Tony Blair attacks Sony for use of Manchester Cathedral

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"][QUOTE="Phil_Ken_Sebben"]

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]I'm laughing at people defending Sony here. It's ok for Sony to crap all overreligion now? Of course, all the cows will try to say it's ok. If Blair attracks MS then we must all stop.DireToad

Instead of divinding into SW factions, i reckon gamers should band together to protect games from bogus crap like this.

I'll stand up everytime someone blames something like the trench coat mafia and anything Jack Thompson says any day of the week but using a church in a FPS is tasteless and I agree it shouldn't be used.

You should read my previous response. It seems Sony revels at finding things people view as sacred and bismirching them.

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"][QUOTE="Phil_Ken_Sebben"]

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]I'm laughing at people defending Sony here. It's ok for Sony to crap all overreligion now? Of course, all the cows will try to say it's ok. If Blair attracks MS then we must all stop.Phil_Ken_Sebben

Instead of divinding into SW factions, i reckon gamers should band together to protect games from bogus crap like this.

I'll stand up everytime someone blames something like the trench coat mafia and anything Jack Thompson says any day of the week but using a church in a FPS is tasteless and I agree it shouldn't be used.

Ummm what about all the movies out there?

Hell there are some wicked action movies where Churches get decimated.

I could muster up plenty of games that have church shoot outs to.

In the Getaway im pretty sure you could visit the (a) church...

How is it tasteless?

Because some people use it as a place of solitude and worship, even if it is corrupt. If you were a JW and someone based a game inside a Kingdom Hall, wouldn't you be offended?

[QUOTE="DireToad"][QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"][QUOTE="Phil_Ken_Sebben"]

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]I'm laughing at people defending Sony here. It's ok for Sony to crap all overreligion now? Of course, all the cows will try to say it's ok. If Blair attracks MS then we must all stop.DXGreat1_HGL

Instead of divinding into SW factions, i reckon gamers should band together to protect games from bogus crap like this.

I'll stand up everytime someone blames something like the trench coat mafia and anything Jack Thompson says any day of the week but using a church in a FPS is tasteless and I agree it shouldn't be used.

You should read my previous response. It seems Sony revels at finding things people view as sacred and bismirching them.

Your logic eh.

[QUOTE="Phil_Ken_Sebben"][QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"][QUOTE="Phil_Ken_Sebben"]

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]I'm laughing at people defending Sony here. It's ok for Sony to crap all overreligion now? Of course, all the cows will try to say it's ok. If Blair attracks MS then we must all stop.DXGreat1_HGL

Instead of divinding into SW factions, i reckon gamers should band together to protect games from bogus crap like this.

I'll stand up everytime someone blames something like the trench coat mafia and anything Jack Thompson says any day of the week but using a church in a FPS is tasteless and I agree it shouldn't be used.

Ummm what about all the movies out there?

Hell there are some wicked action movies where Churches get decimated.

I could muster up plenty of games that have church shoot outs to.

In the Getaway im pretty sure you could visit the (a) church...

How is it tasteless?

Because some people use it as a place of solitude and worship, even if it is corrupt. If you were a JW and someone based a game inside a Kingdom Hall, wouldn't you be offended?

And in Family Guy god has sex, swears, kills people ect.

Jesus in southpark or family guy anyone?

Even if its offensive to you there is no rule stopping it.

The church is making a deal out of nothing

A testiment to corruption

R-Dot-Yung

[QUOTE="R-Dot-Yung"]

The church is making a deal out of nothing

A testiment to corruption

kniveshurt18

Its not as if the church hasent been one of the most corrupted organisations in the history of the world anyways.

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"][QUOTE="Phil_Ken_Sebben"][QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"][QUOTE="Phil_Ken_Sebben"]

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]I'm laughing at people defending Sony here. It's ok for Sony to crap all overreligion now? Of course, all the cows will try to say it's ok. If Blair attracks MS then we must all stop.Phil_Ken_Sebben

Instead of divinding into SW factions, i reckon gamers should band together to protect games from bogus crap like this.

I'll stand up everytime someone blames something like the trench coat mafia and anything Jack Thompson says any day of the week but using a church in a FPS is tasteless and I agree it shouldn't be used.

Ummm what about all the movies out there?

Hell there are some wicked action movies where Churches get decimated.

I could muster up plenty of games that have church shoot outs to.

In the Getaway im pretty sure you could visit the (a) church...

How is it tasteless?

Because some people use it as a place of solitude and worship, even if it is corrupt. If you were a JW and someone based a game inside a Kingdom Hall, wouldn't you be offended?

And in Family Guy god has sex, swears, kills people ect.

Jesus in southpark or family guy anyone?

Even if its offensive to you there is no rule stopping it.

I find it interesting that attack any other christainity and catholics, its AOK, attack any other religion and its treated as a crime against humanity. So you find amusement when someone bismirches an entity you find sacred?

[QUOTE="Phil_Ken_Sebben"][QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"][QUOTE="Phil_Ken_Sebben"]

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]I'm laughing at people defending Sony here. It's ok for Sony to crap all overreligion now? Of course, all the cows will try to say it's ok. If Blair attracks MS then we must all stop.DXGreat1_HGL

Instead of divinding into SW factions, i reckon gamers should band together to protect games from bogus crap like this.

I'll stand up everytime someone blames something like the trench coat mafia and anything Jack Thompson says any day of the week but using a church in a FPS is tasteless and I agree it shouldn't be used.

Ummm what about all the movies out there?

Hell there are some wicked action movies where Churches get decimated.

I could muster up plenty of games that have church shoot outs to.

In the Getaway im pretty sure you could visit the (a) church...

How is it tasteless?

Because some people use it as a place of solitude and worship, even if it is corrupt. If you were a JW and someone based a game inside a Kingdom Hall, wouldn't you be offended?

Before we carry on, arguing theology is pointless at best. The only way to prove what side is right or wrong would be have everyone die and see where we end up...DXGreat1_HGL

Before we carry on, arguing theology is pointless at best. The only way to prove what side is right or wrong would be have everyone die and see where we end up...DXGreat1_HGL

blasphemey!

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"][QUOTE="Phil_Ken_Sebben"][QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"][QUOTE="Phil_Ken_Sebben"]

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]I'm laughing at people defending Sony here. It's ok for Sony to crap all overreligion now? Of course, all the cows will try to say it's ok. If Blair attracks MS then we must all stop.DireToad

Instead of divinding into SW factions, i reckon gamers should band together to protect games from bogus crap like this.

I'll stand up everytime someone blames something like the trench coat mafia and anything Jack Thompson says any day of the week but using a church in a FPS is tasteless and I agree it shouldn't be used.

Ummm what about all the movies out there?

Hell there are some wicked action movies where Churches get decimated.

I could muster up plenty of games that have church shoot outs to.

In the Getaway im pretty sure you could visit the (a) church...

How is it tasteless?

Because some people use it as a place of solitude and worship, even if it is corrupt. If you were a JW and someone based a game inside a Kingdom Hall, wouldn't you be offended?

this from the man who went to war with iraq, and now hes complaining about fantasy violence in a game, i wonder which has done more damage? should get his priorities straight really.tHeFuTuReHeAd

That is an awesome call!

Im sooo saving that on a readme file! :D

Before we carry on, arguing theology is pointless at best. The only way to prove what side is right or wrong would be have everyone die and see where we end up...DXGreat1_HGL

Slow down there. I truly hope this discussion has turned into which religion or ideology is correct. The point some of us are trying to make is why should the church be off limits. People have different ideas, values, and perceptions. You find having a battle at a church to be distasteful, others don't. Again the real question I hope we are getting at is who can and should be the "moral compass" for video games? Who can say what is off limits? In Call of Juarez (as someone stated) I am a preacher murdering everyone. GRAW 2 had Mexico upset. Where does this end? Let's just play games and have different opinions BUT respect other people's opinion. DX, just don't play RFOM if it is distasteful to you. Thanks.

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]Before we carry on, arguing theology is pointless at best. The only way to prove what side is right or wrong would be have everyone die and see where we end up...dhjohns

Slow down there. I truly hope this discussion has turned into which religion or ideology is correct. The point some of us are trying to make is why should the church be off limits. People have different ideas, values, and perceptions. You find having a battle at a church to be distasteful, others don't. Again the real question I hope we are getting at is who can and should be the "moral compass" for video games? Who can say what is off limits? In Call of Juarez (as someone stated) I am a preacher murdering everyone. GRAW 2 had Mexico upset. Where does this end? Let's just play games and have different opinions BUT respect other people's opinion. DX, just don't play RFOM if it is distasteful to you. Thanks.

See, some people in here can make a logical and coherent argument, Good show...

Religion has killed more people than any video game could ever have (virtually). They find it distatefull to see violence in churches yet the very foundation of their religion was born from violence. I just find it funny how they can get morally offended by apiece of fiction yet their own history ismore violent than any video game I've ever played.

When I see crap like this where the church is basically doing a shakedown for $$, I'm reminded of the preists asking for donations everyday and chastising those who do not "give" enough. They wonder why people hate church these days, it's crap like this.

Religion has killed more people than any video game could ever have (virtually). They find it distatefull to see violence in churches yet the very foundation of their religion was born from violence. I just find it funny how they can get morally offended by apiece of fiction yet their own history ismore violent than any video game I've ever played.

When I see crap like this where the church is basically doing a shakedown for $$, I'm reminded of the preists asking for donations everyday and chastising those who do not "give" enough. They wonder why people hate church these days, it's crap like this.

darthogre

I can argue and say it's not the church, it's the people inside. There have been a lot of hypocrites that use the name of Jesus Christ for their own agenda, It's not either the churches or JC's fault....

Religion has killed more people than any video game could ever have (virtually). They find it distatefull to see violence in churches yet the very foundation of their religion was born from violence. I just find it funny how they can get morally offended by apiece of fiction yet their own history ismore violent than any video game I've ever played.

When I see crap like this where the church is basically doing a shakedown for $$, I'm reminded of the preists asking for donations everyday and chastising those who do not "give" enough. They wonder why people hate church these days, it's crap like this.

darthogre

Though thats not denying there are decent churches out there.

The Local Church and St Vincents do some wicked charity work.

I dontate to christmas appeals, through the church - even though im an Atheiest - once Catholic. They dont mind.

Hell same goes for the Salvation Army!

And then you get the Aristocratic douche bags.:evil:

[QUOTE="darthogre"]

Religion has killed more people than any video game could ever have (virtually). They find it distatefull to see violence in churches yet the very foundation of their religion was born from violence. I just find it funny how they can get morally offended by apiece of fiction yet their own history ismore violent than any video game I've ever played.

When I see crap like this where the church is basically doing a shakedown for $$, I'm reminded of the preists asking for donations everyday and chastising those who do not "give" enough. They wonder why people hate church these days, it's crap like this.

DXGreat1_HGL

I can argue and say it's not the church, it's the people inside. There have been a lot of hypocrites that use the name of Jesus Christ for their own agenda, It's not either the churches or JC's fault....

I'm not going to get into a debate on whether or not it's been the chruch in the past or the "people inside" that promote violence BUT I think it's amazing what people can justify by intrepreting the Bible in so many different ways...don't you think.

In C&C 3 I blew up the Big Ben. So why aint they going after EA?

To be honest I think they just need to hush up. Its a war "fictional" game with the good guys trying to stop the monsters from killing off humainty.

Im not a fan of Sony to be honest , but I would back them up 100% percent if they went to talk to Tony and the church and just flat out say

"No"

Then leave.

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"][QUOTE="darthogre"]

Religion has killed more people than any video game could ever have (virtually). They find it distatefull to see violence in churches yet the very foundation of their religion was born from violence. I just find it funny how they can get morally offended by apiece of fiction yet their own history ismore violent than any video game I've ever played.

When I see crap like this where the church is basically doing a shakedown for $$, I'm reminded of the preists asking for donations everyday and chastising those who do not "give" enough. They wonder why people hate church these days, it's crap like this.

darthogre

I can argue and say it's not the church, it's the people inside. There have been a lot of hypocrites that use the name of Jesus Christ for their own agenda, It's not either the churches or JC's fault....

I'm not going to get into a debate on whether or not it's been the chruch in the past or the "people inside" that promote violence BUT I think it's amazing what people can justify by intrepreting the Bible in so many different ways...don't you think.

Yes I agree with you there...

[QUOTE="JiveT"]LOL the calls for video game bans aren't serious in the USA. They are serious in Germany because all kinds of games get banned or seriously toned down there. Besides America has a Bill of Rights and you people in the UK are "subjects" with no such guarantees. As for this Manchester thing it seems Sony has taken sides with Old Scratch and they are finding he's not the best of partners.Shazenab

USA=Jack Thompson. Plus you forget that the development studio that develops GTA and Manhunt dwell here in the UK.

Jack Thompson is about to get disbarred as well for some of his actions the past few years. When zealots can not conform to reason and call everyone liars and cheaters when they themselves are breaking the rules thats what happens.

It doesnt matter how just your cause is. If you do it the wrong and immoral way you are not helping your cause.

I'm sorry but this is a video game forum. Not a 'bash my religion' thread. Please. GTFO with your religious talk and who's good or evil bs. This thread should be locked and people banned for their idiocy. I'm here to talk about games. Not this crap.hotdaisy18

Then why post in this thread? Wouldn't just ignoring it be easier?

I'm sorry but this is a video game forum. Not a 'bash my religion' thread. Please. GTFO with your religious talk and who's good or evil bs. This thread should be locked and people banned for their idiocy. I'm here to talk about games. Not this crap.hotdaisy18

I'm sorry but this is a video game forum. Not a 'bash my religion' thread. Please. GTFO with your religious talk and who's good or evil bs. This thread should be locked and people banned for their idiocy. I'm here to talk about games. Not this crap.hotdaisy18

Let's not be so quick to judge Hotdaisy. True this topic did get derailed for a sec. (nothing new on SW) but I feel the people here did a great job of correcting the post and keeping it fairly on point. The discussion includes a church so some religion will have to be talked about. I think for such a touchy subject and this being SW (where lunacy reigns supreme) this topic was handled fairly well. BTW, what in your post was about games? Nothing. Your post wasn't constructive either. Thanks

[QUOTE="Shazenab"]

[QUOTE="JiveT"]LOL the calls for video game bans aren't serious in the USA. They are serious in Germany because all kinds of games get banned or seriously toned down there. Besides America has a Bill of Rights and you people in the UK are "subjects" with no such guarantees. As for this Manchester thing it seems Sony has taken sides with Old Scratch and they are finding he's not the best of partners.GabeBlack

USA=Jack Thompson. Plus you forget that the development studio that develops GTA and Manhunt dwell here in the UK.

Jack Thompson is about to get disbarred as well for some of his actions the past few years. When zealots can not conform to reason and call everyone liars and cheaters when they themselves are breaking the rules thats what happens.

It doesnt matter how just your cause is. If you do it the wrong and immoral way you are not helping your cause.

cough, cough Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton cough, cough

[QUOTE="hotdaisy18"]I'm sorry but this is a video game forum. Not a 'bash my religion' thread. Please. GTFO with your religious talk and who's good or evil bs. This thread should be locked and people banned for their idiocy. I'm here to talk about games. Not this crap.DXGreat1_HGL

Then why post in this thread? Wouldn't just ignoring it be easier?

[QUOTE="hotdaisy18"]I'm sorry but this is a video game forum. Not a 'bash my religion' thread. Please. GTFO with your religious talk and who's good or evil bs. This thread should be locked and people banned for their idiocy. I'm here to talk about games. Not this crap.DXGreat1_HGL

Then why post in this thread? Wouldn't just ignoring it be easier?

Because I support this thread that I enjoy coming to to discuss games. Do you understand? G A M E S. So I have every right to voice my opinion about what I do not like that is posted on these forums. Surely I am not the only one who thinks this.

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]

[QUOTE="hotdaisy18"]I'm sorry but this is a video game forum. Not a 'bash my religion' thread. Please. GTFO with your religious talk and who's good or evil bs. This thread should be locked and people banned for their idiocy. I'm here to talk about games. Not this crap.hotdaisy18

Then why post in this thread? Wouldn't just ignoring it be easier?

Because I support this thread that I enjoy coming to to discuss games. Do you understand? G A M E S. So I have every right to voice my opinion about what I do not like that is posted on these forums. Surely I am not the only one who thinks this.

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]

[QUOTE="hotdaisy18"]I'm sorry but this is a video game forum. Not a 'bash my religion' thread. Please. GTFO with your religious talk and who's good or evil bs. This thread should be locked and people banned for their idiocy. I'm here to talk about games. Not this crap.hotdaisy18

Then why post in this thread? Wouldn't just ignoring it be easier?

Because I support this thread that I enjoy coming to to discuss games. Do you understand? G A M E S. So I have every right to voice my opinion about what I do not like that is posted on these forums. Surely I am not the only one who thinks this.

As a student of Socrates, I agree. I don't want to hear about religious stuff on a gaming forum.

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]

[QUOTE="hotdaisy18"]I'm sorry but this is a video game forum. Not a 'bash my religion' thread. Please. GTFO with your religious talk and who's good or evil bs. This thread should be locked and people banned for their idiocy. I'm here to talk about games. Not this crap.hotdaisy18

Then why post in this thread? Wouldn't just ignoring it be easier?

Because I support this thread that I enjoy coming to to discuss games. Do you understand? G A M E S. So I have every right to voice my opinion about what I do not like that is posted on these forums. Surely I am not the only one who thinks this.

You're serious? People just come into SW to discuss games and hear I thoughtSW was a game of oneupsmanship using as little logic as possible....

Actually it isnt required for public buildings.

Phil_Ken_Sebben

Churches aren't public buildings.

Discussion of politics and religion does not belong on this board, its a gaming forum.

In response to some of the issues raised here though and relating to the game I'd like to toss in my 2 cents.

Firstly, any film you see an actual church in (specifically the interior) has had permission to film in their. The DaVinci code for example was forced to use an alternate location when Westminister Abbey refused permission to film there because they felt the material was inappropriate. If Sony was using an accurate depiction of the interior they should have got permission, even if they were not obliged to do so.

Secondly, the ACTUAL use of images is very different from the general use of an anonymous individual or building. So a non descript church or priest would be entirely different from using say a specific church, in this case Manchester cathedral, or an individual, say Pope Benedict. There is a distinct difference between the 2, although one could still argue the neccessity and taste in using either.

They really should have asked permission or obscured the location just like they do in movies. Disrespect and ignorance is what caused this.tomarlyn

According to Sony, they did get permission.

"On Monday we sent a letter to Sony outlining our concerns and making some key demands"

Hmm I wonder what those would be?

"He once again called on Sony to withdraw the game, to apologise unreservedly for using the interior without permission and to make a substantial donation to the Church's education department which helps tackle gun violence. The cathedral is consulting lawyers over what to do next."

Ohh but of course! Donations? :lol: But of course as well :lol:

StealthSting

Here's my opinion on the whole matter:

The church has known about this for a while, and only now decided that they want some money.

I mean, how would they know about this game? I mean, I doubt the church officials play videogames or read magazines. It's not like they're Googling Manchester Cathedral to see if there's any mention of it (that one episode of Family Guy comes to mind with that... person who's name I forget).

This will have all blown over within a week and a month from now we'll forget about it completely.

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]They really should have asked permission or obscured the location just like they do in movies. Disrespect and ignorance is what caused this.topcatyo

[QUOTE="Phil_Ken_Sebben"]

Actually it isnt required for public buildings.

GalvyX99

Churches aren't public buildings.

[QUOTE="topcatyo"]

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]They really should have asked permission or obscured the location just like they do in movies. Disrespect and ignorance is what caused this.ragrdoll21

I actually don't know anything about law. I need to start asking my friend, who's going to college for pre-law in 3 months. It should help him practice.

Anyway, back on-topic, if you don't need permission to use the building, the church has no way of winning.

[QUOTE="ragrdoll21"][QUOTE="topcatyo"]

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]They really should have asked permission or obscured the location just like they do in movies. Disrespect and ignorance is what caused this.topcatyo

I actually don't know anything about law. I need to start asking my friend, who's going to college for pre-law in 3 months. It should help him practice.

Anyway, back on-topic, if you don't need permission to use the building, the church has no way of winning.