The PS4 is Only Stronger on Paper

There are a ton of people throwing around the catch phrase "stronger on paper" as if hardware differences are all theoretical, and the xbox one and the PS4 will actually have equivalent real performance.

Stronger on paper happens when hardware specifications isn't translated to performance, it happened with the PS3 where developers had alot of difficulties accessing it's processing capabilities. With the xbox one and PS4, they have almost the same architecture, developers are essentially programming on the same platform. "Stronger on paper" is irrelevant here, because if developers can't leverage hardware on the PS4, the same will happen on the xbox one. In every other case, assuming developers knows what they're doing, you will see a performance difference that translate roughly to the difference in hardware, which is: the PS4 has a GPU~7850, and Xbox one ~7770. This is a MUCH MUCH bigger difference compared to xbox 360 vs PS4.

It's ridiculously more powerful and it has the system bandwidth to move that data tangibly.  We're also seeing a 256-bit bus versus 128.  It won't be very long before the difference between the games is noticable.

Did I upset you bro? 

Did I upset you bro? 

seanmcloughlin

who are you

PS4 has more power and better memory. Multi plats wont show any difference between the 2 because there's no reason to make one better than the other. PS4 exclusives will be made to harness all of it's power.

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

Did I upset you bro? 

IshmaelSonata

who are you

who are you?

IshmaelSonata

The one who prompted you to write that post

On paper the PS4 is stronger but I think they will be evry similar in terms of what they produce. Except for PS4 exclusives because they have talented dev teams like SSM and ND, not necessarily because it's stronger

seanmcloughlin

There are a ton of people throwing around the catch phrase "stronger on paper". Do you even know what that term implies? 

Stronger on paper happens when hardware specifications isn't translated to performance, it happened with the PS3 where developers had alot of difficulties accessing it's processing capabilities. With the xbox one and PS4, they have almost the same architecture, developers are essentially programming on the same platform. "Stronger on paper" is irrelevant here, because if developers can't leverage hardware on the PS4, the same will happen on the xbox one. In every other case, assuming developers knows what they're doing, you will see a performance difference that translate roughly to the difference in hardware, which is: the PS4 has a GPU~7850, and Xbox one ~7770. This is a MUCH MUCH bigger difference compared to xbox 360 vs PS4.

IshmaelSonata

http://uk.gamespot.com/forums/topic/29408570/xbox-one-vs-ps4-power

In this case stronger on paper means pretty much everything because the hardware in the Xbox One and the PS4 is practically the same. The PS4 just has a straight up more power GPU (50% more stream processors) and lower latency RAM. Their CPUs are practically identical. If the XOne's OS is taking 2 cores away and 3 gigs of RAM then they are making that gap even larger.

This isn't some Cell vs. Xenon debate like back last gen. The PS4 and XBox one are built using the same core technologies. The biggest difference is that the XOne went with DDR3 ram and 32 mbs of ESRAM to make up for the lower latency and Sony went for GDDR5 ram which is DDR3 ram tuned for latency so they didn't need some cash of low-latency ram. 

This is pretty clear. The PS4 is going to be clearly and noticeably more powerful throughout the next generation. We'll really start seeing the difference in a year or two. 

The one who prompted you to write that post

seanmcloughlin

It seems that all lemmings do now is throw this term around, so even if you've made the same arguement in the past, you're not special in anyway, sorry to dissappoint.  

Saying stronger on paper is just like saying its stronger period lol. What does that even mean? Is that supposed to undermine the power gap? lol Ignore the loser lemmings. They got nothing better to do

Anybody with a brain will tell you that, with similar architecture, the PS4 is significantly more powerful. This means: Better looking multiplats by a big margin, better looking exclusives.

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

The one who prompted you to write that post

IshmaelSonata

It seems that all lemmings do now is throw this term around, so even if you've made the same arguement in the past, you're not special in anyway, sorry to dissappoint.  

Pfff more special than you :cool:

Oh and I'm not a lemming

[QUOTE="IshmaelSonata"]

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

The one who prompted you to write that post

seanmcloughlin

It seems that all lemmings do now is throw this term around, so even if you've made the same arguement in the past, you're not special in anyway, sorry to dissappoint.  

Pfff more special than you :cool:

Oh and I'm not a lemming

ok ok, if you're not a lemming, my mistake for bundling, you sure talk like one though :?.

In this case stronger on paper means pretty much everything because the hardware in the Xbox One and the PS4 is practically the same. The PS4 just has a straight up more power GPU (50% more stream processors) and lower latency RAM. Their CPUs are practically identical. If the XOne's OS is taking 2 cores away and 3 gigs of RAM then they are making that gap even larger.

This isn't some Cell vs. Xenon debate like back last gen. The PS4 and XBox one are built using the same core technologies. The biggest difference is that the XOne went with DDR3 ram and 32 mbs of ESRAM to make up for the lower latency and Sony went for GDDR5 ram which is DDR3 ram tuned for latency so they didn't need some cash of low-latency ram. 

This is pretty clear. The PS4 is going to be clearly and noticeably more powerful throughout the next generation. We'll really start seeing the difference in a year or two. 

Wasdie

not bad considering PS4 will launch at $100 cheaper :)

In this case stronger on paper means pretty much everything because the hardware in the Xbox One and the PS4 is practically the same. The PS4 just has a straight up more power GPU (50% more stream processors) and lower latency RAM. Their CPUs are practically identical. If the XOne's OS is taking 2 cores away and 3 gigs of RAM then they are making that gap even larger.

This isn't some Cell vs. Xenon debate like back last gen. The PS4 and XBox one are built using the same core technologies. The biggest difference is that the XOne went with DDR3 ram and 32 mbs of ESRAM to make up for the lower latency and Sony went for GDDR5 ram which is DDR3 ram tuned for latency so they didn't need some cash of low-latency ram. 

This is pretty clear. The PS4 is going to be clearly and noticeably more powerful throughout the next generation. We'll really start seeing the difference in a year or two. 

Wasdie

I believe we will see it at launch.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

In this case stronger on paper means pretty much everything because the hardware in the Xbox One and the PS4 is practically the same. The PS4 just has a straight up more power GPU (50% more stream processors) and lower latency RAM. Their CPUs are practically identical. If the XOne's OS is taking 2 cores away and 3 gigs of RAM then they are making that gap even larger.

This isn't some Cell vs. Xenon debate like back last gen. The PS4 and XBox one are built using the same core technologies. The biggest difference is that the XOne went with DDR3 ram and 32 mbs of ESRAM to make up for the lower latency and Sony went for GDDR5 ram which is DDR3 ram tuned for latency so they didn't need some cash of low-latency ram. 

This is pretty clear. The PS4 is going to be clearly and noticeably more powerful throughout the next generation. We'll really start seeing the difference in a year or two. 

Malta_1980

not bad considering PS4 will launch at $100 cheaper :)

^ yes, Stronger, less DRM and $100.00 dollars cheaper.... Lems are going mad, foaming at the mouth about any thing they can make up to say that their console is somehow better.  

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

In this case stronger on paper means pretty much everything because the hardware in the Xbox One and the PS4 is practically the same. The PS4 just has a straight up more power GPU (50% more stream processors) and lower latency RAM. Their CPUs are practically identical. If the XOne's OS is taking 2 cores away and 3 gigs of RAM then they are making that gap even larger.

This isn't some Cell vs. Xenon debate like back last gen. The PS4 and XBox one are built using the same core technologies. The biggest difference is that the XOne went with DDR3 ram and 32 mbs of ESRAM to make up for the lower latency and Sony went for GDDR5 ram which is DDR3 ram tuned for latency so they didn't need some cash of low-latency ram. 

This is pretty clear. The PS4 is going to be clearly and noticeably more powerful throughout the next generation. We'll really start seeing the difference in a year or two. 

casharmy

I believe we will see it at launch.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="casharmy"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

In this case stronger on paper means pretty much everything because the hardware in the Xbox One and the PS4 is practically the same. The PS4 just has a straight up more power GPU (50% more stream processors) and lower latency RAM. Their CPUs are practically identical. If the XOne's OS is taking 2 cores away and 3 gigs of RAM then they are making that gap even larger.

This isn't some Cell vs. Xenon debate like back last gen. The PS4 and XBox one are built using the same core technologies. The biggest difference is that the XOne went with DDR3 ram and 32 mbs of ESRAM to make up for the lower latency and Sony went for GDDR5 ram which is DDR3 ram tuned for latency so they didn't need some cash of low-latency ram. 

This is pretty clear. The PS4 is going to be clearly and noticeably more powerful throughout the next generation. We'll really start seeing the difference in a year or two. 

NationProtector

I believe we will see it at launch.

if there is some kind of huge difference then i didn't see it.

games on both looked about equal.

maybe it will become more clear once both consoles are out and we can do side by side comparisons of the multiplats and gfx effects in exclusives and whatnot.. 

In this case stronger on paper means pretty much everything because the hardware in the Xbox One and the PS4 is practically the same. The PS4 just has a straight up more power GPU (50% more stream processors) and lower latency RAM. Their CPUs are practically identical. If the XOne's OS is taking 2 cores away and 3 gigs of RAM then they are making that gap even larger.

This isn't some Cell vs. Xenon debate like back last gen. The PS4 and XBox one are built using the same core technologies. The biggest difference is that the XOne went with DDR3 ram and 32 mbs of ESRAM to make up for the lower latency and Sony went for GDDR5 ram which is DDR3 ram tuned for latency so they didn't need some cash of low-latency ram. 

This is pretty clear. The PS4 is going to be clearly and noticeably more powerful throughout the next generation. We'll really start seeing the difference in a year or two. 

Wasdie

Take this with a grain of salt but a developer seems to think the difference will be noticeable day one:

In talking to a developer who wished to remain anonymous, gamers will see a difference on Day One when they compare third party PS4 games to Xbox One head-to-head. The developer told me the PS4 is 40 percent more powerful than Xbox One and games like Call of Duty Ghosts will be noticeably different out of the gate.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2013/06/15/sony-playstation-4-launch-edition-already-sold-out-at-amazon/

This is pretty clear. The PS4 is going to be clearly and noticeably more powerful throughout the next generation. We'll really start seeing the difference in a year or two. Wasdie

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

In this case stronger on paper means pretty much everything because the hardware in the Xbox One and the PS4 is practically the same. The PS4 just has a straight up more power GPU (50% more stream processors) and lower latency RAM. Their CPUs are practically identical. If the XOne's OS is taking 2 cores away and 3 gigs of RAM then they are making that gap even larger.

This isn't some Cell vs. Xenon debate like back last gen. The PS4 and XBox one are built using the same core technologies. The biggest difference is that the XOne went with DDR3 ram and 32 mbs of ESRAM to make up for the lower latency and Sony went for GDDR5 ram which is DDR3 ram tuned for latency so they didn't need some cash of low-latency ram. 

This is pretty clear. The PS4 is going to be clearly and noticeably more powerful throughout the next generation. We'll really start seeing the difference in a year or two. 

casharmy

I believe we will see it at launch.

At the most multiplats will run a bit better on the PS4. It's really early in the dev cycle for both consoles. Devleoper's haven't had the proper exposure to the hardware for them to really start utilizing it properly. Right now they are probably using more PC oriented engines. The performance of the two consoles will come off roughly the same until they really start optimizing for the hardware.

I guess the hardware differences could be enough, but given what I saw at E3 with Ryse, the Xbox One isn't a slouch. 

Remember even the consoles are hitting diminshing returns now. 40% difference in hardware isn't as large as it used to be. 

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

In this case stronger on paper means pretty much everything because the hardware in the Xbox One and the PS4 is practically the same. The PS4 just has a straight up more power GPU (50% more stream processors) and lower latency RAM. Their CPUs are practically identical. If the XOne's OS is taking 2 cores away and 3 gigs of RAM then they are making that gap even larger.

This isn't some Cell vs. Xenon debate like back last gen. The PS4 and XBox one are built using the same core technologies. The biggest difference is that the XOne went with DDR3 ram and 32 mbs of ESRAM to make up for the lower latency and Sony went for GDDR5 ram which is DDR3 ram tuned for latency so they didn't need some cash of low-latency ram. 

This is pretty clear. The PS4 is going to be clearly and noticeably more powerful throughout the next generation. We'll really start seeing the difference in a year or two. 

dream431ca

Take this with a grain of salt but a developer seems to think the difference will be noticeable day one:

In talking to a developer who wished to remain anonymous, gamers will see a difference on Day One when they compare third party PS4 games to Xbox One head-to-head. The developer told me the PS4 is 40 percent more powerful than Xbox One and games like Call of Duty Ghosts will be noticeably different out of the gate.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2013/06/15/sony-playstation-4-launch-edition-already-sold-out-at-amazon/

so although 40% sounds important and will in fact be a bit  better you will not see any more of a real difference than we saw between ps3 and 360.

FWIW, Xbox One will use DirectX while PS4 will use OpenGL.  So, they won't be direct ports.

[QUOTE="dream431ca"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

In this case stronger on paper means pretty much everything because the hardware in the Xbox One and the PS4 is practically the same. The PS4 just has a straight up more power GPU (50% more stream processors) and lower latency RAM. Their CPUs are practically identical. If the XOne's OS is taking 2 cores away and 3 gigs of RAM then they are making that gap even larger.

This isn't some Cell vs. Xenon debate like back last gen. The PS4 and XBox one are built using the same core technologies. The biggest difference is that the XOne went with DDR3 ram and 32 mbs of ESRAM to make up for the lower latency and Sony went for GDDR5 ram which is DDR3 ram tuned for latency so they didn't need some cash of low-latency ram. 

This is pretty clear. The PS4 is going to be clearly and noticeably more powerful throughout the next generation. We'll really start seeing the difference in a year or two. 

Riverwolf007

Take this with a grain of salt but a developer seems to think the difference will be noticeable day one:

In talking to a developer who wished to remain anonymous, gamers will see a difference on Day One when they compare third party PS4 games to Xbox One head-to-head. The developer told me the PS4 is 40 percent more powerful than Xbox One and games like Call of Duty Ghosts will be noticeably different out of the gate.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2013/06/15/sony-playstation-4-launch-edition-already-sold-out-at-amazon/

so although 40% sounds important and will in fact be a bit  better you will not see any more of a real difference than we saw between ps3 and 360.

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

Did I upset you bro? 

IshmaelSonata

who are you

lol

the differences are astounding. I cant wait to see how PS4 games evolve this gen.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

In this case stronger on paper means pretty much everything because the hardware in the Xbox One and the PS4 is practically the same. The PS4 just has a straight up more power GPU (50% more stream processors) and lower latency RAM. Their CPUs are practically identical. If the XOne's OS is taking 2 cores away and 3 gigs of RAM then they are making that gap even larger.

This isn't some Cell vs. Xenon debate like back last gen. The PS4 and XBox one are built using the same core technologies. The biggest difference is that the XOne went with DDR3 ram and 32 mbs of ESRAM to make up for the lower latency and Sony went for GDDR5 ram which is DDR3 ram tuned for latency so they didn't need some cash of low-latency ram.

This is pretty clear. The PS4 is going to be clearly and noticeably more powerful throughout the next generation. We'll really start seeing the difference in a year or two.

Malta_1980

not bad considering PS4 will launch at $100 cheaper :)

It helped they didnt make the ps4 camera mandatory, which means if you dont want one, you dont have to buy one and it isnt mandatory for the system which is cool. I love being able to make my own choices. Its sold seperately and it sells seperate for 60 dollars, which still makes the package 40 dollars cheaper than a xbox one.

But yeah, its more powerful in a few key areas and its running ddr5 ram instead of ddr3 ram.

And its still cheaper.

Who gives a fvck about power? Didn't we just learn this past gen that it means absolutely dick-fvcking all for consoles?foxhound_fox

I care about power because more power means newer games and a wider variety.

A powerful system does not mean automatically it will have great games. But more power allows a wider variety of games. If all we had was a wii as our most powerful system it would have great games, but we wouldnt have games that are more complex.

When the super nintendo was out and everyone just said "We dont need more power to make good games!" and it never evolved beyond that then you wouldnt be playing all the thousands of great games to come out since then. Hell you wouldnt even have voice acting in games let alone even online multiplayer.

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

[QUOTE="dream431ca"]

Take this with a grain of salt but a developer seems to think the difference will be noticeable day one:

In talking to a developer who wished to remain anonymous, gamers will see a difference on Day One when they compare third party PS4 games to Xbox One head-to-head. The developer told me the PS4 is 40 percent more powerful than Xbox One and games like Call of Duty Ghosts will be noticeably different out of the gate.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2013/06/15/sony-playstation-4-launch-edition-already-sold-out-at-amazon/

cheesie253

so although 40% sounds important and will in fact be a bit  better you will not see any more of a real difference than we saw between ps3 and 360.

It's very simple, you just have to look at benchmarks for the two different graphics cards. The 7850 consistently performs ~20 fps better @1080p for games like crysis 3, battlefield 3, etc. 

At what cost you say? Well, the xbox one is $100 more.

Who gives a fvck about power? Didn't we just learn this past gen that it means absolutely dick-fvcking all for consoles?foxhound_fox

I do. I want better quality multiplats and better quality exclusives.

You sound like a mad MS fanboy.

[QUOTE="cheesie253"][QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]i would say it could easily be 40% more powerful but it would mean almost nothing because in computer graphics you don't really see big difference until you have huge jumps in computing power.

so although 40% sounds important and will in fact be a bit better you will not see any more of a real difference than we saw between ps3 and 360.

IshmaelSonata

It's very simple, you just have to look at benchmarks for the two different graphics cards. The 7850 consistently performs ~20 fps better @1080p for games like crysis 3, battlefield 3, etc.

At what cost you say? Well, the xbox one is $100 more.

People keep assuming that the weakest one will be the common denominator, it might be in the 6months-1st year, but for the rest of the run the console with the biggest install base will be the common denominator, and since multiplats are made on PC, its not that hard to scale down for the PS4 and then scale down some more for the Xbone.

As soon as Digital Foundry starts doing faceoffs of PS4 vs Xbone, it will all become very clear (maybe not with EA/Activision games... im sure MS will pay those to make the Ps4 version worse!)

whats up with esram area.  how come the ps4 doesnt have any of that?

whats up with esram area.  how come the ps4 doesnt have any of that?

Cubs360

Doesn't need it. The ESRAM is a low latency cache. The GDDR5 is all low latency thus the PS4 doesn't need a special cache.

[QUOTE="Cubs360"]

whats up with esram area.  how come the ps4 doesnt have any of that?

Wasdie

Doesn't need it. The ESRAM is a low latency cache. The GDDR5 is all low latency thus the PS4 doesn't need a special cache.

hmmm NO

ESRAM is low latency and high bandwith, GDDR5 has very high bandwith but higher latency. But since its a console, a closed circuit, and the CPU has specific modifications to deal with the higher latency (higher than DDR3), the higher latency has no special impact for gaming/OS.

[QUOTE="IshmaelSonata"]

[QUOTE="cheesie253"] Anyone who has dealt with upgrading PC hardware knows this. I also don't see a 40% or bigger advantage here. The two systems are much closer to eachother than some people will admit. It's the law of diminishing returns. Something anyone who buys the newest line of graphics cards will know about. At what point does product A perform better than B and at what cost. The two architectures are pretty much even par. cheesie253

It's very simple, you just have to look at benchmarks for the two different graphics cards. The 7850 consistently performs ~20 fps better @1080p for games like crysis 3, battlefield 3, etc.

At what cost you say? Well, the xbox one is $100 more.

I might agree with you except there is a 3rd system that uses this architecture in the mix, namely PC, and PC games always come with quality and performance settings. This means the code is already there. Most developers will keep the 3 using the same code base until near the end, then just hard code the settings on X1 and P4 that work best, but that will put the P4 ahead.