The Future of PC Graphics!

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treedoor

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#51 treedoor
Member since 2004 • 7648 Posts

[QUOTE="Snagal123"]

[QUOTE="Easyle"]

Doesn't matter. They go out of the way to make it look highly realistic with good lighting and everything, and they can't add bubbles or anything to indicate they are underwater. I mean seriously, how could they overlook this?

Easyle

Why should there be bubbles? Propellers don't always produce bubbles and i don't see anyone breathing or anyleaking oxygen or other gas. Bubbles have to have a reason for being there, if theres nothing to produce them putting them in for no reason isin't going to be realistic.

When you move through the water, some sort of stream or bubbles are created. Not having that isn't very realistic at all... its a tech demo true, but that still seems like a glaring error to me.

And what are bubbles filled with?

Gas! Oxygen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, you name it.

Now tell me why would a propeller be producing these gases hundreds of feet under water?

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dc337

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#52 dc337
Member since 2008 • 2603 Posts

Yes that is the future of pc graphics. A bunch of benchmarks for video cards that game companies don't care about.

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deactivated-5cf4b2c19c4ab

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#55 deactivated-5cf4b2c19c4ab
Member since 2008 • 17476 Posts

Truth hurts doesn't it?

BTW I don't see any pc games that look like the last 3DMark demo.

dc337

shattered horizon runs on the Vantage engine.

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dakan45

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#56 dakan45
Member since 2009 • 18819 Posts
[QUOTE="dakan45"]Meh i was not impressed.Mystic-G
Honestly I wasn't much impressed of the underwater benchmark either. They didn't have much going on besides close-ups of that stuff. I much like the Ugine Heaven benchmark.

Yeah, i just did not see anything impressive apart from how good can sufraces look underwater.....and thats it, nothing else.
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painguy1

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#57 painguy1
Member since 2007 • 8686 Posts

Too be honest im not impressed. I know its a work in progress, but its better to not show anything at all if its not going to look that great.

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windsquid9000

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#58 windsquid9000
Member since 2009 • 3206 Posts

[QUOTE="dc337"]

Truth hurts doesn't it?

BTW I don't see any pc games that look like the last 3DMark demo.

ferret-gamer

shattered horizon runs on the Vantage engine.

click to zoom

Lighting, shadows, and shaders are some of the best seen in any game :)

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Mystic-G

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#59 Mystic-G
Member since 2006 • 6462 Posts

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"] Honestly I wasn't much impressed of the underwater benchmark either. They didn't have much going on besides close-ups of that stuff. I much like the Ugine Heaven benchmark. dakan45
Yeah, i just did not see anything impressive apart from how good can sufraces look underwater.....and thats it, nothing else.

I think they didn't put much effort in it... they could've done better shots of a sunken ship, maybe even underwater life, sand, stuff inside the ship, etc.

Truth hurts doesn't it?

BTW I don't see any pc games that look like the last 3DMark demo.dc337

You do realize DX11 is not even a year old right? I can pull up early DX9 benchmarks that look like crap compared to today's DX9 games if you want.

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devious742

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#60 devious742
Member since 2003 • 3924 Posts

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"][QUOTE="dakan45"]Meh i was not impressed.dakan45
Honestly I wasn't much impressed of the underwater benchmark either. They didn't have much going on besides close-ups of that stuff. I much like the Ugine Heaven benchmark.

Yeah, i just did not see anything impressive apart from how good can sufraces look underwater.....and thats it, nothing else.

that was actually the point of the demo.. Tessellation..

DirectX 11 Tessellation

DirectX 11 Tessellation—what it is and why it matters

With the recent buzz around DirectX 11, you've probably heard a lot about one of its biggest new features: tessellation. As a concept, tessellation is fairly straight forward—you take a polygon and dice it into smaller pieces. But why is this a big deal? And how does it benefit games? In this article, we'll take a look at why tessellation is bringing profound changes to 3D graphics on the PC, and how the NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 400 series GPUs provide breakthrough tessellation performance.

In its most basic form, tessellation is a method of breaking down polygons into finer pieces. For example, if you take a square and cut it across its diagonal, you've "tessellated" this square into two triangles. By itself, tessellation does little to improve realism. For example, in a game, it doesn't really matter if a square is rendered as two triangles or two thousand triangles—tessellation only improves realism if the new triangles are put to use in depicting new information.

Triangle MappingDisplacement Mapping When a displacement map (left) is applied to a flat surface, the resulting surface (right) expresses the height information encoded in the displacement map.

The simplest and most popular way of putting the new triangles to use is a technique called displacement mapping. A displacement map is a texture that stores height information. When applied to a surface, it allows vertices on the surface to be shifted up or down based on the height information. For example, the graphics artist can take a slab of marble and shift the vertices to form a carving. Another popular technique is to apply displacement maps over terrain to carve out craters, canyons, and peaks.

Like tessellation, displacement mapping has been around for a long time, but until recently, it has never really caught on. The reason is that for displacement mapping to be effective, the surface must be made up of a large number of vertices. To take the example of the marble carving—if the marble block were made up of eight vertices, no amount of relative displacement between them can produce the relief of a dragon. A detailed relief can be formed only if there are sufficient vertices in the base mesh to depict the new shape. In essence—displacement mapping needs tessellation, and vice versa.

With DirectX 11, tessellation and displacement mapping finally come together in a happy union, and already, developers on jumping on board. Popular games like Alien vs. Predator and Metro 2033 use tessellation to produce smooth-looking models, and developers at Valve and id Software have done promising work on applying these techniques to their existing game characters.

Coarse  Model After a coarse model (left) goes through tessellation, a smooth model is produced (middle). When displacement mapping is applied (right), characters approach film-like realism. © Kenneth Scott, id Software 2008

Because the DirectX 11 tessellation pipeline is programmable, it can be used to solve a large number of graphics problems. Let's look at four examples.

Perfect Bump Mapping

Model Comparision

At its most basic, displacement mapping can be used as a drop-in replacement for existing bump mapping techniques. Current techniques such as normal mapping create the illusion of bumpy surfaces through better pixel shading. All these techniques work only in particular cases, and are only partially convincing when they do work. Take the case of parallax occlusion mapping, a very advanced form of bump mapping. Though it produces the illusion of overlapping geometry, it only works on flat surfaces and only in the interior of the object (see image above). True displacement mapping has none of these problems and produces accurate results from all viewing angles.

Smoother Characters

Smoothing Character PN-Triangles enable automatic smoothing of characters without artist input. Both geometry and lighting realism is improved.

The other natural partner to tessellation is refinement algorithms. A refinement algorithm takes a coarse model, and with the help of tessellation, creates a smoother looking model. A popular example is PN-Triangles (also known as N-patches). The PN-Triangles algorithm converts low resolution models into curved surfaces which are then redrawn as a mesh of finely tessellated triangles. Much of the visual artifacts that we take for granted in today's games—blocky character joints, polygonal looking car wheels, and coarse facial features, can be eliminated with the help of such algorithms. For example, PN-Triangles is used in Stalker: Call of Pripyat to produce smoother, more organic looking characters.

Seamless Level of Detail

In games with large, open environments you have probably noticed distant objects often pop in and out of existence. This is due to the game engine switching between different levels of detail, or LOD, to keep the geometric workload in check. Up until this point, there has been no easy way to vary the level of detail continuously since it would require keeping many versions of the same model or environment. Dynamic tessellation solves this problem by varying the level of detail on the fly. For example, when a distant building first comes into view, it may be rendered with only ten triangles. As you move closer, its prominent features emerge and extra triangles are used to outline details such as its window and roof. When you finally reach the door, a thousand triangles are devoted to rendering the antique brass handle alone, where each groove is carved out meticulously with displacement mapping. With dynamic tessellation, object popping is eliminated, and game environments can scale to near limitless geometric detail.

Scalable Artwork

For developers, tessellation greatly improves the efficiency of their content creation pipeline. In describing their motivation for using tessellation, Jason Mitchell of Valve says: "We are interested in the ability to author assets which allow us to scale both up and down. That is, we want to build a model once and be able to scale it up to film quality…Conversely, we want to be able to naturally scale the quality of an asset down to meet the needs of real-time rendering on a given system." This ability to create a model once and use it across various platforms means shorter development times, and for the PC gamer, the highest possible image quality on their GPU.

How GeForce GTX 400 GPUs handle Tessellation

Traditional GPU designs use a single geometry engine to perform tessellation. This approach is analogous to early GPU designs which used a single pixel pipeline to perform pixel shading. Seeing how pixel pipelines grew from a single unit to many parallel units and how it gained dominance in 3D realism, we designed our tessellation architecture to be parallel from the very beginning.

GeForce GTX 400 GPUs are built with up to fifteen tessellation units, each with dedicated hardware for vertex fetch, tessellation, and coordinate transformations. They operate with four parallel raster engines which transform newly tessellated triangles into a fine stream of pixels for shading. The result is a breakthrough in tessellation performance—over 1.6 billion triangles per second in sustained performance. Compared to the fastest competing product, the GeForce GTX 480 is up to 7.8x faster as measured by the independent website Bjorn3D.

Conclusion

After many years of trial and error, tessellation has finally come to fruition on the PC. Stunning games like Metro 2033 already show the potential of tessellation. In time, tessellation will become as crucial and indispensible as pixel shading. Realizing its importance, NVIDIA has jump started the process by building a parallel tessellation architecture from the get go. The result is the GeForce GTX 400 family of GPUs—a true breakthrough in geometric realism and tessellation performance.

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flashn00b

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#61 flashn00b
Member since 2006 • 3961 Posts

I'm more concerned about the future of PC GAMING. Sure, it will have the best graphics, but we already know the priorities of the best game developers around.

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I_are_freak

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#62 I_are_freak
Member since 2010 • 44 Posts

i know its been said before, but i think we have reached photo realic graphics

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erglesmergle

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#63 erglesmergle
Member since 2009 • 1769 Posts

LOL advertising to the max. How much did MSI pay them?

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Mystic-G

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#64 Mystic-G
Member since 2006 • 6462 Posts

i know its been said before, but i think we have reached photo realic graphics

I_are_freak
I wouldn't blow that whistle just yet, but as long as Microsoft sticks with DX11 like they did DX9 then I think we'll get there with this one. If they keep changing it too often they just fragment the market and the full use of it never comes to light. The gotta give it time for people to migrate.
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General_X

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#65 General_X
Member since 2003 • 9137 Posts
[QUOTE="I_are_freak"]

i know its been said before, but i think we have reached photo realic graphics

Mystic-G
I wouldn't blow that whistle just yet, but as long as Microsoft sticks with DX11 like they did DX9 then I think we'll get there with this one. If they keep changing it too often they just fragment the market and the full use of it never comes to light. The gotta give it time for people to migrate.

Well here's hoping. Windows 7 seems to be doing very well so the OS won't be the problem. Now we just have to wait for ATi/Nvidia to come out with GPU's that are able to run the advanced DX11 features at acceptable rates.
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AdjacentLives

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#66 AdjacentLives
Member since 2009 • 1173 Posts

[QUOTE="successful19"]

impressive, verry nice graphics but i'll be surprised if pc gaming still be popular/still around in say.....5-6 more years

consoles are being focused on more and more everyday

entropyecho

So basically, PC gaming is dying?

Let's say, hypothetically, Microsoft allows keyboard and mouse support for all games in their next console, and online is free. Imagine what would happen if a company like Blizzard made the move to expand WoW or a their new mmo onto a console ?

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Mystic-G

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#67 Mystic-G
Member since 2006 • 6462 Posts
[QUOTE="Mystic-G"][QUOTE="I_are_freak"]

i know its been said before, but i think we have reached photo realic graphics

General_X
I wouldn't blow that whistle just yet, but as long as Microsoft sticks with DX11 like they did DX9 then I think we'll get there with this one. If they keep changing it too often they just fragment the market and the full use of it never comes to light. The gotta give it time for people to migrate.

Well here's hoping. Windows 7 seems to be doing very well so the OS won't be the problem. Now we just have to wait for ATi/Nvidia to come out with GPU's that are able to run the advanced DX11 features at acceptable rates.

Well I wouldn't worry too much about that last part. It's a combination of it maturing in terms of DX11 revisions, game software coding, and how much performance the cards have. But the cards will get stronger over time anyway, it doesn't seem to be slowing down any.
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br0kenrabbit

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#68 br0kenrabbit
Member since 2004 • 18126 Posts

umm.... since when? there are only bubbles where there is some sort of gas.. movement doesn't create gas. I've been underwater quite a few times, and i don't recall ever seeing any random bubblesSword-Demon

Fast movement through water does indeed create bubbles of gas, it's called cavitation. However, these bubbles don't float to the surface, as you can see in the video.

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Phazevariance

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#69 Phazevariance
Member since 2003 • 12356 Posts
[QUOTE="killa4lyfe"]

3DMARK11 - Deep Sea

:o PC GAMING FTW?:oops:

All I can say is DAYYMMMMM! Looks amazing.

Once again sorry if old.

Really though, it stress tests your video card, but games will never look like the top notch cutting edge until 5 years later. If you look at the 2005 version, games today are only just reaching that level of detail, which back then was killer, but now is regular, even still games (on consoles) have to use tricks to allow full graphics with smooth frame rates. PC games just don't take full advantage of the hardware's capabilities mainly because of the massive variety of computers out there that do not have top of the line cards. But, it would be nice...
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DragonfireXZ95

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#70 DragonfireXZ95
Member since 2005 • 26716 Posts

I'm still impressed with this one....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HWZKGZcKoA&hd=1

Mystic-G

Wow, downloading now!

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abuabed

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#71 abuabed
Member since 2005 • 6606 Posts
Beautifully done.
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rogerjak

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#72 rogerjak
Member since 2004 • 14950 Posts

Meh. Textures and lightning were HAWT but the complete lack of any details (bubbles, floating masses, FISH? and everything else that gives you the impression you are under the sea) ruins the tech demo a bit. The subs are just there, floating in a gigantic blue void.

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Barbariser

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#73 Barbariser
Member since 2009 • 6785 Posts

Yes, that looks quite amazing, but I'm more interested in how future PC developers are going to refine their gameplay edge over consoles. Right now PC games are already much more entertaining than console games for the basic reason that they're considerably more sophisticated, but I've heard that once we switch over to 64-bit you're going to see a lot of things which could make the modern PC game ten times better.

Also, you're not going to reach that level of graphical fidelity for full video games 'til maybe half a decade or half a dozen years from now.

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cobrax25

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#74 cobrax25
Member since 2006 • 9649 Posts

Yes, that looks quite amazing, but I'm more interested in how future PC developers are going to refine their gameplay edge over consoles. Right now PC games are already much more entertaining than console games for the basic reason that they're considerably more sophisticated, but I've heard that once we switch over to 64-bit you're going to see a lot of things which could make the modern PC game ten times better.

Also, you're not going to reach that level of graphical fidelity for full video games 'til maybe half a decade or half a dozen years from now.

Barbariser

There really isnt much that 64-bit should change. As far as I know, the only thing 32-bit was holding us back in was the maximum amount of memory we could use, which was like 3 or 4 gigs.

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imprezawrx500

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#75 imprezawrx500
Member since 2004 • 19187 Posts
bla bla, we are still yet to see stuff at the level of the geforce 5 series tech demo.
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imprezawrx500

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#76 imprezawrx500
Member since 2004 • 19187 Posts

[QUOTE="entropyecho"]

[QUOTE="successful19"]

impressive, verry nice graphics but i'll be surprised if pc gaming still be popular/still around in say.....5-6 more years

consoles are being focused on more and more everyday

successful19

So basically, PC gaming is dying?

rpg's,simulations,stratergy - no, pc will always have them and be better at them

everything other game type-definately, no doubt

yet pretty much all consoles games that last gen would have been console only are now on pc. point being? all that has happened is everything is multiplat.
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imprezawrx500

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#77 imprezawrx500
Member since 2004 • 19187 Posts

[QUOTE="Barbariser"]

Yes, that looks quite amazing, but I'm more interested in how future PC developers are going to refine their gameplay edge over consoles. Right now PC games are already much more entertaining than console games for the basic reason that they're considerably more sophisticated, but I've heard that once we switch over to 64-bit you're going to see a lot of things which could make the modern PC game ten times better.

Also, you're not going to reach that level of graphical fidelity for full video games 'til maybe half a decade or half a dozen years from now.

cobrax25

There really isnt much that 64-bit should change. As far as I know, the only thing 32-bit was holding us back in was the maximum amount of memory we could use, which was like 3 or 4 gigs.

64bit can address twice as much in the same time. This means the rendering benefits the 64bit maya has over 32bit could also be used to give games a big jump, but dam ms wont kill the 32bit os so there are still far to many people with 32bit oses for game devs to really take full advantage.
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Truth_Hurts_U

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#78 Truth_Hurts_U
Member since 2006 • 9703 Posts

And this makes me wounder even more... Why no one wants a new console.

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Mckenna1845

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#79 Mckenna1845
Member since 2005 • 4410 Posts
this will cost far too much to develop into a real game, especially if you want that much detail. it will take years to develop, and a huge dev team to complete. i'm interested to see what direction devs take, because continually increasing dev costs, while selling the same amount of games is not good business.
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gamewhat

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#80 gamewhat
Member since 2007 • 926 Posts

If PC games look like that then Crysis is dethroned!

mitu123

Crysis has been dethroned for quite a while by the legendary Uncharted 2 (J/K). Seriously though shattered horizon has it beat. In fact that video reminded me of what shattered horizon would look if it were in the sea. Would look that good. The video is old because there are some games, even though few and far that actually look as good as the tech demo.

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noodlevixen

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#81 noodlevixen
Member since 2010 • 480 Posts

And this makes me wounder even more... Why no one wants a new console.

Truth_Hurts_U

We don't want one because....well just because! Big meany:cry::P

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cobrax25

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#82 cobrax25
Member since 2006 • 9649 Posts

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

If PC games look like that then Crysis is dethroned!

gamewhat

Crysis has been dethroned for quite a while by the legendary Uncharted 2 (J/K). Seriously though shattered horizon has it beat. In fact that video reminded me of what shattered horizon would look if it were in the sea. Would look that good. The video is old because there are some games, even though few and far that actually look as good as the tech demo.

considering their made by the same people, thats not surprising.

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Hahadouken

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#83 Hahadouken
Member since 2009 • 5546 Posts
I really can't say this blows me away, especially since it's a tech demo.

[QUOTE="successful19"]

impressive, verry nice graphics but i'll be surprised if pc gaming still be popular/still around in say.....5-6 more years

consoles are being focused on more and more everyday

entropyecho

So basically, PC gaming is dying?

"Dying" is a stretch, but you can already see the evidence of PC gaming being marginalized. More and more games are going to use consoles as their lead plat and upscale the PC version, a la Crysis 2, or scrap the PC version entirely like Alan Wake. Even your trusted "PC devs" are going to want more and more of that pie. It's less susceptible to piracy and working on unified architecture is easier. What he says is accurate, console gaming is being focused on more every day. It doesn't mean PC gamers need to go on the defensive and damage control it, it's just what it is... $$$ talks.
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gamewhat

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#84 gamewhat
Member since 2007 • 926 Posts

[QUOTE="Easyle"][QUOTE="Snagal123"]

Why should there be bubbles? Propellers don't always produce bubbles and i don't see anyone breathing or anyleaking oxygen or other gas. Bubbles have to have a reason for being there, if theres nothing to produce them putting them in for no reason isin't going to be realistic.

Sword-Demon

When you move through the water, some sort of stream or bubbles are created.

umm.... since when? there are only bubbles where there is some sort of gas.. movement doesn't create gas. I've been underwater quite a few times, and i don't recall ever seeing any random bubbles

Actually those propellers are setting up high and low pressures. So with enough of that you could in theory turn water into gas (like steam), but I doubt it. Shouldn't be any reason to have one create that much energy.

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Pixel-Pirate

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#85 Pixel-Pirate
Member since 2009 • 10771 Posts

Graphics have got to the point that I really never see a difference anymore.

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dc337

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#86 dc337
Member since 2008 • 2603 Posts

[QUOTE="dc337"]

Truth hurts doesn't it?

BTW I don't see any pc games that look like the last 3DMark demo.

ferret-gamer

shattered horizon runs on the Vantage engine.

Oh give me a break it's a $20 tech demo from the same company that provided the benchmark. Mainstream developers don't care about the latest in pc gaming tech. This is why the latest Directx 11 cards are a joke. Very few pc games require even DirectX 10.

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gamewhat

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#87 gamewhat
Member since 2007 • 926 Posts

[QUOTE="gamewhat"]

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

If PC games look like that then Crysis is dethroned!

cobrax25

Crysis has been dethroned for quite a while by the legendary Uncharted 2 (J/K). Seriously though shattered horizon has it beat. In fact that video reminded me of what shattered horizon would look if it were in the sea. Would look that good. The video is old because there are some games, even though few and far that actually look as good as the tech demo.

considering their made by the same people, thats not surprising.

I didn't know that. I was wondering why the tech demo looked so familiar. If people are drooling over the tech demo I guess I would highly suggest shattered horizon. Considering you stay alive long enough to enjoy the scenery.

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devious742

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#88 devious742
Member since 2003 • 3924 Posts

[QUOTE="ferret-gamer"]

[QUOTE="dc337"]

Truth hurts doesn't it?

BTW I don't see any pc games that look like the last 3DMark demo.

dc337

shattered horizon runs on the Vantage engine.

Oh give me a break it's a $20 tech demo from the same company that provided the benchmark. Mainstream developers don't care about the latest in pc gaming tech. This is why the latest Directx 11 cards are a joke. Very few pc games require even DirectX 10.

Games that support DX11

AvP

BFBC2

Stalker CoP

Dirt 2

Upcoming games with DX11

Battlefield 1943

Civilization V

Crysis 2

Dungeons and Dragons Online

F1 2010

The Lord of the Rings Online

Race Driver: Grid 2

Games that support DX10

Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures

Aliens vs. Predator

Alliance of Valiant Arms

Anno 1404

Assassin's Creed

BattleForge

Battlefield: Bad Company 2

BioShock

BioShock 2

Blue Mars

Call of Juarez

Company of Heroes

Cryostasis: Sleep of Reason

Crysis

Crysis Warhead

Devil May Cry 4

Dungeons & Dragons Online: Stormreach

Entropia Universe

Eve Online

Far Cry 2

Frontlines: Fuel of War

Flight Simulator X

Gears of War

Hellgate: London

James Cameron's Avatar: The Game

Just Cause 2

Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar

Lost Planet: Extreme Condition

Merchants of Brooklyn

Metro 2033

Necrovision

Red Faction: Guerrilla

Resident Evil 5

Rise of the Argonauts

Shadowrun

Shattered Horizon

S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Clear Sky

S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call of Pripyat

Stargate Worlds

Stormrise

Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X.

Universe at War: Earth Assault

Unreal Tournament 3

Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II

World in Conflict

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW Shattered Horizon isnt a "tech Demo" It received a 7.5

Shattered Horizon Review

Zero-gravity combat and some interesting twists make Shattered Horizon a unique, if somewhat limited, multiplayer shooter.

The Good

  • Unique space setting and easy-to-use controls
  • Features like zero gravity and stealth add depth to combat
  • Atmospheric outer space visuals.

The Bad

  • Demanding system requirements that include Windows 7 or Vista
  • Only four maps and three modes of play.

Since the review this game has received free updates such as Weapons and more maps for free

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devious742

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#89 devious742
Member since 2003 • 3924 Posts

:roll: also.. before you start with the whole pc gaming is dying..........

Valve: Don't Believe The US Press, PC Gaming Is Alive And Well

in an interview with Good Game that slipped under the radar, Valve's business manager, Jason Holtman, said all the talk about PC gaming dieing because of some super-game console comes from "North America press looking at North American reports". "And North America retail reports don't have Europe in them, and they don't have online PCs on them, they don't have micro-transactions PCs in it. Steam has 20 million users right now and you've got figures like the Cartner Group tells us there's 260 million online PC gamers in the world

Valve: PC Gaming Alive and Well, But Developers Off Their Game

Valve's marketing vice president and frequent spokesman, Doug Lombardi, laughed off the idea that PC gaming is dying, but said other developers need to get with the program.

"I mean, I think, we sort of laugh at it," Lombardi said of increasingly high-pitched concerns over the viability of PC gaming in an interview with Shacknews.com

"Because we've been wildly successful - we're very fortunate, you know. Our games have all done really, really well, Steam has taken off and become this whole other business for us, Valve has never been in better shape - and yet everybody is talking about how in the PC world, the sky is falling," said Lombardi.

Lombardi pointed out that the sales data often cited to buttress claims of a dying PC industry do not include MMOG subscribers, Steam users, other customers of digital download services, or even other countries.

"NPD, god love 'em, they release a U.S. retail sales report, and people take that and say that's the world picture. And it's just not true...if people were looking at WoW's subscriptions alone and factoring it in, looking at Steam sales and factoring it in...Just look at what Popcap's doing - Bejeweled and Peggle and all this stuff - they're not in that NPD data."

Lombardi also said part of the brouhaha was effective PR by console makers and the absence of anything similar on the PC front.

"It is absolutely a perception problem. I mean one of the things that happens is - Microsoft has an army of PR people that work for Microsoft. They have at least two agencies that are additional armies. Nintendo I'm not as familiar with their PR outline, but I'm sure it's similar. Sony is similar. The PC has nobody," he said.

At the same time, Lombardi blasted developers for not taking accurate stock of what computers gamers have, and for aiming only at the high-end. He contrasted this with his own company, which conducts surveys twice a year to gauge the horsepower of gamers' computers.

"You know, it's hard to be able to have games that scale, and to write performance on the high end, and write performance on the bottom end, but you know, winning in any industry means some hard work, and there's a certain level of hard work that developers have to take responsibility for," he observed.

BioWare: PC gaming is in fine health

More PC players and more money being generated "than ever before"


The CEO of BioWare has told us that, contrary to numerous 'PC gaming is dying' claims, the sector's in fine health on a number of fronts.


I think there are more people playing PC games and more dollars being spent on the PC space than ever before, but it's taking a different form," Ray Muzyka said in a recent interview.


Developer Stardock Says Piracy Isn't Killing PC Gaming


There have been a lot of recent talks about the decline of PC gaming. Development studios are closing down, and companies are analysing the woes of the industry. One publisher, however, thinks it naïve to blame piracy for the decline of PC gaming sales. Stardock's latest, a space-based real-time strategy game called Sins of a Solar Empire, has sold roughly 200,000 copies since its release last month. So how has Stardock achieved success?

According to Brad Wardell, president and CEO of Stardock, (via the Sins of a Solar Empire forum) piracy is an issue, but he doesn't think it should be used as a scapegoat when a game doesn't sell. Wardwell states that there is a problem with the way that game developers currently look at the PC install base. "When you develop for a market, you don't go by the user base. You go by the potential customer base. That's what most software companies do. They base what they want to create on the size of the market they're developing for. But not PC game developers. PC game developers seem to focus more on the 'cool' factor. What game can they make that will get them glory with the game magazines and gaming websites and hard core gamers? These days, it seems like game developers want to be like rock stars more than businessmen," Wardell wrote.

Rather than trying to craft a game to get the most media coverage, Wardell approaches the situation from a financial point of view. "When I make a game, I focus on making games that I think will be the most profitable… when it comes time to make a game, I don't have a hard time thinking of a game I'd like to play. The hard part is coming up with a game that we can actually make that will be profitable. And that means looking at the market as a business not about trying to be 'cool'."

Following this approach, Wardell cites Sins of a Solar Empire's success. The game has received great critical praise, in addition to having sold nearly 200,000 copies in its first month; an amazing feat for a comparatively small budgeted title. Wardell cites the lack of copy protection on Sins of a Solar Empire as one of the myth busters to piracy killing PC gaming.

Study: PC Software Sales Up 3% To $13.1 Billion In 2009


The PC Gaming Alliance (PCGA), a non-profit PC gaming advocacy group, revealed a new research study indicating that PC gaming software revenues worldwide reached $13.1 billion in 2009, a 3 percent increase over the previous year.

That increase came in spite of decreased retail boxed sales for PC games, which suffered the "biggest downturn" out of all the sales categories PCGA tracked and now accounts for less than 20 percent of total software revenue for the year.

Digital distribution growth also largely offset losses in other PC gaming software categories. In its surveys of PC gamers in North America and Europe, the report found that 70 percent of respondents have purchased a full game online.

"The most notable trend in recent years has been the movement to digital distribution and payment for subscriptions, and the growing popularity with consumers of online games as a service," says PCGA president and Intel director Randy Stude.


Tales of PC gaming's death have been greatly exaggerated

The "death of PC gaming" has become reliable column and blog fodder for tech journalists. Perhaps it stems from lingering bitterness over time wasted editing Warcraft batch files in DOS 6.0. Regardless, you shouldn't take the idea seriously.

To prove it, we won't even lean on that most tempting pillar of PC gaming, the 12 million-strong World of Warcraft monthly subscription-paying player base. Instead we'll point to a report by Rock, Paper, Shotgun's Kieron Gillen from Britain's Develop 09 conference, specifically from a presentation on digital distribution.

Chart Track also estimated that digital distribution makes up 22 percent of the $13 billion global PC market, which boils down to $2.86 billion. If global digital distribution sales follow the same growth pattern that Chart Track projects for Steam for 2009, worldwide digital game sales will climb by $2.23 billion. That brings the global digital from from $2.86 billion in 2008 to almost $5.1 billion for 2009.

Now let's look at retail, in this case we'll use NPD's $701 million in U.S retail sales. Globally, Chart Track says PC retail sales represent 24 percent of the $13 billion pie, or $3.12 billion. That means NPD's $701 million figure represents approximately 23 percent of the worldwide retail market in 2008.

To recap our estimates for 2009:

* Global retail PC game sales: $2.37 billion (23% decrease)
* Global digital PC game sales: $5.09 billion (78% increase)
* Global in-game PC ad sales: $1.32 billion (26.8% increase)
* Global subscription and microtransactions: >$5.98 billion (unknown % increase)
* Total 2009 global PC game sales: $14.76 billion-plus (minimum 13.5% increase)

Blizzard: PC gaming is not dying out, BlizzCon proves it

In an interview with Gamasutra, Kevin Martens, Blizzard Lead Content Designer, revealed his opinion on the "PC gaming is dead" mentality that has been of much discussion lately. Martens feels that Blizzard counteracts this best by keeping system requirements low while making sure its games are still marketable.

"The death knell of PC has risen and fallen over the years, and we keep releasing PC games, and they keep doing incredibly well," said Martens. "I think that there is a market out there for PC games. The latest consoles are great; it's easy to get the game running and all that. They're useful.

"But everyone has a PC, and we try to keep our system requirements down as low as possible. That's one of the ways that we can make sure to appeal to enough people. Some of the really cutting edge games that come out for PC require a brand new video card and probably more RAM at least, if not a new CPU as well. That's really rare with Blizzard games. I think that's one of the reasons we still keep doing well.

"The best evidence that the PC market is not actually dying is the 20,000 people that showed up this year at Blizzcon, and the fact that those tickets sold out in one minute flat.

"That doesn't seem to me, that it's really good evidence, of a platform with a problem."


Sega: PC sales are stronger than reported

Growing digital sales mean that the charts don't tell the full PC games story

Publishing giant Sega has defended PC gaming, calling it a strong and vital market for the games industry.

Physical retail sales of PC games are continuing to slide in 2010, but Sega's UK MD John Clark says that isn't a fair representation of the market – with digital sales now accounting for a large proportion of revenue.

"The PC market is third in terms of its year-on-year performance with a decline of 26 per cent, but this doesn't really reflect the full picture," said Clark.

"The PC digital download business is now a viable sector but somewhat invisible as it's not yet covered by Chart-Track. The PC market overall is actually performing much better than is currently reported and remains a vital and strong sector to be involved in."

Sega was the second biggest UK PC publisher in 2009, with 12 per cent share of the market.

Meanwhile, year-to-date in 2010 the company has a 12.8 per cent share of the PC games sector. This was boosted by the strong performance last month of Aliens vs Predator, Napoleon: Total War, as well as continued sales of Football Manager 2010.

"Last month's PC chart illustrates Sega's position within this sector," added Clark.

"Napoleon: Total War, Football Manager 2010 and Aliens vs Predator are three different **** of game from three different genres. They can all drive a strong, community fan base with the ability to consistently deliver endless hours of gameplay. Incidentally, they are all developed in the UK.

"For 2009, Sega was ranked the second biggest PC publisher in the market. In 2010 year-to-date, we are once again ranked second. Long may it continue."

PC receives high-profile backing from EA

Whilst High Street sales of PC software can paint a picture of decline, the un-monitored online revenues coming from the format are drastically increasing – a fact that helped EA enjoy a strong performance on the format last year.

VG247 points out that EA released 32 PC games in its last fiscal year – far ahead of Xbox 360 (26), PS3 (23), DS (22), Wii (21), PS2 (14), PSP (8) and Xbox (1).

Revenues from EA's digital services hit $429m – up 27 per cent compared to the same period the year before.

"This is a big year for us [on PC]," said EA CFO Eric Brown. "The online part of our business is growing as much as 60 percent year over year.

"In terms of distribution, the way we look at a lot what's happening in the future is, we've got probably a billion PCs out there in the world. Very rapidly the PC is becoming the largest gaming platform in the world, just not in a packaged-good product."

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ManicAce

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#90 ManicAce
Member since 2009 • 3267 Posts
I love good graphics, and I love PC gaming. But for me the graphics side of things has lost its charm somewhat, not enough devs push the envelope and take advantage of the latest technology for it to matter anymore. No, it's not because of "PC gaming dying", it's the consequence of the market growing, to compete you need to cater to the lowest common denominator and that's gonna hold us back for a long time to come.
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Mystic-G

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#91 Mystic-G
Member since 2006 • 6462 Posts

[QUOTE="ferret-gamer"]

[QUOTE="dc337"]

Truth hurts doesn't it?

BTW I don't see any pc games that look like the last 3DMark demo.

dc337

shattered horizon runs on the Vantage engine.

Oh give me a break it's a $20 tech demo from the same company that provided the benchmark. Mainstream developers don't care about the latest in pc gaming tech. This is why the latest Directx 11 cards are a joke. Very few pc games require even DirectX 10.

Because Microsoft had soon come out with DX10.1 which fragmented the video cards then only ATi supported it. Not to mention Vista was considering a huge failure in terms of user acceptance which you could only use DX10 on. Windows 7 outsold Vista very quickly so it's considered success. Both Windows 7 and Vista are DX11 capable and both ATi and Nvidia support it to the fullest. Tessellation will be what brings PC gaming to the new age, you can believe that.

Oh and if you're running on some pro-console/anti-pc campaign, just know that if PC gaming can't do it then neither will consoles. ;)

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yoshi_64

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#92 yoshi_64
Member since 2003 • 25261 Posts
It was ok. Aside from lighting and texture, the demo could have used more. I've never seen such a clear view of underwater exploration (based off various Discovery/National Geo videos, of course I've never been under... but Planet Earth is all I need :P )
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Mystic-G

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#93 Mystic-G
Member since 2006 • 6462 Posts

It was ok. Aside from lighting and texture, the demo could have used more. I've never seen such a clear view of underwater exploration (based off various Discovery/National Geo videos, of course I've never been under... but Planet Earth is all I need :P ) yoshi_64
Here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HWZKGZcKoA&hd=1

Enjoy. :P

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dc337

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#94 dc337
Member since 2008 • 2603 Posts

[QUOTE="dc337"]

[QUOTE="ferret-gamer"] shattered horizon runs on the Vantage engine.

Mystic-G

Oh give me a break it's a $20 tech demo from the same company that provided the benchmark. Mainstream developers don't care about the latest in pc gaming tech. This is why the latest Directx 11 cards are a joke. Very few pc games require even DirectX 10.

Because Microsoft had soon come out with DX10.1 which fragmented the video cards then only ATi supported it. Not to mention Vista was considering a huge failure in terms of user acceptance which you could only use DX10 on. Windows 7 outsold Vista very quickly so as a considered success this time. Both Windows 7 and Vista are DX11 capable and both ATi and Nvidia support it. Tessellation will be what brings PC gaming to the new age, you can believe that.



Only 3.29% of Steam users have a DirectX11 card:
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

Oh and to the obnoxious orange wall of text guy, maybe you didn't see this in the GS review: A handful of maps and no single-player option make this something of an ambitious tech demo, but the price is just $20

A few pc games can make use of DirectX11 but the vast majority are built around DirectX9. It will be years before most games require DirectX10.

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Mystic-G

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#95 Mystic-G
Member since 2006 • 6462 Posts

Only 3.29% of Steam users have a DirectX11 card:
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

Oh and to the obnoxious orange wall of text guy, maybe you didn't see this in the GS review: A handful of maps and no single-player option make this something of an ambitious tech demo, but the price is just $20

A few pc games can make use of DirectX11 but the vast majority are built around DirectX9. It will be years before most games require DirectX10.

dc337

Wow... 3.29% ??? Only 7 months since DX11's release with only ATi support and only 2 months in with Nvidia support. If you ask me, for cards that expensive 3.29% is quite a lot, quite fast.

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Fizzman

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#96 Fizzman
Member since 2003 • 9895 Posts

The Cell is better and UC2 looks better then that...............

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mitu123

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#97 mitu123
Member since 2006 • 155290 Posts

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

If PC games look like that then Crysis is dethroned!

gamewhat

Crysis has been dethroned for quite a while by the legendary Uncharted 2 (J/K). Seriously though shattered horizon has it beat. In fact that video reminded me of what shattered horizon would look if it were in the sea. Would look that good. The video is old because there are some games, even though few and far that actually look as good as the tech demo.

Why don't most people say it looks better than Crysis?

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lundy86_4

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#98 lundy86_4
Member since 2003 • 62044 Posts

[QUOTE="dc337"]

Only 3.29% of Steam users have a DirectX11 card:
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

Oh and to the obnoxious orange wall of text guy, maybe you didn't see this in the GS review: A handful of maps and no single-player option make this something of an ambitious tech demo, but the price is just $20

A few pc games can make use of DirectX11 but the vast majority are built around DirectX9. It will be years before most games require DirectX10.

Mystic-G

Wow... 3.29% ??? Only 7 months since DX11's release with only ATi support and only 2 months in with Nvidia support. If you ask me, for cards that expensive 3.29% is quite a lot, quite fast.

Yup, not too bad, considering not every PC gamer uses Steam, and that 3.29% works out to roughly 72,000 people.

DX11 will become more popular due to its ability to scale back to DX10, 10.1 and 9.0 cards, without having to be individually written for the different DirectX versions.