the Xbox 360 has stopped evolution of games from a 3rd party stand point.

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"] [QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="boba707"]crysis is a pc game, im talking consolesjalexbrown

No. Also most PS3 exclusives could fit in one DVD im sure

at least he knows what he's talking aboutdelta3074

[QUOTE="delta3074"]at least he knows what he's talking aboutjalexbrown

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"][QUOTE="delta3074"]at least he knows what he's talking aboutdelta3074

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"][QUOTE="delta3074"]at least he knows what he's talking aboutdelta3074

INFACT if any thing microsoft has fostered 3rd party and game development with their work in making development easier and more open for developers, from their sharing of information, their dev kits being some of the most smart with a chunk of ram set asside specifically for the tools and other programs developers use so they can load games and game assets into the full amount of ram the end system will use, to making their system follow industry standards and follow past trends of programming....compared to Sony who ever itteration the playstation have created a system completely different in cpu and gpu from past systems forcing developers to relearn every thing they did in the past generation.

INFACT if any thing microsoft has fostered 3rd party and game development with their work in making development easier and more open for developers, from their sharing of information, their dev kits being some of the most smart with a chunk of ram set asside specifically for the tools and other programs developers use so they can load games and game assets into the full amount of ram the end system will use, to making their system follow industry standards and follow past trends of programming....compared to Sony who ever itteration the playstation have created a system completely different in cpu and gpu from past systems forcing developers to relearn every thing they did in the past generation.

WilliamRLBaker

Well why don't you just fly to Redmond, Washington and give Steve Ballmer a cookie for his company's fantastic contributions to the world of gaming? Great development kits, standards in programming, and a system that will fail at least 30% of the time (and from the numbers I've seen floating around, that's being generous).

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

INFACT if any thing microsoft has fostered 3rd party and game development with their work in making development easier and more open for developers, from their sharing of information, their dev kits being some of the most smart with a chunk of ram set asside specifically for the tools and other programs developers use so they can load games and game assets into the full amount of ram the end system will use, to making their system follow industry standards and follow past trends of programming....compared to Sony who ever itteration the playstation have created a system completely different in cpu and gpu from past systems forcing developers to relearn every thing they did in the past generation.

jalexbrown

Well why don't you just fly to Redmond, Washington and give Steve Ballmer a cookie for his company's fantastic contributions to the world of gaming? Great development kits, standards in programming, and a system that will fail at least 30% of the time (and from the numbers I've seen floating around, that's being generous).

One would argue that PS3 and 360 are holding back PC gaming.

It's funny how PS3/360 gamers complain about the Wii being too casual and PC Gamers complain about the PS3/360 being too casual. :P

Of course then ill go to japan and give Krazy Ken and Kaz a cookie for creating a system that is hard to develop for, more expensive to develop for then the 360, and has an 11% failure rate.

WilliamRLBaker

Hard to develop for? It seems that the difference between third-party titles on the PS3 and 360 is marginal these days, so apparently they have figured out how to do at least as much with the PS3 as the 360 (and in a few cases, such as Darksiders, make it better on the PS3). Expensive to develop for? Okay, so it takes more money to make a game for the PS3, but a game that sells a million units still turns a profit, so big deal. And an 11% failure rate is about a third of the most generous 360 failure rates, so yeah...

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]Of course then ill go to japan and give Krazy Ken and Kaz a cookie for creating a system that is hard to develop for, more expensive to develop for then the 360, and has an 11% failure rate.

jalexbrown

Hard to develop for? It seems that the difference between third-party titles on the PS3 and 360 is marginal these days, so apparently they have figured out how to do at least as much with the PS3 as the 360 (and in a few cases, such as Darksiders, make it better on the PS3). Expensive to develop for? Okay, so it takes more money to make a game for the PS3, but a game that sells a million units still turns a profit, so big deal. And an 11% failure rate is about a third of the most generous 360 failure rates, so yeah...

As much as I can appreciate having Blu-Ray in the PS3, TC is still totally wrong about this. He's either a fanboy or just ignorant, either one, take your pick, the end result will still be the same: there will be no reasoning with him. That said, to everyone citing Crysis: because PC games get installed, the data can be more compressed on the disc, allowing more data; if Crysis had to stream off the disc, it probably wouldn't fit on one DVD.jalexbrown

Loaded onto my hard drive Crysis is just over 6 gb uncompressed. It could stream off a disk quite easily if the consoles had the hardware to actually run the game. It's amazing how little space a game takes up when you don't waste space on CGI cutscenes and the like.

Not to call anybody out directly, but usually it's a bad idea to rip on the people making the legit points.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

INFACT if any thing microsoft has fostered 3rd party and game development with their work in making development easier and more open for developers, from their sharing of information, their dev kits being some of the most smart with a chunk of ram set asside specifically for the tools and other programs developers use so they can load games and game assets into the full amount of ram the end system will use, to making their system follow industry standards and follow past trends of programming....compared to Sony who ever itteration the playstation have created a system completely different in cpu and gpu from past systems forcing developers to relearn every thing they did in the past generation.

jalexbrown

Well why don't you just fly to Redmond, Washington and give Steve Ballmer a cookie for his company's fantastic contributions to the world of gaming? Great development kits, standards in programming, and a system that will fail at least 30% of the time (and from the numbers I've seen floating around, that's being generous).

you want science? MS found that the substrate layer between the GPU and the motherboard was not rated to a high enough temperature so over time cyclic heat damage would cause it to crack and cause RROD, they could not fix this problem with the falcon as they needed time to test a new substrate material and to redesign the motherboard, the jasper unit has a redesigned motherboard with a new substrate material that is rated way higher than the temperatures seen inside the 360, i don't need to trust the statistics, anybody with any knowledge on the subject would realise that this WILL solve the problemdelta3074

How is five hundred units not considered a large enough sample for scientific purposes, especially in a situation like this? How much deviation from the results do you actually expect between a sample size of 500 and 30 million, and more importantly, would it raise it by a considerable enough amount to say that the opposite result is true?alittletoohappy

[QUOTE="delta3074"]you want science? MS found that the substrate layer between the GPU and the motherboard was not rated to a high enough temperature so over time cyclic heat damage would cause it to crack and cause RROD, they could not fix this problem with the falcon as they needed time to test a new substrate material and to redesign the motherboard, the jasper unit has a redesigned motherboard with a new substrate material that is rated way higher than the temperatures seen inside the 360, i don't need to trust the statistics, anybody with any knowledge on the subject would realise that this WILL solve the problemjalexbrown

at least they held there hands up to it and ensured none of there customers where out of pocket over it, unlike SONY, who blatantly denied liability over DRE in the PS2, even after they where found liable in courtdelta3074

[QUOTE="delta3074"]at least they held there hands up to it and ensured none of there customers where out of pocket over it, unlike SONY, who blatantly denied liability over DRE in the PS2, even after they where found liable in courtjalexbrown

You fail statistics forever. I think the actual demographic is what, 10% of the nation is black? Even assuming that the other 90% was white, the odds of that happening are phenomenally slim. Approaching 1/10^500 against(I don't want to do the actual math at three in the morning) Sure, if you had a sample size of five and it was one black man and four white, that would be a sample size problem. And honestly, I'd probably prefer a sample size of more than 500 if I was actually doing population demographics, but certainly not for testing RROD.alittletoohappy

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"][QUOTE="delta3074"]at least they held there hands up to it and ensured none of there customers where out of pocket over it, unlike SONY, who blatantly denied liability over DRE in the PS2, even after they where found liable in courtdelta3074

I suppose PS3 is stopping the evolution of games because of its slow disk read speed?

True, the smaller the number, the greater the chance for an anomaly, but 500 is sound enough, at least for RROD testing. The fact that it is an expectable outcome given that they fixed the engineering problem should only stand as further evidence that it is fixed. Even if it is "anomalous," the actual percentage probably only deviates by a few percentage points, certainly not enough to take it up to 11 so to speak.alittletoohappy

If by that, you mean models prior to the fix can't be helped, that's true, but that isn't a problem that Microsoft can fix without outright replacing the units, and more importantly, doesn't reflect the quality of the 360 as it is.alittletoohappy

Agreeably, Microsoft deserved to and was damaged by their design mistake, but I'm not sure where exactly you're getting the "fact" that people are buying new 360s and they're RRODing either right away or some time down the road before proper aging has kicked in.alittletoohappy

PS3 was the big pusher behind Blu-ray; and yet all they could get hold of was that slower than DVD 2x speed one.

360 launched a year earlier, how exactly was they supposed to get a Blu-ray player?

[QUOTE="Duxsox56"]

And @ TC, I highly doubt that developers downgrade the quality of a game just so it will fit on one disk. 3rd party developers just aren't interested in making massive games like exclusives because exclusives need to sell systems, therefore they need to be amazing. 3rd party games just need to sell lots of copies, so it is acceptable for them to be short and sweet.

jalexbrown

Yeah, for the most part. Multiplat developers just need to make games that are fun to play. Exclusive games developers need to put something into the game that makes it extroardinary like great graphics or new gameplay mechanics so that people feel the need to buy a new system just for that game.

That's not saying that all exclusives are better than all multiplats by any means.

[QUOTE="delta3074"] So what? You're praising them for fixing it now because they shipped the system with the "we'll deal with it later" mentality?jalexbrown

[QUOTE="delta3074"]at least they held there hands up to it and ensured none of there customers where out of pocket over it, unlike SONY, who blatantly denied liability over DRE in the PS2, even after they where found liable in courtjalexbrown

Resident Evil 5 is a great game. ONE DISK. Crysis. ONE DISK. Most games fit on one disk. And what do most games have in common? Better than Uncharted 2 and most ps3 exclusives.

Hathesulacon

[QUOTE="boba707"]

imagine if the 360 had more disc space, things could have evolved so much more

Funconsole

Now that's real damage control right there!:lol:

Also, does the TC think that PC's should also use Blu-Ray discs for the games as well?:roll:

As much as I can appreciate having Blu-Ray in the PS3, TC is still totally wrong about this. He's either a fanboy or just ignorant, either one, take your pick, the end result will still be the same: there will be no reasoning with him. That said, to everyone citing Crysis: because PC games get installed, the data can be more compressed on the disc, allowing more data; if Crysis had to stream off the disc, it probably wouldn't fit on one DVD.jalexbrown

Genius..Pure Genius

[QUOTE="Hathesulacon"]

Resident Evil 5 is a great game. ONE DISK. Crysis. ONE DISK. Most games fit on one disk. And what do most games have in common? Better than Uncharted 2 and most ps3 exclusives.

Diviniuz

3rd party companies who make multiplat games have to keep with-in the limits of the xbox 360 disc because they dont want to have multiple discs. because the xbox doesnt use bluray discs , 3rd party companies cant make bigger better games because they are so limited. multiplat games will never evolve until the xbox gets more disc space. as of now, the evolution has stopped.

boba707

[QUOTE="Diviniuz"][QUOTE="Hathesulacon"]

Resident Evil 5 is a great game. ONE DISK. Crysis. ONE DISK. Most games fit on one disk. And what do most games have in common? Better than Uncharted 2 and most ps3 exclusives.

delta3074

Not even first part Sony studios and third-party exclusives take full control of Blu-Ray's capacity when all they're fascinated with is uncompressed audio and video. Think of the epic RPGs and other genres that could be expansive. But no, uncompressed audio and video. Meh.

Cerberus_Legion

You can find games with more content than popular console RPGs with only 10k-100MB of space used.. The majority of memory spent is towards graphics.