The flaws of the Witcher 2 (spoilers)

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"][QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

Same. I don't get why a TPS would have any effect on an RPG.

DragonfireXZ95

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"][QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"] Say what you will, but ME2 is better than The witcher 2 let alone ME3.i5750at4Ghz

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"]

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"] ME2 was not better than TW2, that's just your opinion. I thought TW2 was a lot better than ME2.DragonfireXZ95

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"][QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"] Subjectively yes, objectively no. ME2 is the much better game, fact is the game reviewed much better. In terms of a debate it's hard to consider TW2 the better game objectively.

i5750at4Ghz

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"][QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"] What do you expect when many of TW2 reviews down score for difficulty? Fact is, TW2 was not made for mainstream reviewers, ME2 was.DragonfireXZ95

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"][QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"] Subjectively yes, objectively no. ME2 is the much better game, fact is the game reviewed much better. In terms of a debate it's hard to consider TW2 the better game objectively.

i5750at4Ghz

So a bunch of opinions, which are based of their experience which is subjective, can be counted as an item for objectivity? Shouldn't objectivity be hard facts, which with fun is completely subjective? Isn't this why even though CoD scores and sells very high, its considered to be a very poor game? Its not like reviews are scientific studies.

Going by reviews is no different than going by opinions of a single person or forum.

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"]

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"] Doesn't change the fact it reviewed worse.i5750at4Ghz

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"][QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"] That doesn't matter, I still think TW2 is a better game, and so do many people on this forum.

DragonfireXZ95

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"][QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"] What do you expect when many of TW2 reviews down score for difficulty? Fact is, TW2 was not made for mainstream reviewers, ME2 was.ChubbyGuy40

So a bunch of opinions, which are based of their experience which is subjective, can be counted as an item for objectivity? Shouldn't objectivity be hard facts, which with fun is completely subjective? Isn't this why even though CoD scores and sells very high, its considered to be a very poor game? Its not like reviews are scientific studies.

Going by reviews is no different than going by opinions of a single person or forum.

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"][QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"] Which is fine, your opinion is your own. However it doesn't do much in terms of an objective debate.i5750at4Ghz

So why did so many reviewers find it so hard then? Riddle me that.

Like this one from Guardian(80 score):"But if it feels challenging, the fact that Witcher 2 is fiendishly hard from the outset is half its appeal. It's a long time since I've spent half an hour trying to tackle a game's very first tutorial mission, but fighting even a handful of guards while escaping a burning castle proved impossible without repeated use of the excellent quicksave system."

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"]

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"] Yes, but if you make games easy and cater to such a wide audience(the younger or more inept crowd) obviously you aren't going to get reviews that focus solely on the difficulty of the game. And that's just what ME2 did.DragonfireXZ95

So why did so many reviewers find it so hard then? Riddle me that.

Like this one from Guardian(80 score):But if it feels challenging, the fact that Witcher 2 is fiendishly hard from the outset is half its appeal.

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"]

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"] TW2 is just as easy if not easier than ME2 though.... Pop Quen mash X, and I beat the game on Hard.

i5750at4Ghz

So why did so many reviewers find it so hard then? Riddle me that.

Like this one from Guardian(80 score):But if it feels challenging, the fact that Witcher 2 is fiendishly hard from the outset is half its appeal.

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"][QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"]

So why did so many reviewers find it so hard then? Riddle me that.

Like this one from Guardian(80 score):But if it feels challenging, the fact that Witcher 2 is fiendishly hard from the outset is half its appeal.

DragonfireXZ95

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"] Doesn't change the fact it reviewed worse.i5750at4Ghz

So a bunch of opinions, which are based of their experience which is subjective, can be counted as an item for objectivity? Shouldn't objectivity be hard facts, which with fun is completely subjective? Isn't this why even though CoD scores and sells very high, its considered to be a very poor game? Its not like reviews are scientific studies.

Going by reviews is no different than going by opinions of a single person or forum.

There is no clear way to judge, just like in art or music. The quality is subjective. The only thing we can keep doing is bickering to each other what we think is best.

I would suggest who's game mechanics and other items hold up best over time, but even that would be bogged down by subjectivity since theres no rules to judge by which are set-in-stone.

Oh noes, a mostly shooting game Mass Effect 3 will be a threat to a RPG game called Witcher 2.

CD PROJECT made a very nooby mistake which they didn't make in the first game. If you remember the tutorial messages in the prologue paused the game and explained to you the game mechanics. In W2, they were written in some small font and disappeared before I could read them.Yes, they were in the Journal, but realistically, fewer people read them this way. While I understand they didn't want to break the pace of the game, it was a mistake IMO.

And that was one of the main reasons why some people found the beginning difficult.

CD PROJECT made a very nooby mistake which they didn't make in the first game. If you remember the tutorial messages in the prologue paused the game and explained to you the game mechanics. In W2, they were written in some small font and disappeared before I could read them.Yes, they were in the Journal, but realistically, fewer people read them this way. While I understand they didn't want to break the pace of the game, it was a mistake IMO.

And that was one of the main reasons why some people found the beginning difficult.

KiZZo1

Guess that sucks for people who can't read fast and multitask. :PDragonfireXZ95

Yes, maybe you have heard know that not everybody's native language is English?

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"]Guess that sucks for people who can't read fast and multitask. :PKiZZo1

Yes, maybe you have heard know that not everybody's native language is English?

Yeah, and?

Why don't they just open up the journal? :|

[QUOTE="KiZZo1"]

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"]Guess that sucks for people who can't read fast and multitask. :PDragonfireXZ95

Yes, maybe you have heard know that not everybody's native language is English?

Yeah, and?

Why don't they just open up the journal? :|

I personally read the manual. But do you think most people did that?

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"]

[QUOTE="KiZZo1"]

Yes, maybe you have heard know that not everybody's native language is English?

KiZZo1

Yeah, and?

Why don't they just open up the journal? :|

I personally read the manual. But do you think most people did that?

If they don't, they probably shouldn't be playing a game like TW2.

Why do you think some of those reviewers had such a hard time with the game? ;)

[QUOTE="KiZZo1"]

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"]

Yeah, and?

Why don't they just open up the journal? :|

DragonfireXZ95

I personally read the manual. But do you think most people did that?

If they don't, they probably shouldn't be playing a game like TW2.

Why do you think some of those reviewers had such a hard time with the game? ;)

I finish 95% of all games without reading the manual. Are you calling me brainless?

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"]

[QUOTE="KiZZo1"]

I personally read the manual. But do you think most people did that?

KiZZo1

If they don't, they probably shouldn't be playing a game like TW2.

Why do you think some of those reviewers had such a hard time with the game? ;)

I finish 95% of all games without reading the manual. Are you calling me brainless?

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]

I think this is the best RPG this generation...CD Projeckt is king of the mountain at the moment, but some glaring flaws will prevent them from holding that throne, especially after Mass Effect 3 is released.Blacklight2

Stopped reading there.

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"][QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"]

So why did so many reviewers find it so hard then? Riddle me that.

Like this one from Guardian(80 score):But if it feels challenging, the fact that Witcher 2 is fiendishly hard from the outset is half its appeal.

DragonfireXZ95

The difference is that the hardest part of TW2 is the tutorial level, past that it's actually fairly easy. On average, I'd say ME2 was harder, shoot me for it, but hey.

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"][QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"] Most people aren't very patient. I took the time to test each sign in detail during my first run through the prologue. Quen was easily the best so thats what I upgraded. By lvl 10 I was a god.TheOtherTheoG

The difference is that the hardest part of TW2 is the tutorial level, past that it's actually fairly easy. On average, I'd say ME2 was harder, shoot me for it, but hey.

[QUOTE="KiZZo1"]

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"] If they had any kind of brain they would.

If they don't, they probably shouldn't be playing a game like TW2.

Why do you think some of those reviewers had such a hard time with the game? ;)

DragonfireXZ95

I finish 95% of all games without reading the manual. Are you calling me brainless?

I didn't, because:

1) They had proper difficulty curve. W2 is hardest in the beginning/prologue. This is wrong because in the beginning of a game you still are not fully accustomed to the controls, interface and in general to the game. That didn't bother me personaly, but I like challenging games when they are rewarding (and the Witcher is). However, I can see how a casual gamer could be frustrated - people have certain expectations about "Normal" difficulty.

2) Those other games had proper integration of the tutorial into the game.You shouldn't be given too much information at once and the game shouldn't split your attention by presenting the player with a tutorial message and at the same time something interesting happens in the game (a fight, character interaction, whatever). One example - I finished Ninja Gaiden, a game that is considered quite difficult and with deep combat system, without reading the manual.

Mass Effect 3 is going to have a much biger impact from imported saved games from ME1 and ME2...no contest. Also since its the end of the trilogy, the choice and consquence may be the strongest we have seen, even surpassing TW2. Add more depth to the relationships with already established and deep characters and a sense of urgency and mE3 is the game to beat.texasgoldrush

It could be, but then again lots of people thought the import feature for ME2 would also be amazing, and all that did was add a few cameos here and there.

Personally, I doubt our choices in Mass Effect 1 or 2 will have anywhere near as big an effect on ME3's plot as, for example TW2's choice in Act 1. They'll probably affect which characters join your party, and potentially which races help you against the Reapers, but I don't see them impacting the plot all that much.
Bioware doesn't have a history of significantly changing anything depending on your choices (unless Dragon Age 2 did that, I don't know - never played it), so I don't think we can readily assume that they'll do so in a spectacular manner.

With TW2, on the other hand, CD Projekt showed that they're willing to make entirely different storylines depending on your actions, to the point where players will only see about half of the plot in any given playthrough, so there's potential for the final game in that trilogy to really shake things up as far as far-reaching consequences go.

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"][QUOTE="KiZZo1"]

I finish 95% of all games without reading the manual. Are you calling me brainless?

KiZZo1

I didn't, because:

1) They had proper difficulty curve. W2 is hardest in the beginning/prologue. This is wrong because in the beginning of a game you still are not fully accustomed to the controls, interface and in general to the game. That didn't bother me personaly, but I like challenging games when they are rewarding (and the Witcher is). However, I can see how a casual gamer could be frustrated - people have certain expectations about "Normal" difficulty.

2) Those other games had proper integration of the tutorial into the game.You shouldn't be given too much information at once and the game shouldn't split your attention by presenting the player with a tutorial message and at the same time something interesting happens in the game (a fight, character interaction, whatever). One example - I finished Ninja Gaiden, a game that is considered quite difficult and with deep combat system, without reading the manual.

Meh, I was fine, difficulty isn't a problem for me unless it's cheap, which TW2 was not. Look at Demon's Souls, there wasn't much of a tutorial for that either. It taught you the proper controls, then let you loose, on a boss no less.

In TW2, you're taught the proper controls when you have to fire the ballista, and then it pretty much lets loose. What's the difference?

FYI, I also loved both games. Couple of my favorite RPG's of all time(although TW2 might be my actual favorite of all time).

[QUOTE="Barbariser"]

The REAL benefit of going for Triss is not saving her (she never dies no matter what you do), but ****** up Nilfgaard's plans to screw over the lodge of sorceresses. If you go for Saskia then you will NOT be able to stop Shilard from convincing all the Northern Kingdoms that the mages were out to get them. Sure, you get to return her independence back to her thus guaranteeing the future of the PFS (that's the choice I made) but on the flipside the Northern Kingdoms are now piss-weakened.

texasgoldrush

Had you been paying attention, you would have realized that pretty much ALL mages get **** over if you pick Saskia, whereas saving Triss will limit the damage to the two plotters and a few innocents on the side. Face it, picking Triss has its benefits and it is hardly a lopsided choice, especially when you consider that you can keep Saskia alive without going after Philippa first, and Geralt will even mention that he still thinks there are opportunities to free her from the influence.

I just did. The game unlike most gets easier as you go. By the middle of act I you can pretty much hack and slash your way through everything. There is no running through ME2 on insane.i5750at4Ghz

Unless you are comparing Witcher 2 to Mass Effect 2 on the same difficulty level (and I somehow doubt that you played Witcher 2 on insane), you have no basis for such a comment.

I played both games on normal difficulty, and Witcher 2 killed me far far more often even in the later game. This is despite the fact that unlike Mass Effect 2, it doesn't use a moronic level scaling system to artifically maintain the element of challenge by making character development utterly pointless.

Subjectively yes, objectively no. ME2 is the much better game, fact is the game reviewed much better. In terms of a debate it's hard to consider TW2 the better game objectively.

i5750at4Ghz

Reviews are nothing more than opinions that the writer gets paid to express in a few hundred words. If you are indeed saying that Mass Effect 2 is "objectively better" than The Witcher 2 (as if objective quality even exists), you are going to have to use a stronger argument than "a bunch of dudes say so".

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"] I just did. The game unlike most gets easier as you go. By the middle of act I you can pretty much hack and slash your way through everything. There is no running through ME2 on insane.Barbariser

Unless you are comparing Witcher 2 to Mass Effect 2 on the same difficulty level (and I somehow doubt that you played Witcher 2 on insane), you have no basis for such a comment.

I played both games on normal difficulty, and Witcher 2 killed me far far more often even in the later game. This is despite the fact that unlike Mass Effect 2, it doesn't use a moronic level scaling system to artifically maintain the element of challenge by making character development utterly pointless.

Subjectively yes, objectively no. ME2 is the much better game, fact is the game reviewed much better. In terms of a debate it's hard to consider TW2 the better game objectively.

i5750at4Ghz

Reviews are nothing more than opinions that the writer gets paid to express in a few hundred words. If you are indeed saying that Mass Effect 2 is "objectively better" than The Witcher 2 (as if objective quality even exists), you are going to have to use a stronger argument than "a bunch of dudes say so".

I thought the save import was just as good as ME2 and I didn't even know it had it until I loaded the game, if anything it made me realise what a half arsed effort we got in ME compared to everything that was hyped about the import. I enjoyed both games a lot either way.

I thought the save import was just as good as ME2 and I didn't even know it had it until I loaded the game, if anything it made me realise what a half arsed effort we got in ME compared to everything that was hyped about the import. I enjoyed both games a lot either way.

SapSacPrime

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="Barbariser"]

The REAL benefit of going for Triss is not saving her (she never dies no matter what you do), but ****** up Nilfgaard's plans to screw over the lodge of sorceresses. If you go for Saskia then you will NOT be able to stop Shilard from convincing all the Northern Kingdoms that the mages were out to get them. Sure, you get to return her independence back to her thus guaranteeing the future of the PFS (that's the choice I made) but on the flipside the Northern Kingdoms are now piss-weakened.

Barbariser

Had you been paying attention, you would have realized that pretty much ALL mages get **** over if you pick Saskia, whereas saving Triss will limit the damage to the two plotters and a few innocents on the side. Face it, picking Triss has its benefits and it is hardly a lopsided choice, especially when you consider that you can keep Saskia alive without going after Philippa first, and Geralt will even mention that he still thinks there are opportunities to free her from the influence.

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"][QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

From what I've played of it, which is very little, I wouldn't even put ME2 past New Vegas. Why have I played little of it? Because I don't enjoy forcing myself to play what I find to be a bad game.

ChubbyGuy40

I don't remember most saying ME2 is the superior game other than Bioware fanboys.

So... you deny that Mass Effect 2 has any possibility to be better liked than the Witcher 2... with consideration to the fact that those who actually do like the former better, have their opinions dismissed by you.

Um, sure then, I guess the Witcher 2 is the superior game.

Oh noes, a mostly shooting game Mass Effect 3 will be a threat to a RPG game called Witcher 2.

Mr_BillGates

[QUOTE="Barbariser"]

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"]

Unless you are comparing Witcher 2 to Mass Effect 2 on the same difficulty level (and I somehow doubt that you played Witcher 2 on insane), you have no basis for such a comment.

I played both games on normal difficulty, and Witcher 2 killed me far far more often even in the later game. This is despite the fact that unlike Mass Effect 2, it doesn't use a moronic level scaling system to artifically maintain the element of challenge by making character development utterly pointless.

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"] Subjectively yes, objectively no. ME2 is the much better game, fact is the game reviewed much better. In terms of a debate it's hard to consider TW2 the better game objectively.

GeneralShowzer

Reviews are nothing more than opinions that the writer gets paid to express in a few hundred words. If you are indeed saying that Mass Effect 2 is "objectively better" than The Witcher 2 (as if objective quality even exists), you are going to have to use a stronger argument than "a bunch of dudes say so".

Can I say... I told you so? At least that, it wouldn't leave everyone in awe?

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"][QUOTE="Barbariser"]

Reviews are nothing more than opinions that the writer gets paid to express in a few hundred words. If you are indeed saying that Mass Effect 2 is "objectively better" than The Witcher 2 (as if objective quality even exists), you are going to have to use a stronger argument than "a bunch of dudes say so".

SkyWard20

Can I say... I told you so? At least that, it wouldn't leave everyone in awe?

One of the worst flaws in TW2 is the fist-fighting control. WASD for fighting? Dumb. Bring back the mouse.

Regarding Saskia, would you rather rescue her now or try to do it later. There is no choice here. Even if the mages get screwed over, its still a lopsided choice in favor of Saskia or Anais. The Northern Kingdoms would DEFINITELY be weakened if Anais is not revealed to be royal blood at the conclave. And Saskia is a huge inspiration to people, which could help unity in the North. And really, mages getting attacked is just a side effect of not supporting Triss, its really the rest of the Lodge that is put in danger. Its a choice between the political and the personal, and the personal is fuffilled regardless. The expansion and TW3 could make this choice far less lopsided, but for now, its lopsided.texasgoldrush

Saskia will be around *regardless* of whether or not you choose to free her from Philippa's will, the Lodge still needs her to govern over the Pontar Free State, you realize? The entire revolution was planned by them. The only way she won't be around to inspire the people (and the only ones she inspires are peasants and nonhumans, which the other Northern Kings do not want) is if you decide to put her out of her misery. And Anais is about ten years away from becoming elligible for rule. She will not be able to significantly boost the situation when the Nilfgaardians are attacking right now.

Going with Triss allows for the formation of the Conclave, which has significant consequences in the sense that the other sorceresses in the Lodge are safe and sound along with pretty much every single mage in the North, the Nilgaardians haven't successfully gotten the Northern Kings to butcher their own advisors and the shadow politicking of the Lodge is now no longer possible, as Triss herself says. The choice is not lopsided, except perhaps from your point of view exclusively.