Theory on LIVE charges and free PSN

This is just a theory.

Maybe MS charges foir LIVE because the 360 is the only console they got and they need as much revenue as possible to stay in the black.

PSN costs money but UNLIKE MS, Sony uses revenue from PSP and PS2 to offset the costs.

MS only has 1 console to make profit, Sony has 3.

This is just a theory.

Maybe MS charges foir LIVE because the 360 is the only console they got and they need as much revenue as possible to stay in the black.

PSN costs money but UNLIKE MS, Sony uses revenue from PSP and PS2 to offset the costs.

MS only has 1 console to make profit, Sony has 3.

-GhostMLD-

its a possiblity, microsofts shareholders are not too fond of the xbox, this way they could try to minimize the costs

Nope MS charges for live because they can. Maybe PSN wont stay free foreve as well.

Sort of got where you were coming from though.

MS has a 30% net income from its revenues..

Sony has maybe some 1%?

I dont think your theory holds..

No. MS charges for live because we're willing to pay for it. Sony doesn't because they rather tack that money into the cost of other PSN purchases in order to provide an advantage for their console in the customer's eyes.

That's basically it.

Maybe that helps explain the overpriced hardrives and wifi adapters too.

MS has a 30% net income from its revenues..

Sony has maybe some 1%?

I dont think your theory holds..

omgimba

not MS as a whole, their Entertainment and devices divison only.

[QUOTE="omgimba"]

MS has a 30% net income from its revenues..

Sony has maybe some 1%?

I dont think your theory holds..

-GhostMLD-

not MS as a whole, their Entertainment and devices divison only.

that reminds me, as microsoft said anything about Q1 of 2008? did their Entertainment and devices divison turn a profit for the third time in a row?

[QUOTE="-GhostMLD-"][QUOTE="omgimba"]

MS has a 30% net income from its revenues..

Sony has maybe some 1%?

I dont think your theory holds..

st1ka

not MS as a whole, their Entertainment and devices divison only.

that reminds me, as microsoft said anything about Q1 of 2008? did their Entertainment and devices divison turn a profit for the third time in a row?

yes they did. 89 million profit for the 3rd quarter without halo.

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="-GhostMLD-"][QUOTE="omgimba"]

MS has a 30% net income from its revenues..

Sony has maybe some 1%?

I dont think your theory holds..

-GhostMLD-

not MS as a whole, their Entertainment and devices divison only.

that reminds me, as microsoft said anything about Q1 of 2008? did their Entertainment and devices divison turn a profit for the third time in a row?

yes they did. 89 million profit for the 3rd quarter without halo.

i dont suppose you could provide me with a link?

[QUOTE="omgimba"]

MS has a 30% net income from its revenues..

Sony has maybe some 1%?

I dont think your theory holds..

-GhostMLD-

not MS as a whole, their Entertainment and devices divison only.

[QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="-GhostMLD-"][QUOTE="omgimba"]

MS has a 30% net income from its revenues..

Sony has maybe some 1%?

I dont think your theory holds..

-GhostMLD-

not MS as a whole, their Entertainment and devices divison only.

that reminds me, as microsoft said anything about Q1 of 2008? did their Entertainment and devices divison turn a profit for the third time in a row?

yes they did. 89 million profit for the 3rd quarter without halo.

That division is fueled by MS as a whole. Thus far MS has lost 4 billion $ on the xbox and probably lost a little on Xbox360 aswell. They are going for the market share right now, profits comes second.

That division is fueled by MS as a whole. Thus far MS has lost 4 billion $ on the xbox and probably lost a little on Xbox360 aswell. They are going for the market share right now, profits comes second.

omgimba

[QUOTE="-GhostMLD-"][QUOTE="st1ka"][QUOTE="-GhostMLD-"][QUOTE="omgimba"]

MS has a 30% net income from its revenues..

Sony has maybe some 1%?

I dont think your theory holds..

omgimba

not MS as a whole, their Entertainment and devices divison only.

that reminds me, as microsoft said anything about Q1 of 2008? did their Entertainment and devices divison turn a profit for the third time in a row?

yes they did. 89 million profit for the 3rd quarter without halo.

That division is fueled by MS as a whole. Thus far MS has lost 4 billion $ on the xbox and probably lost a little on Xbox360 aswell. They are going for the market share right now, profits comes second.

its normal for companys to loose a lot of money so they can penetrate a market, however thats 3 times in a row the entertainment division has turned a profit, in the last two quarters they ranked in about 700 million dollars thanks to halo, no too long before the RROD provision is paid for

[QUOTE="omgimba"]

That division is fueled by MS as a whole. Thus far MS has lost 4 billion $ on the xbox and probably lost a little on Xbox360 aswell. They are going for the market share right now, profits comes second.

PBSnipes

so true.

it kills me to see the 360 being outsold by the PS3 worldwide when all MS has to do is drop the US price.....but its not coming for some reason.......

that reason is profit, but still SM is missing out and fast.

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"][QUOTE="omgimba"]

That division is fueled by MS as a whole. Thus far MS has lost 4 billion $ on the xbox and probably lost a little on Xbox360 aswell. They are going for the market share right now, profits comes second.

-GhostMLD-

so true.

it kills me to see the 360 being outsold by the PS3 worldwide when all MS has to do is drop the US price.....but its not coming for some reason.......

that reason is profit, but still SM is missing out and fast.

Why its an inanimate lump of plastic?

so true.

it kills me to see the 360 being outsold by the PS3 worldwide when all MS has to do is drop the US price.....but its not coming for some reason.......

that reason is profit, but still SM is missing out and fast.

-GhostMLD-

That division is fueled by MS as a whole. Thus far MS has lost 4 billion $ on the xbox and probably lost a little on Xbox360 aswell. They are going for the market share right now, profits comes second.

omgimba

"for the third quarter". He means that the division is now starting to get a quarterly profit - even if they're still in the red when you take to account the whole history of the division.

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"][QUOTE="omgimba"]

That division is fueled by MS as a whole. Thus far MS has lost 4 billion $ on the xbox and probably lost a little on Xbox360 aswell. They are going for the market share right now, profits comes second.

-GhostMLD-

so true.

it kills me to see the 360 being outsold by the PS3 worldwide when all MS has to do is drop the US price.....but its not coming for some reason.......

that reason is profit, but still SM is missing out and fast.

:lol: Kid, you are taking this way too seriously.

But then you could say that MS could do the same thing with other MS divisions. More of a stretch, I know, due to the going out of the division part but possible.

They also have done less and are taking longer (Sony). So, maybe that's why MS charges. To stay ahead.

Actually, I'd say Microsoft charge for Live because they're money-hungry pigs, but I see your point.Floppy_Jim

if you all ownd your own company I bet youd do anything to turn a buck. what you all think your not greedy to pleas... you would bulid in china and charge money for every littel thing just to make a $100mill more a year on top of the billon you already have. sony will charge for there online sevice some day they can't ignore the mass amont of money Xbox live is bringin in.

Actually, I'd say Microsoft charge for Live because they're money-hungry pigs, but I see your point.Floppy_Jim

Well, heck, that sums it up for M$, Sony, AND Nintendo. Its all about the benjamins, no matter how you look at it. :(

[QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]Actually, I'd say Microsoft charge for Live because they're money-hungry pigs, but I see your point.RippedFubar

if you all ownd your own company I bet youd do anything to turn a buck. what you all think your not greedy to pleas... you would bulid in china and charge money for every littel thing just to make a $100mill more a year on top of the billon you already have. sony will charge for there online sevice some day they can't ignore the mass amont of money Xbox live is bringin in.

Hey, I never said I wasn't a money-hungry pig :lol:

XBL fees provide an open source for the developers. Plain and simple.

Sure, it gives them a buck...but there is much more behind it than what people want to think.

Microsoft charges for Live, not because they need it, but because they can. Microsoft is made of money, and they didnt get that way for nothing. $50 fee for Live is no exception.

[QUOTE="-GhostMLD-"]

This is just a theory.

Maybe MS charges foir LIVE because the 360 is the only console they got and they need as much revenue as possible to stay in the black.

PSN costs money but UNLIKE MS, Sony uses revenue from PSP and PS2 to offset the costs.

MS only has 1 console to make profit, Sony has 3.

st1ka

its a possiblity, microsofts shareholders are not too fond of the xbox, this way they could try to minimize the costs

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"][QUOTE="omgimba"]

That division is fueled by MS as a whole. Thus far MS has lost 4 billion $ on the xbox and probably lost a little on Xbox360 aswell. They are going for the market share right now, profits comes second.

-GhostMLD-

so true.

it kills me to see the 360 being outsold by the PS3 worldwide when all MS has to do is drop the US price.....but its not coming for some reason.......

that reason is profit, but still SM is missing out and fast.

LOL :lol: what the hell?!

MS charges for XBL becuase they know that people will pay for it. they know that most of the people who buy a console this gen want to go online. Its basicly milking the consumer.

Sony will start making its money on Home by having advertisements. It wont make as much money, but at least they are not milking us.

When you buy an avatar, u give $$$ to microsoft

When you purchase warhawk or GT5p or Siren (come June) on PSN, some % of it goes to Sony.

You see the difference?

People on XBL pay a few bucks for some arcade games and avatars

People on PSN pay $39 to purchase full games

Who'll have more online revenue?

Who'll need to charge $50 a month?

And thats just because 360 doesn't have a standard HDD.

This is just a theory.

Maybe MS charges foir LIVE because the 360 is the only console they got and they need as much revenue as possible to stay in the black.

PSN costs money but UNLIKE MS, Sony uses revenue from PSP and PS2 to offset the costs.

MS only has 1 console to make profit, Sony has 3.

-GhostMLD-

Or maybe its because the PSN is a website and you dont need a PS3 to get to it.

http://www.us.playstation.com/PS3/Store

So why should they charge for a website. Sony already said that Home will be free, paid for by advertisements that will run on Home.

It's simple business 101: Microsoft charges for Xbox Live because it's a large operation involving hundreds of developers, operations and support staff, and IT resources (datacenters and bandwidth.) and such an operation cannot exist without a clear, defined revenue stream to support it.

With XBL, the revenue streams are advertising, Marketplace royalties and subscriptions. Of those, subscriptions are the most valuable because they are predictable, recurring revenues against which major new projects can be budgeted with decent accuracy. Without the subscription revenue, they'd have to depend on Marketplace royalties and Advertising, which are relatively unpredictable and require large additional marketing dollars to generate, so they'd be less likely to budget large, long-term service improvement projects against them.

In other words, if XBL were free and ad-supported, we wouldn't have things like Inside Xbox, or community events, or things like unified leaderboards or TrueSkill, because those things would be too costly to justify under an unpredictable, ad-supported revenue model. And that is also why PSN doesn't have things like that, and why Home will be a failure.

It's simple business 101: Microsoft charges for Xbox Live because it's a large operation involving hundreds of developers, operations and support staff, and IT resources (datacenters and bandwidth.) and such an operation cannot exist without a clear, defined revenue stream to support it.

With XBL, the revenue streams are advertising, Marketplace royalties and subscriptions. Of those, subscriptions are the most valuable because they are predictable, recurring revenues against which major new projects can be budgeted with decent accuracy. Without the subscription revenue, they'd have to depend on Marketplace royalties and Advertising, which are relatively unpredictable and require large additional marketing dollars to generate, so they'd be less likely to budget large, long-term service improvement projects against them.

In other words, if XBL were free and ad-supported, we wouldn't have things like Inside Xbox, or community events, or things like unified leaderboards or TrueSkill, because those things would be too costly to justify under an unpredictable, ad-supported revenue model. And that is also why PSN doesn't have things like that, and why Home will be a failure.

UnnDunn

leaderboards and trueskills? My COD4 on PSN has it too.

I play online for free

I have an avatar free

I have an onlineID free

I play demo frees

I watch movie trailers free

I download themes free

I download wallpapers free

I download some songs for GH3 w/o having to pay for PSN in the first place

I can have voice chat free

I can send messages for free

Heck, I'm even having HOME for free.

And from what Live have. If it is really a "it's a large operation involving hundreds of developers, operations and support staff, and IT resources (datacenters and bandwidth.)"...

Then its really pathatic. Its down during holiday seasons, people lag, there're no way to stop kids from yelling in mics, there's not really much support (is there any in the first place?) ... and it takes HUNDREDS of people to maintain it !?

Holy CRAP!

It's simple business 101: Microsoft charges for Xbox Live because it's a large operation involving hundreds of developers, operations and support staff, and IT resources (datacenters and bandwidth.) and such an operation cannot exist without a clear, defined revenue stream to support it.

With XBL, the revenue streams are advertising, Marketplace royalties and subscriptions. Of those, subscriptions are the most valuable because they are predictable, recurring revenues against which major new projects can be budgeted with decent accuracy. Without the subscription revenue, they'd have to depend on Marketplace royalties and Advertising, which are relatively unpredictable and require large additional marketing dollars to generate, so they'd be less likely to budget large, long-term service improvement projects against them.

In other words, if XBL were free and ad-supported, we wouldn't have things like Inside Xbox, or community events, or things like unified leaderboards or TrueSkill, because those things would be too costly to justify under an unpredictable, ad-supported revenue model. And that is also why PSN doesn't have things like that, and why Home will be a failure.

UnnDunn

[QUOTE="UnnDunn"]

leaderboards and trueskills? My COD4 on PSN has it too.sdu_1111

I have an avatar free

I have an onlineID free

I play demo frees

I watch movie trailers free

I download themes free

I download wallpapers free

I download some songs for GH3 w/o having to pay for PSN in the first place

I can have voice chat free

I can send messages for freesdu_1111

Then its really pathatic. Its down during holiday seasons, people lag, there're no way to stop kids from yelling in mics, there's not really much support (is there any in the first place?) ... and it takes HUNDREDS of people to maintain it !?

sdu_1111

And stopping kids from yelling in mics? Try the Mute feature. As for support, it's there--you need to use it.

[QUOTE="UnnDunn"]

It's simple business 101: Microsoft charges for Xbox Live because it's a large operation involving hundreds of developers, operations and support staff, and IT resources (datacenters and bandwidth.) and such an operation cannot exist without a clear, defined revenue stream to support it.

With XBL, the revenue streams are advertising, Marketplace royalties and subscriptions. Of those, subscriptions are the most valuable because they are predictable, recurring revenues against which major new projects can be budgeted with decent accuracy. Without the subscription revenue, they'd have to depend on Marketplace royalties and Advertising, which are relatively unpredictable and require large additional marketing dollars to generate, so they'd be less likely to budget large, long-term service improvement projects against them.

In other words, if XBL were free and ad-supported, we wouldn't have things like Inside Xbox, or community events, or things like unified leaderboards or TrueSkill, because those things would be too costly to justify under an unpredictable, ad-supported revenue model. And that is also why PSN doesn't have things like that, and why Home will be a failure.

sdu_1111

leaderboards and trueskills? My COD4 on PSN has it too.

I play online for free

I have an avatar free

I have an onlineID free

I play demo frees

I watch movie trailers free

I download themes free

I download wallpapers free

I download some songs for GH3 w/o having to pay for PSN in the first place

I can have voice chat free

I can send messages for free

Heck, I'm even having HOME for free.

And from what Live have. If it is really a "it's a large operation involving hundreds of developers, operations and support staff, and IT resources (datacenters and bandwidth.)"...

Then its really pathatic. Its down during holiday seasons, people lag, there're no way to stop kids from yelling in mics, there's not really much support (is there any in the first place?) ... and it takes HUNDREDS of people to maintain it !?

Holy CRAP!

That may be but I pay to play on a more consistent service

I imagine that if MS were creating Home it wouldn't be delayed for what the 6 month in a tow

[QUOTE="sdu_1111"][QUOTE="UnnDunn"]

leaderboards and trueskills? My COD4 on PSN has it too.HuusAsking

I have an avatar free

I have an onlineID free

I play demo frees

I watch movie trailers free

I download themes free

I download wallpapers free

I download some songs for GH3 w/o having to pay for PSN in the first place

I can have voice chat free

I can send messages for freesdu_1111

Then its really pathatic. Its down during holiday seasons, people lag, there're no way to stop kids from yelling in mics, there's not really much support (is there any in the first place?) ... and it takes HUNDREDS of people to maintain it !?

sdu_1111

And stopping kids from yelling in mics? Try the Mute feature. As for support, it's there--you need to use it.

what kinda support is there with a update every half year?

PSN receives updates every week. That is what support is all about.

DMC4 vs GTA4? So someone who completes DMC4 becomes some god in GTA4 multiplayer? No?

Silver features !!!??? YOu have to PAY FOR A FREAKING AVATAR.

what kinda support is there with a update every half year?

PSN receives updates every week. That is what support is all about.

sdu_1111

what kinda support is there with a update every half year?

PSN receives updates every week. That is what support is all about.

DMC4 vs GTA4? So someone who completes DMC4 becomes some god in GTA4 multiplayer? No?

Silver features !!!??? YOu have to PAY FOR A FREAKING AVATAR.

sdu_1111

PSN does not receive updates every week. Plus most of the PSN updates are actually fixes for things already there. In M$'s case, alot are actually adding new features.

And there are probably around the same amount of free gamerpics on XBL as there are avatars on PSN. All the extra ones you have to pay for on XBL are a bonus, no one is forced to purchase them. Plus, if you have the XBL vision camera, you can take a picture and have whatever avatar you want.

what kinda support is there with a update every half year?

PSN receives updates every week. That is what support is all about.

DMC4 vs GTA4? So someone who completes DMC4 becomes some god in GTA4 multiplayer? No?

Silver features !!!??? YOu have to PAY FOR A FREAKING AVATAR.

sdu_1111

Updates every week? Maybe you can sell that to a non-PS3 owner who doesn't know better, that is a load.

And even when I was getting frequent updates for PSN early on they didn't do a heck of a lot. Interface stayed the same, connection and matchmaking was generally unchanged. When Live does an update I notice, aside from the PSN store update I rarely do.

As for support, game support is what matters and both PSN and XBL give me game updates when I drop the disc in.

If PSN gets cross game voice chat and an intigrated friendslist w/ cross game chats then I will be ALL aboard the PSN rocks train, but till then PSN is not equal to Live,

That would make sense, except for the part where MS turned something like a $14 billion profit last year.PBSnipes

And how much of that was from the Xbox division? None.

I don't care what figures you have, the Xbox losses money. Extended warranty, small user base. Do the math, Xbox is excess baggage to Microsoft and has never turned a profit.

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"]That would make sense, except for the part where MS turned something like a $14 billion profit last year.Subcritical

And how much of that was from the Xbox division? None.

actually they had a 700 million profit in Q3 and Q4 2007