True Or False: There Has NEVER Been A Game Where Choice Actually Mattered

there has only been illusion of choice, and in the end it plays out relatively the same. do you agree

even in the oft-heralded witcher 2 choice makes little difference when its all said and done. if you think of it, there is actually only one ending. southern Empire attacks weakened northern kingdoms and it's no more your business. you either farewell Roche/Iorveth or leave with them but it doesn't matter, Roche saves little princess anyway and Iorveth never gets his elven dream come true. you eitherway end up with Triss, nevermind who saved her and you live happily ever after... until "The Witcher 3"

there has only been illusion of choice, and in the end it plays out relatively the same. do you agree

even in the oft-heralded witcher 2 choice makes little difference when its all said and done. if you think of it, there is actually only one ending. southern Empire attacks weakened northern kingdoms and it's no more your business. you either farewell Roche/Iorveth or leave with them but it doesn't matter, Roche saves little princess anyway and Iorveth never gets his elven dream come true. you eitherway end up with Triss, nevermind who saved her and you live happily ever after... until "The Witcher 3"

black_chamber99

It matters in terms of what ending you get.In witcher 2 roche will look different near the end of the game depending on what choices you made on his side.

Heavy Rain

Heavy Rain

Funky_Connor

/thread

New Vegas is probably the best example from this generation of games. Fallout's always a prime example though (aside from 3, which is a Bethesda game so go figure). Fallout 1 especially has some wildly different things happen depending on your choices, slightly less so in Fallout 2. Most games are too expensive to radically change based on your choices any more. Having to more or less make 2 or 3 different games based on choices is very expensive and time consuming with modern games. It's a bit of a shame, but it's the truth.

Some games have more than one ending depending upon your choices. Stupid thread.UCF_Knight

the point is how you get there all plays out the same you mental midget

KOTOR has 2 vastly different endings depending on what you do.The_Pacific

yeah one light side or dark side choice right at the end of the game to determine the ending you get, rendering all your previous choices completely worthless. KOTOR is a perfect example of illusion of choice

[QUOTE="Funky_Connor"]

Heavy Rain

Mattizzle815

/thread

An unexpected good answer. As another said, New vegas as well. I'm sure there are more. They are just few and far in between, making the illusion of choice a very true reality.

[QUOTE="UCF_Knight"]Some games have more than one ending depending upon your choices. Stupid thread.black_chamber99

the point is how you get there all plays out the same you mental midget

witcher 2, whole chapters change depending on your choises. mass effect choises are a joke

[QUOTE="Funky_Connor"]

Heavy Rain

Mattizzle815

/thread

You said game, you never said VIDEOgame.

Dungeons and Dragons. BAM. Discussion over.

:P

Deus ex?

School days ;)

If you really think this then you've been playing all the wrong games.

Heavy Rain of course, then there's Fallout: New Vegas, and Alpha Protocol probably does it best (which explains why so much else of it is terrible I guess).

New Vegas is probably the best example from this generation of games. Fallout's always a prime example though (aside from 3, which is a Bethesda game so go figure). Fallout 1 especially has some wildly different things happen depending on your choices, slightly less so in Fallout 2. Most games are too expensive to radically change based on your choices any more. Having to more or less make 2 or 3 different games based on choices is very expensive and time consuming with modern games. It's a bit of a shame, but it's the truth.

Kiro0

Beat me to it - Fallout's choices changed the ending, which was really cool after playing through the entire game. Can't wait for Wasteland 2...

Heavy Rain the best game ever.

The Witcher

Can name several games, one being Deus Ex, the other being an underrated diamond in the dirt kind of game, Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines. Bloodlines had, as far as i remember 7 endings.

The game was a complete mess when it got released, but turned into an instant classic, with a community that mods the game and fixes the bugs. Good thing it runs on the Source engine. You need the community patches, or the game may simply break and you will get stuck.

even in the oft-heralded witcher 2 choice makes little difference when its all said and done. if you think of it, there is actually only one ending.

black_chamber99

I can't say that I agree with that. The general framework is the same no matter what you do, but your choices along the way determine the focus of the story, tailoring the plot details and ultimate resolution to whatever your Geralt is focusing on.

Or, to put it another way, your choices provide Geralt with his motivations, and those motivations are fulfilled in different ways by the end of the game.

Anyway, back to the big question...sure there are plenty of games were there is more than the illusion of choice. Companies like Bioware and Bethesda might not understand that concept very well, but for others (such as some of the games mentioned in this thread) choice can have a large impact on how things play out, narratively or gameplay-wise.

Heavy Rain and F:NV are good examples. I also suggest people watch this video

OF course there are games where choices matter. Mass Effect 2 is an example....your choices determine whether members of the crew live or die throughout the last 1/3 of the game. Also your choices in ME decide whether certain characters (some minor, some major) will appear in ME2.

The Witcher 2.

there has only been illusion of choice, and in the end it plays out relatively the same. do you agree

even in the oft-heralded witcher 2 choice makes little difference when its all said and done. if you think of it, there is actually only one ending.

black_chamber99

I havent played the console version only seen someone play it but the PC version has like 18 diferent endings or something.

There are some but not as many as one might think. There are still "forced paths" that the player has to take despite one believes his "choices" can do.

For example, you'll need to be on either side in New vegas (yesman Mr. House NCR Caesar), cannot complete without never going to Hoover Dam, which meant you're already stuck with a forced linear route. Several others may also have you involve with an inevitable encounter (usually a boss). You might "persuade' them during the encounter, but no matter whatever your PREVIOUS actions are, you cannot complete the game without the encounter.

It's still the level of choose your own adventure books for now. Maybe one day we'll get real rpgs like tabletop. I wish I could see that day coming, since more games use illusions of choices now (not even CYOA books level) and they are really popular. :(

There are any number of games, but this one for me really stands out:

[QUOTE="Funky_Connor"]

Heavy Rain

Mattizzle815

/thread

How about Civilization, thats 100% choices

How about Civilization, thats 100% choices

LaytonsCat

The Witcher 2 is a great example. It completely changes the path you take depending on your actions. Important people live or die and it can make a quest go faster or can make it take longer.

[QUOTE="UCF_Knight"]Some games have more than one ending depending upon your choices. Stupid thread.black_chamber99

the point is how you get there all plays out the same you mental midget

In Blade Runner the game randomnly decided who among the cast was android and then let you influence the whole plot in major way.

Visual novels usually split into separate completely different story routes based on your decisions

And most of all, majority of big-scale strategy games change their course completely based on your own actions.

So, while you're wrong saying that there has never been a game where your choices actually matter

People say this is a stupid thread but Morality and Choice in games can be a very interesting topic.

If you make sure that your choices matter in terms of story or rewards and you show upfront how it matters, gamers prefer that. My gamedesign books tell me to do it like that. But I strongly disagree, because you lose all intrinsic value of the choice you make.

When you make a choice in KOTOR or ME you do it because you wanted to make a good or evil character and you picked answers based on their colours.
When you make a choice in Infamous you do it for the powers you get.

Basically every thing you do in a game is making a choice. And it is generally a good idea that a game is upfront with its feedback and not completely unpredictable/trial-and-error.

However when it comes to moral choices in games, I feel that it is exactly no clear reward and no clear consequence that makes a moral decision tough to make. You don't have an excuse to choose this or that. The answer you give is completely 'you'. The Witcher does this really well. Oftentimes you don't really know what is best from a gameplay perspective, so you start to actually think about what they are asking you. And I love that.

Choice matters because it doesn't matter in terms of reward or path, or at least not obviously. The one exception being the ending. Because there is nothing after the end, so you are not influenced by your desires to play a certain way. The ending is always a moral choice unless it is connected to achievements or new game+ conditions.

Sorry for hijacking. I couldn't stop my mind from rattling on. There have been games where the ending was completely different based on your decisions. Indigo Prophecy for example. And some decide your path, like in Star Fox Lylat Wars.

There are any number of games, but this one for me really stands out:

blue_hazy_basic

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]

There are any number of games, but this one for me really stands out:

KungfuKitten

Trust me it mattered :c