The Wii: A tragic system

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jetthrovegas

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#151 jetthrovegas
Member since 2007 • 1328 Posts
[QUOTE="jetthrovegas"][QUOTE="kittykatz5k"]

[QUOTE="jetthrovegas"]You use GS, I use GR, get over it. You won't change my mind. There is a large amount of people on SW that would prefer GR.kittykatz5k

Switching to game rankings would be a good idea soon, due to the new review system of gmaespot, however, as things still stand, we're technecally on a gamespot side of things. Further more, in your attempt to bring up wii's game list, you missed 2 games, making this whole game rankings arguments a popped baloon at this point. Lets move onto anotehr point of yours, shall we, see what other bubbles I can pop.

I missed nothing. The Wii has 6 80%+ games and 1 90%+ game. End of story.RE4 is not in the Wii top ten.

That is because your research is limited to what's displayed on their top 10. RE4 AND mercury meltdown havn't been out long enough to appear there, does that mean they just don't exsist? No, it means the site hasn't updated their top ten yet. For your own sake, I'd switch topics, this one is a dead end.

No it is not. Let's say that MM and RE4 wii are in the top ten:

Now you have 8 games at 80%+ and 2 games at 90%+. 360 has 49 games at 80%+ and 6 games at 90%+.

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Kaze_no_Mirai

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#152 Kaze_no_Mirai
Member since 2004 • 11763 Posts
[QUOTE="kittykatz5k"][QUOTE="jetthrovegas"][QUOTE="kittykatz5k"]

[QUOTE="jetthrovegas"]You use GS, I use GR, get over it. You won't change my mind. There is a large amount of people on SW that would prefer GR.jetthrovegas

Switching to game rankings would be a good idea soon, due to the new review system of gmaespot, however, as things still stand, we're technecally on a gamespot side of things. Further more, in your attempt to bring up wii's game list, you missed 2 games, making this whole game rankings arguments a popped baloon at this point. Lets move onto anotehr point of yours, shall we, see what other bubbles I can pop.

I missed nothing. The Wii has 6 80%+ games and 1 90%+ game. End of story.RE4 is not in the Wii top ten.

That is because your research is limited to what's displayed on their top 10. RE4 AND mercury meltdown havn't been out long enough to appear there, does that mean they just don't exsist? No, it means the site hasn't updated their top ten yet. For your own sake, I'd switch topics, this one is a dead end.

No it is not. Let's say that MM and RE4 wii are in the top ten:

Now you have 8 games at 80%+ and 2 games at 90%+. 360 has 49 games at 80%+ and 6 games at 90%+.

Why are you comparing a system thats been out for over a year for one that has less? A fair comparison woul dbe PS3 and Wii.

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-RPGamer-

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#153 -RPGamer-
Member since 2002 • 34283 Posts

Well actually Wii has:

+90% - 2

80%-89.9% - 6

Not sure how that really debunks his statements, maybe his exact numbers but he's not far off. And one of those two above 90% is actually Manhunt 2.

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Unstoppable_1

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#154 Unstoppable_1
Member since 2003 • 2005 Posts

The problem lies on the developers not being able to fully capture the Wii's power. Nintendo can do it hence they release the best game's. What Nintendo needs to do is put their people in other third party companies so that they can share what they know about the Wii hardware.

Also Nintendo should start setting standards like Microsoft so you don't get crappy games like Far Cry. However that is debatable considering Hour of Victory scored a 2.0 on Gamespot and it's an Xbox 360 game.

Nintendo needs to help out it's other developers more. That way they can all make quality games which are above average.

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-RPGamer-

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#155 -RPGamer-
Member since 2002 • 34283 Posts

Well actually Wii has:

+90% - 2

80%-89.9% - 6

Not sure how that really debunks his statements, maybe his exact numbers but he's not far off. And one of those two above 90% is actually Manhunt 2.

-RPGamer-

Per request of someone else...

Well actuallyPS3 has:

+90% - 1

80%-89.9% - 14

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kittykatz5k

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#156 kittykatz5k
Member since 2004 • 32249 Posts
[QUOTE="kittykatz5k"][QUOTE="jetthrovegas"][QUOTE="kittykatz5k"]

[QUOTE="jetthrovegas"]You use GS, I use GR, get over it. You won't change my mind. There is a large amount of people on SW that would prefer GR.jetthrovegas

Switching to game rankings would be a good idea soon, due to the new review system of gmaespot, however, as things still stand, we're technecally on a gamespot side of things. Further more, in your attempt to bring up wii's game list, you missed 2 games, making this whole game rankings arguments a popped baloon at this point. Lets move onto anotehr point of yours, shall we, see what other bubbles I can pop.

I missed nothing. The Wii has 6 80%+ games and 1 90%+ game. End of story.RE4 is not in the Wii top ten.

That is because your research is limited to what's displayed on their top 10. RE4 AND mercury meltdown havn't been out long enough to appear there, does that mean they just don't exsist? No, it means the site hasn't updated their top ten yet. For your own sake, I'd switch topics, this one is a dead end.

No it is not. Let's say that MM and RE4 wii are in the top ten:

Now you have 8 games at 80%+ and 2 games at 90%+. 360 has 49 games at 80%+ and 6 games at 90%+.

That's great news for 360, it is a rather great system that's been out for a year longer than everyone else. If you're trying ot prove that 360 is better at teh moment, than congrats man, you have. I don't see how that makes wii a bad system though. How a system that's been out a year and has had an extra holiday season worth of releases help it make this system a pathetic peice of plastic. I always use ps3 in my debates and that's for a reason, because it's on the same timescale as wii.

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Kaze_no_Mirai

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#157 Kaze_no_Mirai
Member since 2004 • 11763 Posts
[QUOTE="-RPGamer-"]

Well actually Wii has:

+90% - 2

80%-89.9% - 6

Not sure how that really debunks his statements, maybe his exact numbers but he's not far off. And one of those two above 90% is actually Manhunt 2.

-RPGamer-

Per request of someone else...

Well actuallyPS3 has:

+90% - 1

80%-89.9% - 14

Well, yeah thats a more fair comparison. I mean everyone knows that the 360 has a ton of great games and its been out for much longer.

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_Dielan_

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#158 _Dielan_
Member since 2007 • 532 Posts
Tragic it is in power and capiblity as the ps3 is tragic in sales as the 360 is tragic in falure rate and quality of games.
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jetthrovegas

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#159 jetthrovegas
Member since 2007 • 1328 Posts
Tragic it is in power and capiblity as the ps3 is tragic in sales as the 360 is tragic in falure rate and quality of games._Dielan_
[QUOTE="-RPGamer-"][QUOTE="-RPGamer-"]

Well actually Wii has:

+90% - 2

80%-89.9% - 6

Not sure how that really debunks his statements, maybe his exact numbers but he's not far off. And one of those two above 90% is actually Manhunt 2.

Kaze_no_Mirai

Per request of someone else...

Well actuallyPS3 has:

+90% - 1

80%-89.9% - 14

Well, yeah thats a more fair comparison. I mean everyone knows that the 360 has a ton of great games and its been out for much longer.

I mentioned PS3 in my OP.

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jg4xchamp

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#160 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64054 Posts

issue 1- Yeah the graphics are behind. but i think they can be acceptable, but yeah WIi lost lots of games because of poor graphics compared to the other 2

Issue 2- Smash Bros, Mario Strikers, Battallion Wars 2, Madden 08 are a good start to the online. and MP3 doesnt need online. Its a hybrid FP action adventure game. Its built around a huge single player philosophy. I bet u not one single reviewer will complain about the lack of online.

Issue 3- RE 4 is number 2 on the wiis top 5 on gamerankings. thats 3rd party. and Zack and Wikki, Nights, Dewys Adventure, Soul Caliber Legends, Nomore Heroes, Sadness, DQ swords, etc are looking interesting. but yeah 3rd party needs to step it up.

Issue 4- I believe Nintendo has7 overall games over the 80% barrier. with RE 4 being the second 90% not sure. but im pretty sure RE 4 did. Anyway It will not catch 360 in games, neither will PS3 this year. the PS3 got 5 AAA titles, and like 25-40 AA games in 1 year. So no thats alot to make up with 360 doing so great this year to begin with. However the wii library will improve the most IMO by the end of the year.

Issue 5- Thats all devs fault IMO. THe controller is not the problem, its the dev not willing to put the extra effort. THe controller to me can be alot more innovative and creative towards a game. the controller is a huge plus. it needs the devs to step up. ALso SPiderman 3 the movie sucked. ofcourse the game would suck to.

Anyway software sales would stop Nintendo from going 100% casual. casuals dont by alot of software. look at 360 software sales. all those hardcore gamers are putting in overtime. So we will see lots of hardcore games. and with the new market nintendo brought in and new fanbase Nintendo has added on to its Original. Yeah the next system will be graphically up to par with PS4 and Xbox 720. Nintendo will take the next step, and go for dominating the entire market on an innovative controller and graphics. not that it will succeed because i believe all 3 companies will be competitve for the next couple of gens.

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jg4xchamp

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#161 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64054 Posts

ok Wii has 1 AAA and 6 AA on gamerankings.
-Zelda TP is 94
-with Superpaper Mario, Mercury Meltdown, WarioWare, and Truama Center being the WIi AA exclusives. and Madden 07 and RE 4 being AA multiplats. RE 4 is at 89.7 with only 14 reviews theres still some future AAA reviews left over.SO RE 4 should be the second AAA.
PS3 has 1 AAA and10 AA on gamerankings.
-Oblivion is 93
- With Resistance, Motorstorm being PS3 AA exclusives. and Virtua Fighter 5 being only a timed exclusive. the rest are Call of Duty 2, Fight Night Round 3, Tiger Woods, NBA 2K7,Virtua Tennis, and i guess the Darkness as well so thats really 10 AA games. With only 2 being exclusives.

So right now PS3 has the better overall library. Wii has the better exclusive library. Wii has the higher critically acclaimed AAA.
Neither of the 3 has a AAA exclusive thats a universal AAA(meaning its AAA on gamerankings or metacritic which implies lots of reviews for the game was AAA)

and both libraries suck compared to the 360.

Seriousaly you people are arguing whos second. Thats not special in a 3 horse race.

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scorpionldr

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#162 scorpionldr
Member since 2004 • 187 Posts

[QUOTE="NATATO"]Would you stop posting all this Wii hating garbage. jetthrovegas

Read my post please, good sir. I think you will find it logical and well thought out. There is no hate here.

we've cleared up PS3's sucking compared to x360 because of a year headstart, same thing applies to wii. how many games actually DIDN'T make the 80% mark for 360? think about that and get back to me

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PaulSaysWeh

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#163 PaulSaysWeh
Member since 2007 • 31 Posts
I'd like to use myself as a good example for the Wii. I was a casual gamer, I had a ps2 last gen but mainly played games with other people,nothing "hardcore" forthe most part. This gen, I had no intention of buying another system because I expected them all to be overpriced powerhouses that wouldn't justify their purchase. When the Wii came out, I was hooked on its innovation first and its price tag second, so I made the leap and now the Wii has turned me from a casual to a hardcore, and I'meven looking into a X360 whena price drop hits... an example of the Wii saving, not killing, gaming.
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Silvereign

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#164 Silvereign
Member since 2006 • 3006 Posts
PS3 has 2 AAAs and 18 AA titles while the Wii has 2 AAAs and only 8 AA titles.
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jetthrovegas

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#165 jetthrovegas
Member since 2007 • 1328 Posts
[QUOTE="jetthrovegas"]

[QUOTE="NATATO"]Would you stop posting all this Wii hating garbage. scorpionldr

Read my post please, good sir. I think you will find it logical and well thought out. There is no hate here.

we've cleared up PS3's sucking compared to x360 because of a year headstart, same thing applies to wii. how many games actually DIDN'T make the 80% mark for 360? think about that and get back to me

How many games DIDN'T make it is completely irrelevant. You judge a system its best games, not by its worst. The 360 has 49 80%+ and 6 90%+ games. Even with a headstart that is impressive.

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PDark_Prodigy

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#166 PDark_Prodigy
Member since 2005 • 566 Posts
In no way do see the Wii as tragic to gamers
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jetthrovegas

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#167 jetthrovegas
Member since 2007 • 1328 Posts
In no way do see the Wii as tragic to gamersPDark_Prodigy
And you represent all gamers right?
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voxware00

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#168 voxware00
Member since 2004 • 5018 Posts

PS3 has 2 AAAs and 18 AA titles while the Wii has 2 AAAs and only 8 AA titles.Silvereign

your numbers are off

youre counting downloadables for ps3 but not the wii

the wii would have 17 aa then

and exclusively, the wii has more aaa, aa, and a games than the ps3

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25598985

Totals

PC: 316
PS2: 269
X-Box: 187
Gamecube: 110
X-Box 360: 48
PS3: 18
Wii: 17

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PDark_Prodigy

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#169 PDark_Prodigy
Member since 2005 • 566 Posts

[QUOTE="PDark_Prodigy"]In no way do see the Wii as tragic to gamersjetthrovegas
And you represent all gamers right?

No, just merely stating my opinion

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jetthrovegas

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#170 jetthrovegas
Member since 2007 • 1328 Posts

[QUOTE="Silvereign"]PS3 has 2 AAAs and 18 AA titles while the Wii has 2 AAAs and only 8 AA titles.voxware00

your numbers are off

youre counting downloadables for ps3 but not the wii

the wii would have 17 aa then

and exclusively, the wii has more aaa, aa, and a games than the ps3

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25598985

Totals

PC: 316
PS2: 269
X-Box: 187
Gamecube: 110
X-Box 360: 48
PS3: 18
Wii: 17

His numbers are off... he's using GS.

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kittykatz5k

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#171 kittykatz5k
Member since 2004 • 32249 Posts

*shakes head*

Kid, know when it is your time for your thread to die, do not spend the next 3 days bumping BS like this just because you want it to grow. Every fact at this point has pretty much been discussed, debated, and is now old news.

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jetthrovegas

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#172 jetthrovegas
Member since 2007 • 1328 Posts

*shakes head*

Kid, know when it is your time for your thread to die, do not spend the next 3 days bumping BS like this just because you want it to grow. Every fact at this point has pretty much been discussed, debated, and is now old news.

kittykatz5k

This thread started yesterday.

Old news to you. You never defeated any of my points. You just sit around making snide little comments with all the logic of a cow genocider.

You call me "kid" to attempt to discredit me, when, in fact, my thread is quite well thought out and reasonable.

If you want to debate the thread itself then go ahead. But stop sitting around making lazyass observations like "this thread is teh over!!11"

Use logic man.

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efg7721

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#173 efg7721
Member since 2005 • 285 Posts

PS3 has 2 AAAs and 18 AA titles while the Wii has 2 AAAs and only 8 AA titles.Silvereign

dont forget mgs 4 killzone 2 haze rfom 2

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jetthrovegas

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#174 jetthrovegas
Member since 2007 • 1328 Posts

[QUOTE="Silvereign"]PS3 has 2 AAAs and 18 AA titles while the Wii has 2 AAAs and only 8 AA titles.efg7721

dont forget mgs 4 killzone 2 haze rfom 2

Lol, released...

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efg7721

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#175 efg7721
Member since 2005 • 285 Posts

if u call 49 80%+ and 6 90%+ games where most are ports impressive then look at the last gen

how about you look at all the ps2s 80% and 90% games then youll see somethin impressive

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Titan_V

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#176 Titan_V
Member since 2005 • 114 Posts

I'll agree that this isn't your typical "Wii sucks" thread, as you seem to have put some actual THOUGHT into your post, but I'd like to point out some things that may or may not have been mentioned already in this thread.

The Wii is truly the most tragic games console I have ever seen. It's unique controls could have made it the greatest game console this generation, but it is lacking in several key areas:

I. Power- This is the most obvious issue (not nearlythe most important, as gameplay> graphics). The Wii, despite its unique controllers, is leaps and bounds behind the 360 and PS3 in terms of graphical horsepower, meaning that many games that could benefit from motion control, (like GTA IV and RE5), cannot be ported to it. This is a shame seeing as how the Wii could have the edge on many multiplats do due it's control setup. RE4 Wii proved that ports can be done right, but it was a last gen game. It is rather unfortuante that RE5 (along with many other potentially great Wii games)will not be on this system.

Agreed on the power and gameplay > graphics, but since when has ports and multiplats made a system (or sold one)?

I'd like to ask you, or anyone who has ever called the Wii a "GC 1.5," what would that make the PS2 to the PS1, and the GC to the N64? Graphicaly, games released at the beginning of the 6th gen weren't much better than those at the end of the 5th. Wouldn't that effectively make the PS2 a PS1.5 and a GC a N64.5?

II. Online- The biggest problem with the Wii's online gaming is that, well, there really isn't any. The only game that supports online is Pokemon Battle Revolution, and that game has absolutely failed critically. Also, the die hard pokemon fans that buy the game will find, according to IGN, that the game has trouble connecting to the Wi-fi system to find a match. Nintendo promised online, but so far it just hasn't happened. SSBB might change that, but it's a shame that it will have taken Nintendo a year to get up one decent online title, when PS3 and 360's online is up and running dozens of games, and hundreds of thousands ofmatches daily. The fact that MP3 lacks multiplayer will not help this trend.

It exists, though devs aren't seeming to use it much. Nintendo has next to no online experience prior to the Wii and DS (though the GC did technically have online capabilities, though I think only one game was ever made for it, that being Phantasy Star). The PS2 had it's fair share of faults as does the Wii (can't speak for the Xbox since I never had one). So I think next gen, we'll see better online support for whatever Nintendo makes next.

But personally, I don't care about online play on a console. PC online play is much better than on consoles, so I typically stick with that.

III. Lack ofthird party support- The top 3 of the top 5 ratedWii games onGamerankings are first party games. The highest rated third party Wii game is Madden NFL 07 which carries a decent rating of 81.6 %.

True as of right now, but we're starting to see devs turn their attention away from the PS3 to the Wii.

IV. Lack of quality titles-The Wii has a total of 6 games that managed to break the 80% rating barrier, and one that broke the 90% barrier (Zelda TP),whereas the Xbox 360 has 6 games that broke the 90% barrier, and 49 games that broke the 80% barrier. The PS3 is slighty ahead of the Wii in the games department, with 10 games that broke 80% and and 1 game that broke 90%.

Unless the Wii gets 49 80%+ games and 5 90%+ games this year, it will remain behind the Xbox 360 in the games department.

A lot of the PS3's are ports and multiplats though, while the Wii has more exclusives. Look at the AAA's... While both the Wii and PS3 have the same number of AAA games, niether one of the PS3's are exclusives while one of the Wii's is.

You can't really use the 360 in this argument, it's been out for a year longer and will naturally have more, higher rated titles than both the Wii and PS3 because devs have had more time to make them.

Lastly, for the most part this entire argument is opinion based, because some people like me would rather play Zelda or SPM than GTA or Halo.

V. Controllers hinder ports-The unique Wiicontrollercauses troublewith 3rd party games meant for all the consoles. The PS3 and Xbox 360 both still use controllers very similar to their predecessors, which mean that most basic console games, such as sports games and adventure/action games will still follow old controls and gameplay styling. Because of this predicament, many games will not be ported to the Wii. Even if the games do make their way to the console, there is still the strong possibility that careless developers and financial limitations will create awful controls for ports (Like Call of Duty 3, or Spider Man 3).

Again, when has ports made a system? And you kinda contradict yourself, since in #1 you say ports CAN and have been done right on the Wii.

Developers and gamers are still having a hard time to work out fluid gameplay and the camera at the same time. People need to watch out for a few important aspects for the controller at the same time: motion sensory, camera, and controls. This will most likely be a problem with most non-exclusive 3rd party titles for the first and second generation titles, meaning all of 2007 and most of 2008.

Unfortunately, many of the above issues are due directly to hardware issues, meaning that Nintendo gamers will have to put up with a lot of these problems for the entire generation. Obviously, developers are going to learn to use the hardware better and the games willbegin to become higher in quality, but we probably won't start seeing high quality third party ports until 2008+.

And nothing will change the fact that the Wii simply cannot handle some ports graphically without changing the entire game, like we saw with Spiderman 3.

And the biggest problem of all for hardcore gamers: Sales.

Casual gamers have justified Nintendo releasing their system by purchasing tons of units. Don't get me wrong, the Wii is a sales phenomenon, only the hardest of haters could deny that. The Wii will outsell 360 and PS3 byholiday 2008, if not before.

But the question is this: If Nintendo can sell so many units to casuals and non-gamers even with the aforementioned issues, what's to stop them from abandoning the hardcore gaming market altogether? A hardcore gamer would be anyone that puts the majority of their time into gaming. There are a lot of people who are hardcore gamers and Wii owners such as myself. It's hard to abandon the hardcore market. What if their next system is an underpowered one, that appeals to casuals with a friendly price and gimmicky mini-games? There's way more games than just mini-game titles. How soon before the onlydeepgames are first party ones? How soon before those titles get placed on the backburner in favor of Cooking Mama and mini-game collections?
After all, if the bread and butter of the Wii's sales are casuals and non-gamers, why does Nintendo need you?

The "non-gamer" crap is getting old. There's no such thing as a non-gamer that plays games.

Overall the Wii represents a golden financial oppurtunity for Nintendo... and a horrible tragedy for the gamers that made the company what it is.

The gamers that made the company what it is are the same ones buying and enjoying the system. It's bringing people who haven't played since the NES days back into games. The VC is a definite plus to old school gamers too, who love to play the older games.

jetthrovegas
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efg7721

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#177 efg7721
Member since 2005 • 285 Posts
[QUOTE="efg7721"]

[QUOTE="Silvereign"]PS3 has 2 AAAs and 18 AA titles while the Wii has 2 AAAs and only 8 AA titles.jetthrovegas

dont forget mgs 4 killzone 2 haze rfom 2

Lol, released...

i didnt say they were released i was just listing some exclusive games

that will be released on the ps3

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jetthrovegas

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#178 jetthrovegas
Member since 2007 • 1328 Posts
[QUOTE="jetthrovegas"][QUOTE="efg7721"]

[QUOTE="Silvereign"]PS3 has 2 AAAs and 18 AA titles while the Wii has 2 AAAs and only 8 AA titles.efg7721

dont forget mgs 4 killzone 2 haze rfom 2

Lol, released...

i didnt say they were released i was just listing some exclusive games

that will be released on the ps3

I thought you were implying that the above titles added to the AA/AAA lists of the ps3.