Tony Blair attacks Sony for use of Manchester Cathedral

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gameruk2010

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#1 gameruk2010
Member since 2005 • 1058 Posts


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article1929072.ece

The Prime Minister today gave his backing to the Church of England in the row over Sony's use of Manchester Cathedral as a setting for a gory computer game.

Tony Blair told Parliament there was a need for large organisations such as Sony to have both "some sense of responsibility and some sensitivity to the feelings of communities." He said there was a need for recognition that "there is a wider social responsibility" that goes beyond simply the "responsibility for profit" whatever the cost.

His comments came as the Dean of Manchester, he Very Reverend Rogers Govender, disclosed that Sony had made no formal contact since the row was disclosed by The Times last Friday night.

Virtual images of the interior of the cathedral feature prominently in a violent shoot-out in the flagship PlayStation 3 game Resistance: Fall of Man.

Manchester Cathedral has called for all copies of the game to be pulled from shelves and Sony make a "substantial donation" to church charities. The game has sold more than one million copies and depicts a fictional 1950s world where the Second World War never happened and alien Chimera are trying to take over the planet.

At a press conference in Manchester this afternoon, the Dean thanked the Prime Minister for his comments and repeated that the cathedral as a backdrop for the bloodthirsty game was "highly irresponsible".

The computer game shows scenes of bloody violence where players must shoot dead a host of enemies using weapons such as a Rossmore 236 close-quarter combat shotgun, the L23 fareye sniper rifle and an XR-005 Hailstorm chaingun.

Cathedral clergy believe the use of Manchester as a setting for the shoot-out game is particularly inappropriate because of the city's history of gun violence. A Church spokesman said the issue had provoked particular controversy in Japan.

The Dean said: "On Monday we sent a letter to Sony outlining our concerns and making some key demands. Today I want to report that since sending that letter we have had no formal response from Sony.

We believe a silent response on the issue is not acceptable behaviour for a responsible large corporate body. Today I want to appeal directly to the people of Japan to help us put pressure on Sony to respond.

So I speak directly to those citizens who share our concerns. "For a global manufacturer to recreate the interior of any religious building such as a mosque, synagogue, or in this case, a cathedral, with photo realistic quality and then encourage people to have gun battles in the building is beyond belief and in our view highly irresponsible."

He once again called on Sony to withdraw the game, to apologise unreservedly for using the interior without permission and to make a substantial donation to the Church's education department which helps tackle gun violence. The cathedral is consulting lawyers over what to do next.

A Sony spokesman refused to comment, but said the company had been in contact with the cathedral by telephone on more than one occasion.

:evil::evil::evil:

..anybody care to guess what happens next...




Also, ever wondered what his kids are playing

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SpecialForcesOp

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#2 SpecialForcesOp
Member since 2007 • 1043 Posts

It's just a game................... :idea:

his kids are playing Everyone's Golf 5.

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PelekotansDream

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#3 PelekotansDream
Member since 2005 • 7602 Posts

Awsome. I agree though to be honest.

Sony should be more considerate to feelings of the community. So many games these days are just voilence and more voilence. It gets annoying after a while.

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Shazenab

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#4 Shazenab
Member since 2004 • 3413 Posts
that doesn't look like chery (sp) blair.. are you sure that's her? Although I'm not very happy about this the uk is a great place to be a gamer- hardly anything really gets banned and there has never been a serious outright call for video game bans.. Unlike the US and Germany.
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daveg1

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#5 daveg1
Member since 2005 • 20405 Posts

i dont think anyone here in the uk cares what tony blair thinks or says...

i bet he's completed the game many times......p.s. his psn I.D. is BIG TONY B...

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SpecialForcesOp

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#6 SpecialForcesOp
Member since 2007 • 1043 Posts

Awsome. I agree though to be honest.

Sony should be more considerate to feelings of the community. So many games these days are just voilence and more voilence. It gets annoying after a while.

PelekotansDream

Well what do u want them to be about?

Gumdrops and Lolipops and Commerical Bullcrap? One of the many reasons I stopped watching TV altogether.

All this violence is merly for entertainment value.

*goes back to playing Viva Pinata.*:oops:

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SergeantSnitch

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#7 SergeantSnitch
Member since 2007 • 3692 Posts
Honestly, I don't understand this whole deal. You're fighting against ALIEN CREATURES for the salvation of humans in a replica of a church. Have they not played video games before? My guess is that they are just hating on Sony because that's the cool thing to do.
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Toaster_Cell

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#8 Toaster_Cell
Member since 2006 • 3062 Posts
[QUOTE="PelekotansDream"]

Awsome. I agree though to be honest.

Sony should be more considerate to feelings of the community. So many games these days are just voilence and more voilence. It gets annoying after a while.

SpecialForcesOp

Well what do u want them to be about?

Gumdrops and Lolipops and Commerical Bullcrap? One of the many reasons I stopped watching TV altogether.

All this violence is merly for entertainment value.

*goes back to playing Viva Pinata.* :oops:

You win

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JiveT

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#9 JiveT
Member since 2005 • 8619 Posts
LOL the calls for video game bans aren't serious in the USA. They are serious in Germany because all kinds of games get banned or seriously toned down there. Besides America has a Bill of Rights and you people in the UK are "subjects" with no such guarantees. As for this Manchester thing it seems Sony has taken sides with Old Scratch and they are finding he's not the best of partners.
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Kestastrophe

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#10 Kestastrophe
Member since 2005 • 4354 Posts

Sony should be more considerate to feelings of the community.

PelekotansDream

It's not like the setting was a children's hospital. The church was prolly used because it was easily recognizable as a historic British location, not to defame or undermine the church. However, since I do not belong to that church, I cannot honestly say how I would feel about this.

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Riviera_Phantom

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#11 Riviera_Phantom
Member since 2006 • 3658 Posts
LMFAO at the Cherie Blair pic.
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Kestastrophe

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#12 Kestastrophe
Member since 2005 • 4354 Posts

My guess is that they are just hating on Sony because that's the cool thing to do.SergeantSnitch

Yeah, because churches are know for doing what is cool. :roll:

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Shazenab

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#13 Shazenab
Member since 2004 • 3413 Posts

LOL the calls for video game bans aren't serious in the USA. They are serious in Germany because all kinds of games get banned or seriously toned down there. Besides America has a Bill of Rights and you people in the UK are "subjects" with no such guarantees. As for this Manchester thing it seems Sony has taken sides with Old Scratch and they are finding he's not the best of partners.JiveT

USA=Jack Thompson. Plus you forget that the development studio that develops GTA and Manhunt dwell here in the UK.

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StealthSting

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#14 StealthSting
Member since 2006 • 6915 Posts

"On Monday we sent a letter to Sony outlining our concerns and making some key demands"

Hmm I wonder what those would be?

"He once again called on Sony to withdraw the game, to apologise unreservedly for using the interior without permission and to make a substantial donation to the Church's education department which helps tackle gun violence. The cathedral is consulting lawyers over what to do next."

Ohh but of course! Donations? :lol: But of course as well :lol:

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Phil_Ken_Sebben

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#15 Phil_Ken_Sebben
Member since 2007 • 344 Posts

Ha.

They want 'donations'. Godammit, they want me to stay atheist.

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marioblah

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#16 marioblah
Member since 2004 • 793 Posts

Did that article say bloody violence?:roll:

There's barely any blood in the game, its basically splashes of red. They want blood, play GeOW.

I hate the clergy.

They should Ban GeOW because the Bible never states that the Locust were ever created

They should Ban FFX because the characters go against the Church

They should ban any other game that uses the church because of course, violenmce in church settings are bad.

If the Clergy wins, I will have lost all my hope for mankind.

And it just seems like they are cashing in on the success. Donations?:roll:

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ChinoJamesKeene

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#17 ChinoJamesKeene
Member since 2003 • 1201 Posts

What a load of BS, they should shut up...

The bishop barely mentions anything thats offensive about the images, they aren't even killing poeple. I doubt he knows anything about the game and is virtually demanding money from Sony, makes me sick. And its notreally even Sony's fault, If their developers see something they like and their artists.

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SergeantSnitch

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#18 SergeantSnitch
Member since 2007 • 3692 Posts
I feel bad for Sony...their one and only million seller is being threatened to be taken off the market...Lol, sooo bad!
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gameruk2010

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#19 gameruk2010
Member since 2005 • 1058 Posts

[QUOTE="SergeantSnitch"]I feel bad for Sony...their one and only million seller is being threatened to be taken off the market...Lol, sooo bad!

Like they say. There is no bad publicty.

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jcwordlife

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#20 jcwordlife
Member since 2004 • 2686 Posts

Ha.

They want 'donations'. Godammit, they want me to stay atheist.

Phil_Ken_Sebben

LMAO! :lol:

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Phil_Ken_Sebben

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#21 Phil_Ken_Sebben
Member since 2007 • 344 Posts

Im willing to be that the 'kill count' of the combined christian church (all divisions of christianity), is much higher than any video game...

Church simply wants to milk Sony of its money. They will play the sympathy card, and 'teh violentz gamez' many times over.


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darthogre

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#22 darthogre
Member since 2006 • 5082 Posts
Tony Blair has lost all crediablity. Maybe Bush's choke chain is cutting the circulation to his brain and he doesn't remember he is partly responsible for the violence in Iraq. Maybe he should concentrate his efforts there rather than a virtual world. Obviously he is trying to deflect his handling of the war using any method possible. This reminds me of politics here in the states......bad political news and suddenly a bill out lawing gay marriages comes out. lol, Blair is just pathetic.
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NobuoMusicMaker

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#23 NobuoMusicMaker
Member since 2005 • 6628 Posts
Tony Blair's a tool. Just like Dubbaya.
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StealthSting

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#24 StealthSting
Member since 2006 • 6915 Posts

Tony Blair has lost all crediablity. Maybe Bush's choke chain is cutting the circulation to his brain and he doesn't remember he is partly responsible for the violence in Iraq. Maybe he should concentrate his efforts there rather than a virtual world. Obviously he is trying to deflect his handling of the war using any method possible. This reminds me of politics here in the states......bad political news and suddenly a bill out lawing gay marriages comes out. lol, Blair is just pathetic.darthogre

Of course much like the situation on the church. They need money to sustain said church and well this is but one way to get it.

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Firelore29

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#25 Firelore29
Member since 2007 • 4158 Posts
All Sony needed to do would have been to discussed this with some people at the Church before they made the game and this would have never happened. Granted it's blown out of proportion but Sony should have used their brains before they released the game.
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Phil_Ken_Sebben

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#26 Phil_Ken_Sebben
Member since 2007 • 344 Posts

All Sony needed to do would have been to discussed this with some people at the Church before they made the game and this would have never happened. Granted it's blown out of proportion but Sony should have used their brains before they released the game.Firelore29
Actually it isnt required for public buildings.

Same goes for film and TV.

A lawer dude did a whole speal about how the church would get owned in the event of a lawsuit on Kotaku.

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Wanderer5

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#27 Wanderer5
Member since 2006 • 25727 Posts

Again do they know the meaning of fiction? I don't see aliens attacking the church in real life. Plus fights in church are use in many movies and games. I wonder what Tony Blair reaction will be when he see Hellgate: London.

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PelekotansDream

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#28 PelekotansDream
Member since 2005 • 7602 Posts
[QUOTE="PelekotansDream"]

Awsome. I agree though to be honest.

Sony should be more considerate to feelings of the community. So many games these days are just voilence and more voilence. It gets annoying after a while.

SpecialForcesOp

Well what do u want them to be about?

Gumdrops and Lolipops and Commerical Bullcrap? One of the many reasons I stopped watching TV altogether.

All this violence is merly for entertainment value.

*goes back to playing Viva Pinata.*:oops:

You obviously have no idea what I meant do you? Yeah of course.

I agree with Tony that they should have more responsibility. And am getting tired of playing so many voilent and gory games, why is that a problem if I feel that way?

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Phil_Ken_Sebben

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#29 Phil_Ken_Sebben
Member since 2007 • 344 Posts

Again do they know the meaning of fiction? I don't see aliens attacking the church in real life. Plus fights in church are use in many movies and games. I wonder what Tony Blair reaction will be when he see Hellgate: London.

Wanderer5

LoL

"Noes not teh Westminister Abbey"!!!

"ZOMG teh houses of parliment has teh zombiez noes"!!!

I cant beleive no one gives a toss about the Getaway....

The Devs re-created London, and its sold WAY more than R:FoM

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ChinoJamesKeene

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#30 ChinoJamesKeene
Member since 2003 • 1201 Posts
It hard for execs to know what the developers are doing down to the detail of using a real church as a setting, should not even be an issue.
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JiveT

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#31 JiveT
Member since 2005 • 8619 Posts
I don't know what that lawyer on Kotaku said but the church is harping on the fact they rendered the interior which is different from the exterior when it comes to legal stuff like copyright or whatever the proper term would be.
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PelekotansDream

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#32 PelekotansDream
Member since 2005 • 7602 Posts
[QUOTE="PelekotansDream"]

Sony should be more considerate to feelings of the community.

Kestastrophe

It's not like the setting was a children's hospital. The church was prolly used because it was easily recognizable as a historic British location, not to defame or undermine the church. However, since I do not belong to that church, I cannot honestly say how I would feel about this.

I know but they need to be more careful, they just keep getting into trouble, I know they don't want to offend people but people just get upset.
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Phil_Ken_Sebben

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#33 Phil_Ken_Sebben
Member since 2007 • 344 Posts

I don't know what that lawyer on Kotaku said but the church is harping on the fact they rendered the interior which is different from the exterior when it comes to legal stuff like copyright or whatever the proper term would be.JiveT

Found IT!

Over the weekend, we posted that the Church of England was up in arms about Manchester Cathedral being used in Resistance without permission. Apparently, the Anglican Church is even considering taking legal action against developer Insomniac. But do they even have legal grounds to do so? According to British solicitor Alex Chapman:


The Church will have an uphill battle in a legal claim against Sony, and indeed it is likely that there is no basis for a claim... There is no law against insensitivity and as with many matters of this kind, it is the public reaction that might be more damaging than the legal one.

Under British law, copyright infringement cannot be brought against buildings and sculptures that are on permanent public display. Even if the church was copyrighted, it probably has expired as copyrights become null seventy years after the person who's created the work has died. What does this mean? Chapman continues:

...public buildings are generally fair game for inclusion in videogames, films et cetera, and it is something that their owners just have to accept.

Insomniac has declined to comment on the situation, and SCEA spokesperson Dave Karraker says Sony Computer Entertainment Europe is handling the situation directly with the authorities in Manchester. Considering that Resistance has been out since last fall and a million copies have already been sold, doesn't the Anglican Church seem late to the party? Not to mention out of touch. Brian Ashcraft

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darthogre

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#34 darthogre
Member since 2006 • 5082 Posts

I don't know what that lawyer on Kotaku said but the church is harping on the fact they rendered the interior which is different from the exterior when it comes to legal stuff like copyright or whatever the proper term would be.JiveT

Wait, SOE came out and said the chruch inside is not a replica of the real thing. They said they didn't take pictures of the church so everything seen in game is artistic expression.

This remind me of that funny arse law suite with Spiderman years ago. When SOE changed the look of Timesquare a certain company tried to sue them......of course until they were laughed at.

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DireToad

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#35 DireToad
Member since 2006 • 3948 Posts
This is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

What city doesn't have some sort of gun problem?


Sticking it to stupid organized religion, Sony +1
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DXGreat1_HGL

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#36 DXGreat1_HGL
Member since 2003 • 7543 Posts
I'm laughing at people defending Sony here. It's ok for Sony to crap all overreligion now? Of course, all the cows will try to say it's ok. If Blair attracks MS then we must all stop.
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PelekotansDream

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#37 PelekotansDream
Member since 2005 • 7602 Posts
[QUOTE="SpecialForcesOp"][QUOTE="PelekotansDream"]

Awsome. I agree though to be honest.

Sony should be more considerate to feelings of the community. So many games these days are just voilence and more voilence. It gets annoying after a while.

Toaster_Cell

Well what do u want them to be about?

Gumdrops and Lolipops and Commerical Bullcrap? One of the many reasons I stopped watching TV altogether.

All this violence is merly for entertainment value.

*goes back to playing Viva Pinata.* :oops:

You win

For bashing an opinion? Wow, how mature -_-
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Phil_Ken_Sebben

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#38 Phil_Ken_Sebben
Member since 2007 • 344 Posts

Oh noes teh game encourages gun violence, while the game is based off the gun that originally created the violence - to begin with.

Goddammit everythings a scapegoat nowdays.

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dhjohns

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#39 dhjohns
Member since 2003 • 5105 Posts

i dont think anyone here in the uk cares what tony blair thinks or says...

i bet he's completed the game many times......p.s. his psn I.D. is BIG TONY B...

daveg1

:lol: You sure his id isn't Bushie's Little Bro. I would have used worse language but this is a family site. :P

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Phil_Ken_Sebben

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#40 Phil_Ken_Sebben
Member since 2007 • 344 Posts

I'm laughing at people defending Sony here. It's ok for Sony to crap all overreligion now? Of course, all the cows will try to say it's ok. If Blair attracks MS then we must all stop.DXGreat1_HGL
Im sure if this was an Msoft game, the church would do the same thing.

Instead of divinding into SW factions, i reckon gamers should band together to protect games from bogus crap like this.

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TNT_Slug

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#41 TNT_Slug
Member since 2007 • 1735 Posts
You know, they wouldn't be in such an uproar if they didn't actually have something to hide... Something like an alien invasion! Ha!
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DireToad

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#42 DireToad
Member since 2006 • 3948 Posts
I'm laughing at people defending Sony here. It's ok for Sony to crap all overreligion now? Of course, all the cows will try to say it's ok. If Blair attracks MS then we must all stop.DXGreat1_HGL



You're making a big deal out of nothing.
Much like this church is.


Legally, Sony has done nothing wrong.
Morally, Sony has done nothing wrong.
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bigLLL

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#43 bigLLL
Member since 2005 • 3688 Posts

This is a disgrace by the church play the sympothy vote to get "donations" off sony, the game is about damn aliens, there killing aliens which are not from the planet earth and do not excist, there not killing humans and in no way has the church sueing really sat down and played/looked at the game in depth to realise this, it's just about public sympothy and money!!! what a disgrace

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DXGreat1_HGL

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#44 DXGreat1_HGL
Member since 2003 • 7543 Posts

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]I'm laughing at people defending Sony here. It's ok for Sony to crap all overreligion now? Of course, all the cows will try to say it's ok. If Blair attracks MS then we must all stop.Phil_Ken_Sebben

Im sure if this was an Msoft game, the church would do the same thing.

Instead of divinding into SW factions, i reckon gamers should band together to protect games from bogus crap like this.

I'll stand up everytime someone blames something like the trench coat mafia and anything Jack Thompson says any day of the week but using a church in a FPS is tasteless and I agree it shouldn't be used.

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Supafly1

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#46 Supafly1
Member since 2003 • 4441 Posts
Is this a move by Tony Blair to get some backing and respect from the church?
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DXGreat1_HGL

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#47 DXGreat1_HGL
Member since 2003 • 7543 Posts
I'd love to see opinions in here if Sony or MS found a place they found sacred and crapped all over it...
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DireToad

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#48 DireToad
Member since 2006 • 3948 Posts
[QUOTE="Phil_Ken_Sebben"]

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]I'm laughing at people defending Sony here. It's ok for Sony to crap all overreligion now? Of course, all the cows will try to say it's ok. If Blair attracks MS then we must all stop.DXGreat1_HGL

Im sure if this was an Msoft game, the church would do the same thing.

Instead of divinding into SW factions, i reckon gamers should band together to protect games from bogus crap like this.

I'll stand up everytime someone blames something like the trench coat mafia and anything Jack Thompson says any day of the week but using a church in a FPS is tasteless and I agree it shouldn't be used.



It's obvious you already havesomething against Sony to start with.
I'm 100% certain if Nintendo or MS would have donesomething like that,you wouldn't say a word.


That or you'rea religiously over sensitive person.
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Phil_Ken_Sebben

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#49 Phil_Ken_Sebben
Member since 2007 • 344 Posts
[QUOTE="Phil_Ken_Sebben"]

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]I'm laughing at people defending Sony here. It's ok for Sony to crap all overreligion now? Of course, all the cows will try to say it's ok. If Blair attracks MS then we must all stop.DXGreat1_HGL

Im sure if this was an Msoft game, the church would do the same thing.

Instead of divinding into SW factions, i reckon gamers should band together to protect games from bogus crap like this.

I'll stand up everytime someone blames something like the trench coat mafia and anything Jack Thompson says any day of the week but using a church in a FPS is tasteless and I agree it shouldn't be used.

Ummm what about all the movies out there?

Hell there are some wicked action movies where Churches get decimated.

I could muster up plenty of games that have church shoot outs to.

In the Getaway im pretty sure you could visit the (a) church...

How is it tasteless?

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dhjohns

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#50 dhjohns
Member since 2003 • 5105 Posts
[QUOTE="Phil_Ken_Sebben"]

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]I'm laughing at people defending Sony here. It's ok for Sony to crap all overreligion now? Of course, all the cows will try to say it's ok. If Blair attracks MS then we must all stop.DXGreat1_HGL

Im sure if this was an Msoft game, the church would do the same thing.

Instead of divinding into SW factions, i reckon gamers should band together to protect games from bogus crap like this.

I'll stand up everytime someone blames something like the trench coat mafia and anything Jack Thompson says any day of the week but using a church in a FPS is tasteless and I agree it shouldn't be used.

DX this is your opinion. Now while I respect it, it does not mean that other people disagree. Where does this logic train lead us? Can GTA IV not use explosives because it is set in NY? Is the Vatican completely off limits to a video game? These are poor examples (it is still early here) but my point is where does it end? Apparently you believe churches should be a no-no. I don't agree and other people are probably split; however, who is to be the authority to say what is fair or not. To be honest I was shoting too many aliens to notice the details of the church. This is the church typicallly making a mountain out of a mole hill. Having said this, I will state again that I respect your opinion, but the real question is who canand should be the "moral compass" for videogames?