The Witcher > Dragon Age

Although there is a fair bit of saving-the-world RPG claptrap involving a powerful evil mage and a mysterious group called the Salamanders, you deal with a lot of lowlifes. Woman-hating religious fanatics; merchants who deal in abducted children; slatternly bar wenches who'll bed down with you for a bottle of wine; witches who sell poison and play with voodoo dolls; racists who openly hate nonhumans and threaten to kill elves and dwarves. Make no mistake: Although there are a lot of traditional, Gygaxian monsters on the prowl here--barghests, wargs, ghouls, drowned undead, vampires, wraiths, wyverns, and loads of different demons--the biggest enemy that Geralt faces is always his fellow humans. You're not much of a hero, either. Requests for assistance can be turned down. Money is always a factor, even when you decide to be a good guy and lend a helping hand. And you have no problem taking advantage of just about every woman you encounter, having pre-marital relations with a handful of babes in every act of the game despite apparently being in love with one of your fellow witchers.

It shouldn't be much of a surprise that the line between good and evil here isn't a very thick one. Everything is a murky gray. The first act is simply astonishing in how it plays out. You start off trying to track down the bad guys who raided your witcher fortress and killed one of your pals, but soon get involved in a feud that pits the religious leader and nobles of a hamlet against a witch. However, nobody's hands are clean. One merchant you deal with is in cahoots with the evil cult you're hunting. A guard you help with a ghoul problem turns out to be a rapist. The village priest you're helping cleanse the region of a demonic dog called "the Beast" is actually a misogynistic lunatic. And the witch isn't much better, given that she's sold poison used in a suicide and employed a voodoo doll to make one of the local bigwigs kill his brother. By the end of the act, in a showdown complete with burning torches and pitchforks, you're forced to choose between the woman-hating, rape-loving, cult-affiliated mob and the murdering witch. It makes the most sense to side with the witch because the villagers are an awfully sleazy lot, but doing so forces you to slaughter virtually all of them and leave their town burned to the ground.

devious742

Although there is a fair bit of saving-the-world RPG claptrap involving a powerful evildragon and a murderous group called the Dark Spawn, you deal with a lot of lowlifes. Magic-hating religious fanatics; merchants who deal in abducted Elves; ( unfortunately no slatternly bar wenches who'll bed down with you for a bottle of wine but on the plus side you're not subjected to the horrible dialogue for these kinds of encounters) witches whogive cryptic adviceandare actually demon possessed shapeshifters older than humanly possible; I played a character who was racistand openly hated humans and threaten to killthem. Make no mistake: Although there are a lot of traditional, Gygaxian monsters on the prowl here--Ogres, Dragons, Revenants,Werewolves,Drakes, and loads of different demons--the biggest enemy thatthe characterfaces is always his fellow humans. You're not much of a hero, either. Requests for assistance can be turned down. Money is always a factor, even when you decide to be a good guy and lend a helping hand. And you have no problem taking advantage of just about every woman you encounter, or bisexualmale elf,having pre-marital relations with a handful of babes inyour party.

It shouldn't be much of a surprise that the line between good and evil here isn't a very thick one. Everything is a murky gray. The first act is simply astonishing in how it plays out. You start off trying to track down the bad guys whokilled the kind and plan on ravagint the land, but soon get involved in a feud that pits thiswar time hero against the proper heir to the throne. However, nobody's hands are clean. One merchant you deal with is in cahoots with an elf slaving ring. Ademon in a cat just wants to possess a kid and with give you power if you assist it.If you don't believe in the game's religion there's a group of people that believe a high dragon is the ressurected messiah which is equally as silly as the main religion's beliefs. And the witch isn't much better, given that she'sdemon possessed and has daughters so that she can possess them and live a longer life. By the end of the game, you can justify every act that you commited because just like The Witcher, the ends justify the means.

In the end I liked both games because they both make up for what the other lacks. Overall The Witcher's story is better but the voice acting and dialogue is worse. In Dragon Age their are plently of gray decisions to make but you really never get to see how they pan out, making them feel useless,but at least the characters are interesting

A quest journal and potion making is suddenly part of combat? I agree that the journal was handy, and the alchemy system was pretty great, but they have zilch to do with how bad the combat actually was. Greyfeld

Ofcourse it is, we are talking about RPGs here, and alchemy and journal - though not a direct part of the combat, have a large (mostly indirect) influence on tactics and strategy which are the most important parts of all classic western rpgs (in terms of combat).

The two main problems, as I see it, were the auto-parry and the uselessness of most weapons. The combat was decidedly action-oriented, but they made parrying a dice roll instead of an active part of the combat. Not to mention all these videos where you get to watch Geralt jumping and flourishing and everything, and the only maneuver you have is a ridiculous jump that's so clunky as to be worthless. And I'm not even going to get into the stupidity of having multiple weapon slots, only to realize that the only not-worthless weapons are your steel and silver swords.

Greyfeld

The main idea (imo) of witcher's combat is not hack'n'slashing with different type of weapons (it's not the point) - but connecting your sword skills with a proper knowledge of tactics (knowledge of monsters (for example it is hard in the beginning to kill those plants without a proper sign or torch), alchemy (including oils, bombs and potions), signs/magic and toxicity) to develop proper tactics and strategy in order to win/survive. It's actually a really simple combat system, but it gives a lot of different possibilities.

Of course it is, we are talking about RPGs here, and alchemy and journal - though not a direct part of the combat, have a large (mostly indirect) influence on tactics and strategy which are the most important parts of all classic western rpgs (in terms of combat).herezjarchus

I don't consider Alchemy in The Witcher part of combat any more than I would consider buying Phoenix Downs in any Final Fantasy game part of combat. Sure, it's prep-work, but it's not part of the actual battle experience.

The main idea (imo) of witcher's combat is not hack'n'slashing with different type of weapons (it's not the point) - but connecting your sword skills with a proper knowledge of tactics (knowledge of monsters (for example it is hard in the beginning to kill those plants without a proper sign or torch), alchemy (including oils, bombs and potions), signs/magic and toxicity) to develop proper tactics and strategy in order to win/survive. It's actually a really simple combat system, but it gives a lot of different possibilities.

herezjarchus

I have no problem with gameplay that requires varied tactics, but strategy has no part in real time combat. (Note: Tactics are in-the-moment changes in your approach to battle, while Strategy is a larger picture... sort of the difference between a soldier switching between his gun and his bayonet, and the general mapping battle plans on the sidelines) However, the way they went about it in The Witcher made it obvious that they tried something and failed. Making alternate weapons actually useful doesn't detract from tactical approach, but rather increases it. As does giving flourishing defensive maneuvers directly to the player rather than reducing them to a dice roll.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed The Witcher as a whole. But when the combat comes down to drinking your most powerful potions, slapping on some acid, then making sure you're in the correct stance... it becomes more tedious than it does rewarding. "Oh, there's a big guy, let me pause and change to my strong stance. Small guy, let me change to my quick stance. Click... click... click... and... click."

And the magic system boiled down to a handful of useful abilities. Some of them were outright useless, and the majority of them were situational at best.

I don't understand why these type of threads get over 100+ posts. Its the Witcher :|

I don't understand why these type of threads get over 100+ posts. Its the Witcher :|

SwagSurf

And Dragon Age's gameplay was much more tactical in nature. The Witcher's was just a clickfest with an admittedly complex alchemy system.

[QUOTE="Zero5000X"]The Witcher: *Story *Characters *Combat *Originality Dragon Age: *Voice actingSkyWard20

I don't see how The Witcher has any worse combat than Dragon Age did. Dragon Age basically played like an MMO, click on your opponent, than hotkey it up! The Witcher actually had a timing on the attacks that you had to pay attention to.DragonfireXZ95

I don't consider Alchemy in The Witcher part of combat any more than I would consider buying Phoenix Downs in any Final Fantasy game part of combat. Sure, it's prep-work, but it's not part of the actual battle experience.

Greyfeld

Then you missed something really important because it is part of the combat, I doubt that everyone would carry all the type of potions throughout the whole game but they make them shortly before battle and only the things that they need with connection with toxicity limits.

I have no problem with gameplay that requires varied tactics, but strategy has no part in real time combat. (Note: Tactics are in-the-moment changes in your approach to battle, while Strategy is a larger picture... sort of the difference between a soldier switching between his gun and his bayonet, and the general mapping battle plans on the sidelines)

Greyfeld

You got Strategy wrong... Strategy at its definition is the sum of individual Tactics, and you don't have to got a big army to make strategy (example in economics and management: companies). Strategy is combining different short-term tactics for different situations to achieve some long term goals. For example: killing a bunch of monster in the short term is tactics, while achieving mission quest in the end is strategy.

However, the way they went about it in The Witcher made it obvious that they tried something and failed. Making alternate weapons actually useful doesn't detract from tactical approach, but rather increases it. As does giving flourishing defensive maneuvers directly to the player rather than reducing them to a dice roll.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed The Witcher as a whole. But when the combat comes down to drinking your most powerful potions, slapping on some acid, then making sure you're in the correct stance... it becomes more tedious than it does rewarding. "Oh, there's a big guy, let me pause and change to my strong stance. Small guy, let me change to my quick stance. Click... click... click... and... click."

And the magic system boiled down to a handful of useful abilities. Some of them were outright useless, and the majority of them were situational at best.

Greyfeld

I really don't agree with you but I'm not in mood to argue anymore. I doubt you could any time discover some deeper elements of combat in the game since it looks like the only things in your combat dictionary is weapons, hack'n'slashing + maybe cool magics, which are only the most visible (and not always the most imporant) parts of the combat.

The witcher had a great story. The combat could have been better and the load times were too long.

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"]I don't see how The Witcher has any worse combat than Dragon Age did. Dragon Age basically played like an MMO, click on your opponent, than hotkey it up! The Witcher actually had a timing on the attacks that you had to pay attention to.Vaasman

Dragon Age = pick mage, spam fire or ice spells, rinse and repeat through the whole game.

With the combat rebalance mod in The Witcher you had to properly think of what to do in certain battles or you will literally die in seconds in some battles.

The witcher had a great story. The combat could have been better and the load times were too long.

HaLoMaStErJT

Load times were mainly long because The Witcher used a lot of RAM.

Some of the voice acting was good in The Witcher while others were luke warm.

Nothing was terrible though.

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The game starts to pick up at the start of act II so don't try to judge the game only by act I.

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Dragon Age = pick mage, spam fire or ice spells, rinse and repeat through the whole game.

With the combat rebalance mod in The Witcher you had to properly think of what to do in certain battles or you will literally die in seconds in some battles.

Hakkai007

Play the game only one of the various ways it can be played vs play other game that i like more using mods.

game i like more wins.

[QUOTE="Hakkai007"]

Dragon Age = pick mage, spam fire or ice spells, rinse and repeat through the whole game.

With the combat rebalance mod in The Witcher you had to properly think of what to do in certain battles or you will literally die in seconds in some battles.

smerlus

Play the game only one of the various ways it can be played vs play other game that i like more using mods.

game i like more wins.

It's good even without the combat rebalance mod.

I thought both games had alright combat, I just think it's stupid to claim one is much more superior to the other which is why I made that point.

People were trying to say The Witcher combat is horrible because of the way they played it and I just pointed out I could do the same for Dragon Age.

I didn't play as a mage my first time in Dragon Age mainly because of how easy it was.

Then you missed something really important because it is part of the combat, I doubt that everyone would carry all the type of potions throughout the whole game but they make them shortly before battle and only the things that they need with connection with toxicity limits.herezjarchus

No, it's not part of combat, it's part of prep-work. When I played the game, I made healing draughts and enough of the stronger buff potions to get me through any given combat situation. There were some cool potions to make, and a lot of situational ones, but no matter how good and intriguing the alchemy system was, it still was not part of the "combat system" itself.

You got Strategy wrong... Strategy at its definition is the sum of individual Tactics, and you don't have to got a big army to make strategy (example in economics and management: companies). Strategy is combining different short-term tactics for different situations to achieve some long term goals. For example: killing a bunch of monster in the short term is tactics, while achieving mission quest in the end is strategy.herezjarchus

You completely miss the point. Those were examples to illustrate my point, and you took them literally to mean "these are the only situations in which these words apply." I think you need to slow your roll a little and work on your reading comprehension.

I really don't agree with you but I'm not in mood to argue anymore. I doubt you could any time discover some deeper elements of combat in the game since it looks like the only things in your combat dictionary is weapons, hack'n'slashing + maybe cool magics, which are only the most visible (and not always the most imporant) parts of the combat.

herezjarchus

I played the game through from beginning to end. Just because you have some wonky definition of what constitutes combat doesn't make me wrong. I think you're pretty much the only person in this thread that actually believes that making potions is part of the combat system.

And regardless, that doesn't change the fact that there were no defensive maneuvers available and the wide majority of weapons you find are utterly useless next to your two primary swords. No matter what you believe about the alchemy system, those two parts of combat are undeniable facts, and are what I was initially commenting on before you completely derailed the discussion.

Greyfeld you should of tried the Full Combat Rebalance mod.

There certainly aspects of dodging and maneuvering to survive.

If you let mobs surround you your body will be on the ground in seconds even with your sword stance.

You had to make sure they don't attack from the sides or behind.

Some mobs you had to step back and keep to ranged attacks.

Prepping is of course needed since The Witcher may be stronger than a normal human but he isn't a god.

For example, you will not beat the first boss of first act without coating your blade with the proper material which follows along with the plot.

You may think it is lame but that's what is needed to kill spectral enemies.

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"]I don't see how The Witcher has any worse combat than Dragon Age did. Dragon Age basically played like an MMO, click on your opponent, than hotkey it up! The Witcher actually had a timing on the attacks that you had to pay attention to.Hakkai007

Dragon Age = pick mage, spam fire or ice spells, rinse and repeat through the whole game.

With the combat rebalance mod in The Witcher you had to properly think of what to do in certain battles or you will literally die in seconds in some battles.

Not.

Also, I shouldn't have to mod my game for it to be any fun.

]:roll: Try nothing but spells on a Dragon, ogre, brood mother, lich, etc. That always works.

Not.

Also, I shouldn't have to mod my game for it to be any fun.

Vaasman

I did try that and I won with a mage on the highest difficulty with ease.

You don't have to mod it because your tastes are obviously different.

But that is like me saying "I shouldn't have to patch Dragon Age just to make it playable."

Dragon Age used to have a lot of crashing problems until I patched it.

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

]:roll: Try nothing but spells on a Dragon, ogre, brood mother, lich, etc. That always works.

Not.

Also, I shouldn't have to mod my game for it to be any fun.

Hakkai007

I did try that and I won with a mage on the highest difficulty with ease.

You don't have to mod it because your tastes are obviously different.

But that is like me saying "I shouldn't have to patch Dragon Age just to make it playable."

Dragon Age used to have a lot of crashing problems until I patched it.

Also I wouldn't start talking about Dragon Age's bugs in relation to Witcher, which is infamous for it's bugs, crashes, and terrible optimization.

[QUOTE="Hakkai007"]

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

]:roll: Try nothing but spells on a Dragon, ogre, brood mother, lich, etc. That always works.

Not.

Also, I shouldn't have to mod my game for it to be any fun.

Vaasman

I did try that and I won with a mage on the highest difficulty with ease.

You don't have to mod it because your tastes are obviously different.

But that is like me saying "I shouldn't have to patch Dragon Age just to make it playable."

Dragon Age used to have a lot of crashing problems until I patched it.

Also I wouldn't start talking about Dragon Age's bugs in relation to Witcher, which is infamous for it's bugs, crashes, and terrible optimization.

Both games have bugs.

And I have installed patches before that make a game worse.

Also the mod is in exe that works as an installer. You just click through it like any normal patch.

The mod works fine too.

Why do you think patches are fine and a mod isn't?

If a mod gets a lot of support it can be just as stable.

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

[QUOTE="Hakkai007"]

I did try that and I won with a mage on the highest difficulty with ease.

You don't have to mod it because your tastes are obviously different.

But that is like me saying "I shouldn't have to patch Dragon Age just to make it playable."

Dragon Age used to have a lot of crashing problems until I patched it.

Hakkai007

Also I wouldn't start talking about Dragon Age's bugs in relation to Witcher, which is infamous for it's bugs, crashes, and terrible optimization.

Both games have bugs.

Yea but Witcher's are much more numerous, and it's horrible optimization certainly doesn't help it.

And I have installed patches before that make a game worse.

I'll agree that there are patches that make games worse, but very few patches do and none of the patches for either game made them worse so that doesn't really apply in this case.

Also the mod is in exe for as an installer. You just click through it like any normal patch.

With DD I log in and it auto patches, without me having to look up the right version, on the right website, or having to download and then install the mod. Mod distribution feel dated by comparison.

The mod works fine too.

It can be hit or miss depending on how well developed the mod is. Unlike companies, modders have no incentive to keep up on quality.

Why do you think patches are fine and a mod isn't?

I didn't say mods aren't fine. Mods are fine. However, mods shouldn't have to remake a game. That's what patches are for. Mods should add on extra content to an already great package. Witcher's combat is weak as hell and shouldn't have to be remade by the community just to be passable.

If a mod gets a lot of support it can be just as stable.

That of course is the big if, because like I said before, modders have no monetary incentive.

@Greyfeld

Alchemy -(indirect influence)-> tactics and strategy -(direct infleunce)-> combat.
I can't write it easier.

You completely miss the point. Those were examples to illustrate my point, and you took them literally to mean "these are the only situations in which these words apply." I think you need to slow your roll a little and work on your reading comprehension.Greyfeld

Don't be so proud of yourself, you didn't proved that tactics and strategy aren't important actually or that they don't exist. Reading comprehension? Ofcourse, use ad hominem if you fail to prove your point and don't understand the others point.

I played the game through from beginning to end. Just because you have some wonky definition of what constitutes combat doesn't make me wrong. I think you're pretty much the only person in this thread that actually believes that making potions is part of the combat system.Greyfeld

Wonky definition? No. It simply seems that I've played more rpgs than you, and as far as, let say in a FPS your definition of combat would be true since the combat there is rather mono-dimensional and engage none to medium quantity of tactics and strategy and there is rarely a skill system... while on other hand combat in rpgs is HEAVILY dependant on skills/abilities and the background options (like alchemy) and not only on real-time combat and so we can easily call it multi-dimensional and that's why I say that those things actually matter - and they really matter and it's not only part of prep-work as you try to say since the things you make in that "PREP-WORK" influence your combat in longer or shorter term (depends).

And regardless, that doesn't change the fact that there were no defensive maneuvers available and the wide majority of weapons you find are utterly useless next to your two primary swords. No matter what you believe about the alchemy system, those two parts of combat are undeniable facts, and are what I was initially commenting on before you completely derailed the discussion.

Greyfeld

I don't say that you weren't right about weapons (reading comprehension? huh), I simply try to prove you wrong that they are not always the most important thing and that weapons and magic don't constitute 100% of combat in RPGs (atleast those traditional (more or less pen'n'paper based) and those influenced by them) but the thing you called prep-work and a portion of background options have also large part in it.

[QUOTE="Hakkai007"]

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]That isn't even remotely the same thing. A patch is official, it's quick, easy, and done automatically by DD. A mod is user made and prone to any number of issues associated with unofficially modifying content, and generally requires that you fix the content yourself. Mods should be icing on a cake, they shouldn't have to rework the fundamentals of a game to make it less boring.

Also I wouldn't start talking about Dragon Age's bugs in relation to Witcher, which is infamous for it's bugs, crashes, and terrible optimization.

Vaasman

Both games have bugs.

Yea but Witcher's are much more numerous, and it's horrible optimization certainly doesn't help it.

And I have installed patches before that make a game worse.

I'll agree that there are patches that make games worse, but very few patches do and none of the patches for either game made them worse so that doesn't really apply in this case.

Also the mod is in exe for as an installer. You just click through it like any normal patch.

With DD I log in and it auto patches, without me having to look up the right version, on the right website, or having to download and then install the mod. Mod distribution feel dated by comparison.

The mod works fine too.

It can be hit or miss depending on how well developed the mod is. Unlike companies, modders have no incentive to keep up on quality.

Why do you think patches are fine and a mod isn't?

I didn't say mods aren't fine. Mods are fine. However, mods shouldn't have to remake a game. That's what patches are for. Mods should add on extra content to an already great package. Witcher's combat is weak as hell and shouldn't have to be remade by the community just to be passable.

If a mod gets a lot of support it can be just as stable.

That of course is the big if, because like I said before, modders have no monetary incentive.

I never had performance problems with The Witcher.

I can run it smoothly even with all the texture mods.

And the texture mods look great except for the fire which I don't use.

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Is it me or are Witcher fanboyz the only ones putting up posts like this? I guess thats how insecure gamers roll making sure that we all know how special their precious little rpg is.

Is it me or are Witcher fanboyz the only ones putting up posts like this? I guess thats how insecure gamers roll making sure that we all know how special their precious little rpg is.

FastEddie2121

Putting up posts like what and whats there to be insecure about?

Is it me or are Witcher fanboyz the only ones putting up posts like this? I guess thats how insecure gamers roll making sure that we all know how special their precious little rpg is.

FastEddie2121

[QUOTE="FastEddie2121"]

Is it me or are Witcher fanboyz the only ones putting up posts like this? I guess thats how insecure gamers roll making sure that we all know how special their precious little rpg is.

devious742

How observant! You got me there bro. I was hoping it wouldn't be noticed.

Another thing I liked about The Witcher was the fantastic music used in the game.