The PS4 Pro is a complete failure

What's the purpose of the Pro?

@Juub1990: If you thought the PS4 Pro's boost mode was gonna turn 30fps into 60fps, that's on you. And the frame pacing issues in bloodborne are still there. Some of the actual dips are gone, but the frame pacing judder is still there. Boost mode can't fix that. It helps reduce some of it by about 30%, but it can't eliminate bad coding/engines.


To get real improvements in resolution and framerates, a patch is required. That's on devs, not the hardware. So your OP is actually 1/2 right. I'm not sure why you are focusing on calling out the hardware though. Was it Nvidia's fault that FH3 on PC took so long to run well? Should people have returned their 1070's and 1080's?

Never called out the hardware either. I said the PS4 Pro is a complete failure. The PS4 Pro could sport a 1080Ti and a 5960X but if only a handful of games took advantage of it, it would still be a failure.

I didn't say I thought Boost Mode would do that. I said we bought the PS4 Pro to get higher frame rates as in have our 30fps games run at 45 or 60fps. Instead all we got is a more consistent hit at the target and a couple of games with higher resolutions.

You guys are imagining a lot of things I literally never said.

@Juub1990:

Well done my friend, thread is pure Gold. lol :P

To offer Playstation gamers the ability to play some of their favorite games with better performance and visuals. HDR and checkerboard upscaling offer huge upgrades. These are the same benefits that Xbox gamers will enjoy with Scorpio. But you can't expect the console to magically upgrade the games. The enhancements require work from developers. But the majority of consoles that will be sold in the coming years will be what ever is cheapest. And the majority of games sold will be played on those base platforms, so that is what developers are going to target first. The majority of them anyway.

It didn't exactly start with a bang for sure. Maybe the failure is in the unclear message as to what it's supposed to do and a reason for why it exists. Scorpio seems to have a clearer message at least - we'll just wait and see if it pulls it off.

Resolution is much easier to advertise than frame rate who the vast majority of people have no idea what it is.

@Juub1990 said:

@goldenelementxl said:

Boost mode doesn't give higher frame rates. It adjust frame pacing and makes the games more stable. And I did say higher frame rates AND resolution but as a true gamespotter, you only take a part of the sentence and ignore the rest.

Loads of videos on YouTube showing actual performance say you're wrong.

Yeah it gives more stable frame rates that are much closer to the target. It doesn't go over the target frame rate(higher). Games that run at 30fps will still run at 30fps but won't have dips.

But it's already been made clear Scorpio has been designed differently. MS has already gone through the existing X1 library and found out how the performance of the games can be maximized. These settings will automatically go into effect when someone launches that game on the Scorpio. No dev patch or turning on boost mode required. Improvements in resolution and fps. Also I don't know if Sony ever gave Pro devkits to devs, but devs have Scorpio devkits and are using them. It's been confirmed major releases such as Shadow Of War will have specific Scorpio support, and RDR2 is also expected to as well.

So actually there are shortcomings in the Pro hardware. And you can't just blame the devs. Also keep in mind the Pro didn't get anywhere near the memory or system bandwidth upgrade the X1 is getting. Scorpio is giving devs much more ceiling room to work with.

No incentive for developers to bother... Same for consumers

Yep.

http://wccftech.com/prey-pc-performance-benchmarks-nvidia-amd-gpu/

Relative to ASUS R9-390's 5.3 TF, RX-580's 6.6 TF is gimped by effective memory bandwidth. It's a bit annoying that memory bandwidth bottlenecks are normal day for shit AMD GPUs.

Prey is AMD Gaming Evolved title with shit results.

AMD's Raja Koduri needs to be fired e.g. RX-580 is even using GTX 1060's newer GDDR5-9000 memory modules.

I don't care about graphics and resolutions.I care about games.I stick with ps4 slim and I am OK. After all you are getting used to the graphics or frame rates.Ps4 pro is for those who have extra money and a 4k tv. It's just marketing.Like phones etc.My opinion is as long as games cone out to both systems,there is no need to buy ps4 pro.That's my personal opinion

Playing games like BF1, Nioh, Skyrim and soon FF14 with enhanced modes have been well worth the Prp purchase imo. It's doing exactly what I thought it would. One crap dev doesn't make the console a failure. You are just playing the wrong games.

I have no idea wtf sony thinking is with the Pro. Its half ass everywhere but this game is half ass everywhere on any ps4 version. I must say though tc your doing a good job at stirring the shit up lol.

Actually, Scorpio overrides texture filtering for XBO and X360 games to max AF settings without involvement from game developers.

PS4 Pro's boost mode = minor clock speed boost with 18 CU.

Scorpio doesn't need boost mode since the entire machine is already in boost mode by default i.e. XBO games has access to the entire 40 CU at 1172 Mhz resource.

Agreed. People are doing all this hyping for PS4 Pro and Scorpio but at the end of the day they're still gonna play the same damn games. Both of those consoles belong to this gen and tbh they will change nothing. I'll wait for next gen. It's no point in buying either system.

Don't care much about these mid gen upgrades, they're a waste of money if you already own the platform.

Bottom line- graphics don't matter if the game can't have stable performance with those graphics.

@ronvalencia: What you're saying is true and it's impressive of the Scorpio. However, don't go in expecting miracles. Games that are locked at 30 fps at most won't have framerate drops and games that don't have variable resolution won't be upscaled. Even if they do have variable resolution, I'm betting all of them range between 720p and 1080p so they won't run higher than that, even though Scorpio may be able to handle it. Like with PS4 Pro, the most impressive gains will be by games optimized for the system or patched by the developers after Scorpio launch.

This is true. We can't expect automagically for the games to be upgraded with additional features. However, the system was released with no enhancement to PS4 games showing that Sony did not actively work with developers for the creation of this device. Its unfortunately an half ass attempt and there is strong evidence that demonstrates that. I don't think its a problem with the system's performance but the manner in which it was implemented seemed to make the process of enhancing existing games more involved than it should be, lowering dev support for the new features and lowering its value as an upgraded system. At least they released boost mode to offset this problem.

Which is also half ass lol.

he's right, the pro and the scorpio are for console gamers that want higher performance, yet you're comparing it with the pc. I've seen some articles of digital foundry who show nice improvements in certain games. Fallout for instance runs quite fluid with boost mode compared to the original ps4.

It's only normal that a lot of games don't have the improvements yet for the ps4 pro, a lot of games started development before the pro devkit was available.

Microsoft said scorpio won't have this problem since they tested and tweaked every game that is already released themselves, and I presume they will continue to do so after the scorpio is released.

This was a glorious realization for me. I play so few multiplayer games that I eventually had to wonder what I was shelling out the money for.

Sounds like you were expecting too much from the Pro. It's a minor upgrade from the PS4 and it's a success at what Sony claimed it was, a minor upgrade. If you're expecting double framerates in all games or for every dev to take full advantage of its power the joke's on you. Pro and Scorpio are both upgrades to their respective older models, neither are nextgen systems, A lot of people need to temper down their expectations or they'll risk getting disappointed like you. I bought my Pro because of improvements to VR and also because my launch PS4 was giving problems. If not for these reasons I would have stuck with my OG PS4 since I already own a decent rig for better running games and graphics.

@Juub1990: Pretty much.

Only reason I bought the pro instead of the base model, was for 1080p remote play. (I stream to two different locations in the house)

Then I get it home, try to use remote play, and it does indeed do 1080p, but with heavy video compression/block artifacts, making it no better than 720p on the base ps4.

What a joke of a system this thing has been. As soon as I'm done with HZD and P5, I'm selling it.

Idiots tend to do that.

720pStation Pro baby!

This. Its also why cows trying to argue Scorpio wont matter because the Pro doesnt are wrong. The Pro requires devs to patch games to upgrade them, Scorpio doesnt.

The Pro was a total half-assed project that they didnt even put effort into because of their huge lead. Sony wont admit it but they probably designed it to help PSVR and to outdo the Xbox One S.

They just didnt expect to get blindsided by Scorpio like they did. It was hilarious watching the Pro reveal last year the Sony execs looked sick and didnt even want to be there.

Same ol Sony always fumbles. If theres anyone that can screw up a good thing its Sony. Sure they make some good exclusives, but they get too many passes from cows here on their foibles.

People give MS crap but Sony has had a string of questionable moves: PSTV, PSNow, PSVR, PSPro, increased cost of PS+.

It certainly seems like Sony hasn't put as much thought into the Pro as MS has with Scorpio... especially making it easier for devs to port games to it.

But I'm sure once Scorpio comes out, more "optimized" games will show up on Pro... devs will probably create a Scorpio version as a base, then downgrade it alittle for Pro version.

seems to me the studio botched the last PS4 update on both ends, adding screen tearing and frame-pacing / stuttering issues

@UNcartMe: Idiots don't read. Kinda like you.

Sales wise, I think so. However, I enjoy my pro a lot. I play my ps4 nearly every day, and I have and continue to get my money's worth. Paired with a 4K HDR Sony TV, games like Ratchet & Clank, and Resident Evil 7 look fantastic to me.

1 - Of course "Neo" dev kits went out to developers.

2 - The games will need patches. If you think otherwise, you are in for a rude awakening. The existing XB1 and 360 BC games will run just fine without them, maybe even a little better if they use dynamic settings. But to increase resolution, or use new assets... Come on now. That's not how this works! New settings can't magically go into effect.

3 - The Scorpio is enjoying the advantages it had largely because it is launching AN ENTIRE YEAR later that the PS4 Pro. Tech prices fall every month as new advances are made. Why wouldn't the Scorpio be better than the Pro? Microsoft also had the advantage of comparing their early specifications with the competition, ensuring that they came out on top. Sony toyed with the idea of boosting the CPU further, but mentioned that would cause the price to go up too high. That and they needed to get the Pro out fast for PSVR and to sell some 4K HDR TV's. Microsoft had neither of those things on the market during holiday 2016.

^this. Plus as Mark Cerny stated, they didn't want to modify the CPU so that the PS Pro wouldn't break backwards compatibility with the PS4.

"However, CPU doesn't receive the same increase in raw capabilities - and Sony believes that interoperability with the existing PS4 is the primary reason for sticking with the same, relatively modest Jaguar CPU clusters.

"For variable frame-rate games, we were looking to boost the frame-rate. But we also wanted interoperability. We want the 700 existing titles to work flawlessly," Mark Cerny explains. "That meant staying with eight Jaguar cores for the CPU and pushing the frequency as high as it would go on the new process technology, which turned out to be 2.1GHz. It's about 30 per cent higher than the 1.6GHz in the existing model."

"Moving to a different CPU - even if it's possible to avoid impact to console cost and form factor - runs the very high risk of many existing titles not working properly," Cerny explains. "The origin of these problems is that code running on the new CPU runs code at very different timing from the old one, and that can expose bugs in the game that were never encountered before."

2.13GHz CPU and 911MHz GPU in Pro mode, running at 1.6GHz and 800MHz respectively in base PS4 mode in order to lock back-compat with the standard model

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-inside-playstation-4-pro-how-sony-made-a-4k-games-machine

You are most likely right about the VR. The GPU is two sandwiched PS4 GPUs. This is great for VR, for it allows each GPU to render per eye.

There would be no need for patches. The system is designed to make existing XB1 and 360 BC games run BETTER, not just a little better. As I have said before, it would be similar to getting a newer video card.

Meh, I'm sure I'll have fun with the PRO when my 65" 4k Samsung arrives tomorrow :P

Don't blame the console, blame the shit tier developers.

Anyways, your title is an exaggeration. How can something be a complete failure when only a handful of games have any real serious performance issues because of PS4 Pro patching?

But for games to get the graphical upgrades like resolution, better textures, better effects etc, there will be patches. You know, the reason most people will be buying the Scorpio? Because without them, the Scorpio will be alot like the PS4 Pro. Some games will run better, but there really isn't a point...

Without a doubt it would need patches for features that did not exist in the original game. However, it will run all existing games better. Not some. MS do expect the some rare anomalies with regards to this though.

Cant say I'm surprised. I was always against mid-gen upgrades so I'm glad the Pro isnt doing so good. Hope both Sony and gamers who bought it have learnt their lesson. $100 more for barely to no difference whatsoever other than a slight change in resolution is... bafling to say the least

Now that's disingenuous. Moving from 1080p to 1440p or 1800p is a big freakin' deal. Ask a PC gamer. It takes a serious hardware bump to pull that off. And there are a few titles actually running native 4K! Not to mention the better lighting, textures, effects, reflections, foliage, draw distance, AA and other improvements the Pro brings over base PS4. If this was the difference between base PS4 and base Xbox One, the message board community would be having a field day! The difference between PS4 and Xbox One is far less and it was a big freakin' deal then. But when it's PS4 vs PS4 Pro it's, "barely to no difference whatsoever" ? Come on now!

don't worry if the pro is a failure the sales will reflect it....

and it has.

people speak with their wallets.

Umm...lol. I just bought a Pro about 3 weeks back I want to say? I love it, have no issues with it and the games I've played on it look amazing. Helps that I have a 55" 4K Samsung that is calibrated. Horizon is probably the best game visually I have ever played on a console...it's simply amazing how it looks on my TV. The Last of Us looks amazing, game always looked great though even at 720p on the Playstation 3...lol. And I just picked up Kingdom Hearts 1.5+2.5 and the smooth framerate and visuals make it a joy playing it again since the Playstation 2 days...

I'm sure other games don't look as great, don't have the enhancements, which is a bummer. Wish more developers would enhance more games, like Persona 5 for example but the way I see it, if the Scorpio does everything it says it'll do, I can keep the Pro for the console exclusives and pick up the rest on the Scorpio...

I personally haven't seen these issues, but I haven't played these games that have them like Prey for instance. Only bought the Pro to play the console exclusives I've been missing out on and it's been a win for me. Figured I'll grab Ratchet & Clank next and definitely plan on grabbing Persona 5 despite it not having an enhancement because I've heard great things about that game...

I'm just excited for E3 and want to see what's in store for everyone...it'll be a big win for gamers nonetheless!

Then Xbone Scorpio will be a bigger failure.

Indeed, it would fail at being the PS4 Pro. :)

The PS4 pro already get a 10 out of 10 at being a failure, kind of impossible to beat that!