The SHAMELESS HYPOCRISY surrounding the subject of MOTION CONTROLS

For two years we had to hear how terrible Nintendo was for coming up with the idea to bring motion controls to home consoles, selling out going casual ect. but when MS and Sony decide to shamelessly copy Nintendo's idea (rather than announce new first party games for their platform at E3), suddenly everyone's atttitude has changed. Even MS and Sony, who previously said that motion controls were a gimmick and balked at the direction Nintendo was taking. I saw absolutely nothing hardcore about Sony or MS's lame motion control demonstrations. No hardcore software announced for it either. Just what looks like the beginnings of party game and minigames. It looked just as bad a Ravi drums if not even more cringe worthy because they actually were copying an idea that Sony, MS and all of the fanboys previously laughed at. On the other Hand, Nintendo came armed with a new NSMB for the Wii, and exciting new Metroid game and an alliance with Team Ninja to make it, sequel to the 2007 GOTY Galaxy 2, and a promising partnership with Monolith software to bring RPG Monado. Back to the subject of motion controls, the Wii has sold over 50 million, it's already getting late in this console cycle, and Nintendo will be the first to bring 1:1 motion controls to the market in a couple of days. Here and now with real games. MS and Sony are walking into Nintendo's territory uninvited and it may get ugly for them. As funny as I find the hypocrisy of this board, I will find it even funnier if Natal and PS3's motion tech fails so I can see everyone's attitude towards motion control suddenly change again. desmondsultanas

Someone came out with something better. That's how electronics have always been. Did you actually think that someone is going to introduce something incredibly successful and not have other companies try to oneup them?

Seriously?

[QUOTE="desmondsultanas"]For two years we had to hear how terrible Nintendo was for coming up with the idea to bring motion controls to home consoles, selling out going casual ect. but when MS and Sony decide to shamelessly copy Nintendo's idea (rather than announce new first party games for their platform at E3), suddenly everyone's atttitude has changed. Even MS and Sony, who previously said that motion controls were a gimmick and balked at the direction Nintendo was taking. I saw absolutely nothing hardcore about Sony or MS's lame motion control demonstrations. No hardcore software announced for it either. Just what looks like the beginnings of party game and minigames. It looked just as bad a Ravi drums if not even more cringe worthy because they actually were copying an idea that Sony, MS and all of the fanboys previously laughed at. On the other Hand, Nintendo came armed with a new NSMB for the Wii, and exciting new Metroid game and an alliance with Team Ninja to make it, sequel to the 2007 GOTY Galaxy 2, and a promising partnership with Monolith software to bring RPG Monado. Back to the subject of motion controls, the Wii has sold over 50 million, it's already getting late in this console cycle, and Nintendo will be the first to bring 1:1 motion controls to the market in a couple of days. Here and now with real games. MS and Sony are walking into Nintendo's territory uninvited and it may get ugly for them. As funny as I find the hypocrisy of this board, I will find it even funnier if Natal and PS3's motion tech fails so I can see everyone's attitude towards motion control suddenly change again. heretrix

Someone came out with something better. That's how electronics have always been. Did you actually think that someone is going to introduce something incredibly successful and not have other companies try to oneup them?

Seriously?

i have nothing against motion control game , but the wiimote without wii motion plus is a gimmick like it or not, in a matter of fact this E3 its the first time we are realy seeing motion control in action, before it was waggling control.legol1

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

[QUOTE="desmondsultanas"]For two years we had to hear how terrible Nintendo was for coming up with the idea to bring motion controls to home consoles, selling out going casual ect. but when MS and Sony decide to shamelessly copy Nintendo's idea (rather than announce new first party games for their platform at E3), suddenly everyone's atttitude has changed. Even MS and Sony, who previously said that motion controls were a gimmick and balked at the direction Nintendo was taking. I saw absolutely nothing hardcore about Sony or MS's lame motion control demonstrations. No hardcore software announced for it either. Just what looks like the beginnings of party game and minigames. It looked just as bad a Ravi drums if not even more cringe worthy because they actually were copying an idea that Sony, MS and all of the fanboys previously laughed at. On the other Hand, Nintendo came armed with a new NSMB for the Wii, and exciting new Metroid game and an alliance with Team Ninja to make it, sequel to the 2007 GOTY Galaxy 2, and a promising partnership with Monolith software to bring RPG Monado. Back to the subject of motion controls, the Wii has sold over 50 million, it's already getting late in this console cycle, and Nintendo will be the first to bring 1:1 motion controls to the market in a couple of days. Here and now with real games. MS and Sony are walking into Nintendo's territory uninvited and it may get ugly for them. As funny as I find the hypocrisy of this board, I will find it even funnier if Natal and PS3's motion tech fails so I can see everyone's attitude towards motion control suddenly change again. desmondsultanas

Someone came out with something better. That's how electronics have always been. Did you actually think that someone is going to introduce something incredibly successful and not have other companies try to oneup them?

Seriously?

Don't say everyone, I still despise motion controls.

motion controls are still a gimmick in my eyes. nothing i'v seen makes them necissary at all

i have nothing against motion control game , but the wiimote without wii motion plus is a gimmick like it or not, in a matter of fact this E3 its the first time we are realy seeing motion control in action, before it was waggling control.legol1

Sony balked at it and yet had the unsuccessful sixaxis? Microsoft did also but they actually didn't come out with anything.

As others have said, this is a business. No motion control scheme is aimed at core gamers--the money is in the casuals. How do you get money out of casuals? Motion controls. Why? Because 11 button controllers are not appealing.

What Microsoft and Sony have to heavily compete with is that Nintendo already has a large majority of the casuals with their "forced" motion control system. Sony's and Microsoft's are optional. That makes this all the more harder for them to market their product.

To add to their uphill battle, their console is already deemed as a "core gamer" console and people still have that 11 button controller to look at for both systems. For casuals, the easier thing for them to do is to buy the Wii.

To make the battle even steeper for M$ and Sony, they have to compete with Mario and other casual games. Mario in and of itself is a huge uphill battle.

They may have stepped into this gimmicky world, but it's what will make them money. I just don't think this was good timing for either company nor is that market big for them in the first place.

I agree with you, TC. It's pretty unbelievable how all the sudden motion control is "cool" and "lmao the Wii's motion control is outdated, yada, yada". As for me? I am still not thrilled at all about motion control.carljohnson3456

I have no loyalty to any of the consoles so I have no issue saying they are all bandwagon jumping, gimmick pushing, limb flailing inducing, ridiculous excuses to draw attention away from worthwhile game innovation.

You would be right about MS if they had bought out a cheap copy of the wii remote like sony has.

Waggling a wand at the screen just looks sad.

But we are talking 3d full body motion capture. Face and speech recognition. Scanning etc...

Motion controls and motion capture are not the same.

If what MS and Sony have come up with were 100% exactly like the Wii's motion controls I'm fairly certain you would see all the same people saying the same negative things about them. The fact is Sony and MS have come up with completely different methods for Motion Control, so to say everyone is a hypocrite if they were negative about Nintendo, but optimistic about Sony and MS is patently false. Besides the fact that Sony and MS have been catering to the core gamers since launch of their perspective systems, whereas Nintendo charged a hefty premium for outdated last gen hardware from launch just because they had motion control that makes this ok? I don't think so. Add to all this the fact that Nintendo has to come up with a new controller that anyone that wants to use will have to buy just like Sony and MS's new products and I think the hypocrisy is coming from the Sheep more than any other group on the board.

If what MS and Sony have come up with were 100% exactly like the Wii's motion controls I'm fairly certain you would see all the same people saying the same negative things about them. The fact is Sony and MS have come up with completely different methods for Motion Control, so to say everyone is a hypocrite if they were negative about Nintendo, but optimistic about Sony and MS is patently false. Besides the fact that Sony and MS have been catering to the core gamers since launch of their perspective systems, whereas Nintendo charged a hefty premium for outdated last gen hardware from launch just because they had motion control that makes this ok? I don't think so. Add to all this the fact that Nintendo has to come up with a new controller that anyone that wants to use will have to buy just like Sony and MS's new products and I think the hypocrisy is coming from the Sheep more than any other group on the board.

nosedive7

[QUOTE="nosedive7"]

If what MS and Sony have come up with were 100% exactly like the Wii's motion controls I'm fairly certain you would see all the same people saying the same negative things about them. The fact is Sony and MS have come up with completely different methods for Motion Control, so to say everyone is a hypocrite if they were negative about Nintendo, but optimistic about Sony and MS is patently false. Besides the fact that Sony and MS have been catering to the core gamers since launch of their perspective systems, whereas Nintendo charged a hefty premium for outdated last gen hardware from launch just because they had motion control that makes this ok? I don't think so. Add to all this the fact that Nintendo has to come up with a new controller that anyone that wants to use will have to buy just like Sony and MS's new products and I think the hypocrisy is coming from the Sheep more than any other group on the board.

cainetao11

Not on my end. I have all three consoles and hate motion controls regardless of what it's on. :|

Not me at least. I still stand the postition that motion controls is a lousy gimmick that only has immediate appeall, but when actually put into works it provides nothing innovative. And yes I think the PS wand thing is going to fail, despite my unchanging interest in their other games.

I have no loyalty to any of the consoles so I have no issue saying they are all bandwagon jumping, gimmick pushing, limb flailing inducing, ridiculous excuses to draw attention away from worthwhile game innovation.

AnnoyedDragon

yep lol totally agreed

Nintendo's new control schemes always get copied and I love them for the innovation that they have always brought about. However its two separate issues you are coalescing into one here. "Hardcore" gamers have been annoyed with Nintendo since they announced the specs for the Wii. Motion controls is one thing, but moving backwards or stagnating in the hardware department is the personal beef me and countless others have with Nintendo atm. When you launch hardware with last gen tech that is years behind what PCs and even the other two consoles have, and you charge probably 150$ more from the start than what the hardware is worth what do you expect? People with half a brain to jump up and down in joy at the prospect of the hobby they love going backwards instead of forwards. Add to that the huge focus on causuals from the start of the gen who are not what kept Nintendo in buisness all this time and that my friend is where the main hate for Nintendo comes from, not just from the half-baked near useless motion controls they have.

[QUOTE="cainetao11"][QUOTE="nosedive7"]

If what MS and Sony have come up with were 100% exactly like the Wii's motion controls I'm fairly certain you would see all the same people saying the same negative things about them. The fact is Sony and MS have come up with completely different methods for Motion Control, so to say everyone is a hypocrite if they were negative about Nintendo, but optimistic about Sony and MS is patently false. Besides the fact that Sony and MS have been catering to the core gamers since launch of their perspective systems, whereas Nintendo charged a hefty premium for outdated last gen hardware from launch just because they had motion control that makes this ok? I don't think so. Add to all this the fact that Nintendo has to come up with a new controller that anyone that wants to use will have to buy just like Sony and MS's new products and I think the hypocrisy is coming from the Sheep more than any other group on the board.

desmondsultanas

I didn't know Nintendo had a patent on motion control.

I have no loyalty to any of the consoles so I have no issue saying they are all bandwagon jumping, gimmick pushing, limb flailing inducing, ridiculous excuses to draw attention away from worthwhile game innovation.

AnnoyedDragon

Like what? Slight graphics upgrades every gen?

Wait. I agree with your point. 110%

BUt are you honestly going to compare MS and Sony's showing of their Motion Control stuff, as if that was their whole show, to Nintendo talking for an hour and only introducing 3 games that people really care about?

I mean, they spent more time talking about their Wii Pulse Sensor, and how they want games that can put people to sleep, than they did promoting their third party software.

I absolutely agree with what you are saying about the hypocrisy and am very happy to see a new direction for Metroid, as well as the Mario stuff. But that is 3 games in an hour. MS's announcements/show was WAY more interesting to me,and I don't even HAVE a 360.

This is system wars, a land where there is more hypocrisy than at the Houses of Parliament and more rabid fanatacism than in the entire Middle East. You're complaining about a daily occurance in this forum...covhunter

[QUOTE="desmondsultanas"][QUOTE="cainetao11"]You sir are hereby, Ninja for the day! Well said.789shadow

I didn't know Nintendo had a patent on motion control.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="desmondsultanas"]Wrong. MS and Sony HAD TO come up with different methods of motion control to avoid copyright infringement. They are still copying and we all know it, they just had to find a different method to copy the same premise.desmondsultanas

I didn't know Nintendo had a patent on motion control.

That's funny. Natal and Glow Sticks didn't look like Wiimotes.

I said this would happen ages ago, but I really didn't think it would happen this soon. Microsoft and Sony are indeed joining the motion-race because they have to. Nintendo has changed the face of gaming.

However, I really don't see Sony or Microsoft completely taking away Nintnedo's momentum. Fact is, Nintnedo's install base is HUGE. Microsoft and Sony on the other hand are just getting started. And further more, Nintendo's first party software is top notch. They make the very best use of motion controls. Period.

Microsoft and Sony have a steeper climb at this than people really think.

[QUOTE="covhunter"]This is system wars, a land where there is more hypocrisy than at the Houses of Parliament and more rabid fanatacism than in the entire Middle East. You're complaining about a daily occurance in this forum...Razlses

That's just posturing, and they know it.

I said this would happen ages ago, but I really didn't think it would happen this soon. Microsoft and Sony are indeed joining the motion-race because they have to. Nintendo has changed the face of gaming.

However, I really don't see Sony or Microsoft completely taking away Nintnedo's momentum. Fact is, Nintnedo's install base is HUGE. Microsoft and Sony on the other hand are just getting started. And further more, Nintendo's first party software is top notch. They make the very best use of motion controls. Period.

Microsoft and Sony have a steeper climb at this than people really think.

Micropixel

The thing about MS and Sony's motion controls is that they are accesories. They don't have to be used to play on the console. I've always disliked motion controls(with a few exceptions on the Wii), and was disappointed to see MS and Sony going down this road.

I think the motion controls are stupid but I think it's great that Sony is getting it. Why? Simple, moneyy, so many people are obsessed with the motion controls it would be stupid not to make a controller for the system. If Sony makes the motion controller just as good as Nintendo's than I think Sony might have a shot at making a lot of money. Because lets face it, PS3+Wii=Must buy.

They're still gimmicks. They're done better than what nintendo has done, but they're still gimmicks.

The difference is that they're not replacing standard controls. Thats why no one's mad. If Sony announced that all new games would have to be controlled by the motion controller, then people would be angry.

I don't care that they came out with motion controls, I knew it would happen the minute the Wii surpassed the 360 in sales. I'm just laughing at the way that both companies are talking and that fanboys now all of a sudden accept the talk of letting casuals in on gaming... that tons of buttons are confusing and that we need NEW gamers all of a sudden.

Hypocrisy indeed, but a tragic necessity for those who didn't see this coming.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="desmondsultanas"]Wrong. MS and Sony HAD TO come up with different methods of motion control to avoid copyright infringement. They are still copying and we all know it, they just had to find a different method to copy the same premise.desmondsultanas

I didn't know Nintendo had a patent on motion control.

Lol, nintendo used pre-existing motion sensing technology.

Is everyone forgetting that Sony utilized motion technology last gen? Hello, the eyetoy? This time they seem to be trying to make it so that it's more applicable to gaming, although I doubt it'll ever leave the awkwardness of the motion controls themselves.

I don't care that they came out with motion controls, I knew it would happen the minute the Wii surpassed the 360 in sales. I'm just laughing at the way that both companies are talking and that fanboys now all of a sudden accept the talk of letting casuals in on gaming... that tons of buttons are confusing and that we need NEW gamers all of a sudden.

Hypocrisy indeed, but a tragic necessity for those who didn't see this coming.

kansasdude2009

Who is saying any of this? Casuals are always welcome on Sony and Microsoft systems. They've bought Sony systems in the past, and the controller hasn't deterred them. It's a familiar layout. It's not really hard to figure out either.

They're still gimmicks. They're done better than what nintendo has done, but they're still gimmicks.

The difference is that they're not replacing standard controls. Thats why no one's mad. If Sony announced that all new games would have to be controlled by the motion controller, then people would be angry.

hakanakumono

Like what? Slight graphics upgrades every gen?

789shadow

Maybe if you own every copy of the Call of Duty series and have to buy every sports title all you see is graphical upgrades.

But games do change over time and introduce new ideas and themes. I have zero interest in what Nintendo has to offer and quite frankly I think it is laughable all the "hardcore" platforms are jumping on their motion sensing bandwagon. Casuals amused by the game being controlled by them flailing around may be entertained by motion sensing; but I don't care about it.

Nintendo audiences have always been susceptible to gimmicks, Nintendo has a long history of abandoned add-ons, the other platforms have no excuse.

All I'm saying is this isn't my idea of progress in gaming, just a distraction from making real progress.

For two years we had to hear how terrible Nintendo was for coming up with the idea to bring motion controls to home consoles, selling out going casual etc. but when MS and Sony decide to shamelessly copy Nintendo idea (rather than announce new first party games for their platform at E3), suddenly everyone attitude has changed. Even MS and Sony, who previously said that motion controls were a gimmick and balked at the direction Nintendo was taking. I saw absolutely nothing hardcore about Sony or MS's lame motion control demonstrations. No hardcore software announced for it either. Just what looks like the beginnings of party game and mini games. It looked just as bad a Ravi drums if not even more cringe worthy because they actually were copying an idea that Sony, MS and all of the fan boys previously laughed at. On the other Hand, Nintendo came armed with a new NSMB for the Wii, and exciting new Metroid game and an alliance with Team Ninja to make it, sequel to the 2007 GOTY Galaxy 2, and a promising partnership with Monolith software to bring RPG Monado. Back to the subject of motion controls, the Wii has sold over 50 million, it's already getting late in this console cycle, and Nintendo will be the first to bring 1:1 motion controls to the market in a couple of days. Here and now with real games. MS and Sony are walking into Nintendo's territory uninvited and it may get ugly for them. As funny as I find the hypocrisy of this board, I will find it even funnier if Natal and PS3's motion tech fails so I can see every one's attitude towards motion control suddenly change again. Don't tell me that we should celebrate MS and Sony's motion control because this is the first time we've seen non waggle motion controls. That's WRONG. Nintendo was the first to show true 1:1 motion controls at E3 2008. Don't tell me that MS and Sony motion controls should be celebrated just because they use a different method of motion control, they had too to do that to avoid copyright infringement. They are copying and we all know it.desmond sultanas

motion controls have been around before Nintendo used it.Just like touch controls.

Wait. I agree with your point. 110%

BUt are you honestly going to compare MS and Sony's showing of their Motion Control stuff, as if that was their whole show, to Nintendo talking for an hour and only introducing 3 games that people really care about?

I mean, they spent more time talking about their Wii Pulse Sensor, and how they want games that can put people to sleep, than they did promoting their third party software.

I absolutely agree with what you are saying about the hypocrisy and am very happy to see a new direction for Metroid, as well as the Mario stuff. But that is 3 games in an hour. MS's announcements/show was WAY more interesting to me,and I don't even HAVE a 360.

ZIMdoom

Nintendo did more then just introduce 3 games. They showed us some more footage for Mario and Luigi 3 and confrimed its release, they debuted Golden Sun DS and they showed off even more neat looking wii sports features.

anyways, i'm just nit pickign :) I just didn't want people to forget about some of the other neat stuff nintendo showed off.. even if they also wasted alot of time on stuff "we" don't care about(but who didn't?)

[QUOTE="desmond sultanas"]For two years we had to hear how terrible Nintendo was for coming up with the idea to bring motion controls to home consoles, selling out going casual etc. but when MS and Sony decide to shamelessly copy Nintendo idea (rather than announce new first party games for their platform at E3), suddenly everyone attitude has changed. Even MS and Sony, who previously said that motion controls were a gimmick and balked at the direction Nintendo was taking. I saw absolutely nothing hardcore about Sony or MS's lame motion control demonstrations. No hardcore software announced for it either. Just what looks like the beginnings of party game and mini games. It looked just as bad a Ravi drums if not even more cringe worthy because they actually were copying an idea that Sony, MS and all of the fan boys previously laughed at. On the other Hand, Nintendo came armed with a new NSMB for the Wii, and exciting new Metroid game and an alliance with Team Ninja to make it, sequel to the 2007 GOTY Galaxy 2, and a promising partnership with Monolith software to bring RPG Monado. Back to the subject of motion controls, the Wii has sold over 50 million, it's already getting late in this console cycle, and Nintendo will be the first to bring 1:1 motion controls to the market in a couple of days. Here and now with real games. MS and Sony are walking into Nintendo's territory uninvited and it may get ugly for them. As funny as I find the hypocrisy of this board, I will find it even funnier if Natal and PS3's motion tech fails so I can see every one's attitude towards motion control suddenly change again. Don't tell me that we should celebrate MS and Sony's motion control because this is the first time we've seen non waggle motion controls. That's WRONG. Nintendo was the first to show true 1:1 motion controls at E3 2008. Don't tell me that MS and Sony motion controls should be celebrated just because they use a different method of motion control, they had too to do that to avoid copyright infringement. They are copying and we all know it.SragentThom

motion controls have been around before Nintendo used it.Just like touch controls.

[QUOTE="kansasdude2009"]

I don't care that they came out with motion controls, I knew it would happen the minute the Wii surpassed the 360 in sales. I'm just laughing at the way that both companies are talking and that fanboys now all of a sudden accept the talk of letting casuals in on gaming... that tons of buttons are confusing and that we need NEW gamers all of a sudden.

Hypocrisy indeed, but a tragic necessity for those who didn't see this coming.

hakanakumono

Who is saying any of this? Casuals are always welcome on Sony and Microsoft systems. They've bought Sony systems in the past, and the controller hasn't deterred them. It's a familiar layout. It's not really hard to figure out either.

Maybe you should rewatch the conferences... here is a quote I had to go watch again just for you from microsoft's:

Spielberg: "How can we make videogames as approachable as all other forms of entertainment? Everybody loves books and music, and everybody loves movies. But the vast majority of people are just too intimidated to pick up a game controller.

Microsoft Rep: "That's right, if you haven't grown up playing games, become cool with your thumbs, it's a little daunting."

Spielberg: "That's right. And despite the size of the industry, still 60% of households do not own a console..... make the technology invisible... shine the light on the user on how much fun you could be having..."

This is stuff Nintendo has been talking about since 2005 (really since before the Gamecube). This is Microsoft's and Sony's new goal! This is what they want... what Nintendo has. But now it's awesome? That is what the TC is talking about.

Why don't you just say 'the shameless hypocrisy of fanboyism in general' and you'd be describing the majority of SW posts about everything.