The Motion Movement...are we ready?

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Jynxzor

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#1 Jynxzor
Member since 2003 • 9313 Posts

Good evening System Wars today I felt like injecting a bit of awesome into the forums today in the form of a good debate thread.

Now we all know that the generation of motion controls is now here...*Even if it's not even a new generation of consoles" The Wii has flashed a giant red panic light in the competitors offices, in response both have pushed to create *or at least push ahead* there own movement oriented peripherals and experiences. The three giants have 3 totally different ways about going about the world of motion controls, lets have a look at the 3 ideologies shall we?

Nintendo: Wii did it first!"Fully integrated 100%"

Nintendo is the first to bring motion controls to the market, and the sole reason we see all 3 big guns jumping into the motion controller race. Fact is without Nintendo flaring interest it is highly unlikely that we would see motion controls until at least the next generation, Kinect and Move would be a mere afterthought of MS and Sony's R&D departments. The question for Ninetndo is why go motion controls in the first place?

Nintendo was generally reeling from it's failure the past two generations, profits were down and many whispers were abound that Nintendo might be going the way of Sega as it had no other way to recoup it's losses than risk another Console release that arguably all but the most loyal would touch with a 10 foot poll! Then Nintendo brought the Nintendo DS to the field, this gaming monster still dominates all markets today and shrugs off any competitors with it's massive foothold and firm grasp of it's loyal portable fanbase. The DS alone was what funded the Wii and was also a key player behind the reasoning of the Wii's general marketing and design. The Nintendo DS was as unconventional as could be...Touchscreen gaming? dual screens? What is this madness! But it is what brought Nintendo back from the brink of destruction and these far out ideals would carry on to it's bigger brother the Wii.

Conceptually the Wii is a weak system compared to the others, this is due to Nintendo focus ALL of it's assets on developing the Wii motion controller. When the Wii hit the market everyone was surprised at not just how well it sold, but who was buying it. Nintendo had grabbed the crowd that Sony had fought hard to get even a small piece of last generation with the PS2...the had The Casuals! Mom, Dad, Grandpa, Grandma, they may have not known how it worked but like the Furby and Elmo of years past...they had to have it.

Now that the history is out of the way, lets get to the meat and bones of it.

Nintendo for the most part has supported the motion control 100% *give or take a few games that don't support it at all* Every game you play on the wii requires the use of the motion controller, especially titles developed by Nintendo have motion controls at the core of mostly every single game created. This has garnered them a slightly bad rap with the Hardcore gamers who allowed Nintendo to survive this long to even get the Wii to be born, Nintendo has stated that they are not just focusing on the casual gamers but the hardcore as well. Hardcore titles are still few and far between for Nintendo, and developers outside of Nintendo developing anything for the hardcore gamers is even more sparse, but who can blame them many games that have tried to appeal to the gamer crowd have fallen flat on there face on the Wii. Not a single game from the top 15 best selling Wii games is not developed by Nintendo, and again even farther down there are few games that are not Nintendo branded games. Even the Wii motion+ as been genrally shunned by the developing community and seemingly Nintendo itself, the Motion+ seems like a afterthought to adress the hardcore gamers complaints but fell on deaf ears in the end.

Yet the Wii sells millions of units, and until recent years had trouble keeping the systems on the shelves of retailers worldwide, with success like this coming from a position of looming doom who can argue Nintendo has got it right? The question is will this strategy carry over to the next generation of systems or will the casual gamers who are not akin to being loyal to anything move onto the competitions shiner and higher tech offerings?

Microsoft: Hardcore...who?"Fully integrated...in the future"

Microsoft has launched the largest ad campaign for a peripheral in gaming history, with next to no regard to caring how the hardcore gamers that brought it from a dud last generation into one of the two consoles competing for hardcore gamer attention.

Kinect previously known as porject Natal has until recently been marred by bad press for being a bit overzealous yet under delivering to the press. Milo? Fake video, and stage demos where African gentlemen were asked to wear white gloves for no apparent reason? Yeah they didn't have it working well enough to read every ones hands yet, but tried to show it off anyways. Every join in the body? well...you couldn't sit down nor does it read finger gestures.

News like this painted Microsoft as a fool while developing the Kinect, and now they are pulling out all the stops to slam that bad press into a small corner while buying out huge add campaigns on banner adds, TV, Concerts, Oprah, Just Beiber, and a slew of general marketing to make it like the bad press never existed, but how is Kinect as a device?

Kinect while in infancy has generally delivered on it's technical promises, as far as testimonials claim the lag is tolerable and it reads your movements as accurately as advertised. The big flaw is that without precise movement reading such as hand gestures or more exact controls the Kinect is doomed to be for casual audiences only. Hardcore gamers don't want the inaccuracy of the human machine to be oriented into there gameplay experience in general unless it's impact is minimal at best. Can a Human aim with pinpoint accuracy as they can in CoD, Killzone, or Halo? No, even the simulated wobbliness of the hands is a tenth of what a real person would be like trying to aim an invisible gun, or even a analog of a real gun. Humans are imperfect, where as hardcore games need very tight, perfected controls. Programing for such massive variants in movements makes it a time consuming job to make sure when someone uppercuts, he is not launching a fireball instead, fighting games will be capsulized in this aspect taking out many of the challenges gamers have come to appreciate in there games.

Is it a challenge when everyone can do it? Gamers spend days/weeks/months sometimes perfecting the art of launching that spiral uppercut into a cancle knee bomb, the complete lack of controller input makes these hard to do actions impossible to program yet keep the entry level slightly above grade schooler. Kinects lack of input and variable motion inputs paints it to have little to do with the audience that mainly purchased the machine. Will Microsoft get the casuals that the Wii has? or will Microsoft somehow appeal to it's current fanbase in some way? We wont know for sure yet, but so far Microsoft doesn't seem too intent on funding many Hardcore Kinect games.

Sony: It's here if you want it."Optionally supported"

Sony has taken the same road they have with peripherals in the past, and it was a successful one with the Eyetoy, make it available, let people know about it and let nature takes it's course.

Sony is one of few companies to ever release peripherals this late in the game and see some form of success in the market, While America and Japan may not have been big fans of the Eyetoy, Europe went insane over it. Games like Singstar are Sony's bread and butter product to this day in the European countries, on release day all of Europe can be heard rocking out and singing bad Karaoke songs. Sony grabbed up a large number of casuals due to this approach in the PS2 era largely because they were uncontested, no one had a singstar game, and even this generation attempts to emulate it by Microsoft have been shoddy as best.

The Eyetoy was a massive winner, despite the fact it may be unknown in these parts it still rakes in cash for Sony. How will the PS Move fair now that they are not the first boys in the yard with the similar toy? Sony seems to be taking the exact same approach to the PS Move that they did with the Eye, it's there if you want it and sure we are going to support it...but not everything is going to need Move to function. The lack of massive advertising, and a smaller but wittier campaign clearly paint Sony as cautiously optimistic about the Moves chances to succeed.

Sony also seems keen on appealing to it's current player base when advertising the Move, it is implied that it can do more than Kinect could ever do for us...does it? What does Move bring that Nintendo failed to deliver years ago? Move has far more accuracy out of the box than the Wiimote does due to the motion+ being added on as an afterthought, HD graphics while not part of the controler add to the experience that the Wii could never offer. What does Move give us that Kinect can't? Simply put it gives us more control, while you may not need a controler for Kinect, the lack of one is a massive hinderance to the experience and using a controler as a stand in doesn't seem natural while the Move is designed to be controler you move with your body, instead of the controler being your body.

Will Sony ultimatly suceed with us gamers in pushing the Move? with there softhanded aproach with the peripheral they are dangerously on the edge of not giving the peripheral the support it needs to get it off the ground and will end up as wasted potential. While still not a precise as a standard controler, the buttons and more options give us gamers more reason to use it over Kinect and allow developers to integrate challenging scenarios that may use skill instead of blind gesturing. The Move echos many points of the Wii but it's marketing aim and improoved tech could push it to a new level, doubtfully though will it even garner half the attention the Wiimote ever would despite being superior.

Closing thoughts

So System wars where do you think the Motion Generation will take us? are we destined to have motion controler the new norm, such as dual analog has been the standard it is today? Or will gamers resist too hard and make companies revert to more familliar controlers next generation. On the flip side of the coin what if our resistance is futile, will casual gamers be keen on the two new controlers proping up the motion generation and hardcore gaming dissapear even farther into the backround of gaming culture than it has this generation allready?


Let me know your thoughts on the situation...and yes PC you can talk too, you just don't have any swanky popular motion devices I could guestimate on, other than Mind control being in THE WORLD OF TOMORROW!!!!!

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deactivated-6127ced9bcba0

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#2 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

As of right now there isn't a single Kinect or Move game that looks interesting to me. I won't be buying either for the foreseeable future.

I know quite a few people who think the way I do. I don't need flashy motion controls in order to have fun with a game. All I need is a good story, fun combat and a reason to play.

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gamebreakerz__

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#3 gamebreakerz__
Member since 2010 • 5120 Posts
I didn't read the whole thing because it is REALLY long but I understand what your saying. I believe if motion controls are done right they do have the potential to better the experience for both core and casual gamers although currently casuals are more inclined to buy meaning companies target them first. I guess we will have to wait till the end of this gen to make a final decision on the matter.
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gamer-adam1

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#4 gamer-adam1
Member since 2008 • 4188 Posts

Dance Central, best game ever

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SolidTy

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#5 SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts

I own a Wii, I don't have Move or Kinect. I also got motion plus, but that is poorly supported.

I don't like Kinect's Direction regarding software, nor do I like the limitations the technology offers...but maybe if they get some exclusive games I want, maybe one day. I already bought one CAMERA for my Xbox 360 already as well, the Xbox Vision.

I like Sony's Direction of the Move, but again, it comes to software, and I don't see anything I must play. Funny thing is, I already own the PSEye, so Move would only cost me $50 for a Wand, but again, I don't see any games I must play.

Still, I got my Wii, but I will keep my eye out.

Ironically, as it turns out 4 years after Wii Launch, most of the Wii games I've enjoyed on the Wii don't need or use much Waggle, if any at all.

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Deathtransit

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#6 Deathtransit
Member since 2007 • 3086 Posts
I think it's all gimmick. Move is just a new way to play the same games with your arms instead of a joystick, and how could you even play a good action or shooting game with Kinect? Ninja Gaiden Kinect? Don't think so.
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Deathtransit

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#7 Deathtransit
Member since 2007 • 3086 Posts
I think it's all gimmick. Move is just a new way to play the same games with your arms instead of a joystick, and how could you even play a good action or shooting game with Kinect? Ninja Gaiden Kinect? Don't think so.
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BrunoBRS

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#8 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts

i have to admit i didn't read it, but i just have to make this joke:

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww274/xTDIxIzzy/my-body-is-ready.png

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CagedOkami

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#9 CagedOkami
Member since 2010 • 370 Posts

great thread, we rarely get to see one of these. now as to your question "are we ready?" its a little late to ask now,dont ya think :P

lol need to watch my "grammer" lol

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gamebreakerz__

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#10 gamebreakerz__
Member since 2010 • 5120 Posts
I think it's all gimmick. Move is just a new way to play the same games with your arms instead of a joystick, and how could you even play a good action or shooting game with Kinect? Ninja Gaiden Kinect? Don't think so.Deathtransit
Why does a peripheral have to be able to play every genre? I dislike the kinect as much as the next person but when something brings to the table some new (crap but still new) genres it's fine if it sacrifices some others.
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BrunoBRS

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#11 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts

great thread, we rarely get to see one of these. nat as to your question "are we ready?" its a little late to ask now,dont ya think :P

CagedOkami
not really. you see, most people are still seeing motion gaming as a gimmick more than a possible future for the industry.
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J-WOW

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#12 J-WOW
Member since 2010 • 3105 Posts
I loled at the kid holding the 360 slim KINECT bundle, but man how many Kinect bundles has M$ already given out? probably like 2 million so far
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tomarlyn

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#13 tomarlyn
Member since 2005 • 20148 Posts
For me motion control has been one of the dark clouds this generation, among DLC already on the disc and single use codes. Better off without it, even optionally IMO. These companies need to pay the bills somehow though.
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Deathtransit

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#14 Deathtransit
Member since 2007 • 3086 Posts
[QUOTE="Deathtransit"]I think it's all gimmick. Move is just a new way to play the same games with your arms instead of a joystick, and how could you even play a good action or shooting game with Kinect? Ninja Gaiden Kinect? Don't think so.gamebreakerz__
Why does a peripheral have to be able to play every genre? I dislike the kinect as much as the next person but when something brings to the table some new (crap but still new) genres it's fine if it sacrifices some others.

I hope you're right and Kinect only stays at peripheral status, but if it catches on like crazy it could the next Xbox's standard. I don't think it's meant as a peripheral though, but as a replacement. MS's launch certainly seems to suggest they would make it central to Xbox.
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Deathtransit

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#15 Deathtransit
Member since 2007 • 3086 Posts
[QUOTE="Deathtransit"]I think it's all gimmick. Move is just a new way to play the same games with your arms instead of a joystick, and how could you even play a good action or shooting game with Kinect? Ninja Gaiden Kinect? Don't think so.gamebreakerz__
Why does a peripheral have to be able to play every genre? I dislike the kinect as much as the next person but when something brings to the table some new (crap but still new) genres it's fine if it sacrifices some others.

I hope you're right and Kinect only stays at peripheral status, but if it catches on like crazy it could the next Xbox's standard. I don't think it's meant as a peripheral though, but as a replacement. MS's launch certainly seems to suggest they would make it central to Xbox.
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shinrabanshou

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#16 shinrabanshou
Member since 2009 • 8458 Posts

I did read the whole thing, despite it being rather lengthy. And it was a pretty good analysis of the different approaches taken and hurdles faced, in terms of software development.

The Wii has no adoption hurdle since motion control is the system, but the weakness of the hardware, limitations of the original WiiMote and the lack of support for Motion+ has made it less appealing to the core. While the casual market has eaten it up for years.

Microsoft is going full bore at this casual market, hoping that it's control free experience will be enough of a unique selling point to drive the system into hands of consumers, coupled with a gargantuan marketing campaign.

While Sony's approach has basically been to offer an alternative control scheme for core games, while offering some casualware to try to expand the base. It is essentially a WiiHD - that is the sell to the casual market. To their traditional market it is an option that may work better for certain genres.

Digital Foundry had a nice summary that distilled it all down into a Cliffs Notes version:

What it boils down to is a choice. In our view, PlayStation Move is the most flexible, versatile motion controller for either HD console. It's patently superior to Wii and indeed the MotionPlus upgrade. But as we've seen from the launch titles, the utilisation of the wand thus far falls way short of the superb concepts Sony is dreaming up in its R&D labs.

Kinect is something different and wholly removed from Move and the Wiimote. The fact that it's ideally suited to fitness and dance titles in a way that neither of the competing systems can match may well be enough on its own to guarantee success. However, in the longer term, it's the system's basic demand for innovation from developers that may well be the making of it.

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Deathtransit

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#17 Deathtransit
Member since 2007 • 3086 Posts
I apologize for the double posts, I can't edit or delete on my browser.
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osan0

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#18 osan0
Member since 2004 • 18265 Posts
i welcome it. i dont like that old traiditional controller and the sooner its scrapped the better imho. its not like the wiimote, WM+, move or kinect are the limits of what motion controls can do. they are essentially the nes and snes pad of motion controls.
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subrosian

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#19 subrosian
Member since 2005 • 14232 Posts
Eh... I don't know if I'd call a cheap attempt to cash-in on casual gamers looking for the next cool thing to be a "movement". These interfaces aren't "the future", Nintendo is already working in a different direction for next generation (I know people are excited about 3DS, but wait until you see their next console... :D ). In any case, it's interesting to see that Sony / MS picked up on the Wii a few seasons late just as the Wii interest died off. - Curious.
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CagedOkami

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#20 CagedOkami
Member since 2010 • 370 Posts

Eh... I don't know if I'd call a cheap attempt to cash-in on casual gamers looking for the next cool thing to be a "movement". These interfaces aren't "the future", Nintendo is already working in a different direction for next generation (I know people are excited about 3DS, but wait until you see their next console... :D ). In any case, it's interesting to see that Sony / MS picked up on the Wii a few seasons late just as the Wii interest died off. - Curious.subrosian
perhaps the interest in the wii did not die off but the interest in Sony ans MS peaked ;)

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MathMattS

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#21 MathMattS
Member since 2009 • 4012 Posts

I have a Wii and a 360, and motion control has largely turned out to be a gimmick-- most Wii games I've played are regular couch-potato games that involve waving the Wii Remote or shaking it.

For the 360, I'll be holding off on Kinect until I see what sort of games are coming out for it-- so far, nothing is really impressing me. I'm hoping that Kinect doesn't turn the 360 into a casual system, since I'm hardcore.

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subrosian

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#22 subrosian
Member since 2005 • 14232 Posts

perhaps the interest in the wii did not die off but the interest in Sony ans MS peaked ;)

CagedOkami

Yeah, maybe if you're a microsoft sales rep: "we are pleased with the interest in our PRODUCT A and are excited about PRODUCT B's impact on our gaming market... furthermore we are BLAH BLAH BLAH". - In reality world it's "we're cashing in on what Nintendo was already doing".

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goblaa

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#23 goblaa
Member since 2006 • 19304 Posts

I'm a big wii fan, so I'm all for motion controls as standard. I've pretty much given up on playing any game with a standard game pad now.

That said, ANY motion control is not good motion control. I don't like the direction Kinect has taken gaming. It's pretty much useless.

But, 1:1 controls, with enough buttons to support any game, plus dual pointer control is pretty much the future of console controllers.

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BrunoBRS

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#24 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts

I'm a big wii fan, so I'm all for motion controls as standard. I've pretty much given up on playing any game with a standard game pad now.

That said, ANY motion control is not good motion control. I don't like the direction Kinect has taken gaming. It's pretty much useless.

But, 1:1 controls, with enough buttons to support any game, plus dual pointer control is pretty much the future of console controllers.

goblaa
i don't really see any use in a second pointer other than making dual wielding in shooters a pain (imagine the skill required to learn how to do it right O_o), so please give me a couple more suggestions on how this would be useful enough to be obligatory. your mech game idea doesn't count :P
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goblaa

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#25 goblaa
Member since 2006 • 19304 Posts

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

I'm a big wii fan, so I'm all for motion controls as standard. I've pretty much given up on playing any game with a standard game pad now.

That said, ANY motion control is not good motion control. I don't like the direction Kinect has taken gaming. It's pretty much useless.

But, 1:1 controls, with enough buttons to support any game, plus dual pointer control is pretty much the future of console controllers.

BrunoBRS

i don't really see any use in a second pointer other than making dual wielding in shooters a pain (imagine the skill required to learn how to do it right O_o), so please give me a couple more suggestions on how this would be useful enough to be obligatory. your mech game idea doesn't count :P

Because why not. Even if it never really get's used you should provide devs with every tool they "could" need. It sucks that some move games require two wands. If the navigation controller had a ball on it too it would make life easier. It would help with depth tracking on both hands and could be used for dual guns on rail shooters an such. Heck, there's alreay kinect games where it's tracking both your hands like pointers.

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BrunoBRS

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#26 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="goblaa"]

I'm a big wii fan, so I'm all for motion controls as standard. I've pretty much given up on playing any game with a standard game pad now.

That said, ANY motion control is not good motion control. I don't like the direction Kinect has taken gaming. It's pretty much useless.

But, 1:1 controls, with enough buttons to support any game, plus dual pointer control is pretty much the future of console controllers.

goblaa

i don't really see any use in a second pointer other than making dual wielding in shooters a pain (imagine the skill required to learn how to do it right O_o), so please give me a couple more suggestions on how this would be useful enough to be obligatory. your mech game idea doesn't count :P

Because why not. Even if it never really get's used you should provide devs with every tool they "could" need. It sucks that some move games require two wands. If the navigation controller had a ball on it too it would make life easier. It would help with depth tracking on both hands and could be used for dual guns on rail shooters an such. Heck, there's alreay kinect games where it's tracking both your hands like pointers.

as long as the second controller isn't more expensive because of it and huge ridiculous looking glowing balls don't become the standard tracking device, i'm all in for it. i was just hoping you had some possible uses for it that didn't involve shooters (or mechs) :P
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goblaa

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#27 goblaa
Member since 2006 • 19304 Posts

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"] i don't really see any use in a second pointer other than making dual wielding in shooters a pain (imagine the skill required to learn how to do it right O_o), so please give me a couple more suggestions on how this would be useful enough to be obligatory. your mech game idea doesn't count :PBrunoBRS

Because why not. Even if it never really get's used you should provide devs with every tool they "could" need. It sucks that some move games require two wands. If the navigation controller had a ball on it too it would make life easier. It would help with depth tracking on both hands and could be used for dual guns on rail shooters an such. Heck, there's alreay kinect games where it's tracking both your hands like pointers.

as long as the second controller isn't more expensive because of it and huge ridiculous looking glowing balls don't become the standard tracking device, i'm all in for it. i was just hoping you had some possible uses for it that didn't involve shooters (or mechs) :P

Yeah, I don't want anymore glowing balls either. Honestly, I'd love to see a motion control system that somehow didn't use light. I'm not an engineer, so I have no idea how else motion controls could work. Maybe some sort of Doppler like system where a sensor bar is reading wave lengths bouncing off the controller(s)?

I don't know, but true 1:1 with no light sytem would be ideal.

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Episode_Eve

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#28 Episode_Eve
Member since 2004 • 16986 Posts

First, I wanna say this is an excellent write-up Jynx :). Very thorough and informative. This is an ideal platform for this type of discussion.

---

Wii: I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I anticipated the Wii more than every current generation system going in, and I even camped out for it. Using the IR pointer as a means of control was new and exciting to me, and I figured it would complement the other systems well (not that I planned on having it as a 'secondary' system). Even with my interest and enjoyment, I started playing my Wii less and less. I actually haven't played it in over a year :(. Honestly, the HD consoles have taken priority because of the, you guessed it, HD resolutions (using a 51" HDTV here!). Of course other factors, like my interest in the actual games played a role. There are a good number of games that I still need to play, and def. will, when the time and funds permit.

I haven't purchased Wii Motion +, but I may do so in the future, if a game requires it. So far, it seems like it's not being supported that much, and I think I read that Nintendo didn't implement it into Skyward Sword due to complications (correct me if I'm wrong!).

Kinect: Well, aside from the ridicule and hilarity leading up to its launch, Kinect looks to be a good investment for MS. A perceivably unsavory one from the 'core' gamers' perspective, but a good investment none-the-less, concerning revenue. Personally, I don't have any interest in Kinect at all for the following reasons: limited input / tracking methods, response and lag issues, & current price barrier. Using a camera as a gaming interface is a novel idea, but one that won't persist IMO. Something that doesn't sit well with me, is that it seems MS is putting most, if not all, of their eggs into the Kinect basket :?.

As of typing, I find the software offerings uninteresting. It's still early in its life cycle, but I don't see anything on the horizon appealing (I'm aware of future 'core' experiences, though I haven't seen any). Even the notion of augmenting my gaming experience with a controller doesn't seem worthwhile at this point. EX: I don't want to let go of the controller to gesture a grenade throw in Gears of War, for the price of $150. To me, Kinect is an advanced PS Eye, at over 3x the price, with 1.5x the benefits. Also, I bought an XBOX Live Vision Camera that was rarely used for gaming purposes (just thought I'd throw that in there :P).

Move: Akin to the Wii, I'm very interested in the Move. Actually, I plan on investing sometime in the near future. Earlier this generation, I purchased a PS Eye, and dabbled into some games for it (Eye of Judgment being one). Needless to say, this affair didn't last :P. It proved to be a shallow one for gaming. I don't regret the purchase because I now use it as a web cam and a mic! I'll also pair it with a Move controller in the future.

The thing that has me most interested in Move is how it's compatible with many games on the PS3. Titles like RE5 (which I've yet to play!), SOCOM 4, and Killzone 3 are very intriguing, as are some Move-only offerings. Coupling the PS Eye with the Move-mote is the best way to go about motion gaming I think, because it provides the best of all worlds: precise motion, button input, augmented reality (with Eye) & voice recognition (with Eye). Kinda like the Wii + Kinect to a degree :P. It's something I really wanted from my Wii, which is gaming in HD with precise motion controls. Overall, I like the approach Sony is taking, with catering to a new market, along with satiating their current base and potential 'core' gamer buyers.

---

All-in-all, I dig motion gaming :). It depends on the support and the actual method though! We all know that Nintendo had the balls, so to speak, to initiate a "Blue Ocean Strategy", and it did wonders for them. Even though we may know that Sony has been working on their tech for a long time, they, and MS were inspired by Ninty's success. They want a piece of that pie!

Going forward, I see motion as a vital part of the market, but I don't think it's an interface that will overtake conventional controllers anytime soon. For me, I want a balance between the two, and it looks like I can get that :).

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Silverbond

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#29 Silverbond
Member since 2008 • 16130 Posts

I was ready before being ready was cool. 8)

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CajunShooter

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#31 CajunShooter
Member since 2006 • 5276 Posts
I haven't purchased Wii Motion +, but I may do so in the future, if a game requires it. So far, it seems like it's not being supported that much, and I think I read that Nintendo didn't implement it into Skyward Sword due to complications (correct me if I'm wrong!). Episode_Eve
. Yes, you are wrong. Where have you been? Did you not watch E3 or read anything about Skyward Sword? The game was designed to be used with motion plus.
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Episode_Eve

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#32 Episode_Eve
Member since 2004 • 16986 Posts

[QUOTE="Episode_Eve"]I haven't purchased Wii Motion +, but I may do so in the future, if a game requires it. So far, it seems like it's not being supported that much, and I think I read that Nintendo didn't implement it into Skyward Sword due to complications (correct me if I'm wrong!). CajunShooter
. Yes, you are wrong. Where have you been? Did you not watch E3 or read anything about Skyward Sword? The game was designed to be used with motion plus.

Thanks for the correction :). I just looked up the story, and I seemed to have misremembered it!

Skyward Sword Almost Went Without Motion Plus

"Producer Eiji Aonuma admitted that after trying to implement the feature, they very nearly gave up on it. Fortunately, it was the persuasiveness of Nintendo's Senior Managing Director, Shigeru Miyamoto, along with the aid of Wii Sports Resort Producer Katsuya Eguchi which allowed the team to persevere in the quest to include realistic swordplay in Skyward Sword"

---

I didn't catch the Skyward Sword E3 demonstration, just the latter half of Nintendo's conference. I was upset for missing it, but I was told that it was somewhat unresponsive at the time :(. I was disappointed in that news, because I'm really looking forward to the game. It should be straight by the time of release though. Personally, I can't see myself going back to conventional controls after playing (and falling in love with) Twilight Princess :D.

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789shadow

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#33 789shadow
Member since 2006 • 20195 Posts

[QUOTE="CajunShooter"][QUOTE="Episode_Eve"]I haven't purchased Wii Motion +, but I may do so in the future, if a game requires it. So far, it seems like it's not being supported that much, and I think I read that Nintendo didn't implement it into Skyward Sword due to complications (correct me if I'm wrong!). Episode_Eve

. Yes, you are wrong. Where have you been? Did you not watch E3 or read anything about Skyward Sword? The game was designed to be used with motion plus.

Thanks for the correction :). I just looked up the story, and I seemed to have misremembered it!

Skyward Sword Almost Went Without Motion Plus

"Producer Eiji Aonuma admitted that after trying to implement the feature, they very nearly gave up on it. Fortunately, it was the persuasiveness of Nintendo's Senior Managing Director, Shigeru Miyamoto, along with the aid of Wii Sports Resort Producer Katsuya Eguchi which allowed the team to persevere in the quest to include realistic swordplay in Skyward Sword"

---

I didn't catch the Skyward Sword E3 demonstration, just the latter half of Nintendo's conference. I was upset for missing it, but I was told that it was somewhat unresponsive at the time :(. I was disappointed in that news, because I'm really looking forward to the game. It should be straight by the time of release though. Personally, I can't see myself going back to conventional controls after playing (and falling in love with) Twilight Princess :D.

Of course, the unresponiveness was already straightened out on the show floor.

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Episode_Eve

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#34 Episode_Eve
Member since 2004 • 16986 Posts

[QUOTE="Episode_Eve"]

[QUOTE="CajunShooter"]. Yes, you are wrong. Where have you been? Did you not watch E3 or read anything about Skyward Sword? The game was designed to be used with motion plus. 789shadow

Thanks for the correction :). I just looked up the story, and I seemed to have misremembered it!

Skyward Sword Almost Went Without Motion Plus

"Producer Eiji Aonuma admitted that after trying to implement the feature, they very nearly gave up on it. Fortunately, it was the persuasiveness of Nintendo's Senior Managing Director, Shigeru Miyamoto, along with the aid of Wii Sports Resort Producer Katsuya Eguchi which allowed the team to persevere in the quest to include realistic swordplay in Skyward Sword"

---

I didn't catch the Skyward Sword E3 demonstration, just the latter half of Nintendo's conference. I was upset for missing it, but I was told that it was somewhat unresponsive at the time :(. I was disappointed in that news, because I'm really looking forward to the game. It should be straight by the time of release though. Personally, I can't see myself going back to conventional controls after playing (and falling in love with) Twilight Princess :D.

Of course, the unresponiveness was already straightened out on the show floor.

That's great to hear :D. Remember, I didn't see the demo and only got impressions from others. All the while, I was confident in the game being responsive and amazing :).

Edit: What do y'all think about the rest of my post? I didn't write it to only talk about Zelda :x. (even though I love it :P)

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rockerbikie

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#35 rockerbikie
Member since 2010 • 10027 Posts

I'm going retro if the Gaming Industry is going Motion Movement.

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sandbox3d

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#36 sandbox3d
Member since 2010 • 5166 Posts

I'm going retro if the Gaming Industry is going Motion Movement.

rockerbikie

Heh. I remember saying the same thing when games started going 3d. The transition was jarring, but once devs got the hang of it and started pushing gameplay in interesting directions it was good and of course became the standard type of games we play today.

Not saying the same thing will happen here, but you never know.

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rockerbikie

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#37 rockerbikie
Member since 2010 • 10027 Posts
[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

[QUOTE="rockerbikie"]

I'm going retro if the Gaming Industry is going Motion Movement.

Heh. I remember saying the same thing when games started going 3d. The transition was jarring, but once devs got the hang of it and started pushing gameplay in interesting directions it was good and of course became the standard type of games we play today.

Not saying the same thing will happen here, but you never know.

I'd rather laze about. Also I will keep the games at 2D.
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Leo-Magic

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#38 Leo-Magic
Member since 2005 • 3025 Posts
what we see and what we play will be changed one day, so yeah im ready for anything.
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sandbox3d

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#39 sandbox3d
Member since 2010 • 5166 Posts

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

[QUOTE="rockerbikie"]

I'm going retro if the Gaming Industry is going Motion Movement.

rockerbikie

Heh. I remember saying the same thing when games started going 3d. The transition was jarring, but once devs got the hang of it and started pushing gameplay in interesting directions it was good and of course became the standard type of games we play today.

Not saying the same thing will happen here, but you never know.

I'd rather laze about. Also I will keep the games at 2D.

Well motion gaming doesn't necessarily mean jumping around like an idiot. Metroid Prime 3 played like a dream and enabled so many actions through motion in an intuitive way. I never had to do more than slight movements of the wrist.

As for second part I believe you misunderstood. I'm not talking about stereoscopic 3d viewing lol. I meant when games went from being 2d to 3d. This happened in the 90s. You cant just "keep the games at 2d" :lol:

My point is that major transitions can be rough and can seem unappealing at the time, but may turn out for the better.

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#40 AbleFa3
Member since 2010 • 901 Posts

Kinect is the only onei would ever consider buying, because is cheaper, has the hardcore games and has real Kinect only titles

And i am definatly not buying Wii Motion+ just for Skyward Sword, considering i hated the motion controls with the sticks, very akward and would rather play Zelda with a pad myself, so not paying extra just for that

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sandbox3d

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#41 sandbox3d
Member since 2010 • 5166 Posts

Kinect is the only onei would ever consider buying, because is cheaper, has the hardcore games and has real Kinect only titles

AbleFa3

What is so hardcore about Kinect? What is hardcore about gaming in general? :lol:

You young gamers are hilarious with all your needless terms, buzzwords, elitism, etc...

We are just gamers. We play games to entertain ourselves.

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AbleFa3

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#42 AbleFa3
Member since 2010 • 901 Posts

[QUOTE="AbleFa3"]

Kinect is the only onei would ever consider buying, because is cheaper, has the hardcore games and has real Kinect only titles

sandbox3d

What is so hardcore about Kinect? What is hardcore about gaming in general? :lol:

You young gamers are hilarious with all your needless terms, buzzwords, elitism, etc...

We are just gamers. We play games to entertain ourselves.

Indeed, those that prefer the deeper more complex games like RPGs are the hardcore gamers, of course there are casuals too that just want to have fun, and a hardcore can play casually as well, but casuals would not play a huge deep RPG easilly

BTW, i am as old a gamer as it gets

Haunt, Rise of Nightmares, Project Draco, Star Wars, Project D, Steel Batalion etc are all Kinect games made for Kinect and coming in 2011, that is my point, there is nothing similar for Move

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sandbox3d

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#43 sandbox3d
Member since 2010 • 5166 Posts

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

[QUOTE="AbleFa3"]

Kinect is the only onei would ever consider buying, because is cheaper, has the hardcore games and has real Kinect only titles

AbleFa3

What is so hardcore about Kinect? What is hardcore about gaming in general? :lol:

You young gamers are hilarious with all your needless terms, buzzwords, elitism, etc...

We are just gamers. We play games to entertain ourselves.

Indeed, those that prefer the deeper more complex games like RPGs are the hardcore gamers, of course there are casuals too that just want to have fun, and a hardcore can play casually as well, but casuals would not play a huge deep RPG easilly

BTW, i am as old a gamer as it gets

Haunt, Rise of Nightmares, Project Draco, Star Wars, Project D, Steel Batalion etc are all Kinect games made for Kinect and coming in 2011, that is my point, there is nothing similar for Move

I've yet to see one cohesive definition that separates hardcore gamers from casuals. Even your definition is simply based on preference and preference in gaming again comes down to simply what entertains you. I know guys that have been gaming for 30 years that still dont like complex RPGs. Does that mean they are casuals?

And for an old gamer you are very short sighted to judge new tech based on limited libraries so early on. If you were "old as a gamer gets" I'd think you would have learned your lesson on this one by now.

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Jynxzor

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#44 Jynxzor
Member since 2003 • 9313 Posts
Suprised I didn't get more TL-DR from people, I'm glad I decided to make this thread, brought some great discussion up and I've yet to see any obvious flamers.
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SpinoRaptor24

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#45 SpinoRaptor24
Member since 2008 • 10316 Posts

I'd still take a controller over motion any day of the week. I play videogames to unwind, and nobody really unwinds when their standing up and flailing their arms and legs like a goon.

Which is why I'll probably stay away from Kinect. I'm glad Nintendo is implementing 3D into their next handheld. Least I'll be able to enjoy games without clapping or waving my hands around.

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fabz_95

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#46 fabz_95
Member since 2006 • 15425 Posts
Awesome thread Jynx, I think we'll have a mix of motion controls and dual analogue controls. Not every game is suited to motion controls so I think we'll need the option of both.
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Jynxzor

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#47 Jynxzor
Member since 2003 • 9313 Posts
Awesome thread Jynx, I think we'll have a mix of motion controls and dual analogue controls. Not every game is suited to motion controls so I think we'll need the option of both.fabz_95
I was really wanting to make it for the October SWM but I feel it's out of place in the aniv edition.
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#48 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="goblaa"]

Because why not. Even if it never really get's used you should provide devs with every tool they "could" need. It sucks that some move games require two wands. If the navigation controller had a ball on it too it would make life easier. It would help with depth tracking on both hands and could be used for dual guns on rail shooters an such. Heck, there's alreay kinect games where it's tracking both your hands like pointers.

goblaa

as long as the second controller isn't more expensive because of it and huge ridiculous looking glowing balls don't become the standard tracking device, i'm all in for it. i was just hoping you had some possible uses for it that didn't involve shooters (or mechs) :P

Yeah, I don't want anymore glowing balls either. Honestly, I'd love to see a motion control system that somehow didn't use light. I'm not an engineer, so I have no idea how else motion controls could work. Maybe some sort of Doppler like system where a sensor bar is reading wave lengths bouncing off the controller(s)?

I don't know, but true 1:1 with no light sytem would be ideal.

well to be tracked, the system needs some kind of wave (preferably electromagnetic, you don't want your wiimote emmiting ultrasound, that would be stupid and probably inaccurate) and light is the cheapest. infrared's only downside is the interference with strong sunlight. i don't see they giving up on it so soon. and they could always add thousands of gyroscopes to aid. never looked up prices, but they're supposed to be cheap.
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haziqonfire

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#49 haziqonfire
Member since 2005 • 36392 Posts

Couple of things I want to mention.

First, I feel that motion gaming is not a 'movement' or 'the future'. It's on the side, along with traditional control schemes. Like someone mentioned before, a lot of the best Wii titles use limited motion controls, which is true. Which makes sense, because the Wii is all about making things simple, using easy control set ups, whether they require motion controls or not. New Super Mario Bros Wii is successful because it's easy to play. You hold the controller like an NES controller -- likewise with Kirby, which released last month.

This is the reason why I much prefer the Wii's control set up versus Move and Kinect. Kinect makes it too hard to play traditional games with the sensor (we haven't seen much, I know you can use the 360 control pad -- but the whole point of Kinect is to get your body moving, so whats the point of confining yourself to hold the controller while using the sensor?). Move I suppose is somewhat more versitile, but still not as much as the Wiimote. You can use the Wiimote in a variety of ways. Use it like a TV remote, use it with it's pointer, use it sideways like a NES controller, use it with a nunchuck or use the classic controller. I think Nintendo's success with motion gaming isn't really the motion controls, rather the simplicity and many uses of the controller itself. It's brilliant.

So I don't think what Sony and Microsoft are doing are the right steps. Both companies should have waited next generation to implement something similar to what Nintendo did. A control that has many uses along with a traditional control pad for games that simply just work better without motion gaming or a controller with limited buttons.

I'm sure Kinect will sell well, Microsoft isn't taking it lightly ($500 million on advertising means a lot) - It might be fun, but it's more limited then both Move and the Wiimote. I believe next generation both Sony and Microsoft will still not realize what made the Wii so successful and Nintendo will yet again, have a unique and brilliant strategy with their control methods.

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rcafan

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#50 rcafan
Member since 2010 • 2025 Posts
the ps move has yet to prove itself so there no reason for you to say its better than wii there no proof of it.