocks 1.5 off the score of an RPG, and to make matters worse, he also goes on to praise the story, dialogue, characters, acting, graphics, on-foot combat. Basically everything else, including everything that actually matters in an RPG.

Metacritic has Mass Effect at AAA with 28 reviews. It's an AAA-level game, undoubtedly, no matter what Gamespot says. People on SW can harp on about flop this, flop that, but Gamespot's overall opinion on the game is clearly in the minority.

Mass Effect, on the other hand, by the same company

Opalescent

Fallout 3 - next great RPG after Mass Effect Nervermind the haters, because I'm optimistic Bethsoft can at least bring back the feel of the original.dlind70

Isn't Fallout 3 multiplatform? I don't trust any companies with multiplatform titles anymore.

[QUOTE="dlind70"]Fallout 3 - next great RPG after Mass Effect Nervermind the haters, because I'm optimistic Bethsoft can at least bring back the feel of the original._Pedro_

Isn't Fallout 3 multiplatform? I don't trust any companies with multiplatform titles anymore.

[QUOTE="_Pedro_"]

[QUOTE="dlind70"]Fallout 3 - next great RPG after Mass Effect Nervermind the haters, because I'm optimistic Bethsoft can at least bring back the feel of the original.Harbadakus

Isn't Fallout 3 multiplatform? I don't trust any companies with multiplatform titles anymore.

I don't trust valve either. The Orange Box could've turned up badly for the PC, yet funny enough it kinda went the other way.

[QUOTE="_Pedro_"]

[QUOTE="dlind70"]Fallout 3 - next great RPG after Mass Effect Nervermind the haters, because I'm optimistic Bethsoft can at least bring back the feel of the original.Harbadakus

Isn't Fallout 3 multiplatform? I don't trust any companies with multiplatform titles anymore.

Valve develops their games with the PC in mind, though. I know that console owners hate the term "consolization" and consider it condescending, but it's a very real thing, unfortunately. Consoles appeal more to the mass market and have control schemes that are significantly less complex and versatile than PCs, so when developers make games with the consoles in mind, it tends to really hurt the PC version almost by default since they don't bother to make it PC-friendly and tend to neuter the content and gameplay to make it more appealing to the average Joe.

There's been particular evidence of that this generation, with games like Oblivion and Rainbow Six: Vegas, among others. I don't think we ever have to worry about something like that from Valve, though.

stoped reading when you said uncharted was an rpgMizarus

RPGs lack in quality now unlike the last gens weather it's JRPG or WRPG.. not to mention theres not that many of them compared to all the shooters.

Although it's gotta be said The Witcher is just a kick a$$ RPG, it deserves GOTY and it's made by some unknown dev team. It's sad that most of the popular dev teams can only make sub par rpgs and some none existant dev team called CDPROJEKl comes out of nowhere and makes a truly astounding masterpiece. Not even the legendary sakaguchi the creator of chrono trigger can make good rpgs anymore only sucky ones like blue dragon... not holding out much hope for LOST ODD either.

Don't let the score jade you so much. I'm dissapointed that seeing as how it got the score it got it won't be considered for game of the year, because I think the game does some things that have never been done before and really do put the genre in another stage, and advance the genre, but I can take my licks and admit I got owned. I legitimately thought this game could get a 10, I did.

But, let's remember. This game, will be amazing. It will be the best game I've played all year, maybe in the past few years, because I love this type of game. And, what I think is one of the best games of all time, and EVERYONE usually agrees when someone says this, Deus Ex only got an 8.2 here. Sadly, amazing presentation and incredible story and gameplay DO get overshadowed by nagging issues. And Mass Effect has them, and I can accept that.

I cant really comment as far as WRPG's go, I only have Diablo 2 and all the Icewind Dale's. I was always a JRPG fan - ever since Illusion of Time on the SNES (part of the Soul Blazer series. That game sold me on the whole concept of RPG's in general (not just JRPG's), so for all those elitists out there who dislike RPG's - without the Golden Age of JRPG's on the SNES, I would never have discovered WRPG's either.

the death of the RPGs is due to games like Oblivion who try to be a rpg but then fails and its nothing more than a action/adventure game

RPG's are no where near dead and Uncharted isn't an RPG.

Two PC RPG's of this year that spring to mind straight away is The Witcher and Silverfall.

Doomed I tell you, doooooooomed!!!

I mean what with Mass Effect and The Witcher being two of the best RPG's to grace computers in years we can surely herald the death of the genre :roll:.

Doomed I tell you, doooooooomed!!!

I mean what with Mass Effect and The Witcher being two of the best RPG's to grace computers in years we can surely herald the death of the genre :roll:.

Stonin