This is the REAL reason why the PS3 has mandatory installs on alot of games

Ok, all I want is a link that Sony does not allow their developers to compress their files. Installs or no installs I don't care. Give me a link.

I take it the PS3 Slim also uses the same 2x blu ray drive as the original PS3?

jun_aka_pekto

[QUOTE="jun_aka_pekto"]

I take it the PS3 Slim also uses the same 2x blu ray drive as the original PS3?

04dcarraher

You are wrong,

According to the Blu-ray Disc specification, 1x speed is defined as 36Mbps. However, as BD-ROM movies will require a 54Mbps data transfer rate the minimum speed we're expecting to see is 2x (72Mbps). Blu-ray also has the potential for much higher speeds, as a result of the larger numerical aperture (NA) adopted by Blu-ray Disc. The large NA value effectively means that Blu-ray will require less recording power and lower disc rotation speed than DVD and HD-DVD to achieve the same data transfer rate. While the media itself limited the recording speed in the past, the only limiting factor for Blu-ray is the capacity of the hardware. If we assume a maximum disc rotation speed of 10,000 RPM, then 12x at the outer diameter should be possible (about 400Mbps). This is why the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) already has plans to raise the speed to 8x (288Mbps) or more in the future.

The data that can be read on a blu ray its massive.

http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/

Proof?

Bluray 2x speed = 9mb/s , while DVD 20x = 27mb/s but 360 slim uses a 16x =22mb/s Bluray at 6x speed = 27mb/s and 12x is 54mb/s They have to install large texture files onto the hdd because bluray drive to too slow, a hdd can outclass any optical drive.04dcarraher

You think that the laser of the DVD and blu ray are the same? And the only difference between the two its only the storage capacity?

Any link to where the 360 S uses a 16x drive

Any link to where the 360 S uses a 16x drive

GTSaiyanjin2

I guess no, and he just invented the speed read of the blu ray

[QUOTE="GTSaiyanjin2"]

Any link to where the 360 S uses a 16x drive

Pelon208

I guess no, and he just invented the speed read of the blu ray

Here's info I found via Wikipedia:

PS3 BD-ROM drive max speed:
2x @ 72Mbps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_hardware

XBox 360 DVD-ROM drive max speed:
12x @ 15.85Mbps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_hardware

Hmm...

[QUOTE="Pelon208"]

[QUOTE="GTSaiyanjin2"]

Any link to where the 360 S uses a 16x drive

delta3074

I guess no, and he just invented the speed read of the blu ray

I think my source its has more credibility than yours

According to the Blu-ray Disc specification, 1x speed is defined as 36Mbps. However, as BD-ROM movies will require a 54Mbps data transfer rate the minimum speed we're expecting to see is 2x (72Mbps). Blu-ray also has the potential for much higher speeds, as a result of the larger numerical aperture (NA) adopted by Blu-ray Disc. The large NA value effectively means that Blu-ray will require less recording power and lower disc rotation speed than DVD and HD-DVD to achieve the same data transfer rate. While the media itself limited the recording speed in the past, the only limiting factor for Blu-ray is the capacity of the hardware. If we assume a maximum disc rotation speed of 10,000 RPM, then 12x at the outer diameter should be possible (about 400Mbps). This is why the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) already has plans to raise the speed to 8x (288Mbps) or more in the future.

http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="Pelon208"]

I guess no, and he just invented the speed read of the blu ray

Pelon208

I think my source its has more credibility than yours

According to the Blu-ray Disc specification, 1x speed is defined as 36Mbps. However, as BD-ROM movies will require a 54Mbps data transfer rate the minimum speed we're expecting to see is 2x (72Mbps). Blu-ray also has the potential for much higher speeds, as a result of the larger numerical aperture (NA) adopted by Blu-ray Disc. The large NA value effectively means that Blu-ray will require less recording power and lower disc rotation speed than DVD and HD-DVD to achieve the same data transfer rate. While the media itself limited the recording speed in the past, the only limiting factor for Blu-ray is the capacity of the hardware. If we assume a maximum disc rotation speed of 10,000 RPM, then 12x at the outer diameter should be possible (about 400Mbps). This is why the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) already has plans to raise the speed to 8x (288Mbps) or more in the future.

http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/

[QUOTE="Pelon208"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]its actually only a 12 times drive but you should read this article, at 2x a bluray drives tranfer rate is equal to a 12x drive minimum transfer rate, lower than a 12x drive maximum transfer rate meaning that depending on which wether the 360 is reading the inner part of the disc or the outer part of the disc rate for the 2x blu-ray drive in the ps3 will be equal or lower. http://uk.gamespot.com/pages/profile/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=23916169&user=skektekdelta3074

I think my source its has more credibility than yours

According to the Blu-ray Disc specification, 1x speed is defined as 36Mbps. However, as BD-ROM movies will require a 54Mbps data transfer rate the minimum speed we're expecting to see is 2x (72Mbps). Blu-ray also has the potential for much higher speeds, as a result of the larger numerical aperture (NA) adopted by Blu-ray Disc. The large NA value effectively means that Blu-ray will require less recording power and lower disc rotation speed than DVD and HD-DVD to achieve the same data transfer rate. While the media itself limited the recording speed in the past, the only limiting factor for Blu-ray is the capacity of the hardware. If we assume a maximum disc rotation speed of 10,000 RPM, then 12x at the outer diameter should be possible (about 400Mbps). This is why the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) already has plans to raise the speed to 8x (288Mbps) or more in the future.

http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/

what happen if the old versions has 12x DVD's and the new versions are 16x? That only means better performance on the newer models?

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="Pelon208"]

I think my source its has more credibility than yours

According to the Blu-ray Disc specification, 1x speed is defined as 36Mbps. However, as BD-ROM movies will require a 54Mbps data transfer rate the minimum speed we're expecting to see is 2x (72Mbps). Blu-ray also has the potential for much higher speeds, as a result of the larger numerical aperture (NA) adopted by Blu-ray Disc. The large NA value effectively means that Blu-ray will require less recording power and lower disc rotation speed than DVD and HD-DVD to achieve the same data transfer rate. While the media itself limited the recording speed in the past, the only limiting factor for Blu-ray is the capacity of the hardware. If we assume a maximum disc rotation speed of 10,000 RPM, then 12x at the outer diameter should be possible (about 400Mbps). This is why the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) already has plans to raise the speed to 8x (288Mbps) or more in the future.

http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/

Pelon208

what happen if the old versions has 12x DVD's and the new versions are 16x? That only means better performance on the newer models?

Are we playing a game where we just make up reasons for things without any sort of first-hand knowledge of the subject? Okay then, my turn! The PS3 has mandatory installs because Kaz Hirai feels that PS3 games are enjoyed 50% more when the player has a sandwich, and he wanted to give players some time to make a sandwich before they play. And thus, mandatory installs and system updates were born!

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

If Sony forces developers to do this, why do some games not have an installation?

Also... Proof?

delta3074

I know, I wanted further clarification and proof though.

TC has yet to post any evidence of these wild claims.

[QUOTE="Pelon208"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]yes but, some 360 drives ARE actually 16 speed, i was suprised as well but i found this ,http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=XBOX360-TS-H943.delta3074

what happen if the old versions has 12x DVD's and the new versions are 16x? That only means better performance on the newer models?

It's and article error.

Check the point 2.4

Are we playing a game where we just make up reasons for things without any sort of first-hand knowledge of the subject? Okay then, my turn! The PS3 has mandatory installs because Kaz Hirai feels that PS3 games are enjoyed 50% more when the player has a sandwich, and he wanted to give players some time to make a sandwich before they play. And thus, mandatory installs and system updates were born!

Teufelhuhn

And this gentlemen its a fact

*its a MODD they are always right :P*

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="jun_aka_pekto"]

I take it the PS3 Slim also uses the same 2x blu ray drive as the original PS3?

Pelon208

You are wrong,

According to the Blu-ray Disc specification, 1x speed is defined as 36Mbps. However, as BD-ROM movies will require a 54Mbps data transfer rate the minimum speed we're expecting to see is 2x (72Mbps). Blu-ray also has the potential for much higher speeds, as a result of the larger numerical aperture (NA) adopted by Blu-ray Disc. The large NA value effectively means that Blu-ray will require less recording power and lower disc rotation speed than DVD and HD-DVD to achieve the same data transfer rate. While the media itself limited the recording speed in the past, the only limiting factor for Blu-ray is the capacity of the hardware. If we assume a maximum disc rotation speed of 10,000 RPM, then 12x at the outer diameter should be possible (about 400Mbps). This is why the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) already has plans to raise the speed to 8x (288Mbps) or more in the future.

The data that can be read on a blu ray its massive.

http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/

There is a difference between Megabitps and MegaByteps (Mbps vs MBps). There are 8 megabits in a megabyte.

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="Pelon208"]

what happen if the old versions has 12x DVD's and the new versions are 16x? That only means better performance on the newer models?

Pelon208

It's and article error.

Check the point 2.4

[QUOTE="Pelon208"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"] It's still just 2x speed a measly 9mb/s while the 360 slim uses a 16x speed DVD which is 22mb/s. lundy86_4

You are wrong,

According to the Blu-ray Disc specification, 1x speed is defined as 36Mbps. However, as BD-ROM movies will require a 54Mbps data transfer rate the minimum speed we're expecting to see is 2x (72Mbps). Blu-ray also has the potential for much higher speeds, as a result of the larger numerical aperture (NA) adopted by Blu-ray Disc. The large NA value effectively means that Blu-ray will require less recording power and lower disc rotation speed than DVD and HD-DVD to achieve the same data transfer rate. While the media itself limited the recording speed in the past, the only limiting factor for Blu-ray is the capacity of the hardware. If we assume a maximum disc rotation speed of 10,000 RPM, then 12x at the outer diameter should be possible (about 400Mbps). This is why the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) already has plans to raise the speed to 8x (288Mbps) or more in the future.

The data that can be read on a blu ray its massive.

http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/

There is a difference between Megabitps and MegaByteps (Mbps vs MBps). There are 8 megabits in a megabyte.

Check the point 2.4 in the article

[QUOTE="Pelon208"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]you also realise your article is talking about mega bits per second (mbps) and not mega bytes per second (MBps) right?delta3074

It's and article error.

Check the point 2.4

don't get me wrong, I know that the 360 dvd is faster, I just wanted to clarified with the other guy that he was wrong in his argument.

Check the point 2.4 in the article

Pelon208

I already did.

A 1x Blu-Ray drive has a transfer rate of 36Mbps (or 4MBps), so a 2x drive would be 72Mbps (or 8MBps).

A 1x DVD drive has a transfer rate of 11.08Mbps (or 1.39MBps), so a 12x drive would be 133Mbps (or 16.63MBps).

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="Pelon208"]

It's and article error.

Check the point 2.4

Pelon208

don't get me wrong, I know that the 360 dvd is faster, I just wanted to clarified with the other guy that he was wrong in his argument.

[QUOTE="Pelon208"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]you also realise that the speeds in that article for Mbps actually match the speeds in the article i posted right? and i checked 2.4, the transfer rate fs for DVD's at 1x speed, not DVD roms at 12x speeddelta3074

don't get me wrong, I know that the 360 dvd is faster, I just wanted to clarified with the other guy that he was wrong in his argument.

So all 360 drives are 16x? I always tough they were 12x. You learn new things everyday.

And my first post with the blu ray info was for 04dcarraher

I did the math a long time ago, and I think it worked out such that a 2x Blu-Ray and a 12x DVD drive were about equal in terms of raw transfer speeds on the inside of the disk, and the DVD drive was about 2x faster on the outside of the disk. However that doesn't account for seek times, which is what really kills you on a disk drive that only spins at 2x.

Didn't read that wall of bull **** Go back to the misc, you swine.

I did the math a long time ago, and I think it worked out such that a 2x Blu-Ray and a 12x DVD drive were about equal in terms of raw transfer speeds on the inside of the disk, and the DVD drive was about 2x faster on the outside of the disk. However that doesn't account for seek times, which is what really kills you on a disk drive that only spins at 2x.

Teufelhuhn

I knew that too. But I though that the 360 was 12x, so for me when people said that the mandatory installs for PS3 games was because of the 2x blu ray I knew was bull ****

I call false on this, because Bluray discs have so much extra space on them, ther eis no need to force max limitations to filesize by sony. No, I sitll believe its read speed of the drives being too slow that's the problem.

the sheer fact that a good 98% of games load faster on the 360 even with a cache or mandatory install on the ps3 pretty much perforates your arguments...can one even load up games without a hard drive present in their ps3? Let alone many games have a requirement of hard drive space for that cache...If the ps3 didn't use a cache games would take forever to load this is a simple fact of the technology when it comes to 2x bluray.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]Bluray 2x speed = 9mb/s , while DVD 20x = 27mb/s but 360 slim uses a 16x =22mb/s Bluray at 6x speed = 27mb/s and 12x is 54mb/s They have to install large texture files onto the hdd because bluray drive to too slow, a hdd can outclass any optical drive.Pelon208

You think that the laser of the DVD and blu ray are the same? And the only difference between the two its only the storage capacity?

I must be the only PS3 user that doesn't care about the load times and doesn't mind the PS3 reading disk noise because it doesn't sound loud at all it's only noticeable when everything else is quiet. I do however mind how freakishly huge the xbox360 is and feel like kicking the sh!t out of that tower.... why the hell is that sh!t so big ?