The Wii only has sales...thats it.

I don't care about your silly Lenin banner. What you advocate - a single console or, at the very least, a single console design a la 3DO - is precisely the result of a Communist model applied to the context of the video game industry. These competing consoles that you hate so much are what drive competition. Why don't we destroy everything Adam Smith taught us in the first place, eh?  

I don't think I've ever said there should be no competition within the industry of gaming.  The greater problem is that console makers compete with each other in all the wrong ways (namely through franchise labels, customer loyalty, and recently reaching out to a broader market) and their competition is naturally against the consumers best interest, stifles inovation, and helps turn gaming into little more than a petty race to predict and meet consumer demand.

I simply advocate that consoles compete by producing the most powerful hardware at the lowest price possible, and leaving it up to developers and publishers to create game-content that has nothing to do with a console.  I don't like creating weird and objective arguements about any other aspect of a console other than the cost and performance of its hardware.  We should leave it up to developers, who can produce games for all consoles freely and independent of consumer demand, and appreciate games for their intrinsic value (not because it has a marketing icon across the front -- or because the game is made by X company). 

Oh god, I simply call for using the same standards we use to judge every other form of visual media by to be applied to gaming -- instead of the childish, tired, and strange little bubble of consumerism that the key players in this industry have blown around the average gamer.

Forever Blue? That franchise has never gotten above a 6.Samurai_Xavier

That's not the game you're thinking about. Many have made that mistake.

[QUOTE="Tristam22"][QUOTE="FoamingPanda"][QUOTE="kansasdude2009"][QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

I'm sorry, but Nintendo has successfully lowered your standards and expectations if you consider ancient, shallow, and cliche franchises to be the flagships of innovation, fun, and "next-gen" content.

The Wii has one thing over the other consoles -- a form of input that some users enjoy and perfer. Unfortunately, input can now be standardized as a USB device (and should have been standardized as USB devices by all consoles of this generation) and this small advancement should not be raised as an incentive to purchase an antiquated peice of hardware.

The hardware itself is a pile of garbage, a rip off for consumers, and a disgrace to this industry. Nintendo's marketing strategy butchers gaming quality, limits the functionality of gaming, and exists soley to make profit by catering to the lowest possible denominator of consumer demand.

Nintendo does not care about gaining third party support or making games for you. They are exploiting your love for marketing icons and nostalgic formats while they push their product onto a broader market. Once they aquire that market, they'll throw you an old bone once in the while, but your purpose and function is complete.

Enjoy playing the reptitive junk your demand has created. I just hope it stays confined within this sick and sad console. Let us hope this marketing strategy does not spread outside Nintendo or breach the mainstream market.

FoamingPanda

have anything to back up those large statements? Didn't think so...

Basic economic theory and the buisness models of about any successful company functioning in the modern capitalist system.

Not enough? Pay me 30 dollars a hour, and I'll sit here and emperically crunch numbers until I can shove it in the Nintendo fan's face. The observations within the arguement are so obvious, and so clearly infront of you, that you're either in a state of disillusionment (which most Nintendo fans are) or your standards have simply been lowered to render you oblivious to what is actually occuring.

Fortunately, your wish for a Communist model won't come true. Suck it up and move on. 

Wow? A communist model?  That would be worse than what Nintendo is attempting to do the market right now.

Remind me to take down the banner on my profile page -- some people can't take a joke.

I read all the trash that not only is in system wars but on your blog that claims the Wii is garbage. You honestly think that all of us on the System Wars are mere fanboys with a vocab "lik dis?????" Honestly, you claim all of this "Pleasure 1 and Pleasure 2" crap, but honestly, it's a seemingly clever way to continue to bash the Wii. The blog has the attitude written all over it. By that I mean that you're practically basing 6 months in a systems life and bashing it saying the Wii is simple, and only enjoyable at the start. Take Zelda for instance. In my friends' and my opinion, the beginning sucked, eliminating your "Pleasure 1 is used by Nintendo to make garbage and make it look good." Then the game picks up. Many of the "Pleasure" trash you wrote in your blog also applies to Sony's and 360's games. Stop dressing up random fanboy trash to look like it's sophisticated.

Forever Blue? That franchise has never gotten above a 6.Samurai_Xavier

Under nintendo supervision? Maybe... it looks amazing one way or the other

[QUOTE="Samurai_Xavier"]Forever Blue? That franchise has never gotten above a 6.ShakeNBake1491

That's not the game you're thinking about. Many have made that mistake.

ya, forever blue is new.

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"][QUOTE="kansasdude2009"][QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

I'm sorry, but Nintendo has successfully lowered your standards and expectations if you consider ancient, shallow, and cliche franchises to be the flagships of innovation, fun, and "next-gen" content.

The Wii has one thing over the other consoles -- a form of input that some users enjoy and perfer. Unfortunately, input can now be standardized as a USB device (and should have been standardized as USB devices by all consoles of this generation) and this small advancement should not be raised as an incentive to purchase an antiquated peice of hardware.

The hardware itself is a pile of garbage, a rip off for consumers, and a disgrace to this industry. Nintendso's marketing strategy butchers gaming quality, limits the functionality of gaming, and exists soley to make profit by catering to the lowest possible denominator of consumer demand.

Nintendo does not care about gaining third party support or making games for you. They are exploiting your love for marketing icons and nostalgic formats while they push their product onto a broader market. Once they aquire that market, they'll throw you an old bone once in the while, but your purpose and function is complete.

Enjoy playing the reptitive junk your demand has created. I just hope it stays confined within this sick and sad console. Let us hope this marketing strategy does not spread outside Nintendo or breach the mainstream market.

kansasdude2009

have anything to back up those large statements? Didn't think so...

Basic economic theory and the buisness models of about any successful company functioning in the modern capitalist system.

Not enough? Pay me 30 dollars a hour, and I'll sit here and emperically crunch numbers until I can shove it in the Nintendo fan's face. The observations within the arguement are so obvious, and so clearly infront of you, that you're either in a state of disillusionment (which most Nintendo fans are) or your standards have simply been lowered to render you oblivious to what is actually occuring.

lol, ok... let me now prove that everything you said was an empty statement.

"The Wii has one thing over the other consoles -- a form of input that some users enjoy and perfer. Unfortunately, input can now be standardized as a USB device (and should have been standardized as USB devices by all consoles of this generation) and this small advancement should not be raised as an incentive to purchase an antiquated peice of hardware."

Standards change, and as you have clearly said... some perfer this input meaning that to some... it is superior thus people buy it. To say that this does not justify a purchase is beyond me if one perfers it and thus you contradicted yourself.

The hardware itself is a pile of garbage, a rip off for consumers, and a disgrace to this industry. Nintendso's marketing strategy butchers gaming quality, limits the functionality of gaming, and exists soley to make profit by catering to the lowest possible denominator of consumer demand.

You showed nothing here other then that you really dont like Nintendo as this is clearly an empty statement that can not be taken as fact or even reasonable opinion.

Nintendo does not care about gaining third party support or making games for you. They are exploiting your love for marketing icons and nostalgic formats while they push their product onto a broader market. Once they aquire that market, they'll throw you an old bone once in the while, but your purpose and function is complete.

If nintendo did not care, they would not be in the business. If they did not care, they would have not spent 4 years on one game (Zelda TP) and let it go early knowing it would sell like crazy. Why didMario, Zelda, and Metroid BECOME icons? Maybe its because they have great games? Why is Final Fantays on its 13th installment? Because people like Final Fantasy. When most developers use a franchise and ruin it (sonic), Nintendo has continually evolved to fit a new market. Nintendo also has new franchises, ones that will appeal to a different audience... Disaster Day of Crisis, Project HAMMER, and more... Once again... an empty statement.

Let me also say to you that I own a PS2, Xbox, GameCube, Wii and 360 and my standars have not changed since as I currently play more of my Wii then I do my 360.

But that doesn't make sense. You just said previously, the 360 is your favorite next gen console.

 Did I miss something?

I see PS3 is going strong

X360 vs PS3   was 10:1 and now is 9:3

Wii vs PS3      was 5:1 and now is 2:1

um ... pretty good :)

I don't care about your silly Lenin banner. What you advocate - a single console or, at the very least, a single console design a la 3DO - is precisely the result of a Communist model applied to the context of the video game industry. These competing consoles that you hate so much are what drive competition. Why don't we destroy everything Adam Smith taught us in the first place, eh?

FoamingPanda

I don't think I've ever said there should be no competition within the industry of gaming. The greater problem is that console makers compete with each other in all the wrong ways (namely through franchise labels, customer loyalty, and recently reaching out to a broader market) and their competition is naturally against the consumers best interest, stifles inovation, and helps turn gaming into little more than a petty race to predict and meet consumer demand.

I simply advocate that consoles compete by producing the most powerful hardware at the lowest price possible, and leaving it up to developers and publishers to create game-content that has nothing to do with a console. I don't like creating weird and objective arguements about any other aspect of a console other than the cost and performance of its hardware. We should leave it up to developers, who can produce games for all consoles freely and independent of consumer demand, and appreciate games for their intrinsic value (not because it has a marketing icon across the front -- or because the game is made by X company).

Oh god, I simply call for using the same standards we use to judge every other form of visual media by to be applied to gaming -- instead of the childish, tired, and strange little bubble of consumerism that the key players in this industry have blown around the average gamer.

Console makers have ALWAYS competed on ALL those fronts. Again, capitalism is about predicting and meeting consumer demand. Your desire for a console with the "most powerful hardware and lowest price possible" is left up to whatever hardware manufacturer has the most money: not only can they invest more into hardware development, but they can sell at a significant loss without worry. Thus, there would be a SINGLE console on the market, completely eliminating competition and fulfilling Lenin's wildest dreams for any industry.

[QUOTE="kansasdude2009"][QUOTE="FoamingPanda"][QUOTE="kansasdude2009"][QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

I'm sorry, but Nintendo has successfully lowered your standards and expectations if you consider ancient, shallow, and cliche franchises to be the flagships of innovation, fun, and "next-gen" content.

The Wii has one thing over the other consoles -- a form of input that some users enjoy and perfer. Unfortunately, input can now be standardized as a USB device (and should have been standardized as USB devices by all consoles of this generation) and this small advancement should not be raised as an incentive to purchase an antiquated peice of hardware.

The hardware itself is a pile of garbage, a rip off for consumers, and a disgrace to this industry. Nintendso's marketing strategy butchers gaming quality, limits the functionality of gaming, and exists soley to make profit by catering to the lowest possible denominator of consumer demand.

Nintendo does not care about gaining third party support or making games for you. They are exploiting your love for marketing icons and nostalgic formats while they push their product onto a broader market. Once they aquire that market, they'll throw you an old bone once in the while, but your purpose and function is complete.

Enjoy playing the reptitive junk your demand has created. I just hope it stays confined within this sick and sad console. Let us hope this marketing strategy does not spread outside Nintendo or breach the mainstream market.

VERTIGO47

have anything to back up those large statements? Didn't think so...

Basic economic theory and the buisness models of about any successful company functioning in the modern capitalist system.

Not enough? Pay me 30 dollars a hour, and I'll sit here and emperically crunch numbers until I can shove it in the Nintendo fan's face. The observations within the arguement are so obvious, and so clearly infront of you, that you're either in a state of disillusionment (which most Nintendo fans are) or your standards have simply been lowered to render you oblivious to what is actually occuring.

lol, ok... let me now prove that everything you said was an empty statement.

"The Wii has one thing over the other consoles -- a form of input that some users enjoy and perfer. Unfortunately, input can now be standardized as a USB device (and should have been standardized as USB devices by all consoles of this generation) and this small advancement should not be raised as an incentive to purchase an antiquated peice of hardware."

Standards change, and as you have clearly said... some perfer this input meaning that to some... it is superior thus people buy it. To say that this does not justify a purchase is beyond me if one perfers it and thus you contradicted yourself.

The hardware itself is a pile of garbage, a rip off for consumers, and a disgrace to this industry. Nintendso's marketing strategy butchers gaming quality, limits the functionality of gaming, and exists soley to make profit by catering to the lowest possible denominator of consumer demand.

You showed nothing here other then that you really dont like Nintendo as this is clearly an empty statement that can not be taken as fact or even reasonable opinion.

Nintendo does not care about gaining third party support or making games for you. They are exploiting your love for marketing icons and nostalgic formats while they push their product onto a broader market. Once they aquire that market, they'll throw you an old bone once in the while, but your purpose and function is complete.

If nintendo did not care, they would not be in the business. If they did not care, they would have not spent 4 years on one game (Zelda TP) and let it go early knowing it would sell like crazy. Why didMario, Zelda, and Metroid BECOME icons? Maybe its because they have great games? Why is Final Fantays on its 13th installment? Because people like Final Fantasy. When most developers use a franchise and ruin it (sonic), Nintendo has continually evolved to fit a new market. Nintendo also has new franchises, ones that will appeal to a different audience... Disaster Day of Crisis, Project HAMMER, and more... Once again... an empty statement.

Let me also say to you that I own a PS2, Xbox, GameCube, Wii and 360 and my standars have not changed since as I currently play more of my Wii then I do my 360.

But that doesn't make sense. You just said previously, the 360 is your favorite next gen console.

Did I miss something?

it is my favorite console... it has given me Oblivion, GeOW, R6V, GRAW, and Kameo... I play my Wii more now because of SPM! :D 

[QUOTE="MasterChumly"][QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

I'm sorry, but Nintendo has successfully lowered your standards and expectations if you consider ancient, shallow, and cliche franchises to be the flagships of innovation, fun, and "next-gen" content.

The Wii has one thing over the other consoles -- a form of input that some users enjoy and perfer. Unfortunately, input can now be standardized as a USB device (and should have been standardized as USB devices by all consoles of this generation) and this small advancement should not be raised as an incentive to purchase an antiquated peice of hardware.

The hardware itself is a pile of garbage, a rip off for consumers, and a disgrace to this industry. Nintendo's marketing strategy butchers gaming quality, limits the functionality of gaming, and exists soley to make profit by catering to the lowest possible denominator of consumer demand.

Nintendo does not care about gaining third party support or making games for you. They are exploiting your love for marketing icons and nostalgic formats while they push their product onto a broader market. Once they aquire that market, they'll throw you an old bone once in the while, but your purpose and function is complete.

Enjoy playing the reptitive junk your demand has created. I just hope it stays confined within this sick and sad console. Let us hope this marketing strategy does not spread outside Nintendo or breach the mainstream market.

FoamingPanda

:lol: This joke of a poster again? I hope your seriously being paid to do this.

I know. It must be terribly painful to see a panda rip into an object you desire, eviserate its shallow and hollow corpse, and hold the cold guts of truth up before your very eyes to see.

As I've said, I don't expect most Nintendo fans to accept my arguements (if they can even understand them without terrible misinterpretations), no matter how valid or objective they appear. Fanboyism and gaming is like a rampant disease which leave the party in question unable to unbiasly or critically consider objects anymore.

How could someone possibly misinterprat your post above? Your responce to this thread and what you stated as reasons for your argument are preatty much crystal clear from your part. 

Standards change, and as you have clearly said... some perfer this input meaning that to some... it is superior thus people buy it. To say that this does not justify a purchase is beyond me if one perfers it and thus you contradicted yourself.

Controllers are a form of taste.  No aspect of a controller makes it origonally better than any other controller.
The function of a controller is simple -- provide the most direct and simple aspect of control possible.  I like the wiimote.  It's a great control format for some genres.  If you'd care to read the main clause within this idea -- THAT STANDARDIZING CONTROLLER FORMAT AS A USB DEVICE has been around for YEARS now -- you might understand why it is conceptually RIDICULOUS to cite a controller as a console's strength or weakness.  All consoles should simply slap a USB device on the front, and leave it up to developers to decide which control formats they perfer in their games.

You showed nothing here other then that you really dont like Nintendo as this is clearly an empty statement that can not be taken as fact or even reasonable opinion.

The hardware is antiquated by contemporary market standards.  If you can't accept this, you are either unaware of benchmarks and the quality of the hardware, or you have changed the definition of hardward efficency.  The performance to cost ratio is ridiculous -- a consumer should not be paying 250USD for a Wii.  It's not as terrible as some other consoles in this industry, but it still slaps each and every person across the face the second they purchase a Wii.

Nintendo's mission statement explicitly limits the functionality of gaming.  This limitation has been inflicted upon the hardware within the machine, which could have easily been designed around next-gen standards, and allows developers far fewer and broader options when programming games.

If nintendo did not care, they would not be in the business. If they did not care, they would have not spent 4 years on one  game (Zelda TP) and let it go early knowing it would sell like crazy. Why didMario, Zelda, and Metroid BECOME icons? Maybe its because they have great games? Why is Final Fantays on its 13th installment? Because people like Final Fantasy. When most developers use a franchise and ruin it (sonic), Nintendo has continually evolved to fit a new market. Nintendo also has new franchises, ones that will appeal to a different audience... Disaster Day of Crisis, Project HAMMER, and more... Once again... an empty statement.

Maybe because the average gamer's standards have been lowered so terribly that they differ from any other standard used to evaluate any other form of media.  We have been trained and pre-conditioned to place too much value on the strictly visual and "fun" (in the narrowest definition of the term) aspects of a game.  We get next-gen hardware and next-gen gameplay and physics, but much of the content we endure is well-over two generations old.  I won't go into detail, see my blog. 

Console makers have ALWAYS competed on ALL those fronts. Again, capitalism is about predicting and meeting consumer demand. Your desire for a console with the "most powerful hardware and lowest price possible" is left up to whatever hardware manufacturer has the most money: not only can they invest more into hardware development, but they can sell at a significant loss without worry. Thus, there would be a SINGLE console on the market, completely eliminating competition and fulfilling Lenin's wildest dreams for any industry.

Only because technology made the competition absolutely neccessary.  Now we possess the ability to create logical points of standardization (USB devices for example).   And, I hate to break this to you, but meaningful forms of artistic expression (which games are more than capable of becoming -- a few already are) are more about articulating an impulse and sharing inner feelings you have towards external things that meeting the demands of consumers.  Before mass advertising and marketing completely destroy consumer expectations and taste, we come to appreciate works of art in themselves; not because they simply meet our demand or make us happy. 

I never knew technological development was solely influenced by capital.   Hell, we see several examples of toying with design types this generation. Making an insane jump in processor design, the cell for example, or favoring a more traditional GPU heavy system as found in the 360.  COULD one console come to dominate the market?  Definately.  But accomplishing such a feat, by hardware quality alone, would be extremely difficult.

I don't exactly see your arguement as applicable to any other electronic device that accomplishes a unified function and end -- DVD and VCR players, for example.

All this success can only mean one thing........... Nintendo will release a real next gen machine as their next console. Imagine

a mario game that runs on ps3 type of machine. Talk about a nintendo fans dream come true.

Standards change, and as you have clearly said... some perfer this input meaning that to some... it is superior thus people buy it. To say that this does not justify a purchase is beyond me if one perfers it and thus you contradicted yourself.FoamingPanda

Controllers are a form of taste. No aspect of a controller makes it origonally better than any other controller.
The function of a controller is simple -- provide the most direct and simple aspect of control possible. I like the wiimote. It's a great control format for some genres. If you'd care to read the main clause within this idea -- THAT STANDARDIZING CONTROLLER FORMAT AS A USB DEVICE has been around for YEARS now -- you might understand why it is conceptually RIDICULOUS to cite a controller as a console's strength or weakness. All consoles should simply slap a USB device on the front, and leave it up to developers to decide which control formats they perfer in their games.

You showed nothing here other then that you really dont like Nintendo as this is clearly an empty statement that can not be taken as fact or even reasonable opinion.

The hardware is antiquated by contemporary market standards. If you can't accept this, you are either unaware of benchmarks and the quality of the hardware, or you have changed the definition of hardward efficency. The performance to cost ratio is ridiculous -- a consumer should not be paying 250USD for a Wii. It's not as terrible as some other consoles in this industry, but it still slaps each and every person across the face the second they purchase a Wii.

Nintendo's mission statement explicitly limits the functionality of gaming. This limitation has been inflicted upon the hardware within the machine, which could have easily been designed around next-gen standards, and allows developers far fewer and broader options when programming games.

If nintendo did not care, they would not be in the business. If they did not care, they would have not spent 4 years on one game (Zelda TP) and let it go early knowing it would sell like crazy. Why didMario, Zelda, and Metroid BECOME icons? Maybe its because they have great games? Why is Final Fantays on its 13th installment? Because people like Final Fantasy. When most developers use a franchise and ruin it (sonic), Nintendo has continually evolved to fit a new market. Nintendo also has new franchises, ones that will appeal to a different audience... Disaster Day of Crisis, Project HAMMER, and more... Once again... an empty statement.

Maybe because the average gamer's standards have been lowered so terribly that they differ from any other standard used to evaluate any other form of media. We have been trained and pre-conditioned to place too much value on the strictly visual and "fun" (in the narrowest definition of the term) aspects of a game. We get next-gen hardware and next-gen gameplay and physics, but much of the content we endure is well-over two generations old. I won't go into detail, see my blog.

Controllers are a form of taste, and before the Wii-mote it was nothing but pressing buttons and moving your thumbs. Because nintendo decided to go a different route does not make it wrong, or that the should not do it. They have changed the image of a gamer from being in a dark room staring at a glowing screen to being active with people and having pure fun. Such a drastic change is clearly a reason to buy a system. I love playing deep and engaging games in a dark room on my 360, but pull it out for social gatherings and people shy away. But with the Wii I get engaging titles such as Zelda and SPM and all of my family loves it, and it instantly becomes the life of a party! This justifies its price in everyway imo, for I have never gotten more use out of a gaming console!

I agree with your second statement almost completely, but as I have stated above... I have never gotten more use out of a gaming console and I am happy that I bought it!

The Wii is cheaper to develop fo and does not leave behind smaller developers that can not make a 20 million dollar game. What nintendo is doing may not be regular, or agree whith what you think is right, but if Nintendo is risking the chance of giving developers fewer options (making it less appealing to develop for), then good for them... it seems to be working, and im will be enjoying the benefits (50 dollar games, and budget games... 20 bucks for new RE4 content using the Wii-mote? im in!).

And isn't the Wii changing that 2 generation old gameplay? or at least making an attempt? Isn't it the Wii that is actually trying to change things up? It may not be the most powerful machine, but it can do most everything the 360 and PS3 can do...

I agree with some of your points, but you miss mine... The Wii has software... good software, and not lowered standards software, but actual great software that will be fun and justify purchasing one...

Well-done Post.

That post was solid as ****

I won't bash or anythng about it, very well though it's just most of those games don't excite me in the least.  I will buy SMG and MP3 and maybe SSBB......but other than that, I could honestly only see myself MABYE buying Disaster or Project Hammer pending on stellar reviews. I think more might agree w/ me,  but that's my opinion.

Console makers have ALWAYS competed on ALL those fronts. Again, capitalism is about predicting and meeting consumer demand. Your desire for a console with the "most powerful hardware and lowest price possible" is left up to whatever hardware manufacturer has the most money: not only can they invest more into hardware development, but they can sell at a significant loss without worry. Thus, there would be a SINGLE console on the market, completely eliminating competition and fulfilling Lenin's wildest dreams for any industry.

FoamingPanda

Only because technology made the competition absolutely neccessary. Now we possess the ability to create logical points of standardization (USB devices for example). And, I hate to break this to you, but meaningful forms of artistic expression (which games are more than capable of becoming -- a few already are) are more about articulating an impulse and sharing inner feelings you have towards external things that meeting the demands of consumers. Before mass advertising and marketing completely destroy consumer expectations and taste, we come to appreciate works of art in themselves; not because they simply meet our demand or make us happy.

I never knew technological development was solely influenced by capital. Hell, we see several examples of toying with design types this generation. Making an insane jump in processor design, the cell for example, or favoring a more traditional GPU heavy system as found in the 360. COULD one console come to dominate the market? Definately. But accomplishing such a feat, by hardware quality alone, would be extremely difficult.

I don't exactly see your arguement as applicable to any other electronic device that accomplishes a unified function and end -- DVD and VCR players, for example.

I'm not even going into your "artistic expression" BS (which is completely subjective anyways; you quite obviously prefer Western RPGs and every other game is shallow, kiddy, and one step closer to destroying the industry).

As for your second point, your scenario is a picture of ONE console. I'm not speaking of a console that simply dominates the market. I'm talking about one and only one. If your wet dream is a console that achieves the most powerful hardware at the lowest cost, there will ONLY be one that does that best, and it would be the product of whatever manufacturer had the most resources (i.e., money). Come to think of it, why are you even worried about the console market anyways? Go play your PC. It achieves everything you desire of consoles. 

Again, you not only fail to separate video games from other forms of media, but also the devices that play them. The game industry != general electronics industry. You're shouting a paean to powerful hardware, but DVD players don't require more powerful hardware to read the same discs and play the same films. 

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

Console makers have ALWAYS competed on ALL those fronts. Again, capitalism is about predicting and meeting consumer demand. Your desire for a console with the "most powerful hardware and lowest price possible" is left up to whatever hardware manufacturer has the most money: not only can they invest more into hardware development, but they can sell at a significant loss without worry. Thus, there would be a SINGLE console on the market, completely eliminating competition and fulfilling Lenin's wildest dreams for any industry.

Tristam22

Only because technology made the competition absolutely neccessary. Now we possess the ability to create logical points of standardization (USB devices for example). And, I hate to break this to you, but meaningful forms of artistic expression (which games are more than capable of becoming -- a few already are) are more about articulating an impulse and sharing inner feelings you have towards external things that meeting the demands of consumers. Before mass advertising and marketing completely destroy consumer expectations and taste, we come to appreciate works of art in themselves; not because they simply meet our demand or make us happy.

I never knew technological development was solely influenced by capital. Hell, we see several examples of toying with design types this generation. Making an insane jump in processor design, the cell for example, or favoring a more traditional GPU heavy system as found in the 360. COULD one console come to dominate the market? Definately. But accomplishing such a feat, by hardware quality alone, would be extremely difficult.

I don't exactly see your arguement as applicable to any other electronic device that accomplishes a unified function and end -- DVD and VCR players, for example.

I'm not even going into your "artistic expression" BS (which is completely subjective anyways; you quite obviously prefer Western RPGs and every other game is shallow, kiddy, and one step closer to destroying the industry).

As for your second point, your scenario is a picture of ONE console. I'm not speaking of a console that simply dominates the market. I'm talking about one and only one. If your wet dream is a console that achieves the most powerful hardware at the lowest cost, there will ONLY be one that does that best, and it would be the product of whatever manufacturer had the most resources (i.e., money). Come to think of it, why are you even worried about the console market anyways? Go play your PC. It achieves everything you desire of consoles.

Again, you not only fail to separate video games from other forms of media, but also the devices that play them. The game industry != general electronics industry. You're shouting a paean to powerful hardware, but DVD players don't require more powerful hardware to read the same discs and play the same films.

agreed

I think we all need to remember why we play games. Is it because we love seeing a company dominate, or is it just to have a good time? Games like KOTOR with great stories and dramatic gameplay are great to watch unfold, while games like Super Mario Bros are just fun to master, and get good at.

Foaming Panda = Wow, just wow. You've really enviscerate Nintendo's guts and currently asking for seconds or thirds :lol:

I don't even have a Wii, since I'm waiting on the games that sheep believe will be coming, but DAMN, you seem to Rip on Nintendo and its fans with such fancy speeches. 

Why exactly do you hate Nintendo? 

Controllers are a form of taste. No aspect of a controller makes it origonally better than any other controller.

FoamingPanda

In Wii's case and this generation as a hole, I have to completely disagree with that notion. The reason for that is simply explained in the game's themselves and the possibilities each controller can provide to any and all gaming experiences.

A different input device and the way this device actually works to recreate the interaction one gains from in game, can definitely extend if not make games only possible for that certain input device.

The hardware is antiquated by contemporary market standards. If you can't accept this, you are either unaware of benchmarks and the quality of the hardware, or you have changed the definition of hardward efficency.

FoamingPanda

Well everybody preatty much knows that.

Maybe because the average gamer's standards have been lowered so terribly that they differ from any other standard used to evaluate any other form of media. We have been trained and pre-conditioned to place too much value on the strictly visual and "fun" (in the narrowest definition of the term) aspects of a game. We get next-gen hardware and next-gen gameplay and physics, but much of the content we endure is well-over two generations old. I won't go into detail, see my blog.

FoamingPanda

I actually agree with all of that and quite frankly I see the Wii being the first console in many years with the biggest possibility of breaking that mold. That of course will depend on the developers dedication and effort in actually trying to use some of their brain.

Foaming Panda = Wow, just wow. You've really enviscerate Nintendo's guts and currently asking for seconds or thirds :lol:

I don't even have a Wii, since I'm waiting on the games that sheep believe will be coming, but DAMN, you seem to Rip on Nintendo and its fans with such fancy speeches.

Why exactly do you hate Nintendo?

VERTIGO47

its currently unknown... his arguments really were a bunch of empty statements thrown as facts... just like how most cow arguments are.  

Console makers have ALWAYS competed on ALL those fronts. Again, capitalism is about predicting and meeting consumer demand. Your desire for a console with the "most powerful hardware and lowest price possible" is left up to whatever hardware manufacturer has the most money: not only can they invest more into hardware development, but they can sell at a significant loss without worry. Thus, there would be a SINGLE console on the market, completely eliminating competition and fulfilling Lenin's wildest dreams for any industry.

FoamingPanda

Only because technology made the competition absolutely neccessary.  Now we possess the ability to create logical points of standardization (USB devices for example).   And, I hate to break this to you, but meaningful forms of artistic expression (which games are more than capable of becoming -- a few already are) are more about articulating an impulse and sharing inner feelings you have towards external things that meeting the demands of consumers.  Before mass advertising and marketing completely destroy consumer expectations and taste, we come to appreciate works of art in themselves; not because they simply meet our demand or make us happy. 

I never knew technological development was solely influenced by capital.   Hell, we see several examples of toying with design types this generation. Making an insane jump in processor design, the cell for example, or favoring a more traditional GPU heavy system as found in the 360.  COULD one console come to dominate the market?  Definately.  But accomplishing such a feat, by hardware quality alone, would be extremely difficult.

I don't exactly see your arguement as applicable to any other electronic device that accomplishes a unified function and end -- DVD and VCR players, for example.

Blah Blah blah blah. Games should be about fun, and not cause you grief. Pick up Wii sports, get 4 peeps together add in some booze, and have a grand time.

ALso, get a girl and get laid.

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

Console makers have ALWAYS competed on ALL those fronts. Again, capitalism is about predicting and meeting consumer demand. Your desire for a console with the "most powerful hardware and lowest price possible" is left up to whatever hardware manufacturer has the most money: not only can they invest more into hardware development, but they can sell at a significant loss without worry. Thus, there would be a SINGLE console on the market, completely eliminating competition and fulfilling Lenin's wildest dreams for any industry.

smashed_pinata

Only because technology made the competition absolutely neccessary. Now we possess the ability to create logical points of standardization (USB devices for example). And, I hate to break this to you, but meaningful forms of artistic expression (which games are more than capable of becoming -- a few already are) are more about articulating an impulse and sharing inner feelings you have towards external things that meeting the demands of consumers. Before mass advertising and marketing completely destroy consumer expectations and taste, we come to appreciate works of art in themselves; not because they simply meet our demand or make us happy.

I never knew technological development was solely influenced by capital. Hell, we see several examples of toying with design types this generation. Making an insane jump in processor design, the cell for example, or favoring a more traditional GPU heavy system as found in the 360. COULD one console come to dominate the market? Definately. But accomplishing such a feat, by hardware quality alone, would be extremely difficult.

I don't exactly see your arguement as applicable to any other electronic device that accomplishes a unified function and end -- DVD and VCR players, for example.

Blah Blah blah blah. Games should be about fun, and not cause you grief. Pick up Wii sports, get 4 peeps together add in some booze, and have a grand time.

ALso, get a girl and get laid.

awwww life is good! :D 

Yeah the Wii has nothing else than sales, no games, not even a console!!! :lol: http://youtube.com/watch?v=pxxgEiB8gUc

Yeah the Wii has nothing else than sales, no games, not even a console!!! :lol: http://youtube.com/watch?v=pxxgEiB8gUc

 

Hir0_N

that was pretty sweet... but I wish it had more games in it. 

who says artistic games need high production values and epic storylines

look at the marriage... paint style graphics, but it relies on GAMING elements alone.. stories can be told in mediums like film, literature, tv, music is a genre all in itself... do any of these "artistic" games rely on soley GAMING elements?

this games art comes from interpretation , it's an abstract quirky game

who says artistic games need high production values and epic storylines

look at the marriage... paint style graphics, but it relies on GAMING elements alone.. stories can be told in mediums like film, literature, tv, music is a genre all in itself... do any of these "artistic" games rely on soley GAMING elements?

this games art comes from interpretation , it's an abstract quirky game

 

voxware00

what are you talking about? I agree, but where did that come from? 

Sadness no longer exists, if it did exist to begin withZeldaNut113

they said it's still in development. And it was always in development, all they need is a publisher.

Nice work. ;)foxhound_fox

thx :) 

Needs more third party. You would expect more with the cheaper developing cost.solidsnakeEx3

it has a lot more... I mentioned just mature titles to prove a point... 

[QUOTE="ZeldaNut113"]Sadness no longer exists, if it did exist to begin withcobrax80

they said it's still in development. And it was always in development, all they need is a publisher.

Nope, so much confusion about Sadness in this thread. Frontline was never the publisher, they've had a publisher since last

[QUOTE="voxware00"]

who says artistic games need high production values and epic storylines

look at the marriage... paint style graphics, but it relies on GAMING elements alone.. stories can be told in mediums like film, literature, tv, music is a genre all in itself... do any of these "artistic" games rely on soley GAMING elements?

this games art comes from interpretation , it's an abstract quirky game

 

kansasdude2009

what are you talking about? I agree, but where did that come from? 

[QUOTE="voxware00"]

who says artistic games need high production values and epic storylines

look at the marriage... paint style graphics, but it relies on GAMING elements alone.. stories can be told in mediums like film, literature, tv, music is a genre all in itself... do any of these "artistic" games rely on soley GAMING elements?

this games art comes from interpretation , it's an abstract quirky game

 

kansasdude2009

what are you talking about? I agree, but where did that come from? 

[QUOTE="kansasdude2009"][QUOTE="voxware00"]

who says artistic games need high production values and epic storylines

look at the marriage... paint style graphics, but it relies on GAMING elements alone.. stories can be told in mediums like film, literature, tv, music is a genre all in itself... do any of these "artistic" games rely on soley GAMING elements?

this games art comes from interpretation , it's an abstract quirky game

 

Shinobishyguy

what are you talking about? I agree, but where did that come from?

[QUOTE="voxware00"]

who says artistic games need high production values and epic storylines

look at the marriage... paint style graphics, but it relies on GAMING elements alone.. stories can be told in mediums like film, literature, tv, music is a genre all in itself... do any of these "artistic" games rely on soley GAMING elements?

this games art comes from interpretation , it's an abstract quirky game

 

kansasdude2009

what are you talking about? I agree, but where did that come from?

XD....haha, thx :P 

Let me ask you a question foaming panda? Why would a person with such intellectual prowess as yourself spend his time denouncing a video game console? Why I ask, when diseases are going uncured, children go hungry in the streets, and your highly valuable and thorough economic theories might be so valuable to investment firms? GO NOW! FOR THE GOOD OF THE COUNTRY! I will hold things here for you. I will continue to post mindless dribble in a vain attempt to sound intelligent. As if being the most intelligent poster on an internet video game forum was something to be proud of.

P.S. Great post Kansas Dude

I'm sorry, but Nintendo has successfully lowered your standards and expectations if you consider ancient, shallow, and cliche franchises to be the flagships of innovation, fun, and "next-gen" content.

The Wii has one thing over the other consoles -- a form of input that some users enjoy and perfer. Unfortunately, input can now be standardized as a USB device (and should have been standardized as USB devices by all consoles of this generation) and this small advancement should not be raised as an incentive to purchase an antiquated peice of hardware.

The hardware itself is a pile of garbage, a rip off for consumers, and a disgrace to this industry. Nintendo's marketing strategy butchers gaming quality, limits the functionality of gaming, and exists soley to make profit by catering to the lowest possible denominator of consumer demand.

Nintendo does not care about gaining third party support or making games for you. They are exploiting your love for marketing icons and nostalgic formats while they push their product onto a broader market. Once they aquire that market, they'll throw you an old bone once in the while, but your purpose and function is complete.

Enjoy playing the reptitive junk your demand has created. I just hope it stays confined within this sick and sad console. Let us hope this marketing strategy does not spread outside Nintendo or breach the mainstream market.

FoamingPanda

words highlighted in red = OPINION

 words highlighted in blue = GRASPING FOR STRAWS ; "TEH CONSPIRICAYY!!11!!1"

words highlighted in green = JUST PLAIN FALSE

Try using PROVEABLE statements next time ypu post.

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

I'm sorry, but Nintendo has successfully lowered your standards and expectations if you consider ancient, shallow, and cliche franchises to be the flagships of innovation, fun, and "next-gen" content.

The Wii has one thing over the other consoles -- a form of input that some users enjoy and perfer. Unfortunately, input can now be standardized as a USB device (and should have been standardized as USB devices by all consoles of this generation) and this small advancement should not be raised as an incentive to purchase an antiquated peice of hardware.

The hardware itself is a pile of garbage, a rip off for consumers, and a disgrace to this industry. Nintendo's marketing strategy butchers gaming quality, limits the functionality of gaming, and exists soley to make profit by catering to the lowest possible denominator of consumer demand.

Nintendo does not care about gaining third party support or making games for you. They are exploiting your love for marketing icons and nostalgic formats while they push their product onto a broader market. Once they aquire that market, they'll throw you an old bone once in the while, but your purpose and function is complete.

Enjoy playing the reptitive junk your demand has created. I just hope it stays confined within this sick and sad console. Let us hope this marketing strategy does not spread outside Nintendo or breach the mainstream market.

metroidprimegmr

words highlighted in red = OPINION

words highlighted in blue = GRASPING FOR STRAWS ; "TEH CONSPIRICAYY!!11!!1"

words highlighted in green = JUST PLAIN FALSE

Try using PROVEABLE statements next time ypu post.

your exactly right... Like I said eariler.... a bunch of empty statements.