Too late to solve the RROD problem?

While I just posted a rant about why the whole RROD is not a good thing, for those of you that are adamantly stating that your consoles are just fine and will staty that way, all 2 people I know that have a 360 have not had any problems. This isn't that surprising since 30% is still less than 50% so I'm sure there are a lot of contented 360 owners out there. Unfortunately, with 20 million or whatever the number of 360s sold is, 30% is still 6 million screwed customers (as opposed to 14 million happy customers). Selling 6 million defective units, to your most loyal fans (people that bought it on launch) is a bad business move.

None the less, the majority of 360 gamers out there are still probably quite content with their purchase, so I'm not surprised that so many fanboys are ranting that it is all just a conspiracy and not that big a deal. Heck, I sometimes feel like doing that concerning my ps2, which is the big blocky launch version and hasn't given me any trouble. But then I remember the fact I went to gamestop for years and was warned time and again that my ps2 was going to die. Granted I ignored all the warnings (played games, watched DVD's, I still take it to motels when I'm working away from home for a week or two) but the fact that I was pestered so much about it makes me accept that the console had its issues. I just got lucky. There are some 360 users here that should consider the same.

RROD aint going nowhere.

Even after the Falcon model and 65nm gpu Microsoft has reduced XBOX defectiveness to 7%.

That's a substencial improvement comparing to the previous 33% yet still very high comparing to Sony's barely 2%.

[QUOTE="planbfreak4eva"]33 percent is a chance that 360s rrods...overhyped you say?
st1ka

link?

Look at my first post (page 5 if you have 10 posts per page) and click the first link. A microsoft employee places the failure rate at about 30%.

[QUOTE="st1ka"]

[QUOTE="planbfreak4eva"]33 percent is a chance that 360s rrods...overhyped you say?
Insane00

link?

Look at my first post (page 5 if you have 10 posts per page) and click the first link. A microsoft employee places the failure rate at about 30%.

nice find, thanks

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

Even if the RROD problem is finally fixed (or soon to be fixed), does it even matter at this point? I mean, knowledge of this problem is so widespread, with such bad accompanying PR, can a fix improve the 360's fortunes? After all, perception is reality, and if the perception of the 360 is that of a faulty piece of machinery, does fixing the issue once and for all even matter at this point, or is it already too late for this gen?

HuusAsking

Your personal experience doesn't work because there is a chance that 360 will red ring. What you are saying is that it won't and has no chance, when there is actually a quite large chance that it will. And the 3 red rings aren't the only problem. I don't know about others, but my 360 scratches my discs and constantly claims that the disc is dirty, even when I'm playing a downloaded arcade game. HOW THE **** is a downloaded games disc dirty?

Anyway, you're personal experience would be misleading to newer potential buyers, which is why you don't go by your experience but by the many people who have had their 360's red ring.

channtheman1

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=119888

http://www.ripten.com/2007/07/03/failure-rate-xbox-360-high-as-33-sony-ps3-less-than-1/

http://www.fastsilicon.com/latest-news/microsoft-admits-all-xbox360s-are-defective.html

I think it's too late for those people that easily fall for scare tactics and such. It's just sad that there's really people like these that reads a horror story and after a fix arrives they're still afraid. I mean imagine if you didn't buy a PS2 just because of the DRE problems, you would've missed a whole lotta. Same goes with the Xbox 360, the leader of this video gaming gen.

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=119888

http://www.ripten.com/2007/07/03/failure-rate-xbox-360-high-as-33-sony-ps3-less-than-1/

http://www.fastsilicon.com/latest-news/microsoft-admits-all-xbox360s-are-defective.html

planbfreak4eva

2. none of these articles say the 360 is maxed out, show me one dev (that is actually working on the 360) sayaing the 360 is maxed out. and no more "MAYBE" links please.

Yes but the key difference is that there are loads of people in these forums with similar personal experiences, and to be honest with you...your personal experience is a rarity around here. So while your personal experience might seem common to you, everyone else is looking around at all of these problems and seeing your situation as being in the strong minority. Whether or not you think these people have nothing better to do than make up fake stories is up to you to decide, but if you are trying to tell me that I am somehow lieing and that my 360 actually works right now than i would love to supply you with some pictures.

All i'm saying is that my 360 effed up 3 times now..and they want $100 from me to fix it. Whether or not this happens to you isn't going to alter my situation at all...but around here A LOT of people are having hardware problems. I believe MS themselves has admitted to at least 30%, which they've also said is unacceptable, thus the warrenty change. It's nice that you haven't had any problems...but if you look around you'll see that the problems are clearly out there, and they are pissing people off. I'm not one of those ps3 fans that are claiming to have massive RROD issues..you can check my post history and clearly see that I have defended the 360 blindly for years. But in all honesty no console/system is worth this amount of frustration...especially when there is a direct competitor on the market.

kingsfan_0333

Y'know its funny you saying I'm in the minority.I think its true that the MAJORITY of 360 owners havent actually had the RROD.Its you who is in the minority.

Just thought I'd put that out there guys.Judging from these forum pages you would think that just about everyone with a 360 has had the 3 Red Rings. :roll:

sry but microsoft has some of the BEST PR in the gaming industry, if they we're to fix it completely then solving the RROD wouldn't be too late.

It took sony till the slimline ps2 to fix DRE and even then they didn't fix it completely.

[QUOTE="dabear"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

Even if the RROD problem is finally fixed (or soon to be fixed), does it even matter at this point? I mean, knowledge of this problem is so widespread, with such bad accompanying PR, can a fix improve the 360's fortunes? After all, perception is reality, and if the perception of the 360 is that of a faulty piece of machinery, does fixing the issue once and for all even matter at this point, or is it already too late for this gen?

kingsfan_0333

Ya but which of those were fully covered under warrenty, and which of those did you completly rebuy?

[QUOTE="kingsfan_0333"]

Yes but the key difference is that there are loads of people in these forums with similar personal experiences, and to be honest with you...your personal experience is a rarity around here. So while your personal experience might seem common to you, everyone else is looking around at all of these problems and seeing your situation as being in the strong minority. Whether or not you think these people have nothing better to do than make up fake stories is up to you to decide, but if you are trying to tell me that I am somehow lieing and that my 360 actually works right now than i would love to supply you with some pictures.

All i'm saying is that my 360 effed up 3 times now..and they want $100 from me to fix it. Whether or not this happens to you isn't going to alter my situation at all...but around here A LOT of people are having hardware problems. I believe MS themselves has admitted to at least 30%, which they've also said is unacceptable, thus the warrenty change. It's nice that you haven't had any problems...but if you look around you'll see that the problems are clearly out there, and they are pissing people off. I'm not one of those ps3 fans that are claiming to have massive RROD issues..you can check my post history and clearly see that I have defended the 360 blindly for years. But in all honesty no console/system is worth this amount of frustration...especially when there is a direct competitor on the market.

GabeNewellsPie

Y'know its funny you saying I'm in the minority.I think its true that the MAJORITY of 360 owners havent actually had the RROD.Its you who is in the minority.

Just thought I'd put that out there guys.Judging from these forum pages you would think that just about everyone with a 360 has had the 3 Red Rings. :roll:

Hey smart guy, I wasn't say that you were the minority in terms of the world population, I was saying that you are the minority in these forums...which from what I've seen is absolutly true.

[QUOTE="kingsfan_0333"][QUOTE="dabear"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

Even if the RROD problem is finally fixed (or soon to be fixed), does it even matter at this point? I mean, knowledge of this problem is so widespread, with such bad accompanying PR, can a fix improve the 360's fortunes? After all, perception is reality, and if the perception of the 360 is that of a faulty piece of machinery, does fixing the issue once and for all even matter at this point, or is it already too late for this gen?

dabear

Ya but which of those were fully covered under warrenty, and which of those did you completly rebuy?

Than that's my point. Maybe it didn't stop you from buying them...but to the average person, spending well over a thousand dollars on consoles alone is out of the question and completly rediculous.

Even if the RROD problem is finally fixed (or soon to be fixed), does it even matter at this point? I mean, knowledge of this problem is so widespread, with such bad accompanying PR, can a fix improve the 360's fortunes? After all, perception is reality, and if the perception of the 360 is that of a faulty piece of machinery, does fixing the issue once and for all even matter at this point, or is it already too late for this gen?

dsmccracken

ha ha... no offence but it sounds so badly that your reaching for a reason to put a bad spin on MS fixing its only major problem... RRoD being eraticated is good news in every sence, sorry to hurt your feelings.

I think it's too late for those people that easily fall for scare tactics and such. It's just sad that there's really people like these that reads a horror story and after a fix arrives they're still afraid. I mean imagine if you didn't buy a PS2 just because of the DRE problems, you would've missed a whole lotta. Same goes with the Xbox 360, the leader of this video gaming gen.

ReverseCycology

I disagree...I think people deserve to be informed. It's an expensive purchase, and anyone who doesn't look into the defects problems this console has had is just asking for trouble. I heard there was a fix after my first 360 got the RROD, and than the second one got it...so maybe it's not that people are "scared"..maybe its that they are smart. 3 years after buying my console i've sent it in twice and now they want $100 from me...and there are other people with similar experiences. Why should someone blindly buy a 360 and ignore that problems such as these are out there and relatively common...seeing is how multiple people in this thread alone have had problems.

Like I've said, I've defended the 360 through thick and thin...but it's not worth it anymore when they want more money from me and the ps3 seems to have almost no problems.

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

Rushed to market...yes. But that isn't the same thing as knew in-advance.

As for console launches....poppycock :)

PS2 launched Mar 4, 2000

PS3 Europe launch Mar 31st 2007.

Obviously Christmas is a key season, but you don't waste billions on warranty and take a big hit on your brand for the sake of a quarter or two.

Insane00

Go read this.

It says that microsoft knowingly was cheap about building the console and rather than check to see if the failing units wre due to a system wide defect, just tossed the faulty test units and shipped the console anyway. The interviewer specifically says that the system was rushed to market for the holiday season.

Random web page with an anonymous source. Nice. More important, is the highlighted part. Pls compare to my previous post. I don't think there is any doubt that they wanted to meet the holiday season and were rushing, failed to do the appropriate testing etc. The discussion is not whether they rushed. The discussion is whether they knew they had a design flaw and deliberately decided to sell a broken product that they knew would fail. Pls stay on topic.

There is also this; which says the launch of the PS2 in the US, Europe and Australia was in October and November 2000. And while you are right about the European PS3 launch, if you look at the way console manufacturers and game publishers have treated Europe, it has unfortunately been with the general idea that their money doesn't matter as much as the US and Japan. They get games and consoles late, they pay more, and they often get fewer options. Besides, it had a holiday release in the US and Japan in 2006.

Selective data. Of course they'd rather launch for Christmas, who wouldn't? Nevertheless, the world ain't perfect and you can't always have what you want. Just like you cannot ignore that the PS2 did in fact launch in March 2000. And the PS3 did in fact launch in Europe in Mar 2007. Just like thousands of electronic products do in fact launch at other times of the year. Just like the majority of Sony's TVs, Handycams etc which do in fact launch throughout the year and not just at Christmas. The point being that anonymous sources and conspiracy theorists aside, rational business people do not knowingly release defective products and rack up huge warranty costs and bad publicity, just for the sake of hitting Christmas.

Again, the discussion is not whether they rushed...it is not whether they effed up....it is not whether their test procedures sucked....etc....it is did they knowingly and deliberately release a faulty product, which I find hard to believe. This is one of the world's most important companies with one of the most recognizable brands on the planet. In all my years I have never met an executive who would risk that kind brand damage by knowingly dumping a flawed product on the market. It isn't rational.

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

Even if the RROD problem is finally fixed (or soon to be fixed), does it even matter at this point? I mean, knowledge of this problem is so widespread, with such bad accompanying PR, can a fix improve the 360's fortunes? After all, perception is reality, and if the perception of the 360 is that of a faulty piece of machinery, does fixing the issue once and for all even matter at this point, or is it already too late for this gen?

colmusterd28

ha ha... no offence but it sounds so badly that your reaching for a reason to put a bad spin on MS fixing its only major problem... RRoD being eraticated is good news in every sence, sorry to hurt your feelings.

Why would I take offense? No, I don't think I'm reaching... I think I'm asking a valid question. I'm not interested in spin, I'll leave that for others.

[QUOTE="planbfreak4eva"]

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=119888

http://www.ripten.com/2007/07/03/failure-rate-xbox-360-high-as-33-sony-ps3-less-than-1/

http://www.fastsilicon.com/latest-news/microsoft-admits-all-xbox360s-are-defective.html

delta3074

2. none of these articles say the 360 is maxed out, show me one dev (that is actually working on the 360) sayaing the 360 is maxed out. and no more "MAYBE" links please.

[QUOTE="GabeNewellsPie"]

The RROD is way overhyped,and is basically used by desperate cows as the only stick with which to beat the 360.

Like I said before I have 3 360s in my house and have had no problems with any of them.

AmyMizuno

Well, thanks for the lesson in Fanboy 101, Amy. Don't worry Pinnochio, one day you'll be a REAL boy... and stop having these pesky problems with your nose. Maybe your Sony paymasters will pay for the transfiguration.

[QUOTE="GabeNewellsPie"][QUOTE="kingsfan_0333"]

Yes but the key difference is that there are loads of people in these forums with similar personal experiences, and to be honest with you...your personal experience is a rarity around here. So while your personal experience might seem common to you, everyone else is looking around at all of these problems and seeing your situation as being in the strong minority. Whether or not you think these people have nothing better to do than make up fake stories is up to you to decide, but if you are trying to tell me that I am somehow lieing and that my 360 actually works right now than i would love to supply you with some pictures.

All i'm saying is that my 360 effed up 3 times now..and they want $100 from me to fix it. Whether or not this happens to you isn't going to alter my situation at all...but around here A LOT of people are having hardware problems. I believe MS themselves has admitted to at least 30%, which they've also said is unacceptable, thus the warrenty change. It's nice that you haven't had any problems...but if you look around you'll see that the problems are clearly out there, and they are pissing people off. I'm not one of those ps3 fans that are claiming to have massive RROD issues..you can check my post history and clearly see that I have defended the 360 blindly for years. But in all honesty no console/system is worth this amount of frustration...especially when there is a direct competitor on the market.

kingsfan_0333

Y'know its funny you saying I'm in the minority.I think its true that the MAJORITY of 360 owners havent actually had the RROD.Its you who is in the minority.

Just thought I'd put that out there guys.Judging from these forum pages you would think that just about everyone with a 360 has had the 3 Red Rings. :roll:

Hey smart guy, I wasn't say that you were the minority in terms of the world population, I was saying that you are the minority in these forums...which from what I've seen is absolutly true.

Why are we just talking about the forums again?. Oh right because it fits your argument perfectly.If we went out into the real world you'd find the vast majority of 360 owners haven't had any problems.

The forums=/= The real world.Just though I'd add that.

Why are we just talking about the forums again?. Oh right because it fits your argument perfectly.If we went out into the real world you'd find the vast majority of 360 owners haven't had any problems.

The forums=/= The real world.Just though I'd add that.

GabeNewellsPie

You are correct, but I doubt that by pure chance of fate the general experience of forum users here doesn't somewhat mirror the real world. We may not be indicative of demographics, psychographics, or even geographics for everyone, but we are probably pretty indicative in this regard.

The RROD is way overhyped,and is basically used by desperate cows as the only stick with which to beat the 360.

Like I said before I have 3 360s in my house and have had no problems with any of them.

GabeNewellsPie

[QUOTE="GabeNewellsPie"]

Why are we just talking about the forums again?. Oh right because it fits your argument perfectly.If we went out into the real world you'd find the vast majority of 360 owners haven't had any problems.

The forums=/= The real world.Just though I'd add that.

dsmccracken

You are correct, but I doubt that by pure chance of fate the general experience of forum users here doesn't somewhat mirror the real world. We may not be indicative of demographics, psychographics, or even geographics for everyone, but we are probably pretty indicative in this regard.

I know what you're saying,but some people are trying to twist this issue out of all preportion to suit they're argument. The results in these forums are going to be skewed with regards the RROD issue,because SW is populated by alot of dedicated/hardcore gamers who are obviously gonna air their views about the subject and share their stories,which makes the problem appear worse than what it is imo.

But if you went out into the real world and took a sample of 360 owners at random,then most would never have had a problem infact I'm betting some wouldn't have ever heard of RROD.

The RROD is way overhyped,and is basically used by desperate cows as the only stick with which to beat the 360.

Like I said before I have 3 360s in my house and have had no problems with any of them.

GabeNewellsPie

if it's not overblown, then how come even most casuals know about it? it is a big problem. for your 3 360's that have not died i have had 1 die, and i know at least 5 people with 360's that have died twice and i know one guy whose has died 8 times.

microsoft simply needs to rework the hardware so it doens't have a problem... it's not that hard, they're a multimillion dollar corporation with millions of engineers and such technical people employed. do they all just sit there and stare at the RROD and go WTF?

[QUOTE="kingsfan_0333"][QUOTE="GabeNewellsPie"][QUOTE="kingsfan_0333"]

Yes but the key difference is that there are loads of people in these forums with similar personal experiences, and to be honest with you...your personal experience is a rarity around here. So while your personal experience might seem common to you, everyone else is looking around at all of these problems and seeing your situation as being in the strong minority. Whether or not you think these people have nothing better to do than make up fake stories is up to you to decide, but if you are trying to tell me that I am somehow lieing and that my 360 actually works right now than i would love to supply you with some pictures.

All i'm saying is that my 360 effed up 3 times now..and they want $100 from me to fix it. Whether or not this happens to you isn't going to alter my situation at all...but around here A LOT of people are having hardware problems. I believe MS themselves has admitted to at least 30%, which they've also said is unacceptable, thus the warrenty change. It's nice that you haven't had any problems...but if you look around you'll see that the problems are clearly out there, and they are pissing people off. I'm not one of those ps3 fans that are claiming to have massive RROD issues..you can check my post history and clearly see that I have defended the 360 blindly for years. But in all honesty no console/system is worth this amount of frustration...especially when there is a direct competitor on the market.

GabeNewellsPie

Y'know its funny you saying I'm in the minority.I think its true that the MAJORITY of 360 owners havent actually had the RROD.Its you who is in the minority.

Just thought I'd put that out there guys.Judging from these forum pages you would think that just about everyone with a 360 has had the 3 Red Rings. :roll:

Hey smart guy, I wasn't say that you were the minority in terms of the world population, I was saying that you are the minority in these forums...which from what I've seen is absolutly true.

Why are we just talking about the forums again?. Oh right because it fits your argument perfectly.If we went out into the real world you'd find the vast majority of 360 owners haven't had any problems.

The forums=/= The real world.Just though I'd add that.

The forums is the best representation of a wide range of people that we have. You can tell me that you know a few people here and there, but in general you can't stretch far beyond your local limits. And the same for me. I know a few people...quite a few people actually..who have had RROD and have had to send their system in. But in general I am limited to the people I know. Microsoft has not given us any kind of recent update on the RROD issue..and the only statements they've made are very outdated, so going by those numbers would be a bad idea as well. I've had the RROD as recent as last November, so if anybody is trying to tell me that MS has a handle on the situation i'll have to view them as ignorant to the situation.

The forums aren't perfect, but it gives us the best representation of people from a wide variety of locations. It's not just the people I know vs the people you know. People are free to come here and say they have had problems, and they are free to come here and say they haven't. And judging by this thread, you are in the minority. I'm not going to look back through the pages, but has anyone else stepped forward and said they still have their original 360?

Just thought I'd add that.

What about the PS2 and its DRE problems? Didn't slow it any.HuusAsking

That's because there was barely any.

The forums is the best representation of a wide range of people that we have. You can tell me that you know a few people here and there, but in general you can't stretch far beyond your local limits. And the same for me. I know a few people...quite a few people actually..who have had RROD and have had to send their system in. But in general I am limited to the people I know. Microsoft has not given us any kind of recent update on the RROD issue..and the only statements they've made are very outdated, so going by those numbers would be a bad idea as well. I've had the RROD as recent as last November, so if anybody is trying to tell me that MS has a handle on the situation i'll have to view them as ignorant to the situation.

The forums aren't perfect, but it gives us the best representation of people from a wide variety of locations. It's not just the people I know vs the people you know. People are free to come here and say they have had problems, and they are free to come here and say they haven't. And judging by this thread, you are in the minority. I'm not going to look back through the pages, but has anyone else stepped forward and said they still have their original 360?

Just thought I'd add that.

kingsfan_0333

Funny how my friends did even know what it as when I asked :roll: the probably exists, but hardly anyone really knows about it.

The RROD is way overhyped,and is basically used by desperate cows as the only stick with which to beat the 360.

Like I said before I have 3 360s in my house and have had no problems with any of them.

GabeNewellsPie

I find that so hard to believe I'm going to go ahead and say you are not being truthful. I had 2, both broke. Every one I know save 1 guy had to send their 360 off at one time or another. This is not hype, or lies by cows, it is essentially a guarantee that at some point nearly every 360 breaks down.

You think the billion + that MS has handed out on repairs is a figment of our collective imaginations?

You think that rather gigantic thread in the 360 forums of lemmings talking about their RROD problems is fake?

I mean, 3, THREE?! No, not unless you have had them for a couple months. The odds that all would be fine after 6 months with no returns is so minimal I find it impossible to believe.

Interestingly, RRoD doesn't seem to be a 'problem' for xbox360 at all. An 'inconvenience' for some (popular opinion estimates a failure-rate between 16 - 35%) consumers? Irrefutably. But, a 'problem'? I think not.

When you consider the progress that xbox360 has made (and continues to make) in the marketplace, the sheer popularity of it's flagship software titles, the continued support and endorsements from game developers and the size of it's continually growing online community, RRoD seems to be largely inconsequential...

its never too late.

when its fixed, public opinion will slowly change. may take a couple years but itll vounce back,

its never too late.

when its fixed, public opinion will slowly change. may take a couple years but itll vounce back,

-GhostMLD-

Yes....IF, and only if they extend the warranty for pre-Elites until the end of the 360's product lifecycle. They drop the warranty out from under these duds, and when they start dying and people are out $300 bucks on their system, MS is going to have MASS defections to Sony's platform.

Even if the RROD problem is finally fixed (or soon to be fixed), does it even matter at this point? I mean, knowledge of this problem is so widespread, with such bad accompanying PR, can a fix improve the 360's fortunes? After all, perception is reality, and if the perception of the 360 is that of a faulty piece of machinery, does fixing the issue once and for all even matter at this point, or is it already too late for this gen?

dsmccracken

[QUOTE="GabeNewellsPie"][QUOTE="kingsfan_0333"][QUOTE="GabeNewellsPie"][QUOTE="FunkyHeadHunter"]

YOu do realize this "emaginary problem" has been publicized on tv right?You do know its a known fact and is wide spread right? You do do realize MS has admited that EVERY 360 from launch on is defective right? Or is MS just playing a joke on us consumers?

farrell2k

Like I said before your little anecdotes are entertaining and all,but they have no effect on me.None.

Good for you...but unfortunatly the whole world (and these forums) don't revolve around you. Nobody is saying that YOU have had problems with YOUR console, they are saying that they have had problems with theirs. They don't have to have an effect on you...but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

I'm sorry but people are using THEIR personal experiences to try to convince people theat the RROD issue is biiger than it really is,when from my personal experience the problem is very small.

What I learned from reading this thread so far:

1. If you have had the rrod, or know someone who has, you can use your personal experience to claim it is a huge problem.

2. If you haven't experienced the rrod, and know of no one who has, you cannot claim it is not a huge problem because it is just your personal experience.

This shows you that fanboys who make topics like this are not living in the same world as everyone else.

Huh, that's funny, because I made this topic. Are you saying I'm a Sony fanboy? Take a look at my posting history if you're up for feeling like a total jacka$$.

And for one of the posters above who mentioned it, I also have never had the RROD, though I know someone who is one either his 3rd or 4th (can't remember).