This just in: video games are all about INSTANT GRATIFICATION.

I have a psychology background, and honestly, video games are just delivery systems for superordinate goals... little mini-goals that have little bearing on your life, but make you feel good about accomplishing. donalbane

I play games because I like the challenge mostly, and I feel it is the "best" artform, although it hasn't been tapped into yet. The challege part is sort of like playing Chess to me, which as you know since you have a psychology background, is good for your brain.

As for the art stuff, I feel that (some) games do this better than others, like for instance in the game Fallout 3 or New Vegas, it's about nuclear survival and you stair across a ruined city at dawn and you can see the destruciton and dead bodies and destroyed cars while Violen music plays. You sort of "paint" a picture of the last moments these people were alive and you can sort of "feel" it if that makes sense....Probably doesn't and mabey it's just me, but that to me is art and is saying something about the world and humanity.

Another example of this is the game Bioshock, it would take too long to explain, but man that game has ALOT to say about society. That game is art. I'm referring to Bioshock 1 mind you...

So what would you call MMOs?

GD1551

MMO's are pretty much built around instant gratification

[QUOTE="Heirren"]

[QUOTE="donalbane"]I have a psychology background, and honestly, video games are just delivery systems for superordinate goals... little mini-goals that have little bearing on your life, but make you feel good about accomplishing. Plamino

That is a rather large assumption and in no way accurate. It could be under certain circumstances, but like I said it is a very large assumption.

Because it is false in a number of cases.

Clearly you haven't played a strategy game.

[QUOTE="donalbane"]I have a psychology background, and honestly, video games are just delivery systems for superordinate goals... little mini-goals that have little bearing on your life, but make you feel good about accomplishing. ShadowMoses900

I play games because I like the challenge mostly, and I feel it is the "best" artform, although it hasn't been tapped into yet. The challege part is sort of like playing Chess to me, which as you know since you have a psychology background, is good for your brain.

As for the art stuff, I feel that (some) games do this better than others, like for instance in the game Fallout 3 or New Vegas, it's about nuclear survival and you stair across a ruined city at dawn and you can see the destruciton and dead bodies and destroyed cars while Violen music plays. You sort of "paint" a picture of the last moments these people were alive and you can sort of "feel" it if that makes sense....Probably doesn't and mabey it's just me, but that to me is art and is saying something about the world and humanity.

Another example of this is the game Bioshock, it would take too long to explain, but man that game has ALOT to say about society. That game is art. I'm referring to Bioshock 1 mind you...

[QUOTE="Plamino"][QUOTE="BrunoBRS"] or a point & click adventure. or an RPG. or anything slower-paced than a beat'em up, shooter or racing game.BrunoBRS

[QUOTE="Heirren"]

[QUOTE="donalbane"]I have a psychology background, and honestly, video games are just delivery systems for superordinate goals... little mini-goals that have little bearing on your life, but make you feel good about accomplishing. Plamino

That is a rather large assumption and in no way accurate. It could be under certain circumstances, but like I said it is a very large assumption.

When have you even brought up the truth?

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Clearly you haven't played a strategy game.

Plamino

Funny how you were careful to avoid the "strategy game" part. You musn't have played many, or if you have, I have to question your analytical skills.

Many strategy games have a steep learning curve, which makes learning to play the game look like work for someone not used to it. But strategy games fans actually enjoy that challenge, and know that once they master the game they will get both a very deep and enjoyable experience, and a feeling of great accomplishment.

Starcraft pro-gamers spend most of their time training like crazy, and parts of that training aren't fun at all. But knowing what awaits beyond that hard work makes it exciting to them, and achieving their goals brings them more enjoyment and satisfaction than any other game could.

I've felt that way every time I've put some effort into becoming competitive in an RTS. Works for TBS too.

Seriously TC, are you trying to break some kind of world record for "guy who's been wrong the greatest number of times on the internet during 24h"? You've been spilling quite a lot of nonsense about gaming in general, and PC gaming in particular, today.

[QUOTE="Plamino"][QUOTE="BrunoBRS"] or a point & click adventure. or an RPG. or anything slower-paced than a beat'em up, shooter or racing game.milannoir

Funny how you were careful to avoid the "strategy game" part. You musn't have played many, or if you have, I have to question your analytical skills.

Many strategy games have a steep learning curve, which makes learning to play the game look like work for someone not used to it. But strategy games fans actually enjoy that challenge, and know that once they master the game they will get both a very deep and enjoyable experience, and a feeling of great accomplishment.

Starcraft pro-gamers spend most of their time training like crazy, and parts of that training aren't fun at all. But knowing what awaits beyond that hard work makes it exciting to them, and achieving their goals brings them more enjoyment and satisfaction than any other game could.

I've felt that way every time I've put some effort into becoming competitive in an RTS. Works for TBS too.

Seriously TC, are you trying to break some kind of world record for "guy who's been wrong the greatest number of times on the internet during 24h"? You've been spilling quite a lot of nonsense about gaming in general, and PC gaming in particular, today.

Hasn't this thread ben proven wrong on page 1?

dark souls is a pretty deep immersing and complex experience. there is no way you can get instant gratification from a game like dark souls, it consists of hours and hours of death, gloom, masochism and fulfillment.

you have to put in the time to recieve any form of entertainment or gratification from Dark Souls, in the form of overcoming impossible obstacles, acquiring powerful loot and repelling player invaders, everything in this game takes time, which is why it is one of the most unique experiences this generation, even more so than the linear Demon's SOuls

A lot of popular modern games like CoD are. But no, not all games are like that. Many RPGs are about dedication and/or grinding. Strategy games and titles known for their difficulty, like Demon's Souls and Ninja Gaiden, are all about trial and error. It simply boils down to that some people find instant gratification more enjoyable while others find overcoming adversity to be more rewarding.

Playing video games can--and I emphazise the "can"--be about instant gratification.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that a lot of them are, but only in a sense, or when following just one of many of the medium's goals. Beating Shadow of the Colossus is instant gratification, but the argument falls appart when the game tries to portray more to the player than just the feeling of winning. Or when the experience I've had with the game stays with me for years.

Now gaming can be instant gratification, hell when I play online games, and I win, I can feel a sense of accomplishment, and quite frankly, I don't see what's so wrong about that. You can still live a life filled with easy and unimportant victories. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's extremely important for the health of an individual. Instant gratification and life-long important victories can coexist with one another. If you go through life, looking only to find difficult victories, how boring would that be exactly?

Just because you set yourself out to write a book that will change people's lives, and actually achieve that, does not mean that you cannot appreciate instant gratification.

Now, in accordance to some psychological studies, having your mind focus so much on instant gratification can be a negative. If you go through life, where the constant epitome of your victories is to win an online match, then hell, you should start taking a look at your priorities. That said, who am I to talk about this stuff, people do with their lives whatever the hell they please.

Besides there are professional gamers making a life out of this, though I guess in this case it would be different. Here you would see these gamers much the same way you see athletes.

Also, instant gratification isn't just something you find in video games. You find it when you exercise sports, hell you find it when you do a lot of things. Like I said, I don't really see what's so wrong with it.

No. A good chunk of my collection happens to be RPGs and Adventures which are slow burning and usually don't become very satisfying for 5 or 10 hours.

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"][QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

Games are about having fun, not instant gratification.

Gratification is fulfillment of a goal, and thus resulting happiness. Fun is pleasure and enjoyment. While the two may overlap at times, they are not the same thing.

No. A good chunk of my collection happens to be RPGs and Adventures which are slow burning and usually don't become very satisfying for 5 or 10 hours.

Whiteblade999

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Clearly you haven't played a strategy game.

Plamino

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

Gratification is fulfillment of a goal, and thus resulting happiness. Fun is pleasure and enjoyment. While the two may overlap at times, they are not the same thing.

Cranler

I don't want to seem rude, but you should try reading what I wrote. I was defining gratification, not gratify. The rest of your post is of little interest to me.

It depends entirely on the game. An RPG like Final Fantasy X can be quite deep whilst games like Call of Duty and Halo aren't.

I play a variety of games to suit whichever mood I'm in. Sometimes I want to sit down and really get into a game, getting to grips with all its depth whereas sometimes I just want to switch off and shoot stuff. Both types of games need to exist IMO.

[QUOTE="Whiteblade999"]

No. A good chunk of my collection happens to be RPGs and Adventures which are slow burning and usually don't become very satisfying for 5 or 10 hours.

Cranler

You liked Gothic 2, Realms of Arkania 2 or Planescape: Torment from the start? I find that very hard to believe since those games have various reasons that it takes them a while to really get going.

If I wanted instant gratification I would go watch TV.

Just admit that gaming is a lazy hobby for those who want instant gratificationCranler

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

Gratification is fulfillment of a goal, and thus resulting happiness. Fun is pleasure and enjoyment. While the two may overlap at times, they are not the same thing.

I don't want to seem rude, but you should try reading what I wrote. I was defining gratification, not gratify. The rest of your post is of little interest to me.

anybody who voted yes clearly hasnt played minecraft, demon/dark souls, dwarf fortress, Arma, or any RPG, puzzle or strategy or game ever.

as for shooters? sure maybe. A lot of them are

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="Whiteblade999"]

No. A good chunk of my collection happens to be RPGs and Adventures which are slow burning and usually don't become very satisfying for 5 or 10 hours.

You liked Gothic 2, Realms of Arkania 2 or Planescape: Torment from the start? I find that very hard to believe since those games have various reasons that it takes them a while to really get going.

If I wanted instant gratification I would go watch TV.

[QUOTE="Cranler"]Just admit that gaming is a lazy hobby for those who want instant gratificationskrat_01

It varies by game and that's what makes gaming great. Want a shallow game with little depth, instant gratification, and action packed gameplay? Play Call of Duty or some other arcade style game. Want a deep game with a great story, deep gameplay, and different ways of approaching the same situation? Play something like Deus Ex, an rpg, an rts, or some other game with those attributes. There are plenty of games for everybody even if some games are more popular than others.Moriarity_

[QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="Cranler"]Just admit that gaming is a lazy hobby for those who want instant gratificationCranler

It's just entertainment.

While I conceded that the TC had a point, I have to reiterate that the point doesn't fall on every single element of a game. And people in this thread are making a somewhat marred comparison between Instant gratification and dificulty or even the complexity or longevity of a game--which kind of falls into your post. A game may still be complex, yet it offers instant gratification when in comparison to a lot of other activities or goals.

That said though, I still don't see the point.

It's no more lazy than watching television, listening to music, watching a movie or looking at a painting. How about reading a book? Same deal.

Playing an instrument requires practice, and depending on what you play it may require creativity too. Playing video games may also require practice, and creativity as well on some games. Professional players practice and show a level of skill you could find on the greatest of the guitarist, hell, it might actually require much more dedication and commitment than playing a lot of instruments, so I don't know where that stands in your argument.

But that's just the thing though, when you play an instrument you're exercising your creativity--at least at some level. When I write, or draw, or make a damn 3d model, I'm exercising my creativity. When I play a game, I might do the same. When I watch a movie, read a book, or look at a painting? Not at all, the only thing that might be extracted is inspiration.

These hobby's have very distinct characteristics, and of course some will require more commitment than others. I would imagine it would require more commitment to write an award winning novel, than finishing most of the games this gen. But then again, that's expected, and I don't see why anyone would see it otherwise, or why such would matter to begin with.

Depends on the games. Some games it holds true. On other games, I like the details such as the weather engine in FSX:

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="skrat_01"] Gaming isn't anything specifically. It's not that hard to understand. Games can be about godamn anything.StealthSting

It's just entertainment.

It's no more lazy than watching television, listening to music, watching a movie or looking at a painting. How about reading a book? Same deal.

Playing an instrument requires practice, and depending on what you play it may require creativity too. Playing video games may also require practice, and creativity as well on some games. Professional players practice and show a level of skill you could find on the greatest of the guitarist, hell, it might actually require much more dedication and commitment than playing a lot of instruments, so I don't know where that stands in your argument.

But that's just the thing though, when you play an instrument you're exercising your creativity--at least at some level. When I write, or draw, or make a damn 3d model, I'm exercising my creativity. When I play a game, I might do the same. When I watch a movie, read a book, or look at a painting? Not at all, the only thing that might be extracted is inspiration.

These hobby's have very distinct characteristics, and of course some will require more commitment than others. I would imagine it would require more commitment to write an award winning novel, than finishing most of the games this gen. But then again, that's expected, and I don't see why anyone would see it otherwise, or why such would matter to begin with.

Did a bunch of PC gamers kill your family and desecrated their corpses or something?

Some videogames are about instant gratifaction. Other games aren't. Do you play harvest moon for instant gratification? No you play it for the long term goals. Many game feature long term goas as rewards and delayed gratification. This is true of games like Sim City, Civilization, and can even be true of games like the classic Resident Evil games. Many games feature plans that take time for the player to enact. Like SRPGs.

Some videogames are about instant gratifaction. Other games aren't. Do you play harvest moon for instant gratification? No you play it for the long term goals. Many game feature long term goas as rewards and delayed gratification. This is true of games like Sim City, Civilization, and can even be true of games like the classic Resident Evil games. Many games feature plans that take time for the player to enact. Like SRPGs.

hakanakumono