The system that revived a dead industry had bad graphics...

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OceanLeet

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#1 OceanLeet
Member since 2007 • 938 Posts
"The Wii is destroying gaming" LOL. :lol:

Alot of you were too young during the NES's days. But back then, nobody gave a crap about the cartoony graphics in every game. Sure, it was a major step up from the Atari, but people didn't say "z0mG!! Teh graphics are so real!!"
Games were simple and they were fun. Just look at all of the clas.sics that were founded then: Contra, Mario, Zelda, Castlevania, Metroid, sports games for the about first time ever, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, on and on. These games were built around the concept of fun to play. They were all butt ugly. Nobody cared. It was fun and the industry we know today was born.
But in recent years, gaming has grown stagnant. Modern games are incredibly complex and alienate outsiders from the gaming community. Nintendo has been the only company to publicly recognize that while the actual number of people gaming has been rising, it's not rising as fast as the population. The % of the population that are gamers has actually been dropping.
So, that brings us to the Wii. Nintendo is again bringing out a simple, fun system just as the NES once was and guess what...new gamers are popping up. The Wii is getting people to look beyond the graphics and into the core of the games themselves. People are smiling and having fun once again.
Many of the veteran gamers (we know them as the hardcore) reject the Wii. But that's why the 360 is there. A damn fine gaming machine for people that want a high level of complexity and graphics in their games.

edit:  i'm talking about what went on in America; not overseas.  not worldwide.
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nyoroism

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#3 nyoroism
Member since 2007 • 3778 Posts

The Wii is destroying gaming. Yep.

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Runningflame570

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#4 Runningflame570
Member since 2005 • 10388 Posts
Dead industry my foot..it was the console market and it was in the US only.
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OceanLeet

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#5 OceanLeet
Member since 2007 • 938 Posts
Dead industry my foot..it was the console market and it was in the US only.Runningflame570

Apparently you havn't heard about the industry crash in 1983.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_crash_of_1983
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pundog

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#6 pundog
Member since 2006 • 4491 Posts
The Wii won't kill gaming... as long as it doesn't absolutely destroy the PS3/360 sales-wise. Because as great as games like Wii Sports are, I think we can all agree that no one wants a gaming library completely made up of minigames and stuff I used to find on websites like popcap.com and the like.
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Runningflame570

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#7 Runningflame570
Member since 2005 • 10388 Posts
[QUOTE="Runningflame570"]Dead industry my foot..it was the console market and it was in the US only.OceanLeet

Apparently you havn't heard about the industry crash in 1983.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_crash_of_1983

I've read about it though I don't consider Wikipedia to be the most reliable source. Europe, the UK and to a lesser degree Japan all weathered the Crash and were fine for it (especially Europe where the homebrew scene essentially replaced the commercial scene). The computer industry in the US pretty much consistently grew throughout the 80s for a number of reasons, the crash did not destroy that market even if there was a dropoff, likewise the arcade industry experienced a dropoff but by no means a complete failure. It was only videogame consoles that became entirely irrelevant for the term.
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Panzer_Zwei

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#8 Panzer_Zwei
Member since 2006 • 15498 Posts
I see the misconsceptions still rage on. It wasn't with the NES itself that Nintendo put the industry going in the US (because it was going strong in Japan), but with their practices. Specially with the quality control regulation, that was practically non-existant with Atari.
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-DarthVader-

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#9 -DarthVader-
Member since 2003 • 12590 Posts
Dead industry my foot..it was the console market and it was in the US only.Runningflame570


The console market crashed worldwide in 83...
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Qanio

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#10 Qanio
Member since 2007 • 127 Posts
i wonder why you cant say classics, o well...i didnt bother reading all of your post but im goin to assume it was nice about nintendo so if thats the case i agree.
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Panzer_Zwei

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#11 Panzer_Zwei
Member since 2006 • 15498 Posts
[QUOTE="Runningflame570"]Dead industry my foot..it was the console market and it was in the US only.-DarthVader-


The console market crashed worldwide in 83...

While PC gaming and Arcades were blooming like never before. You know how popular was the MSX, specially in Japan then?
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Qanio

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#12 Qanio
Member since 2007 • 127 Posts
i wonder why you cant say classics, o well...i didnt bother reading all of your post but im goin to assume it was nice about nintendo so if thats the case i agree.Qanio
wow it worked, before i saw the word classic cut out haha
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Yuri_Volte

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#13 Yuri_Volte
Member since 2005 • 698 Posts
really this was not a dying industry , ok fanboys lets get this straigth: - when the total ammount of SOLD past gen are around 150 millions or even more , you can talk like the industry was dying. - Ninty was in bad shape not in finance ( they awlays get profit) but in the market image , let`s see N64 whiped by PSone , that time they try virtual boy ( YIKES !!! ) and next GC the lowest seller in ninty house systems . -yes simplistic WAS good , when we can ask for more of our system , dude i am playing since 84` so i can live the NES era and really , i love my NES but i always just to go to the arcades ( RIP little arcades :( ) just to be amaze about how wonderful were that machines. so to finish my point : the wii is making ninty ear a lot of money, maybe is fun ( personally i don`t like it ) for some pleople , and if is reivinting the industry maybe i will stop playinh i can see myself playing wii games for the next 5 years
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Random__Guy

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#14 Random__Guy
Member since 2007 • 1047 Posts
When i first got my nes it WAS  like "oh my god its so real"
Mario looked like a person not some block or triangle
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Runningflame570

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#15 Runningflame570
Member since 2005 • 10388 Posts
[QUOTE="Runningflame570"]Dead industry my foot..it was the console market and it was in the US only.-DarthVader-


The console market crashed worldwide in 83...

But was sure as heck not dead worldwide..especially if you consider things like the ZX Spectrum and Commodore VIC-20/64 consoles.
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Sgt_Hale

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#16 Sgt_Hale
Member since 2007 • 2257 Posts

It's not ruining the industry... it's just not adding anything much to it or increasing the quality of games in any fashion. As for your argument, for those of us that DO remember the introduction of the NES... the graphics were definitely a part of our fascination. Before the NES we never had a home system that had games that looked so 'good'. It wasn't about looking real, it was about artwork... pretty much the same as the graphics comparisons of today.

Either way, plenty will enjoy the Wii... it just won't be the only console for anyone b/c no one really thinks of it as a next gen console.

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OceanLeet

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#17 OceanLeet
Member since 2007 • 938 Posts
[QUOTE="OceanLeet"][QUOTE="Runningflame570"]Dead industry my foot..it was the console market and it was in the US only.Runningflame570

Apparently you havn't heard about the industry crash in 1983.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_crash_of_1983

I've read about it though I don't consider Wikipedia to be the most reliable source. Europe, the UK and to a lesser degree Japan all weathered the Crash and were fine for it (especially Europe where the homebrew scene essentially replaced the commercial scene). The computer industry in the US pretty much consistently grew throughout the 80s for a number of reasons, the crash did not destroy that market even if there was a dropoff, likewise the arcade industry experienced a dropoff but by no means a complete failure. It was only videogame consoles that became entirely irrelevant for the term.


Computer games didn't take the hit, as the two sides of the industry were on different pages until the arrival of the Snes/Genesis eras.  However, because the pc gaming industry was very small in the early 80s, the loss of the console side crippled the whole industry.  The Arcade aspect had taken a hit in the 70s with the arrival of the Atari, so it kinda limped through the early 80s as well.
To your other point, no I don't know much about what was going on overseas.  I only know what happened in America from my own early observations and through research.
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-DarthVader-

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#18 -DarthVader-
Member since 2003 • 12590 Posts
[QUOTE="-DarthVader-"][QUOTE="Runningflame570"]Dead industry my foot..it was the console market and it was in the US only.Panzer_Zwei


The console market crashed worldwide in 83...

While PC gaming and Arcades were blooming like never before. You know how popular was the MSX, specially in Japant then?




Notice i said console market... but PC gaming boomed because there was hardly any to begin with and you saw the price in the 80's of a PC fall, and Arcades didn't become a force until 83 when the console market crashed


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RKFS

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#19 RKFS
Member since 2005 • 1096 Posts
[QUOTE="-DarthVader-"][QUOTE="Runningflame570"]Dead industry my foot..it was the console market and it was in the US only.Panzer_Zwei


The console market crashed worldwide in 83...

While PC gaming and Arcades were blooming like never before. You know how popular was the MSX, specially in Japan then?

This is console wars you know?
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Panzer_Zwei

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#20 Panzer_Zwei
Member since 2006 • 15498 Posts
[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"][QUOTE="-DarthVader-"][QUOTE="Runningflame570"]Dead industry my foot..it was the console market and it was in the US only.-DarthVader-


The console market crashed worldwide in 83...

While PC gaming and Arcades were blooming like never before. You know how popular was the MSX, specially in Japant then?




Notice i said console market... but PC gaming boomed because there was hardly any to begin with, and Arcades didn't become as popluar until the mid 80's


Console gaming isn't the whole of gaming. Nintendo didn't really saved gaming. And Arcades were already very popular before the release of the NES. And I know cause I actually lived it.
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AgentA-Mi6

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#21 AgentA-Mi6
Member since 2006 • 16734 Posts
[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"][QUOTE="-DarthVader-"][QUOTE="Runningflame570"]Dead industry my foot..it was the console market and it was in the US only.RKFS


The console market crashed worldwide in 83...

While PC gaming and Arcades were blooming like never before. You know how popular was the MSX, specially in Japan then?

This is console wars you know?

Hermit...Cough....Cough...!
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Runningflame570

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#22 Runningflame570
Member since 2005 • 10388 Posts
When i first got my nes it was like "oh my god its so real"
Mario looked like a person not a block or triangle
Random__Guy
Yep.. That is Pole Position and its one of the more impressive titles for the 2600. This is adventure and is pretty much par for the course on the system, that dot is your character.

Hermit...Cough....Cough...!AgentA-Mi6


You obviously don't know Panzer_Zwei to be calling him that..
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billbradsky

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#23 billbradsky
Member since 2007 • 370 Posts

[QUOTE="OceanLeet"][QUOTE="Runningflame570"]Dead industry my foot..it was the console market and it was in the US only.Runningflame570

Apparently you havn't heard about the industry crash in 1983.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_crash_of_1983

I've read about it though I don't consider Wikipedia to be the most reliable source. Europe, the UK and to a lesser degree Japan all weathered the Crash and were fine for it (especially Europe where the homebrew scene essentially replaced the commercial scene). The computer industry in the US pretty much consistently grew throughout the 80s for a number of reasons, the crash did not destroy that market even if there was a dropoff, likewise the arcade industry experienced a dropoff but by no means a complete failure. It was only videogame consoles that became entirely irrelevant for the term.

First of all, there was a huge market failure.  I don't what you want to believe or how you want to view wikipedia, it happened.  Second the crash didn't destroy the market, the market caused the crash.  Too many companies brought out too much crap and consumers got fed up with it.  Nintendo revitalized the video game industry. 

However, in response to the original poster.  NES had amazing graphics for the time, don't kid yourself.  In today standards they are simple, but in 1986 those were amazing compared to the 5200, colecovision, intellivision and the such.  That's not why people bought the NES though.  Nintendo was very clever to market it as a entertainment system and not a video game console or a gaming computer.  Secondly, they required the game to be approved by Nintendo.  The great Nintendo seal of approval you see on NES game boxes.  This avoided all the cheap poorly made games that flooded the market and caused the crash. 

So Nintendo did many things right to succeed.  But to say it had bad graphics is a little short-sighted.

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Panzer_Zwei

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#25 Panzer_Zwei
Member since 2006 • 15498 Posts

Secondly, they required the game to be approved by Nintendo. The great Nintendo seal of approval you see on NES game boxes. This avoided all the cheap poorly made games that flooded the market and caused the crash.
billbradsky

And gave security to third party that their games wouldn't be bastardized. Thus, encouraging more developing.

Their practices were actually what did the work, not their games.

Although they took their grip of third party too far, and pretty much most developers ended up at odds with them.
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OceanLeet

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#26 OceanLeet
Member since 2007 • 938 Posts

[QUOTE="Runningflame570"][QUOTE="OceanLeet"][QUOTE="Runningflame570"]Dead industry my foot..it was the console market and it was in the US only.billbradsky


Apparently you havn't heard about the industry crash in 1983.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_crash_of_1983

I've read about it though I don't consider Wikipedia to be the most reliable source. Europe, the UK and to a lesser degree Japan all weathered the Crash and were fine for it (especially Europe where the homebrew scene essentially replaced the commercial scene). The computer industry in the US pretty much consistently grew throughout the 80s for a number of reasons, the crash did not destroy that market even if there was a dropoff, likewise the arcade industry experienced a dropoff but by no means a complete failure. It was only videogame consoles that became entirely irrelevant for the term.

First of all, there was a huge market failure. I don't what you want to believe or how you want to view wikipedia, it happened. Second the crash didn't destroy the market, the market caused the crash. Too many companies brought out too much crap and consumers got fed up with it. Nintendo revitalized the video game industry.

However, in response to the original poster. NES had amazing graphics for the time, don't kid yourself. In today standards they are simple, but in 1986 those were amazing compared to the 5200, colecovision, intellivision and the such. That's not why people bought the NES though. Nintendo was very clever to market it as a entertainment system and not a video game console or a gaming computer. Secondly, they required the game to be approved by Nintendo. The great Nintendo seal of approval you see on NES game boxes. This avoided all the cheap poorly made games that flooded the market and caused the crash.

So Nintendo did many things right to succeed. But to say it had bad graphics is a little short-sighted.


I said it had good graphics and was a clear step up from Atari.  But people didn't go on and on about the graphics like they do today.  The graphics were nice, but they came after gameplay.  The gameplay of games on the NES were groundbreaking.  Lush worlds like in the original Legend of Zelda were unheard of.  And the action found in Contra was awesome.  Even making Mario jump around collecting stars and squishing was incredible.  The NES was a whole new kind of gaming.
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Random__Guy

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#27 Random__Guy
Member since 2007 • 1047 Posts
Allot of people did go on and on about the graphics especially the intro's and cut sceens
now that i think about it graphics were way more important to people back then, than they are now
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deactivated-57d773aa56272

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#28 deactivated-57d773aa56272
Member since 2006 • 2292 Posts
yo that god of war game look dope
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Corvin

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#29 Corvin
Member since 2002 • 7266 Posts
Actually you are wrong. I remember perfectly well seeing Mario vs. good ol' Atari 2600 for the first time. I said, "WOW! This looks so colorful and runs so smooth it almost looks like a real cartoon!" Nintendo games were NOT ugly for their time, they were vibrant and colorful, and the sound was absolutely excellent. Also I question how much more SIMPLE Wii really is. A small handful of games are very simple but many still require a whole lot of learning. Only instead of learning buttons you have to remember motions, and there are still plenty of buttons too. And getting used to coordinating yourself with the two halves of the controller in each hand can be just as daunting as learning a standard controller. Its not about how simple but how intuitive it feels. It would feel much more natural to learn motion controls, but the complexity is still there.
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Hoffgod

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#30 Hoffgod
Member since 2006 • 12229 Posts
And, just for the record, the NES was weaker than the Sega Master System, and by a good amount too.
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Runningflame570

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#31 Runningflame570
Member since 2005 • 10388 Posts

Although they took their grip of third party too far, and pretty much most developers ended up at odds with them.
Panzer_Zwei
Exactly, they limited the vast majority of developers (some early developers like Konami seemed exempt) to two games a year and had a clause mandating exclusivity of a title for it to appear on Famicom/NES. Those were monopolistic practices and they rightly got sued over it..the problem is the penalty they paid ($5 coupons on games for the system) meaning they ended up making even MORE money.
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Runningflame570

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#32 Runningflame570
Member since 2005 • 10388 Posts
And, just for the record, the NES was weaker than the Sega Master System, and by a good amount too.Hoffgod


Sega Master System yeah...the problem was the aforementioned monopolistic practices of Nintendo, the fact it came out a couple of years later, and the lack of advertising for the system in comparison to NES. Lots of people just didn't know it existed which is one of the reasons NES ended up with above 90% marketshare that gen.
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Panzer_Zwei

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#33 Panzer_Zwei
Member since 2006 • 15498 Posts
And, just for the record, the NES was weaker than the Sega Master System, and by a good amount too.Hoffgod
Yet Nintendo had a third party monopoly at the time, preventing them for developing for the system. Just another of Nintendo's disloyal competition. When the PC-Engine came out, it pretty much buried the NES in Japan though.
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Random__Guy

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#34 Random__Guy
Member since 2007 • 1047 Posts
And, just for the record, the NES was weaker than the Sega Master System, and by a good amount too.Hoffgod


I always thought the built in game was a cool idea
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StealthSting

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#35 StealthSting
Member since 2006 • 6915 Posts
[QUOTE="billbradsky"]

Secondly, they required the game to be approved by Nintendo. The great Nintendo seal of approval you see on NES game boxes. This avoided all the cheap poorly made games that flooded the market and caused the crash.
Panzer_Zwei

And gave security to third party that their games wouldn't be bastardized. Thus, encouraging more developing.

Their practices were actually what did the work, not their games.

Although they took their grip of third party too far, and pretty much most developers ended up at odds with them.

Not entirely true, their games did have a hand on the revitalization of the console industry at its beggining. The console industry was preatty much getting flooded with Pong rehashes as well as other, for lack of a better word crap, that as we all know brought the console industry down.
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Hoffgod

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#36 Hoffgod
Member since 2006 • 12229 Posts
Sega Master System yeah...the problem was the aforementioned monopolistic practices of Nintendo, the fact it came out a couple of years later, and the lack of advertising for the system in comparison to NES. Lots of people just didn't know it existed which is one of the reasons NES ended up with above 90% marketshare that gen.Runningflame570
True. I didn't even know it existed until last year. [QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]Yet Nintendo had a third party monopoly at the time, preventing them for developing for the system. Just another of Nintendo's disloyal competition. When the PC-Engine came out, it pretty much buried the NES in Japan though.

True. If memory serves, NoJ had less restrive policies than NoA, making it more vunerable to competition. Also, the NES never had the total marketshare in Japan that it did in NA. Plus, Sega of America hadn't really gotten its act together yet. It wouldn't pose a real threat to Nintendo until around 1990 and 1991.
I always thought the built in game was a cool ideaRandom__Guy
True. I own a Master System II (Picked it up last year for $8) and having Alex Kidd built in is awesome.
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Panzer_Zwei

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#37 Panzer_Zwei
Member since 2006 • 15498 Posts
[QUOTE="Hoffgod"] True. I own a Master System II (Picked it up last year for $8) and having Alex Kidd built in is awesome.

I sold my Master System when I got my Mega Drive and just bought the adapter.
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Runningflame570

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#38 Runningflame570
Member since 2005 • 10388 Posts
[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"] True. I own a Master System II (Picked it up last year for $8) and having Alex Kidd built in is awesome.

I sold my Master System when I got my Mega Drive and just bought the adapter.

If you own a Genesis 3 you don't even need an adapter.
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Panzer_Zwei

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#39 Panzer_Zwei
Member since 2006 • 15498 Posts
[QUOTE="Runningflame570"][QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"] True. I own a Master System II (Picked it up last year for $8) and having Alex Kidd built in is awesome.

I sold my Master System when I got my Mega Drive and just bought the adapter.

If you own a Genesis 3 you don't even need an adapter.

The Genesis 3 was the worst version of the console though.
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Hoffgod

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#40 Hoffgod
Member since 2006 • 12229 Posts
[QUOTE="Runningflame570"][QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"][QUOTE="Hoffgod"] True. I own a Master System II (Picked it up last year for $8) and having Alex Kidd built in is awesome.

I sold my Master System when I got my Mega Drive and just bought the adapter.

If you own a Genesis 3 you don't even need an adapter.

Problem is I have a Genesis 1 (Picked it up last year as well) and the adaptors are really hard to find. No where nearby has them, and they go for more than $10 on eBay.
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Runningflame570

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#41 Runningflame570
Member since 2005 • 10388 Posts
The Genesis 3 was the worst version of the console though.Panzer_Zwei
Its the most valuable now though...I really liked Model 2, it was smaller and more sleek than the other models but not so tiny as Genesis 3 (seriously..those controllers were unbearably tiny). You should seriously join retro wars..you are the SHMUP Dictionary after all.
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Panzer_Zwei

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#42 Panzer_Zwei
Member since 2006 • 15498 Posts
[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]The Genesis 3 was the worst version of the console though.Runningflame570
Its the most valuable now though...I really liked Model 2, it was smaller and more sleek than the other models but not so tiny as Genesis 3 (seriously..those controllers were unbearably tiny). You should seriously join retro wars..you are the SHMUP Dictionary after all.

You can't attach the SEGA CD to that model.
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Gaming4_Life

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#43 Gaming4_Life
Member since 2007 • 775 Posts
I think there is room for all three platforms as long as one doesn't monopoly the others. I would almost venture to say that the PS2 had a monopoly on the GC and Xbox, but we'll how everything pans out.
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Hoffgod

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#44 Hoffgod
Member since 2006 • 12229 Posts
[QUOTE="Runningflame570"][QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]The Genesis 3 was the worst version of the console though.Panzer_Zwei
Its the most valuable now though...I really liked Model 2, it was smaller and more sleek than the other models but not so tiny as Genesis 3 (seriously..those controllers were unbearably tiny). You should seriously join retro wars..you are the SHMUP Dictionary after all.

You can't attach the SEGA CD to that model.

Another reason I avoided the Model 3. It'll cost a pretty penny, but one of these days I'm going to buy a Sega CD attatchment and a copy of Snatchers and see what all the fuss is about.
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Runningflame570

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#45 Runningflame570
Member since 2005 • 10388 Posts
You can't attach the SEGA CD to that model.
Panzer_Zwei
That is kind of not a surprise to me. Sega CD was discontinued years before they released it and Sega didn't even manufacture it..they gave another company the rights to do so.
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m0rphl1ng

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#46 m0rphl1ng
Member since 2005 • 565 Posts
If it keeps pumping out shovelware and mini-games then yes the Wii will ruin gaming
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LordoverFeind

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#47 LordoverFeind
Member since 2006 • 1041 Posts
i wonder why you cant say classics, o well...i didnt bother reading all of your post but im goin to assume it was nice about nintendo so if thats the case i agree.Qanio
Love your gif of ippo doing the dempsy roll sweet.
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Panzer_Zwei

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#48 Panzer_Zwei
Member since 2006 • 15498 Posts
[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"][QUOTE="Runningflame570"][QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]The Genesis 3 was the worst version of the console though.Hoffgod
Its the most valuable now though...I really liked Model 2, it was smaller and more sleek than the other models but not so tiny as Genesis 3 (seriously..those controllers were unbearably tiny). You should seriously join retro wars..you are the SHMUP Dictionary after all.

You can't attach the SEGA CD to that model.

Another reason I avoided the Model 3. It'll cost a pretty penny, but one of these days I'm going to buy a Sega CD attatchment and a copy of Snatchers and see what all the fuss is about.

There's much more than Snatcher though.

Lunar: The Silver Star
Lunar: Eternal Blue
Vay
Dark Wizard
Dungeon Explorer
Robo Aleste
Space Adventure Cobra
Rise of the Dragon
Earthworm Jim: Special Edition
Bari-Arm
Keio Flying Squadron
Final Fight CD
Shining Force CD
Popful Mail
Lords of Thunder
Spider Man vs. Kingpin
Silpheed

Just to mention some.

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Devil-Itachi

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#49 Devil-Itachi
Member since 2005 • 4387 Posts
[QUOTE="-DarthVader-"][QUOTE="Runningflame570"]Dead industry my foot..it was the console market and it was in the US only.Runningflame570


The console market crashed worldwide in 83...

But was sure as heck not dead worldwide..especially if you consider things like the ZX Spectrum and Commodore VIC-20/64 consoles.

Funny how those are computers. Retailers wouldn't except another console into the market. Nintendo had to convince retailers it was a toy. It was the sole purpose of R.O.B.
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Runningflame570

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#50 Runningflame570
Member since 2005 • 10388 Posts
[QUOTE="Devil-Itachi"] Funny how those are computers. Retailers wouldn't except another console into the market. Nintendo had to convince retailers it was a toy. It was the sole purpose of R.O.B.

You do know I'm fully aware they're computers, right? Heck I own a Commodore computer. The launch of the NES in the US though has kind of become perceived as the worldwide situation though...it wasn't.