Too Human developer Dennis Dyack, "Gamers don't like 100 hour games"

20 hour nowadays is whats considered 'nice.' Its a shame really considering how much longer they were back in the day, but thats because games are a lot more complex and deep now as a result of evolution. Pong has infinite value, GeOW doesnt. But then again, Sheep will say its 'teh graphicz:cry:'

Yeah innovation comes through greater creative freedom as a result of greater hardware to do so... 

Oemenia

He's right, not many gamers anymore like 100+ hour games, seems nowadays that 20-60 hours is a sweet spot.Zenkuso

Psh. The more content, the better. Paying 50-70 bucks for a game that lasts you a weekend is a joke. Just rent it. Even if you can complete the main story/quest in less time, every game should take 40+ hours to finish, imo.

[QUOTE="Oemenia"]

20 hour nowadays is whats considered 'nice.' Its a shame really considering how much longer they were back in the day, but thats because games are a lot more complex and deep now as a result of evolution. Pong has infinite value, GeOW doesnt. But then again, Sheep will say its 'teh graphicz:cry:'

Yeah innovation comes through greater creative freedom as a result of greater hardware to do so...

drsports1980

Too Human is an online multiplayer RPG. Do a little research before you spout things off. Players can play through the entire main story experience, or just missions in the game, with friends, who can jump in and out at any point - just like Gears of War.

[QUOTE="MR_SMI13Y"]

[QUOTE="link-a-link"]he seems to be forgeting about Oblivion I've put more then 200 hours into that game and never got old.......link-a-link

Not for everyone. TO me after 3 hours I felt that I wasnt progressing and there was just too many things to do.

cant argue with that, It go so overwhelmengly huge at the start of the game, but it kinda faded as I progressed

Sheep are here to the rescue and tell you your game sucks, even one that scores 9.6 because they have Wii sports. 

[QUOTE="drsports1980"][QUOTE="Oemenia"]

20 hour nowadays is whats considered 'nice.' Its a shame really considering how much longer they were back in the day, but thats because games are a lot more complex and deep now as a result of evolution. Pong has infinite value, GeOW doesnt. But then again, Sheep will say its 'teh graphicz:cry:'

Yeah innovation comes through greater creative freedom as a result of greater hardware to do so...

subrosian

Too Human is an online multiplayer RPG. Do a little research before you spout things off. Players can play through the entire main story experience, or just missions in the game, with friends, who can jump in and out at any point - just like Gears of War.

 I already knew this too.

[QUOTE="MikeE21286"]

[QUOTE="link-a-link"]he seems to be forgeting about Oblivion I've put more then 200 hours into that game and never got old.......Zenkuso

Yeah, that's a good reason why Oblivion gets such high ratings....because of the greatness of it, expanded over the amount of time you can play it. I mean it's extremely hard to even be able to make a game that is 100+ hours and can be as good as Oblivion is over the whole 100 hours.

Yeah but the growing gap nowadays between casual gamers and hardcore gamers is just amazing, most casuals can't sit around playing oblivion like the majority of us hardcore gamers can, they just go nuts.

I don't mean to sound rude, but really, Oblivion was design explicitly for casuals. It's design was simply because casuals couldn't grasp basic concepts (which were clearly stated in the instruction manual), so they removed depth and challenge so casuals could have fun for 200 hours (while anyone who likes RPGs got bored after 10).

Back on topic...I generally think Dyack is wrong. The reason you don't see gamers finishing such long games is because stories/game design haven't caught up with what games could be. A shooter can only last so long because the mechanics are fairly simple in most games- I don't want a 100 hour FPS. Do something unique with the situation, then I'm interested. And I don't need to say much for game stories; they speak for themselves.

However, original gamers (those that grew up with NES/SNES/Genesis) are probably starting families and whatnot, and therefore will have less time to play. So I would say that there's a growing market for smaller games, but the idea that even these gamers (along with younger ones, who have the time to play a lot) aren't going to want SOME epic games is ridiculous.

[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="drsports1980"][QUOTE="Oemenia"]

20 hour nowadays is whats considered 'nice.' Its a shame really considering how much longer they were back in the day, but thats because games are a lot more complex and deep now as a result of evolution. Pong has infinite value, GeOW doesnt. But then again, Sheep will say its 'teh graphicz:cry:'

Yeah innovation comes through greater creative freedom as a result of greater hardware to do so...

drsports1980

Too Human is an online multiplayer RPG. Do a little research before you spout things off. Players can play through the entire main story experience, or just missions in the game, with friends, who can jump in and out at any point - just like Gears of War.

I already knew this too.

[QUOTE="drsports1980"][QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="drsports1980"][QUOTE="Oemenia"]

20 hour nowadays is whats considered 'nice.' Its a shame really considering how much longer they were back in the day, but thats because games are a lot more complex and deep now as a result of evolution. Pong has infinite value, GeOW doesnt. But then again, Sheep will say its 'teh graphicz:cry:'

Yeah innovation comes through greater creative freedom as a result of greater hardware to do so...

subrosian

Too Human is an online multiplayer RPG. Do a little research before you spout things off. Players can play through the entire main story experience, or just missions in the game, with friends, who can jump in and out at any point - just like Gears of War.

I already knew this too.

[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="drsports1980"][QUOTE="Oemenia"]

20 hour nowadays is whats considered 'nice.' Its a shame really considering how much longer they were back in the day, but thats because games are a lot more complex and deep now as a result of evolution. Pong has infinite value, GeOW doesnt. But then again, Sheep will say its 'teh graphicz:cry:'

Yeah innovation comes through greater creative freedom as a result of greater hardware to do so...

drsports1980

Too Human is an online multiplayer RPG. Do a little research before you spout things off. Players can play through the entire main story experience, or just missions in the game, with friends, who can jump in and out at any point - just like Gears of War.

I already knew this too.

[QUOTE="drsports1980"][QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="drsports1980"][QUOTE="Oemenia"]

20 hour nowadays is whats considered 'nice.' Its a shame really considering how much longer they were back in the day, but thats because games are a lot more complex and deep now as a result of evolution. Pong has infinite value, GeOW doesnt. But then again, Sheep will say its 'teh graphicz:cry:'

Yeah innovation comes through greater creative freedom as a result of greater hardware to do so...

subrosian

Too Human is an online multiplayer RPG. Do a little research before you spout things off. Players can play through the entire main story experience, or just missions in the game, with friends, who can jump in and out at any point - just like Gears of War.

I already knew this too.

[QUOTE="drsports1980"][QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="drsports1980"][QUOTE="Oemenia"]

20 hour nowadays is whats considered 'nice.' Its a shame really considering how much longer they were back in the day, but thats because games are a lot more complex and deep now as a result of evolution. Pong has infinite value, GeOW doesnt. But then again, Sheep will say its 'teh graphicz:cry:'

Yeah innovation comes through greater creative freedom as a result of greater hardware to do so...

subrosian

Too Human is an online multiplayer RPG. Do a little research before you spout things off. Players can play through the entire main story experience, or just missions in the game, with friends, who can jump in and out at any point - just like Gears of War.

I already knew this too.

Crackdowns co-op does increase its replayability but there are so many things that you can do with a mate that you couldn't do yourself. 

[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="drsports1980"][QUOTE="Oemenia"]

20 hour nowadays is whats considered 'nice.' Its a shame really considering how much longer they were back in the day, but thats because games are a lot more complex and deep now as a result of evolution. Pong has infinite value, GeOW doesnt. But then again, Sheep will say its 'teh graphicz:cry:'

Yeah innovation comes through greater creative freedom as a result of greater hardware to do so...

drsports1980

Too Human is an online multiplayer RPG. Do a little research before you spout things off. Players can play through the entire main story experience, or just missions in the game, with friends, who can jump in and out at any point - just like Gears of War.

I already knew this too.

I'm not a child. I don't get games for free. I purchase my own games. I expect, and value, as much content as my dollar can buy. I am insulted, offended, and disgusted by the fact that a developer might think that I do "not like 100 hour games."

On the contrary, I love one-hundred hour games. Such games are, quite literally, the best buy I have for my scarce source of income. A game of that size show cases, most of the time, a certain level of commitment and concern for the customer. I don't want a game divided into 4 20-40 hour chunks; it's less game for my dollars.

I'm not a child. Developers don't need to "divide up a game into managable chunks." I am more than willing, and actually perfer, if you slap a proverbial table full of jaw-dropping gameplay infront of me and allow me to divide the game up as I see fit.

FoamingPanda

Amen-at $60+ a new game-I WELCOME LOOOONG games to get my money's worth-Gears of War left me feeling EXTREMELY ripped off... 

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

I'm not a child. I don't get games for free. I purchase my own games. I expect, and value, as much content as my dollar can buy. I am insulted, offended, and disgusted by the fact that a developer might think that I do "not like 100 hour games."

On the contrary, I love one-hundred hour games. Such games are, quite literally, the best buy I have for my scarce source of income. A game of that size show cases, most of the time, a certain level of commitment and concern for the customer. I don't want a game divided into 4 20-40 hour chunks; it's less game for my dollars.

I'm not a child. Developers don't need to "divide up a game into managable chunks." I am more than willing, and actually perfer, if you slap a proverbial table full of jaw-dropping gameplay infront of me and allow me to divide the game up as I see fit.

Cronaroth

Amen-at $60+ a new game-I WELCOME LOOOONG games to get my money's worth-Gears of War left me feeling EXTREMELY ripped off...

When I was a kid, games were the equivelant of $60 today *or more* and were routinely under four hours in length. The era of the epic game was the PS1 - with games like FF7 and FF8 which were loaded with content. It's the HD gaming era, where we're resetting the playing field - and just like in the PS1 era, not every game should be an epic RPG, and just like in the SNES / Genesis era, we have development costs limiting how long a game can be.

I haven't even played my copy of Gears of War and I feel like it was $40 well spent, I know when I get my 360 I'm going to enjoy it. The only time I feel ripped off by is when a game is just *bad* - then I don't care how long it is, because I'm not going to be playing it.

That guy seriously needs to STFU.

Each time i hear something from him, i become less intrested in Too Human.~_~

Personally i like games that are short but have lots of replay value, such as viewtiful joe, counter-strike, meteos, EBA, ect...

I have enjoyed some longer games like Diablo 1, Bauldur's Gate, and Grandia 2, but since i dont have much free time anymore its harder to stay interested in such long games. Even if I have all day I struggle to play them for more than a few hours unless I am really into the game, last time that happened was with Resident Evil 4.

Personally i like games that are short but have lots of replay value, such as viewtiful joe, counter-strike, metoes, EBA, ect...

In other words
we're gonna charge you full price for a 1/3 of the game
Rhubarb9

[QUOTE="link-a-link"]he seems to be forgeting about Oblivion I've put more then 200 hours into that game and never got old.......MR_SMI13Y

Not for everyone. TO me after 3 hours I felt that I wasnt progressing and there was just too many things to do. 

Huh, what now?

I spent over 110 hours on Nocturne my first play through loving every minute of it, and that's a game with seven endings. And in my book it was the best console rpg experience last gen.

Sounds to me like someone is trying to cover their ass for a short game, like their horrible E3 showing they blamed on building the game for everyone including grandma.

The sad thing about this is the story, script and theoretical game-play mechanics have been in development for over a decade. and yet excuses are the only thing they can turn out.

Bite the bullet and take it like a man. just admit that this whole Too Human Epic  has been a plot to get publishers money without actually making games.

15 hours long is my sweat spot. You do more then this you better have a good game (very rare). Or else I will stop playing it. Just like I did with Oblivion. TOooo Lonnnnggg!

8 hours min and 15 hours max for me.

If you go shorter then 8 hours you better have replayability or else... I'm not buying your game.

He's only speaking for himself. Games like GTA, Final Fantasy or Oblivion all prove that 100+ hour games are still very much alive and, if sales are anything to prove, quite popular. As for him pulling out of playing World of Warcraft, that's where he contradicts himself. If he felt he had to force himself to stop, then clearly he could have kept going for thousands of hours. That's the contradiction there.

[QUOTE="Rhubarb9"]In other words
we're gonna charge you full price for a 1/3 of the game
smokeydabear076

Just like any other game out there that releases expansion packs and episodes right...?

Don't give up your day job.

He's only speaking for himself. Games like GTA, Final Fantasy or Oblivion all prove that 100+ hour games are still very much alive and, if sales are anything to prove, quite popular. As for him pulling out of playing World of Warcraft, that's where he contradicts himself. If he felt he had to force himself to stop, then clearly he could have kept going for thousands of hours. That's the contradiction there.

-Spock-

Everyone complains about the end of Halo 2, more than the end of any other game. If they had finished more games, they'd probably complain about those endings. But that game is really well paced - everyone gets to the end.Todd Howard

hey link-a-link i like your avatar

In today's market, I know you might not like to hear this, but today's mass consumers do want want to play a game for 100 hours. That would be insane. People might be able to get through 20 hours, but anything over that might not sell enough copies for it to be profitable.

People want it to be entertaining but they do not want to devote their rntire life to 1 game!

I think Dyack is a great developer and Silicon Knights is as well. They know it too but they've yet to have that one big game that brings them into the top teir. They're to focused on trying to make this game epic that it may backfire.

They should have just made Eternal Darkness 2. 

http://www.steampowered.com/status/ep1/ Ripped from ShackNews, but.. this is a good indicator of where the industry gets the idea from. Half-Life Ep1 is generally considered to be good, but too short. The average time it took all gamers to beat the game was 5 hours, 40 minutes. And out of 6 million people, ONE-THIRD of us actually beat the game. Wtf. So only 38% of us can even manage to beat a 6-hour game once.Makari

I think this is a good point.

We are hardcore gamers, and we'll dedicate however much time to a game that it takes to beat it, because otherwise, we wouldn't be as hardcore. But most gamers aren't like us. They take a game, play it for a few hours, and are basically done with it.

GTA sells really well, but how many people do you think have beaten the game? How many people do you think have completed 100% of the content? It's probably less than many of you think. The above numbers reflect that reality.

If less than half of the people who get a 6 hour game beat it, then chances are, much of the time spent to create a 100+ hour game is wasted on many gamers. I'd rather have a more polished 20-30 hour experience than a padded or boring 100 hour experience.  

i like rpgs long but i dont like shooters or action games long

like 20 or 30 hours tops