Great interview with some Darksiders developers. Sounds like Nintendo hit a homerun in ease of development for the console.
LINK.
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[QUOTE="SaltyMeatballs"]Cool they can port, but I hope they optimise games well. Not just port and be happy with 360 graphics, go beyond that.i3DSDid you watch the interview? Sounds awesome what they're using the controller for. No, watching now.
Meh, not interested in another gimmick from Nintendo. i5750at4GhzIt's only a gimmick till everyone starts incorporating it into their own systems. See also: analog stick, rumble, touch screens and motion controls.
Meh, not interested in another gimmick from Nintendo. i5750at4Ghz
Have fun using Move and an overhauled Eyetoy next playstation.
Seems like Nintendo carried over how easy it was to develop with the Wii, to the Wii-U according to these guys. They're obviously very, very excited about what they get to do :D
[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"]Meh, not interested in another gimmick from Nintendo. funsohngYes because everything Nintendo does is a gimmick Pretty much, 3D, motion controls, balance boards ect. None of these things made for a better gaming experience. The fact everyone else is doing it as well, doesn't somehow make it better.
What Nintendo console hasn't been easy to develop for? Why is this news?bluelfThe N64 was quite eccentric. Wasn't it like the PS3 of its time?
[QUOTE="bluelf"]What Nintendo console hasn't been easy to develop for? Why is this news?charizard1605The N64 was quite eccentric. Wasn't it like the PS3 of its time? N64 had limited ram if I remember correctly, which is true for both the PS3 and 360.
[QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="bluelf"]What Nintendo console hasn't been easy to develop for? Why is this news?i5750at4GhzThe N64 was quite eccentric. Wasn't it like the PS3 of its time? N64 had limited ram if I remember correctly, which is true for both the PS3 and 360. Yes, and wasn't there an issue with latency and Z buffering too? I think I'll look it up and post it here.
[QUOTE="bluelf"]What Nintendo console hasn't been easy to develop for? Why is this news?charizard1605The N64 was quite eccentric. Wasn't it like the PS3 of its time?I remember reading somewhere that even Nintendo's first party had trouble developing for the 64, so I'm pretty sure you're right.
What Nintendo console hasn't been easy to develop for? Why is this news?bluelf3 people, 5 weeks? That's incredibly easy.
[QUOTE="bluelf"]What Nintendo console hasn't been easy to develop for? Why is this news?charizard1605The N64 was quite eccentric. Wasn't it like the PS3 of its time?
I think that would be the Saturn, if the Playstation wasn't hard to develop for. Sony has a history of making their consoles complicated just to discourage ports.
[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"][QUOTE="charizard1605"] The N64 was quite eccentric. Wasn't it like the PS3 of its time?charizard1605N64 had limited ram if I remember correctly, which is true for both the PS3 and 360. Yes, and wasn't there an issue with latency and Z buffering too? I think I'll look it up and post it here. Yes, so it seems I was right.
From Wikipedia:
The Nintendo 64 had weaknesses that were caused by a combination of oversight on the part of the hardware designers, limitations on 3D technology of the time, and manufacturing capabilities. One major flaw was the limited texturecacheof 4KB. This made it difficult to load anything but small, lowcolor depthtextures into the rendering engine. This small texture limitation caused blurring due to developers stretching small textures to cover a surface, and then the console'sbilinear filteringwould blur them further. To make matters worse, due to the design of the renderer, ifmipmappingwas used, the texture cache was effectively halved to 2KB. Towards the end of Nintendo 64's lifetime, creative developers managed to use tricks, such as multi-layered texturing and heavily-clamped, small texture pieces, to simulate larger textures.Perfect Dark,Banjo-Tooie, andConker's Bad Fur Dayare possibly the best examples of this ingenuity, all of which were developed byRare. Games often also used plain coloredGouraud shadinginstead of texturing on certain surfaces, especially in games with themes not targeting realism (e.g.,Super Mario 64).[36] There were other challenges for developers to work around.Z-bufferingsignificantly crippled the RDP's fill rate. Thus, for maximum performance,[37]most Nintendo 64 games were actually fill-rate limited, not geometry limited, which is ironic considering the great concern for the Nintendo 64's low polygon per second rating of only about 100,000;[38]however, some of the most polygon-intense Nintendo 64 games, such asWorld Driver Championship, frequently pushed past the Sony PlayStation's typical in-game polygon counts. The unified memory subsystem of Nintendo 64 was another critical weakness for the machine. TheRDRAMhad very high accesslatency,[39]which nearly negated its high bandwidth advantage. In addition, game developers commented that the Nintendo 64's memory controller setup was poor. The R4300 CPU was severely limited at memory access since it had to go through the RCP to access main memory,[40]and could not useDMAto do so. One of the best examples of custom microcode on the Nintendo 64 was Factor 5's N64 port of theIndiana Jones and the Infernal MachinePC game. The Factor 5 team aimed for the high resolution mode (640×480)[41]because of the crispness it added to the visuals. The machine was taxed to the limit running at 640×480, so they needed performance beyond the standard SGI microcode. The Z-buffer could not be used because it alone consumed the already-constrained texture fill-rate. To work around the 4KB texture cache, the programmers came up with custom texture formats and tools to let the artists use the best possible textures. Each texture was analyzed and fitted to best texture format for performance and quality. They took advantage of the cartridge as a texturestreamingsource to squeeze as much detail as possible into each environment and work around RAM limitations. They wrote microcode for real-time lighting, since the SGI code was poor for this task and they wanted to have even more lighting than the PC version had used. Factor 5's microcode allowed almost unlimited real-time lighting and significantly boosted the polygon count. In the end, the game was more feature-filled than the PC version, and unsurprisingly, was one of the most advanced games for Nintendo 64.[42] Factor 5 again used custom microcode with games such asStar Wars: Rogue SquadronandStar Wars: Battle for Naboo. InStar Wars: Rogue Squadron, the team tweaked the microcode for a landscape engine to create the alien worlds. ForStar Wars: Battle for Naboo, they used what they learned fromRogue Squadronand made the game run at 640×480, also implementing enhancements for particles and the landscape engine.Battle for Naboohad a longdraw distanceand large amounts of snow and rain, despite the high resolution.[43]
The N64 was quite eccentric. Wasn't it like the PS3 of its time?[QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="bluelf"]What Nintendo console hasn't been easy to develop for? Why is this news?hakanakumono
I think that would be the Saturn, if the Playstation wasn't hard to develop for. Sony has a history of making their consoles complicated just to discourage ports.
Oh yes, I forgot about the Saturn and its two CPU architecture. The thing with the Playstation though is, companies eventually managed to max it out. Which is more than can be said for the N64 and Saturn, those two were so eccentric that companies never did manage to harness all their capabilities effectively.The N64 was quite eccentric. Wasn't it like the PS3 of its time?I remember reading somewhere that even Nintendo's first party had trouble developing for the 64, so I'm pretty sure you're right. I still think that only Rare and Miyamoto's team ever truly got the hang of that console.[QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="bluelf"]What Nintendo console hasn't been easy to develop for? Why is this news?Kiro0
[QUOTE="funsohng"][QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"]Meh, not interested in another gimmick from Nintendo. i5750at4GhzYes because everything Nintendo does is a gimmick Pretty much, 3D, motion controls, balance boards ect. None of these things made for a better gaming experience. The fact everyone else is doing it as well, doesn't somehow make it better. Yes, we should always play the same games on same goddamn setup because every new things should be killed with fire.
[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"]Meh, not interested in another gimmick from Nintendo. charizard1605It's only a gimmick till everyone starts incorporating it into their own systems. See also: analog stick, rumble, touch screens and motion controls. What about the graphics...??They will better than the Darksiders 2 on the 360 or the same..??
Have fun using Move and an overhauled Eyetoy next playstation.
ChubbyGuy40
Unlike Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony dont force their ridiculous gimmicks on their userbase ;).
[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"][QUOTE="funsohng"] Yes because everything Nintendo does is a gimmickfunsohngPretty much, 3D, motion controls, balance boards ect. None of these things made for a better gaming experience. The fact everyone else is doing it as well, doesn't somehow make it better.
Yes, we should always play the same games on same goddamn setup because every new things should be killed with fire.
Pretty much, keyboard and mouse has been around since forever and nothing has topped it yet imo.Until I play a good game with a motion controler that couldn't be played any other way I'll pass.
[QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"]Meh, not interested in another gimmick from Nintendo. AtariKidXIt's only a gimmick till everyone starts incorporating it into their own systems. See also: analog stick, rumble, touch screens and motion controls. What about the graphics...??They will better than the Darksiders 2 on the 360 or the same..??
SUPPOSE to be better
What about the graphics...??They will better than the Darksiders 2 on the 360 or the same..??[QUOTE="AtariKidX"][QUOTE="charizard1605"] It's only a gimmick till everyone starts incorporating it into their own systems. See also: analog stick, rumble, touch screens and motion controls.Mario1331
SUPPOSE to be better
Who do you know that...??It is hard for me to believe that.I have a 360, PS3 and a gaming PC. DarkSiders 2 will be on those platforms. Why would i really care about using the WiiU tablet for playing that game or any other 3rd party multiplatform game? I very seriously doubt that tablet will add much to the game play experience.
[QUOTE="bluelf"]What Nintendo console hasn't been easy to develop for? Why is this news?charizard1605The N64 was quite eccentric. Wasn't it like the PS3 of its time?
not really. it was actually quite easy to develop for, the problem was its limited cache.
Yes, and wasn't there an issue with latency and Z buffering too? I think I'll look it up and post it here. Yes, so it seems I was right.[QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"] N64 had limited ram if I remember correctly, which is true for both the PS3 and 360.charizard1605
From Wikipedia:
The Nintendo 64 had weaknesses that were caused by a combination of oversight on the part of the hardware designers, limitations on 3D technology of the time, and manufacturing capabilities. One major flaw was the limited texturecacheof 4KB. This made it difficult to load anything but small, lowcolor depthtextures into the rendering engine. This small texture limitation caused blurring due to developers stretching small textures to cover a surface, and then the console'sbilinear filteringwould blur them further. To make matters worse, due to the design of the renderer, ifmipmappingwas used, the texture cache was effectively halved to 2KB. Towards the end of Nintendo 64's lifetime, creative developers managed to use tricks, such as multi-layered texturing and heavily-clamped, small texture pieces, to simulate larger textures.Perfect Dark,Banjo-Tooie, andConker's Bad Fur Dayare possibly the best examples of this ingenuity, all of which were developed byRare. Games often also used plain coloredGouraud shadinginstead of texturing on certain surfaces, especially in games with themes not targeting realism (e.g.,Super Mario 64).[36]
There were other challenges for developers to work around.Z-bufferingsignificantly crippled the RDP's fill rate. Thus, for maximum performance,[37]most Nintendo 64 games were actually fill-rate limited, not geometry limited, which is ironic considering the great concern for the Nintendo 64's low polygon per second rating of only about 100,000;[38]however, some of the most polygon-intense Nintendo 64 games, such asWorld Driver Championship, frequently pushed past the Sony PlayStation's typical in-game polygon counts.
The unified memory subsystem of Nintendo 64 was another critical weakness for the machine. TheRDRAMhad very high accesslatency,[39]which nearly negated its high bandwidth advantage. In addition, game developers commented that the Nintendo 64's memory controller setup was poor. The R4300 CPU was severely limited at memory access since it had to go through the RCP to access main memory,[40]and could not useDMAto do so.
One of the best examples of custom microcode on the Nintendo 64 was Factor 5's N64 port of theIndiana Jones and the Infernal MachinePC game. The Factor 5 team aimed for the high resolution mode (640×480)[41]because of the crispness it added to the visuals. The machine was taxed to the limit running at 640×480, so they needed performance beyond the standard SGI microcode. The Z-buffer could not be used because it alone consumed the already-constrained texture fill-rate. To work around the 4KB texture cache, the programmers came up with custom texture formats and tools to let the artists use the best possible textures. Each texture was analyzed and fitted to best texture format for performance and quality. They took advantage of the cartridge as a texturestreamingsource to squeeze as much detail as possible into each environment and work around RAM limitations. They wrote microcode for real-time lighting, since the SGI code was poor for this task and they wanted to have even more lighting than the PC version had used. Factor 5's microcode allowed almost unlimited real-time lighting and significantly boosted the polygon count. In the end, the game was more feature-filled than the PC version, and unsurprisingly, was one of the most advanced games for Nintendo 64.[42]
Factor 5 again used custom microcode with games such asStar Wars: Rogue SquadronandStar Wars: Battle for Naboo. InStar Wars: Rogue Squadron, the team tweaked the microcode for a landscape engine to create the alien worlds. ForStar Wars: Battle for Naboo, they used what they learned fromRogue Squadronand made the game run at 640×480, also implementing enhancements for particles and the landscape engine.Battle for Naboohad a longdraw distanceand large amounts of snow and rain, despite the high resolution.[43]
guess it was more than just limited cache. :P
[QUOTE="Mario1331"][QUOTE="AtariKidX"] What about the graphics...??They will better than the Darksiders 2 on the 360 or the same..??AtariKidX
SUPPOSE to be better
Who do you know that...??It is hard for me to believe that. Why, because its Nintendo? It was easy for developers to port DS2, that and it has been said many times Wii U will be stronger than PS3.*Closes eyes and wishes* Please be $300 or less, please be $300 or less...getyeryayasout
don't count on it. Iwata said it would be... "expensive."
[QUOTE="theuncharted34"]
[QUOTE="getyeryayasout"]*Closes eyes and wishes* Please be $300 or less, please be $300 or less...getyeryayasout
don't count on it. Iwata said it would be... "expensive."
*Continues wishing, now just a little harder*:Pand I'll wish with you man! :cry:
[QUOTE="Mercenary848"]Nintendo desperately needs 3rd party support though. Porting games is a cheap and easy way for 3rd parties to make inroads with the Ninty faithful.This is good, but please dont flood it with ports.
getyeryayasout
Your right, I guess I just do not want the Wii U to go the early wii route and the only good 3rd party games were ports.(I still need to play manhunt 2).
Nintendo desperately needs 3rd party support though. Porting games is a cheap and easy way for 3rd parties to make inroads with the Ninty faithful.[QUOTE="getyeryayasout"][QUOTE="Mercenary848"]
This is good, but please dont flood it with ports.
Mercenary848
Your right, I guess I just do not want the Wii U to go the early wii route and the only good 3rd party games were ports.(I still need to play manhunt 2).
This is the first time I have seen someone reply to another persons post in SW with "your right".
[QUOTE="AtariKidX"][QUOTE="Mario1331"]Who do you know that...??It is hard for me to believe that. Why, because its Nintendo? It was easy for developers to port DS2, that and it has been said many times Wii U will be stronger than PS3.SUPPOSE to be better
Arbiterisl33t69
why would it be hard to believe a stronger system would have better graphics?.....are you joking?
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