The REAL MS mess!!!

So you have a console without "next gen" disc media. And because of that, you have limited space in which to fit an entire game, a game with HD content. So, a developer needs to take this into account when developing a game. He must figure out how to compress the files on the disc. But if you compress the files, normally, they have to be uncompressed in order to use them. Where do you uncompress them? To the console's HDD, of course.

And so lems say, "Where's the problem? We know the Core exists but most 360 owners have the better SKU's."

Here lies the problem: MS corporate vice president, Shane Kim said "that his company is "pushing back" on any publisher that encourages hard drive-enabled games that could not be playable on the Core version."

Well there you go. Devs can't use large capacity, next-gen disc storage, nor can they utilize and HDD. Man, MS must know something about compression that the rest of the world doesn't.

Lair is going to flopLittle_Dong

apprently

So you have a console without "next gen" disc media. And because of that, you have limited space in which to fit an entire game, a game with HD content. So, a developer needs to take this into account when developing a game. He must figure out how to compress the files on the disc. But if you compress the files, normally, they have to be uncompressed in order to use them. Where do you uncompress them? To the console's HDD, of course.

And so lems say, "Where's the problem? We know the Core exists but most 360 owners have the better SKU's."

Here lies the problem: MS corporate vice president, Shane Kim said "that his company is "pushing back" on any publisher that encourages hard drive-enabled games that could not be playable on the Core version."

Well there you go. Devs can't use large capacity, next-gen disc storage, nor can they utilize and HDD. Man, MS must know something about compression that the rest of the world doesn't.

dubvisions

Thanks for another topic regurgitated to death on System Wars.

[QUOTE="dubvisions"]

So you have a console without "next gen" disc media. And because of that, you have limited space in which to fit an entire game, a game with HD content. So, a developer needs to take this into account when developing a game. He must figure out how to compress the files on the disc. But if you compress the files, normally, they have to be uncompressed in order to use them. Where do you uncompress them? To the console's HDD, of course.

And so lems say, "Where's the problem? We know the Core exists but most 360 owners have the better SKU's."

Here lies the problem: MS corporate vice president, Shane Kim said "that his company is "pushing back" on any publisher that encourages hard drive-enabled games that could not be playable on the Core version."

Well there you go. Devs can't use large capacity, next-gen disc storage, nor can they utilize and HDD. Man, MS must know something about compression that the rest of the world doesn't.

dommeus

Thanks for another topic regurgitated to death on System Wars.

Show me a single thread that discusses these issues together the way I did.

I'm not talking about the Core being possible discontinued. I'm not talking about PGR4. Get a grip.

You've been reported. But thanks for playing.dubvisions

I guess I don't care, thanks for caring though

[QUOTE="dubvisions"]You've been reported. But thanks for playing.Little_Dong

I guess I don't care, thanks for caring though

Reported for what,for saying lair will flop

[QUOTE="dommeus"][QUOTE="dubvisions"]

So you have a console without "next gen" disc media. And because of that, you have limited space in which to fit an entire game, a game with HD content. So, a developer needs to take this into account when developing a game. He must figure out how to compress the files on the disc. But if you compress the files, normally, they have to be uncompressed in order to use them. Where do you uncompress them? To the console's HDD, of course.

And so lems say, "Where's the problem? We know the Core exists but most 360 owners have the better SKU's."

Here lies the problem: MS corporate vice president, Shane Kim said "that his company is "pushing back" on any publisher that encourages hard drive-enabled games that could not be playable on the Core version."

Well there you go. Devs can't use large capacity, next-gen disc storage, nor can they utilize and HDD. Man, MS must know something about compression that the rest of the world doesn't.

dubvisions

Thanks for another topic regurgitated to death on System Wars.

Show me a single thread that discusses these issues together the way I did.

I'm not talking about the Core being possible discontinued. I'm not talking about PGR4. Get a grip.

Get a grip? I'm not the one coming onto a gaming forum and slating a console because I support another. Maybe you should get a grip. There are more important things in life than slating and praising consoles.

Anyway this topic has been brought up numerous times in light of GTA IV's multiplatform status. No, I'm not going to go look and link examples, because I don't care enough. But you know it's true.

Lair is going to flopLittle_Dong

lol! That was so random and made me burst out laughing:lol:

Back on topic though..I will never understand what went through MS' head when they decided to not go with a standard HDD on ALL X360 consoles. They were fully aware that the limited DVD storage would hold back some developers; yet they still went on with an Xbox 360 SKU without a HDD. This is going to boggle me for the rest of the generation...

Get a grip? I'm not the one coming onto a gaming forum and slating a console because I support another. Maybe you should get a grip. There are more important things in life than slating and praising consoles.

Anyway this topic has been brought up numerous times in light of GTA IV's multiplatform status. No, I'm not going to go look and link examples, because I don't care enough. But you know it's true.

dommeus

Was anything I said in the original post not true? Tell me. What did I lie about?

You see, truth is truth. It doesn't matter if it comes from a lem, a cow, a sheep, a hermit, or your momma. Its the truth. And, yes, you can try to avoid the subject by attacking me for being a cow, that's cool. it just shows your lack of info, knowledge, or ability to debate.

An, again, NO. This topic has not been discussed in this fashion. No one has discussed (as a topic heading) how both the lack of blu-ray and HDD counter each other and make the other more needed.

So you have a console without "next gen" disc media. And because of that, you have limited space in which to fit an entire game, a game with HD content. So, a developer needs to take this into account when developing a game. He must figure out how to compress the files on the disc. But if you compress the files, normally, they have to be uncompressed in order to use them. Where do you uncompress them? To the console's HDD, of course.

And so lems say, "Where's the problem? We know the Core exists but most 360 owners have the better SKU's."

Here lies the problem: MS corporate vice president, Shane Kim said "that his company is "pushing back" on any publisher that encourages hard drive-enabled games that could not be playable on the Core version."

Well there you go. Devs can't use large capacity, next-gen disc storage, nor can they utilize and HDD. Man, MS must know something about compression that the rest of the world doesn't.

dubvisions

Welcome to E3 05..... this may be a new article but this is 100% old news to the gaming realm. And its obvious MS and its supporting devs must know alot about compression which is why the 360 has the amount of successful HD titles available for it. But like I said before, old news...

Move along fanboys, nothing to see here.....

Game On...

[QUOTE="dommeus"]

Get a grip? I'm not the one coming onto a gaming forum and slating a console because I support another. Maybe you should get a grip. There are more important things in life than slating and praising consoles.

Anyway this topic has been brought up numerous times in light of GTA IV's multiplatform status. No, I'm not going to go look and link examples, because I don't care enough. But you know it's true.

dubvisions

Was anything I said in the original post not true? Tell me. What did I lie about?

You see, truth is truth. It doesn't matter if it comes from a lem, a cow, a sheep, a hermit, or your momma. Its the truth. And, yes, you can try to avoid the subject by attacking me for being a cow, that's cool. it just shows your lack of info, knowledge, or ability to debate.

An, again, NO. This topic has not been discussed in this fashion. No one has discussed (as a topic heading) how both the lack of blu-ray and HDD counter each other and make the other more needed.

They don't want to hear the truth, it's as simply as that.

It's quite sad really...how can they help fixing the error (by constantly whining to MS or something along those lines) when they don't even want to acknowledge the error in the first place?

I don't mind DVD as the disc format, but the lack of a standard HDD doesn't make sense to me. Since the combination of both limiting factors does inhibit the efforts that the developers want to make, that much is evident and I believe we'll see more evidence of that further down this generation.

DVD is fine by me as I mentioned; I consider myself to be lazy..but swapping discs...come on. However, for a game such as PGR 4 I can see some issues.

Welcome to E3 05..... this may be a new article but this is 100% old news to the gaming realm. And its obvious MS and its supporting devs must know alot about compression which is why the 360 has the amount of successful HD titles available for it. But like I said before, old news...

Move along fanboys, nothing to see here.....

Game On...

FatalDomain

Why don't we take a look at past generations, shall we? In prior gens, the game's that came out at the beginning of the gen were dwarfed by the games that came out later. This is due to devs figuring out how to better utilize the current technology.

Yes, 360 has some great titles. there's no denying that. But how will the titles improve when you're using technologies that are from last gen? What will happen when devs start to utilize blu-ray (or HD-DVD, for that matter) and HDD's more and more? Will the 360 be able to aid in this?

yes MS totally screwed up with rushing the 360 out

and yes lair has eye candy but they wont get $60 from me just to fly a stupid dragon

You've been reported. But thanks for playing.dubvisions

Come on dub, have a sense of humor. The guy even has a cute picture to match his comment. Also, stop worrying about the 360 so much. You make so many threads attacking the 360. Just relax. It appears that Sony is starting to get it together. HS is coming soon. All will be well. :)

[QUOTE="dommeus"][QUOTE="dubvisions"]

So you have a console without "next gen" disc media. And because of that, you have limited space in which to fit an entire game, a game with HD content. So, a developer needs to take this into account when developing a game. He must figure out how to compress the files on the disc. But if you compress the files, normally, they have to be uncompressed in order to use them. Where do you uncompress them? To the console's HDD, of course.

And so lems say, "Where's the problem? We know the Core exists but most 360 owners have the better SKU's."

Here lies the problem: MS corporate vice president, Shane Kim said "that his company is "pushing back" on any publisher that encourages hard drive-enabled games that could not be playable on the Core version."

Well there you go. Devs can't use large capacity, next-gen disc storage, nor can they utilize and HDD. Man, MS must know something about compression that the rest of the world doesn't.

dubvisions

Thanks for another topic regurgitated to death on System Wars.

Show me a single thread that discusses these issues together the way I did.

I'm not talking about the Core being possible discontinued. I'm not talking about PGR4. Get a grip.

Umm, you did this thread yesterday. SO I can show you a single thread, I can show you yours. ;)

Dubvisions with another "beaten to death" 360 bashing thread :roll:

Do you really have nothing more constructive to do with your time ? :?

Dubvisions with another "beaten to death" 360 bashing thread :roll:

Do you really have nothing more constructive to do with your time ? :?

Snugenz

He doesn't and what is even funnier is he claims that this thread is original! :lol: Whatever floats his boat!

[QUOTE="dubvisions"][QUOTE="dommeus"][QUOTE="dubvisions"]

So you have a console without "next gen" disc media. And because of that, you have limited space in which to fit an entire game, a game with HD content. So, a developer needs to take this into account when developing a game. He must figure out how to compress the files on the disc. But if you compress the files, normally, they have to be uncompressed in order to use them. Where do you uncompress them? To the console's HDD, of course.

And so lems say, "Where's the problem? We know the Core exists but most 360 owners have the better SKU's."

Here lies the problem: MS corporate vice president, Shane Kim said "that his company is "pushing back" on any publisher that encourages hard drive-enabled games that could not be playable on the Core version."

Well there you go. Devs can't use large capacity, next-gen disc storage, nor can they utilize and HDD. Man, MS must know something about compression that the rest of the world doesn't.

dommeus

Thanks for another topic regurgitated to death on System Wars.

Show me a single thread that discusses these issues together the way I did.

I'm not talking about the Core being possible discontinued. I'm not talking about PGR4. Get a grip.

Get a grip? I'm not the one coming onto a gaming forum and slating a console because I support another. Maybe you should get a grip. There are more important things in life than slating and praising consoles.

Anyway this topic has been brought up numerous times in light of GTA IV's multiplatform status. No, I'm not going to go look and link examples, because I don't care enough. But you know it's true.

[QUOTE="dommeus"]

Get a grip? I'm not the one coming onto a gaming forum and slating a console because I support another. Maybe you should get a grip. There are more important things in life than slating and praising consoles.

Anyway this topic has been brought up numerous times in light of GTA IV's multiplatform status. No, I'm not going to go look and link examples, because I don't care enough. But you know it's true.

dubvisions

Was anything I said in the original post not true? Tell me. What did I lie about?

You see, truth is truth. It doesn't matter if it comes from a lem, a cow, a sheep, a hermit, or your momma. Its the truth. And, yes, you can try to avoid the subject by attacking me for being a cow, that's cool. it just shows your lack of info, knowledge, or ability to debate.

An, again, NO. This topic has not been discussed in this fashion. No one has discussed (as a topic heading) how both the lack of blu-ray and HDD counter each other and make the other more needed.

Why do you feel the need to 'debate' this?You clearly dislike Microsoft, Xbox and Xbox 360. You clearly like Sony, Playstation 1,2 and 3. So why do you feel the need to come on here and show upother consoles shortcomings? I'm just curious. What's to debate. Where did I show a lack of knowledge or information?

It has been made very clear in nearly every thread on the 360's shortcomings that a lack of 'next-gen' format and HDD mean that games are/will be 'downgraded'. But fanboys on this forum, be they lems, sheep, cows, hermits or your momma repeat the same points ad nauseum every ****ing day I come here, and this is no different. Truth is truth.

Next time be a 'cow' with an original point.

Umm, you did this thread yesterday. SO I can show you a single thread, I can show you yours. ;)

dhjohns

I did? Go into my contributions and see where I did this thread before. I think you'll be hard-pressed to find anything. I have not done this before.

[QUOTE="dhjohns"]

Umm, you did this thread yesterday. SO I can show you a single thread, I can show you yours. ;)

dubvisions

I did? Go into my contributions and see where I did this thread before. I think you'll be hard-pressed to find anything. I have not done this before.

Yes you did. The language isn't exactly the same, but you made a couple of threads yesterday about the 360 and the devs for PGR4 talking about space problems. Just relax. You act like your life depends on the PS3 doing well. It is just a machine man.

Why do you feel the need to 'debate' this?You clearly dislike Microsoft, Xbox and Xbox 360. You clearly like Sony, Playstation 1,2 and 3. So why do you feel the need to come on here and show upother consoles shortcomings? I'm just curious. What's to debate. Where did I show a lack of knowledge or information?

It has been made very clear in nearly every thread on the 360's shortcomings that a lack of 'next-gen' format and HDD mean that games are/will be 'downgraded'. But fanboys on this forum, be they lems, sheep, cows, hermits or your momma repeat the same points ad nauseum every ****ing day I come here, and this is no different. Truth is truth.

Next time be a 'cow' with an original point.

dommeus

First off, System Wars is System Wars. You're going to get repeat info.

Second, why am I bashing the 360? One, because its been one endless PS3 bash after another since its release. Two, because of 360's early release and b.s. hype, the PS3 has had a harder time getting going. Devs, until recently, were concentrating a lot on the 360 due to its install base. And because of that, more 360 hype comes along. All of which hurt the PS3 and possible PS3 titles. So that's why I bash the 360. the more people that get in tune with reality, the better.

And even though there's thread after thread on the 360's shortcomings, lems are still in denial.

If you're using the PGR4 day/night thing as ownage you must be really desperate. I mean come on, they could just release a night pack download at the same time as the game with the night levels they couldn't fit in the original. I mean isn't that the whole point of content downloads,to add stuff they wanted to do butdidn't have time or space to include in the original release? I think the dev is just being whiny.

Besides, Iwould be willing to bet thatthe Blu-Ray read speed problem is going to be just as big as the DVD9 space issue going forward. Caching, like compression, can only get you so far.KodiakGTS

Based off of the recent quote from MS exec. on my original post, they can't count on an HDD for extra content like night scenes. It would alientate the core owners. So either they do and the Core owners are screwed, or they don't and everyone does. Pretty simple.

You're right. Caching and compression will only go so far. But you can't have compression without caching. And you can't have chaching without an HDD.

[QUOTE="dubvisions"][QUOTE="dhjohns"]

Umm, you did this thread yesterday. SO I can show you a single thread, I can show you yours. ;)

dhjohns

I did? Go into my contributions and see where I did this thread before. I think you'll be hard-pressed to find anything. I have not done this before.

Yes you did. The language isn't exactly the same, but you made a couple of threads yesterday about the 360 and the devs for PGR4 talking about space problems. Just relax. You act like your life depends on the PS3 doing well. It is just a machine man.

I made no such thread yesterday. Check your sources. Crap, check my contributions, like I asked you to. I did NOT make a PGR4 thread yesterday. Its fact!!!!!!!!!

So you have a console without "next gen" disc media. And because of that, you have limited space in which to fit an entire game, a game with HD content. So, a developer needs to take this into account when developing a game. He must figure out how to compress the files on the disc. But if you compress the files, normally, they have to be uncompressed in order to use them. Where do you uncompress them? To the console's HDD, of course.

And so lems say, "Where's the problem? We know the Core exists but most 360 owners have the better SKU's."

Here lies the problem: MS corporate vice president, Shane Kim said "that his company is "pushing back" on any publisher that encourages hard drive-enabled games that could not be playable on the Core version."

Well there you go. Devs can't use large capacity, next-gen disc storage, nor can they utilize and HDD. Man, MS must know something about compression that the rest of the world doesn't.

dubvisions

[QUOTE="dommeus"]

Get a grip? I'm not the one coming onto a gaming forum and slating a console because I support another. Maybe you should get a grip. There are more important things in life than slating and praising consoles.

Anyway this topic has been brought up numerous times in light of GTA IV's multiplatform status. No, I'm not going to go look and link examples, because I don't care enough. But you know it's true.

dubvisions

Was anything I said in the original post not true? Tell me. What did I lie about?

You see, truth is truth. It doesn't matter if it comes from a lem, a cow, a sheep, a hermit, or your momma. Its the truth. And, yes, you can try to avoid the subject by attacking me for being a cow, that's cool. it just shows your lack of info, knowledge, or ability to debate.

An, again, NO. This topic has not been discussed in this fashion. No one has discussed (as a topic heading) how both the lack of blu-ray and HDD counter each other and make the other more needed.

i'm sorry man but this topic has been done to death...if you didn't know that, you must not have been on system wars very long

Dubvisions with another "beaten to death" 360 bashing thread :roll:

Do you really have nothing more constructive to do with your time ? :?

Snugenz

I guess this means the end of the "Waitstation" or "MGS4/FFXIII to 360" etc. etc.

No that just doesn't happen in system wars. It's just a fact that lemmings have nothing to counter this argument because of how MS had set themselves up in this position.

The developers already said they have worked around it. Oblivion has a massive world and game play on a single disk and Mass Effect is said to have 70 hours of gameplay. Finally, the PS2 has the same obstacle last generation and it turned out ok for it, right? Xbox had the HD, PS2 did not. This should make it clear that your argument doesn't hold weight, nor does it effect the developers to the point they cant make excellent games on the 360 platform. As far as the Kim quote, If someone told me what to do with my product or else, i'd tell them to take a hike, wouldn't you?Heil68

Hours of gameplay just through the main storyline? You know, Fable could have endless amounts of gameplay but it is still a 10 hour game.

And yes, Rockstar took a hike to Sony and gave them a new IP. I'm sure Shane Kim loved that idea.

[QUOTE="Snugenz"]

Dubvisions with another "beaten to death" 360 bashing thread :roll:

Do you really have nothing more constructive to do with your time ? :?

NobuoMusicMaker

I guess this means the end of the "Waitstation" or "MGS4/FFXIII to 360" etc. etc.

No that just doesn't happen in system wars. It's just a fact that lemmings have nothing to counter this argument because of how MS had set themselves up in this position.

The developers already said they have worked around it. Oblivion has a massive world and game play on a single disk and Mass Effect is said to have 70 hours of gameplay. Finally, the PS2 has the same obstacle last generation and it turned out ok for it, right? Xbox had the HD, PS2 did not. This should make it clear that your argument doesn't hold weight, nor does it effect the developers to the point they cant make excellent games on the 360 platform. As far as the Kim quote, If someone told me what to do with my product or else, i'd tell them to take a hike, wouldn't you?Heil68

Hours of gameplay just through the main storyline? You know, Fable could have endless amounts of gameplay but it is still a 10 hour game.

And yes, Rockstar took a hike to Sony and gave them a new IP. I'm sure Shane Kim loved that idea.

Thank you.

[QUOTE="dommeus"]

Why do you feel the need to 'debate' this?You clearly dislike Microsoft, Xbox and Xbox 360. You clearly like Sony, Playstation 1,2 and 3. So why do you feel the need to come on here and show upother consoles shortcomings? I'm just curious. What's to debate. Where did I show a lack of knowledge or information?

It has been made very clear in nearly every thread on the 360's shortcomings that a lack of 'next-gen' format and HDD mean that games are/will be 'downgraded'. But fanboys on this forum, be they lems, sheep, cows, hermits or your momma repeat the same points ad nauseum every ****ing day I come here, and this is no different. Truth is truth.

Next time be a 'cow' with an original point.

dubvisions

First off, System Wars is System Wars. You're going to get repeat info.

Second, why am I bashing the 360? One, because its been one endless PS3 bash after another since its release. Two, because of 360's early release and b.s. hype, the PS3 has had a harder time getting going. Devs, until recently, were concentrating a lot on the 360 due to its install base. And because of that, more 360 hype comes along. All of which hurt the PS3 and possible PS3 titles. So that's why I bash the 360. the more people that get in tune with reality, the better.

And even though there's thread after thread on the 360's shortcomings, lems are still in denial.

If you're using the PGR4 day/night thing as ownage you must be really desperate. I mean come on, they could just release a night pack download at the same time as the game with the night levels they couldn't fit in the original. I mean isn't that the whole point of content downloads,to add stuff they wanted to do butdidn't have time or space to include in the original release? I think the dev is just being whiny.

Besides, Iwould be willing to bet thatthe Blu-Ray read speed problem is going to be just as big as the DVD9 space issue going forward. Caching, like compression, can only get you so far.KodiakGTS

Based off of the recent quote from MS exec. on my original post, they can't count on an HDD for extra content like night scenes. It would alientate the core owners. So either they do and the Core owners are screwed, or they don't and everyone does. Pretty simple.

You're right. Caching and compression will only go so far. But you can't have compression without caching. And you can't have chaching without an HDD.

Newsflash : EVERY FANBOY IS IN DENIAL. That's what makes a fanboy. Devotion to a machine. Devotion to a brand. Denial of their shortcomings. Bragging about their advantages.

Ps. Good debate. Basically your getting cranky because your console isn't winning. Try obsessing about something that actually matters.

Pps. You're in 'denial' if you think you aren't regurgitating the same **** as every other Playstation 3 fanboy does. EVERY. ****ING. DAY. As you said, this is System Wars after all...

[QUOTE="Snugenz"]

Dubvisions with another "beaten to death" 360 bashing thread :roll:

Do you really have nothing more constructive to do with your time ? :?

NobuoMusicMaker

I guess this means the end of the "Waitstation" or "MGS4/FFXIII to 360" etc. etc.

No that just doesn't happen in system wars. It's just a fact that lemmings have nothing to counter this argument because of how MS had set themselves up in this position.

The developers already said they have worked around it. Oblivion has a massive world and game play on a single disk and Mass Effect is said to have 70 hours of gameplay. Finally, the PS2 has the same obstacle last generation and it turned out ok for it, right? Xbox had the HD, PS2 did not. This should make it clear that your argument doesn't hold weight, nor does it effect the developers to the point they cant make excellent games on the 360 platform. As far as the Kim quote, If someone told me what to do with my product or else, i'd tell them to take a hike, wouldn't you?Heil68

Hours of gameplay just through the main storyline? You know, Fable could have endless amounts of gameplay but it is still a 10 hour game.

And yes, Rockstar took a hike to Sony and gave them a new IP. I'm sure Shane Kim loved that idea.

Even if some forumites claim that this thread content is "beaten to death". I'm glad you posted :). I never saw that story you linked nor did I (and alot of others for that matter) realize the plight MS will be facing.Episode_Eve

Thank you, sir. That's the point I was trying to make about originality. Yes, this subject has been touched on before in different ways. There have been threads about certain games not fitting on DVD, there's been threads on whether blu-ray is needed, there's been threads about the core staying or going, but there haven't been many threads, if any,to put them together in this fashion. Nor have I seen one with the link I read THIS MORNING.

I'm still waiting for dhjohns toprovethat I made this thread yesterday.

So you have a console without "next gen" disc media. And because of that, you have limited space in which to fit an entire game, a game with HD content. So, a developer needs to take this into account when developing a game. He must figure out how to compress the files on the disc. But if you compress the files, normally, they have to be uncompressed in order to use them. Where do you uncompress them? To the console's HDD, of course.

And so lems say, "Where's the problem? We know the Core exists but most 360 owners have the better SKU's."

Here lies the problem: MS corporate vice president, Shane Kim said "that his company is "pushing back" on any publisher that encourages hard drive-enabled games that could not be playable on the Core version."

Well there you go. Devs can't use large capacity, next-gen disc storage, nor can they utilize and HDD. Man, MS must know something about compression that the rest of the world doesn't.

dubvisions

Look no to sound mean man, but talking about the DVD9 is just getting old. It's the same thing over and over again. We get the point, less storage, less content, its that simple. This discussion is getting just as bad as metal gear solid, it gets to a point I don't even want to come on these forumns.

Look no to sound mean man, but talking about the DVD9 is just getting old. It's the same thing over and over again. We get the point, less storage, less content, its that simple. This discussion is getting just as bad as metal gear solid, it gets to a point I don't even want to come on these forumns.

xscrapzx

it isn't as simple as just the DVD-9 issue. My thread is about how both the DVD and no HDD are, and most certainly, will, be an issue for developers.

[QUOTE="Episode_Eve"]Even if some forumites claim that this thread content is "beaten to death". I'm glad you posted :). I never saw that story you linked nor did I (and alot of others for that matter) realize the plight MS will be facing.dubvisions

Thank you, sir. That's the point I was trying to make about originality. Yes, this subject has been touched on before in different ways. There have been threads about certain games not fitting on DVD, there's been threads on whether blu-ray is needed, there's been threads about the core staying or going, but there haven't been many threads, if any,to put them together in this fashion. Nor have I seen one with the link I read THIS MORNING.

I'm still waiting for dhjohns toprovethat I made this thread yesterday.

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"]

Look no to sound mean man, but talking about the DVD9 is just getting old. It's the same thing over and over again. We get the point, less storage, less content, its that simple. This discussion is getting just as bad as metal gear solid, it gets to a point I don't even want to come on these forumns.

dubvisions

it isn't as simple as just the DVD-9 issue. My thread is about how both the DVD and no HDD are, and most certainly, will, be an issue for developers.

Ya so what its not like we or the consumer does not understand it. Of course having no hard drive you will not be able to save games or get content off live. I mean we all understand this ence the fact why I dont have a core. I mean I think everyone on gamespot understands that the core with no hard drive makes no sense.

I'd love for cows to explain what an HDD allows devs to do other than decrease load times.

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"][QUOTE="Snugenz"]

Dubvisions with another "beaten to death" 360 bashing thread :roll:

Do you really have nothing more constructive to do with your time ? :?

Heil68

I guess this means the end of the "Waitstation" or "MGS4/FFXIII to 360" etc. etc.

No that just doesn't happen in system wars. It's just a fact that lemmings have nothing to counter this argument because of how MS had set themselves up in this position.

The developers already said they have worked around it. Oblivion has a massive world and game play on a single disk and Mass Effect is said to have 70 hours of gameplay. Finally, the PS2 has the same obstacle last generation and it turned out ok for it, right? Xbox had the HD, PS2 did not. This should make it clear that your argument doesn't hold weight, nor does it effect the developers to the point they cant make excellent games on the 360 platform. As far as the Kim quote, If someone told me what to do with my product or else, i'd tell them to take a hike, wouldn't you?Heil68

Hours of gameplay just through the main storyline? You know, Fable could have endless amounts of gameplay but it is still a 10 hour game.

And yes, Rockstar took a hike to Sony and gave them a new IP. I'm sure Shane Kim loved that idea.

I'd love for cows to explain what an HDD allows devs to do other than decrease load times.

LosDaddie

I'd love for you to acually read my post before commenting so blindly. What happens when you take a PC game on DVD and install it on your PC? Ituncompresses the files to ulitlize them on the HDD. Same thing with games on consoles.

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"][QUOTE="Snugenz"]

Dubvisions with another "beaten to death" 360 bashing thread :roll:

Do you really have nothing more constructive to do with your time ? :?

Stall0wn3d

I guess this means the end of the "Waitstation" or "MGS4/FFXIII to 360" etc. etc.

No that just doesn't happen in system wars. It's just a fact that lemmings have nothing to counter this argument because of how MS had set themselves up in this position.

The developers already said they have worked around it. Oblivion has a massive world and game play on a single disk and Mass Effect is said to have 70 hours of gameplay. Finally, the PS2 has the same obstacle last generation and it turned out ok for it, right? Xbox had the HD, PS2 did not. This should make it clear that your argument doesn't hold weight, nor does it effect the developers to the point they cant make excellent games on the 360 platform. As far as the Kim quote, If someone told me what to do with my product or else, i'd tell them to take a hike, wouldn't you?Heil68

Hours of gameplay just through the main storyline? You know, Fable could have endless amounts of gameplay but it is still a 10 hour game.

And yes, Rockstar took a hike to Sony and gave them a new IP. I'm sure Shane Kim loved that idea.

[QUOTE="Episode_Eve"]Even if some forumites claim that this thread content is "beaten to death". I'm glad you posted :). I never saw that story you linked nor did I (and alot of others for that matter) realize the plight MS will be facing.dubvisions

Thank you, sir. That's the point I was trying to make about originality. Yes, this subject has been touched on before in different ways. There have been threads about certain games not fitting on DVD, there's been threads on whether blu-ray is needed, there's been threads about the core staying or going, but there haven't been many threads, if any,to put them together in this fashion. Nor have I seen one with the link I read THIS MORNING.

I'm still waiting for dhjohns toprovethat I made this thread yesterday.

You will be waiting a long time, because I am not going to bother to look up threads. There were several threads yesterday talking about this. You were all over those threads spouting the same stuff you are here. Is this an issue? Yes. Is it a fatal death blow to the 360? Hardly. And don't act like you are the first cow to discover or inform us of the 360 using DVD and not havong an HD in all SKUs. These threads have been going for quite some time. These threads got more ammunition from the devs of PGR4 making the comment they did. Wake me up when you have some new insight please.

[QUOTE="dubvisions"]

[QUOTE="Episode_Eve"]Even if some forumites claim that this thread content is "beaten to death". I'm glad you posted :). I never saw that story you linked nor did I (and alot of others for that matter) realize the plight MS will be facing.Heil68

Thank you, sir. That's the point I was trying to make about originality. Yes, this subject has been touched on before in different ways. There have been threads about certain games not fitting on DVD, there's been threads on whether blu-ray is needed, there's been threads about the core staying or going, but there haven't been many threads, if any,to put them together in this fashion. Nor have I seen one with the link I read THIS MORNING.

I'm still waiting for dhjohns toprovethat I made this thread yesterday.

Both RFOM and Motorstorm are ~15GB, so yes they did take advantage of BD.

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="dubvisions"]

[QUOTE="Episode_Eve"]Even if some forumites claim that this thread content is "beaten to death". I'm glad you posted :). I never saw that story you linked nor did I (and alot of others for that matter) realize the plight MS will be facing.skektek

Thank you, sir. That's the point I was trying to make about originality. Yes, this subject has been touched on before in different ways. There have been threads about certain games not fitting on DVD, there's been threads on whether blu-ray is needed, there's been threads about the core staying or going, but there haven't been many threads, if any,to put them together in this fashion. Nor have I seen one with the link I read THIS MORNING.

I'm still waiting for dhjohns toprovethat I made this thread yesterday.

Both RFOM and Motorstorm are ~15GB, so yes they did take advantage of BD.

:roll: Not this again. That is uncompressed data. Sony and MS are taking different approaches. The best for us consumers would proabably be a split between the two; however, please don't be so ignorant to use RFOM and MS as examples of huge games. :lol: