The REAL MS mess!!!

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="dubvisions"]

[QUOTE="Episode_Eve"]Even if some forumites claim that this thread content is "beaten to death". I'm glad you posted :). I never saw that story you linked nor did I (and alot of others for that matter) realize the plight MS will be facing.skektek

Thank you, sir. That's the point I was trying to make about originality. Yes, this subject has been touched on before in different ways. There have been threads about certain games not fitting on DVD, there's been threads on whether blu-ray is needed, there's been threads about the core staying or going, but there haven't been many threads, if any,to put them together in this fashion. Nor have I seen one with the link I read THIS MORNING.

I'm still waiting for dhjohns toprovethat I made this thread yesterday.

Both RFOM and Motorstorm are ~15GB, so yes they did take advantage of BD.

The developers already said they have worked around it. Oblivion has a massive world and game play on a single disk and Mass Effect is said to have 70 hours of gameplay. Finally, the PS2 has the same obstacle last generation and it turned out ok for it, right? Xbox had the HD, PS2 did not. This should make it clear that your argument doesn't hold weight, nor does it effect the developers to the point they cant make excellent games on the 360 platform. As far as the Kim quote, If someone told me what to do with my product or else, i'd tell them to take a hike, wouldn't you?Heil68

The PS2 was still last gen, you can't compare the games from this gen to those that appeared on the PS2. How is it that a next gen console can be released with last gen problems? Face it Microsoft released a vastly inferior console so that it could be released first. Do you really think Oblivion and Mass Effect are the biggest games that are going to come out this gen? Microsoft doesnt care if all the content cant fit ina game, not when they can make even more money by selling itas extra contentover live.Now it wontlimit developers to the point that they cant make excellent games just that it limits the developer as far as total content is conserned.

To everyone complaining if the topic has been done before and you dont want to discuss it againdont post, ignore it and move on.

You will be waiting a long time, because I am not going to bother to look up threads. There were several threads yesterday talking about this. You were all over those threads spouting the same stuff you are here. Is this an issue? Yes. Is it a fatal death blow to the 360? Hardly. And don't act like you are the first cow to discover or inform us of the 360 using DVD and not havong an HD in all SKUs. These threads have been going for quite some time. These threads got more ammunition from the devs of PGR4 making the comment they did. Wake me up when you have some new insight please.

dhjohns

Darn right you aren't going to look. You get owned if you did. You said I made the threads and now you back out. Weak.

What thread had the quote from the MS exec about requesting devs not to count out the core? (another one you'll back out of)

There are hundreds of repeat tpoics. But when new info comes in, it gets posted. Pretty simple.

[QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="dubvisions"]

[QUOTE="Episode_Eve"]Even if some forumites claim that this thread content is "beaten to death". I'm glad you posted :). I never saw that story you linked nor did I (and alot of others for that matter) realize the plight MS will be facing.Heil68

Thank you, sir. That's the point I was trying to make about originality. Yes, this subject has been touched on before in different ways. There have been threads about certain games not fitting on DVD, there's been threads on whether blu-ray is needed, there's been threads about the core staying or going, but there haven't been many threads, if any,to put them together in this fashion. Nor have I seen one with the link I read THIS MORNING.

I'm still waiting for dhjohns toprovethat I made this thread yesterday.

Both RFOM and Motorstorm are ~15GB, so yes they did take advantage of BD.

Sorry if i DP,hasn't it been stated thatthe PS3 version of Dirt looks and plays better then its 360 counterpart? I thought Dirt was one of the few multiplatsconsidered better on the PS3, even if it isnt released yet.

[QUOTE="dhjohns"]

You will be waiting a long time, because I am not going to bother to look up threads. There were several threads yesterday talking about this. You were all over those threads spouting the same stuff you are here. Is this an issue? Yes. Is it a fatal death blow to the 360? Hardly. And don't act like you are the first cow to discover or inform us of the 360 using DVD and not havong an HD in all SKUs. These threads have been going for quite some time. These threads got more ammunition from the devs of PGR4 making the comment they did. Wake me up when you have some new insight please.

dubvisions

Darn right you aren't going to look. You get owned if you did. You said I made the threads and now you back out. Weak.

What thread had the quote from the MS exec about requesting devs not to count out the core? (another one you'll back out of)

There are hundreds of repeat tpoics. But when new info comes in, it gets posted. Pretty simple.

Don't think so. See unlike you, I have better things to do (obviously not too much as I am still here responding :lol: ) than look up threads. I know you were posting on those threads yesterday concerning this same issue. I am not backing out of anything. The whole point is that you are taking this way too seriously and repeating and rehashing the same old statements. If Sony isn't paying you, I would be miffed if I were you. You take this stuff so personally. You are beating a dead horse here. And, yes I have seen the quote from the MS exec before.

I just think this is a subject that needs to go to the graveyard. I mean it just gets old. This is all I see from PS3 fans.xscrapzx

Right. And the "PS3 has no games", "Teh power of the cell", "All multiplats look better on 360", "GTA4 exclusive content only on 360" don't get old?

Its all the same.

[QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="dubvisions"]

[QUOTE="Episode_Eve"]Even if some forumites claim that this thread content is "beaten to death". I'm glad you posted :). I never saw that story you linked nor did I (and alot of others for that matter) realize the plight MS will be facing.dhjohns

Thank you, sir. That's the point I was trying to make about originality. Yes, this subject has been touched on before in different ways. There have been threads about certain games not fitting on DVD, there's been threads on whether blu-ray is needed, there's been threads about the core staying or going, but there haven't been many threads, if any,to put them together in this fashion. Nor have I seen one with the link I read THIS MORNING.

I'm still waiting for dhjohns toprovethat I made this thread yesterday.

Both RFOM and Motorstorm are ~15GB, so yes they did take advantage of BD.

:roll: Not this again. That is uncompressed data. Sony and MS are taking different approaches. The best for us consumers would proabably be a split between the two; however, please don't be so ignorant to use RFOM and MS as examples of huge games. :lol:

[QUOTE="Stall0wn3d"][QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"][QUOTE="Snugenz"]

Dubvisions with another "beaten to death" 360 bashing thread :roll:

Do you really have nothing more constructive to do with your time ? :?

Heil68

I guess this means the end of the "Waitstation" or "MGS4/FFXIII to 360" etc. etc.

No that just doesn't happen in system wars. It's just a fact that lemmings have nothing to counter this argument because of how MS had set themselves up in this position.

The developers already said they have worked around it. Oblivion has a massive world and game play on a single disk and Mass Effect is said to have 70 hours of gameplay. Finally, the PS2 has the same obstacle last generation and it turned out ok for it, right? Xbox had the HD, PS2 did not. This should make it clear that your argument doesn't hold weight, nor does it effect the developers to the point they cant make excellent games on the 360 platform. As far as the Kim quote, If someone told me what to do with my product or else, i'd tell them to take a hike, wouldn't you?Heil68

Hours of gameplay just through the main storyline? You know, Fable could have endless amounts of gameplay but it is still a 10 hour game.

And yes, Rockstar took a hike to Sony and gave them a new IP. I'm sure Shane Kim loved that idea.

[QUOTE="dhjohns"][QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="dubvisions"]

Thank you, sir. That's the point I was trying to make about originality. Yes, this subject has been touched on before in different ways. There have been threads about certain games not fitting on DVD, there's been threads on whether blu-ray is needed, there's been threads about the core staying or going, but there haven't been many threads, if any,to put them together in this fashion. Nor have I seen one with the link I read THIS MORNING.

I'm still waiting for dhjohns toprovethat I made this thread yesterday.

skektek

Both RFOM and Motorstorm are ~15GB, so yes they did take advantage of BD.

:roll: Not this again. That is uncompressed data. Sony and MS are taking different approaches. The best for us consumers would proabably be a split between the two; however, please don't be so ignorant to use RFOM and MS as examples of huge games. :lol:

Not a tiger, thanks. And I was simply pointing out that you are wrong. RFOM and MS (which you did bring up! contradiction FTL!) has data which is not compressed. Thus, the size you quoted. These games could be done on the 360 with a single DVD, the data would be compressed. So no they really don't take advantage of BR's space. Thanks for playing.

Not a tiger, thanks. And I was simply pointing out that you are wrong. RFOM and MS (which you did bring up! contradiction FTL!) has data which is not compressed. Thus, the size you quoted. These games could be done on the 360 with a single DVD, the data would be compressed. So no they really don't take advantage of BR's space. Thanks for playing.

dhjohns

Part of the reason for the uncompression on PS3 titles is the uncompresssed, HD, PCM audio. Can that be done on DVD?

I'm pretty sure I havent missed any game play to a game being a single disk, you havent either. Besides GTA and MaxPayne, R* has crap for games. As a PS3 owner that idea doesnt excite me..at allHeil68

Here's something I posted yesterday:

Man, Rockstar must have gotten real lucky with GTA. With how horrible they are and how they did State of emergency, I don't see how they have any juice left.

But, man!! I bet they put the most energy, all of their brain power, gotten more secret powers to improve on their poor skills, and made that killer extra content for GTA4, exclusively on the 360!!!!!dubvisions

The fact is that the game cannot rely on a standard HDD on the 360.However, if a 360 does have a HDD, the game can still cache data on the HDD.Thats why there is a noticeable difference in the load times of Oblivion on the core and premium 360s.Thats also why the PS3 version of Oblivion doesnt load noticeably faster than the 360 version, even though it has a standard HDDwhocares4peace

how can 360's version not have lot slower load times, since the PS3 has NO load times?

yes MS totally screwed up with rushing the 360 out

and yes lair has eye candy but they wont get $60 from me just to fly a stupid dragon

Zam_basic

So you have a console without "next gen" disc media. And because of that, you have limited space in which to fit an entire game, a game with HD content. So, a developer needs to take this into account when developing a game. He must figure out how to compress the files on the disc. But if you compress the files, normally, they have to be uncompressed in order to use them. Where do you uncompress them? To the console's HDD, of course.

And so lems say, "Where's the problem? We know the Core exists but most 360 owners have the better SKU's."

Here lies the problem: MS corporate vice president, Shane Kim said "that his company is "pushing back" on any publisher that encourages hard drive-enabled games that could not be playable on the Core version."

Well there you go. Devs can't use large capacity, next-gen disc storage, nor can they utilize and HDD. Man, MS must know something about compression that the rest of the world doesn't.

dubvisions

very very true. blue ray for the sort-of-win!

[QUOTE="dhjohns"]

You will be waiting a long time, because I am not going to bother to look up threads. There were several threads yesterday talking about this. You were all over those threads spouting the same stuff you are here. Is this an issue? Yes. Is it a fatal death blow to the 360? Hardly. And don't act like you are the first cow to discover or inform us of the 360 using DVD and not havong an HD in all SKUs. These threads have been going for quite some time. These threads got more ammunition from the devs of PGR4 making the comment they did. Wake me up when you have some new insight please.

dubvisions

Darn right you aren't going to look. You get owned if you did. You said I made the threads and now you back out. Weak.

What thread had the quote from the MS exec about requesting devs not to count out the core? (another one you'll back out of)

There are hundreds of repeat tpoics. But when new info comes in, it gets posted. Pretty simple.

I think it's about time to get back on topic and discuss the mess MS did get themselves on still be betting on DVDs when we know that sooner rather than later, they will be useless for games...

Better compression methods uses more processing power to be decompressed, so if you fit a 15GB game in a 9GB disc, you'll be wasting a lot of processing power that could be directed towards AI, physics, sounds, gfx, etc. Also, You'll be limited in using textures and audio data up to a certain size. Games using BD won't be limited by any of these issues. Putting big worlds in a disc isn't that difficult. Big worlds and levels are not what takes space. What takes huge amounts of space are big worlds with great HD content, with higher resolutions/quality than was previously used by any games. And lots of dialogues, cut-scenes, etc.

[QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="dhjohns"][QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="dubvisions"]

Thank you, sir. That's the point I was trying to make about originality. Yes, this subject has been touched on before in different ways. There have been threads about certain games not fitting on DVD, there's been threads on whether blu-ray is needed, there's been threads about the core staying or going, but there haven't been many threads, if any,to put them together in this fashion. Nor have I seen one with the link I read THIS MORNING.

I'm still waiting for dhjohns toprovethat I made this thread yesterday.

dhjohns

Both RFOM and Motorstorm are ~15GB, so yes they did take advantage of BD.

:roll: Not this again. That is uncompressed data. Sony and MS are taking different approaches. The best for us consumers would proabably be a split between the two; however, please don't be so ignorant to use RFOM and MS as examples of huge games. :lol:

Not a tiger, thanks. And I was simply pointing out that you are wrong. RFOM and MS (which you did bring up! contradiction FTL!) has data which is not compressed. Thus, the size you quoted. These games could be done on the 360 with a single DVD, the data would be compressed. So no they really don't take advantage of BR's space. Thanks for playing.

Heil68 brought up RFOM and Motorstorm not me. How could you not realize that? You quoted him twice!

You can attempt to trivialize all you want but the fact remains that the space was used.

[QUOTE="dhjohns"]

Not a tiger, thanks. And I was simply pointing out that you are wrong. RFOM and MS (which you did bring up! contradiction FTL!) has data which is not compressed. Thus, the size you quoted. These games could be done on the 360 with a single DVD, the data would be compressed. So no they really don't take advantage of BR's space. Thanks for playing.

skektek

Heil68 brought up RFOM and Motorstorm not me. How could you not realize that? You quoted him twice!

You can attempt to trivialize all you want but the fact remains that the space was used.

Don't worry about it. Dhjohns has a thing or two to learn about using facts and paying attention when entering a debate. Instead, he likes to throw unfounded accusations out there to start crap. He's a clown.

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="Stall0wn3d"][QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"][QUOTE="Snugenz"]

Dubvisions with another "beaten to death" 360 bashing thread :roll:

Do you really have nothing more constructive to do with your time ? :?

Stall0wn3d

I guess this means the end of the "Waitstation" or "MGS4/FFXIII to 360" etc. etc.

No that just doesn't happen in system wars. It's just a fact that lemmings have nothing to counter this argument because of how MS had set themselves up in this position.

The developers already said they have worked around it. Oblivion has a massive world and game play on a single disk and Mass Effect is said to have 70 hours of gameplay. Finally, the PS2 has the same obstacle last generation and it turned out ok for it, right? Xbox had the HD, PS2 did not. This should make it clear that your argument doesn't hold weight, nor does it effect the developers to the point they cant make excellent games on the 360 platform. As far as the Kim quote, If someone told me what to do with my product or else, i'd tell them to take a hike, wouldn't you?Heil68

Hours of gameplay just through the main storyline? You know, Fable could have endless amounts of gameplay but it is still a 10 hour game.

And yes, Rockstar took a hike to Sony and gave them a new IP. I'm sure Shane Kim loved that idea.

[QUOTE="Heil68"]I'm pretty sure I havent missed any game play to a game being a single disk, you havent either. Besides GTA and MaxPayne, R* has crap for games. As a PS3 owner that idea doesnt excite me..at alldubvisions

Man, Rockstar must have gotten real lucky with GTA. With how horrible they are and how they did State of emergency, I don't see how they have any juice left.But, man!! I bet they put the most energy, all of their brain power, gotten more secret powers to improve on their poor skills, and made that killer extra content for GTA4, exclusively on the 360!!!!!dubvisions

[QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="dhjohns"]

Not a tiger, thanks. And I was simply pointing out that you are wrong. RFOM and MS (which you did bring up! contradiction FTL!) has data which is not compressed. Thus, the size you quoted. These games could be done on the 360 with a single DVD, the data would be compressed. So no they really don't take advantage of BR's space. Thanks for playing.

dubvisions

Heil68 brought up RFOM and Motorstorm not me. How could you not realize that? You quoted him twice!

You can attempt to trivialize all you want but the fact remains that the space was used.

Don't worry about it. Dhjohns has a thing or two to learn about using facts and paying attention when entering a debate. Instead, he likes to throw unfounded accusations out there to start crap. He's a clown.

Excuse me? I point out what zealot fans you are of a corporation that could care less about you and the best you can do is resort to personal comments? :lol: Don't go there dub. Stick to what you do best, making unfounded bias comments about the 360.

[QUOTE="FatalDomain"]

Welcome to E3 05..... this may be a new article but this is 100% old news to the gaming realm. And its obvious MS and its supporting devs must know alot about compression which is why the 360 has the amount of successful HD titles available for it. But like I said before, old news...

Move along fanboys, nothing to see here.....

Game On...

dubvisions

Why don't we take a look at past generations, shall we? In prior gens, the game's that came out at the beginning of the gen were dwarfed by the games that came out later. This is due to devs figuring out how to better utilize the current technology.

Yes, 360 has some great titles. there's no denying that. But how will the titles improve when you're using technologies that are from last gen? What will happen when devs start to utilize blu-ray (or HD-DVD, for that matter) and HDD's more and more? Will the 360 be able to aid in this?

360 reminds me a whole lot about dreamcast, in the good way not as "is gonna die soon" but in terms of gaming. they have the best, i don't care what blueray brings to the table, aslong as they make very fun, hot games for 360 they will get purchase from me. i wouldn't had payed 600 bucks for a 360 though, noway in hell.

So you have a console without "next gen" disc media. And because of that, you have limited space in which to fit an entire game, a game with HD content. So, a developer needs to take this into account when developing a game. He must figure out how to compress the files on the disc. But if you compress the files, normally, they have to be uncompressed in order to use them. Where do you uncompress them? To the console's HDD, of course.

And so lems say, "Where's the problem? We know the Core exists but most 360 owners have the better SKU's."

Here lies the problem: MS corporate vice president, Shane Kim said "that his company is "pushing back" on any publisher that encourages hard drive-enabled games that could not be playable on the Core version."

Well there you go. Devs can't use large capacity, next-gen disc storage, nor can they utilize and HDD. Man, MS must know something about compression that the rest of the world doesn't.

dubvisions

the fact that 99% of multiplat games look/play better on the 360 should really tell you the entire "true next gen format is needed" routine is absolutely moot.....

and yes..i'm positive MS knows a few things about compression you don't...;)

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"]I just think this is a subject that needs to go to the graveyard. I mean it just gets old. This is all I see from PS3 fans.dubvisions

Right. And the "PS3 has no games", "Teh power of the cell", "All multiplats look better on 360", "GTA4 exclusive content only on 360" don't get old?

Its all the same.

No they definately do. The bottom line is I see more threads about the DVD 9 with the upcoming games such as mass effect, and the stuff about GTA4 being watered down on the PS3 because of this. I mean its just a tiring subject that everyone understands. I just don't see a need to keep making threads about the DVD 9, and the no hard drive in core. Who cares? Half the people in here don't have a core, and by what MASS EFFECT is showing us, a lot can still be done on a regular dual layer DVD. All I have to say is that if you want to talk about media, why don't you make a topic about how have HDDVD and blu-ray do nothing but confuse the hell out of consumers, and rip off consumers in the end? Instead of sitting here complaining about a media such as DVD9 that sells a hell a lot better in the market then blu-ray or HDDVD.

the fact that 99% of multiplat games look/play better on the 360 should really tell you the entire "true next gen format is needed" routine is absolutely moot.....

and yes..i'm positive MS knows a few things about compression you don't...;)

tango90101

First 99% is a stretch. But I'll give it to you.

But what does this say about the PS3's or the 360's power? What does it say about blu-ray? What does it say about HDD? Nothing. All it says is that 360 HAD the biggest user base. And threads, like this one, are hear to prevent this from happening futher.

[QUOTE="tango90101"]

the fact that 99% of multiplat games look/play better on the 360 should really tell you the entire "true next gen format is needed" routine is absolutely moot.....

and yes..i'm positive MS knows a few things about compression you don't...;)

dubvisions

First 99% is a stretch. But I'll give it to you.

But what does this say about the PS3's or the 360's power? What does it say about blu-ray? What does it say about HDD? Nothing. All it says is that 360 HAD the biggest user base. And threads, like this one, are hear to prevent this from happening futher.

if "true next gen format" was needed this wouldn't be happening....

The fact is that the game cannot rely on a standard HDD on the 360.However, if a 360 does have a HDD, the game can still cache data on the HDD.Thats why there is a noticeable difference in the load times of Oblivion on the core and premium 360s.Thats also why the PS3 version of Oblivion doesnt load noticeably faster than the 360 version, even though it has a standard HDDwhocares4peace

Do you have a PS3? I think not, otherwise you would know that oblivion loads at least 10 seconds faster (or ever faster) than the 360 version. The Xbox360 uses disk streaming, not the HDD. The HDD is useless for a cache because of the very limited space. Most developers don't even use the HDD as a cache on the 360. The 360 has HD graphics, with the technology of the PS2 to run their games.

[QUOTE="Snugenz"]

Dubvisions with another "beaten to death" 360 bashing thread :roll:

Do you really have nothing more constructive to do with your time ? :?

NobuoMusicMaker

I guess this means the end of the "Waitstation" or "MGS4/FFXIII to 360" etc. etc.

No that just doesn't happen in system wars. It's just a fact that lemmings have nothing to counter this argument because of how MS had set themselves up in this position.

I've never once made an MGS4/FFXIII to 360 thread nor did i ever call the PS3 the waitstation, know why i havnt done these things ?, because i own a PS3 , and think its an excellent system and have absolutely nothing against any console or manufacturer really.

But cows like yourself and Dubvisions do irritate me with your ability to only see the good sides of one console and the bad of another (this also applies when lemmings/sheep and hermits do it aswell).

Actually, it's a bit of mess for all developers: developers are pushed to make multiplat games to recover costs (or maximise revenue) but due to the differences in those two high cost platforms (PS3 and 360) such as hdd capacity and optical drive speeds, they're being forced to pick sides or having to sacrifice freedom of development (to bring it out on two platforms).Pangster007

Agreed.

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"][QUOTE="Snugenz"]

Dubvisions with another "beaten to death" 360 bashing thread :roll:

Do you really have nothing more constructive to do with your time ? :?

Snugenz

I guess this means the end of the "Waitstation" or "MGS4/FFXIII to 360" etc. etc.

No that just doesn't happen in system wars. It's just a fact that lemmings have nothing to counter this argument because of how MS had set themselves up in this position.

I've never once made an MGS4/FFXIII to 360 thread nor did i ever call the PS3 the waitstation, know why i havnt done these things ?, because i own a PS3 , and think its an excellent system and have absolutely nothing against any console or manufacturer really.

But cows like yourself and Dubvisions do irritate me with your ability to only see the good sides of one console and the bad of another (this also applies when lemmings/sheep and hermits do it aswell).

so, could you care to show us the bad sides of the PS3? as far as i know it has only one: the price. but sony is taking care of that, really faster than MS does with it's products...

I love Sony too muchmazdaspeed-rx8

damn you and your name, its going to bother the hell out of me

one questiuon though, have you even played Forza 2?

and why do you have a mustang in your sig?

unless I am really off and thats an RX3 or soemthing

so until this gen devs had no real problems making great games with dvd9 and what not. now there getting lazy because of blu ray. the next gen if ms is going to make a console it will have the new dvd format standard. but dvd9 u can still get great games. and what is wrong with multiple discs.

DEVS ARE GETTING LAZY (ubisoft, ea) are probably the biggest ones.

so until this gen devs had no real problems making great games with dvd9 and what not. now there getting lazy because of blu ray. the next gen if ms is going to make a console it will have the new dvd format standard. but dvd9 u can still get great games. and what is wrong with multiple discs.

DEVS ARE GETTING LAZY (ubisoft, ea) are probably the biggest ones.

xbox360isgr8t

Right. Devs should have no problems making higher quality games that are HD, bigger, and more involved than ever before on the technology from last gen. No problem there at all.

There are more important things in life than slating and praising consoles.

dommeus

True, but you're here, aren't you?

[QUOTE="dommeus"]

There are more important things in life than slating and praising consoles.

smooothe

True, but you're here, aren't you?

He's in a long line of whiners in here today. I guess when you have no real response you go back to that same ol', "This is stupid, you stupid head", type of routine.

[QUOTE="Snugenz"][QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"][QUOTE="Snugenz"]

Dubvisions with another "beaten to death" 360 bashing thread :roll:

Do you really have nothing more constructive to do with your time ? :?

SambaLele

I guess this means the end of the "Waitstation" or "MGS4/FFXIII to 360" etc. etc.

No that just doesn't happen in system wars. It's just a fact that lemmings have nothing to counter this argument because of how MS had set themselves up in this position.

I've never once made an MGS4/FFXIII to 360 thread nor did i ever call the PS3 the waitstation, know why i havnt done these things ?, because i own a PS3 , and think its an excellent system and have absolutely nothing against any console or manufacturer really.

But cows like yourself and Dubvisions do irritate me with your ability to only see the good sides of one console and the bad of another (this also applies when lemmings/sheep and hermits do it aswell).

so, could you care to show us the bad sides of the PS3? as far as i know it has only one: the price. but sony is taking care of that, really faster than MS does with it's products...

The PS3 has its downsides, but i dont like to dwell on the negatives.

But if you really must know my opinion on PS3's downsides (from my own personal experience), PSN would have to be the one of the biggest, compared to XBLM its clunky, doesnt offer nearly as much content as XBLM and the European store gets alot less content than the other continents. The XMB, it should be available while your doing anything (even playing games) as i love listening to my own music while playing SP games. Friend, the consistant friends list is one of the best features of Xbox Live and PSN really needs it. (Of course Home will hopefully take care of most of these issues so thats awesome, and if the reports on XMB 2.0 update are correct we'll have the XMB during games which is awesome).

My biggest problem with my PS3 is lack of games now, i really wanna buy games for my PS3 because i really do love the console but there's just no must buys out there that i havnt got and played to death yet (NGS and VF5 in my case), i've gotten The Darkness recently but i went with the 360 version because after playing both it really is the better version.

Oh another thing, Backwards compatability is horrible on the PS3, so far i've tried FFX, FFXII and they both look better on the PS2. (European PS3's dont have the emotion engine).

Now does that anwser your question, or would you like to hear what i think is bad about the 360, Wii, Amiga CD32 ???

[QUOTE="Little_Dong"]Lair is going to flopToScA-

lol! That was so random and made me burst out laughing:lol:

Back on topic though..I will never understand what went through MS' head when they decided to not go with a standard HDD on ALL X360 consoles. They were fully aware that the limited DVD storage would hold back some developers; yet they still went on with an Xbox 360 SKU without a HDD. This is going to boggle me for the rest of the generation...

i agree.

hint of arrogance from MS?