(Un)official (maybe sorta) Revote of Using GS Scores in SW (Sticky?)

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]

GS takes bribes. Plain and simple. WE can't use it anymore.

Probably 95% of big Xbox 360 games that were reviewed was bought. Obviously, from Micro$oft... $$$$$$$

Dreams-Visions

Show me the proof. Nothing we've seen today proves anything of the sort. We don't know how many incidents have led up to this move. We don't know the full rationale yet, as far as I know.

We won't know the full story unless Gamespot speaks up but if theydo they'll go in full damage control.

We just have to assume that most of their AAA games were bought.

well...what of the other websites? the other magazines. as has been talked about countless times in the past, Gamespot's scoring is on PAR with the game scores for just about every game you can name with the rest of the industry's opinion.

I say we choose 5 most trusted websites or magazinesexcluding GS(because theyare liars)and average their scores.

But are there 5 to trust?

IGN - eh....ok.

1UP - People hate them

GameInformer - ok.

GamePro - people hate them

GameSpy - nobody cares about them

Edge - Nobody likes them.

Gametrailers - ok.

Who's left?

So, IGN, Gameinformer, Gametrailers... add in Eurogamer...

Just one more.

I mentioned earlier that most scores fanboys see as biased were either similar or higher on other sites.Tiefster

Which again brings me to the point: if there is evidence of INFLATING SCORES, someone needs to point it out, because I ain't seeing it. I've not seen them blow but a handfull of reviews all-time. They're typically spot on. Always within a couple of points of everyone else, above or below.

Not exactly the smoking gun of a website that is biased and is giving articial scores to anyone.

[QUOTE="JiveT"]

How about the average of Gamespot, IGN, and Eurogamer scores?

I voted for Gamespot in the poll but this tremendous idea just struck like a bolt from the blue.

XenogearsMaster

Yeah, that's what I was thinking except exclude Gamespot (because their credibility is blown) and we should add 3 more.

I say, IGN, 1UP, Eurogamer, GI,... what else?

I agree with that so far...No Gamerrankings or Metacritic. They are and will always be flawed. Any Hick can post a review on dampen scores if need be.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="SolidTy"]

Well, I make it a habit to not just complain, but to throw at least a solution out there. GameInformer would definately be more free for their own opinions, as they are tied to Gamestop, and that means they may have more freedom to say what needs to be said.

Still, I do remember you saying there was NO BIAS at GS...that didn't prove to be so true, from what we know right now.

Either way, as humans there is no perfect solution, just mags/sites we trust. GS isn't one of those now.

Many Presidents have had to do some shady things, but we always remember the Nixon's/Bush's. They all have skeleton's, but that's where you go with your gut.

GS and CNET sites no longer get that luxury.

SolidTy

But in truth, we've still not seen any evidence of them showing bias to anyone. We know a guy was fired. We know it had something to do a review that impacted Gamespots banner ad revenue. I don't know if we have any more real information than that. This may have been a final straw for Gamespot. And given how hard Gamespot has been on all games, I wouldn't think it's fair to presume any inflated scores to date. would you?

Again, with the "No bias" thing, people have assembled those threads before. Gamespot's scoring is on par with other websites and that's a fact. We've all seen the numbers.

I don't know if we ever will see evidence. I hope we do. I hope we see something that clears this up, but in the meantime, what are we to do. Right now, we have momentum for change. That cant' be conjured up whenever. I do know that GS is hard on games...This thread is a tad premature, to say the least, but the masses are reacting.

All we can do is control the flow, because we can't stop this...if it's a real Review Revolt. That said, what is the solution?

I don't know if we ever will see evidence. I hope we do. I hope we see something that clears this up, but in the meantime, what are we to do. Right now, we have momentum for change. That cant' be conjured up whenever. I do know that GS is hard on games...This thread is a tad premature, to say the least, but the masses are reacting.

All we can do is control the flow, because we can't stop this...if it's a real Review Revolt. That said, what is the solution?

SolidTy

I agree with XenogearsMaster.

Average off 4 or 5 of the most respected websites and go from there.

Nobody will be totally happy...but it is what it is.

Gamerankings will not work, the scores change too often. Every hyped game gets AAA on GR, what's the fun in that? The reason GS scores were great was because they were unpredictable.

An average of 1UP and Gametrailers for me.

[QUOTE="Ibacai"]Any way we go we're pretty much in the gutter. GS - Review scores called into question with ad dollars. GR - Not every game reviewed by all the same sites/magazines and some sites counted are clearly biased. Meta - Yeah, same thing as GR. Other - How can we agree on a single site? Polls? :roll: ;) SW meta game, you've just been pwnt. Oh well.Dreams-Visions

Glad somebody has a goddamn clue at this time of night.

Gamerankigns.com doesn't use the same set of reviewers for all reviews.

Gamerankings.com includes fansites in their average scores.

Gamerankings.com uses reviews that are not standardized (some are out of 10, some out of 5, some out of 100).

Not all reviews look for the same qualities and quantities, but Gamerankings.com treats them all the same by design.

4 clear, fundamental flaws.

[QUOTE="Tiefster"]
I mentioned earlier that most scores fanboys see as biased were either similar or higher on other sites.Dreams-Visions

Which again brings me to the point: if there is evidence of INFLATING SCORES, someone needs to point it out, because I ain't seeing it. I've not seen them blow but a handfull of reviews all-time. They're typically spot on. Always within a couple of points of everyone else, above or below.

Not exactly the smoking gun of a website that is biased and is giving articial scores to anyone.

That's not his point Zhengi, just that GR has it's own flaws. Rock --------- US ----------- Hard Place (Branson, Missouri) And we still have no hard proof of "bribes" or even "coercion". What we do have is doubt.Ibacai

So GS doesn't have its flaws? It was a flawed system to begin with to use only one site in the first place, and it was further flawed when the decision to keep it in place after the changing in review system occurred.

So now they've gone from firing a guy for whatever the full reasons are (which will never be disclosed) to taking bribes for games from advertisers? What bribes? When? Links? or is this all in your imagination right now?Dreams-Visions

So this didn't happen, right:

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26072117

People are talking about it. So Eidos didn't pull the ads of Kane and Lynch from the website? All of this happening in my head? Maybe you're denying anything has really happened in your head. If anything, this brings a lot of doubt to the flaw system of relying on GS even more.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]But are there 5 to trust? IGN - eh....ok. 1UP - People hate them GameInformer - ok. GamePro - people hate them GameSpy - nobody cares about them Edge - Nobody likes them. Gametrailers - ok. Who's left?Ibacai

I agree with this too. You guys can go to any of the above websites and see these sites are covered from head to toe with banner ads.

It's how they make their money, you guys. You can't get away from that reality if you want free downloads, free videos, free audio clips, free web forums, free bandwidth, free this and that. This stuff does not come cheap or easy.

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

I don't know if we ever will see evidence. I hope we do. I hope we see something that clears this up, but in the meantime, what are we to do. Right now, we have momentum for change. That cant' be conjured up whenever. I do know that GS is hard on games...This thread is a tad premature, to say the least, but the masses are reacting.

All we can do is control the flow, because we can't stop this...if it's a real Review Revolt. That said, what is the solution?

Dreams-Visions

I agree with XenogearsMaster.

Average off 4 or 5 of the most respected websites and go from there.

Nobody will be totally happy...but it is what it is.

[QUOTE="Ibacai"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]But are there 5 to trust? IGN - eh....ok. 1UP - People hate them GameInformer - ok. GamePro - people hate them GameSpy - nobody cares about them Edge - Nobody likes them. Gametrailers - ok. Who's left?Dreams-Visions

I agree with this too. You guys can go to any of the above websites and see these sites are covered from head to toe with banner ads.

It's how they make their money, you guys. You can't get away from that reality if you want free downloads, free videos, free audio clips, free web forums, free bandwidth, free this and that. This stuff does not come cheap or easy.

[QUOTE="Ibacai"]That's not his point Zhengi, just that GR has it's own flaws. Rock --------- US ----------- Hard Place (Branson, Missouri) And we still have no hard proof of "bribes" or even "coercion". What we do have is doubt.Zhengi

**How about we just pick a number of trusted sites and avergae their reviews??

Edit: I see I'm late on that Idea :oops:

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]So now they've gone from firing a guy for whatever the full reasons are (which will never be disclosed) to taking bribes for games from advertisers? What bribes? When? Links? or is this all in your imagination right now?Zhengi

So this didn't happen, right:

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26072117

People are talking about it. So Eidos didn't pull the ads of Kane and Lynch from the website? All of this happening in my head? Maybe you're denying anything has really happened in your head. If anything, this brings a lot of doubt to the flaw system of relying on GS even more.

No that happened, but it doesn't translate to "Gamespot is taking bribes". Edios clearly purchased banner ads here with THEIR MONEY. They decided it was in the best interests of THEIR COMPANY to take THEIR MONEY and go elsewhere with it. That has nothing to do with a BRIBE (attempting to give someone money in secret for nefarious purposes). Now we don't know how many times this has happened thanks to a Jeff review. In fact, we don't know anything. This may have simply been the last straw of many issues Jeff has caused their business. Who knows.

That's the point. We don't know the full reasons for anything right now. And if what we know now is all we ever know, it's not enough to level charges like "they're taking bribes" from anyone.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="SolidTy"]

I don't know if we ever will see evidence. I hope we do. I hope we see something that clears this up, but in the meantime, what are we to do. Right now, we have momentum for change. That cant' be conjured up whenever. I do know that GS is hard on games...This thread is a tad premature, to say the least, but the masses are reacting.

All we can do is control the flow, because we can't stop this...if it's a real Review Revolt. That said, what is the solution?

Hoffgod

I agree with XenogearsMaster.

Average off 4 or 5 of the most respected websites and go from there.

Nobody will be totally happy...but it is what it is.

I'm still with GS scores on this one.DaysAirlines

Really.....as long as the rumours stay true I can't follow.

GR or MC is my choice. Actually my#1 choice is to abolish the Hype System completely.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

[QUOTE="Ibacai"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]But are there 5 to trust? IGN - eh....ok. 1UP - People hate them GameInformer - ok. GamePro - people hate them GameSpy - nobody cares about them Edge - Nobody likes them. Gametrailers - ok. Who's left?Tiefster

I agree with this too. You guys can go to any of the above websites and see these sites are covered from head to toe with banner ads.

It's how they make their money, you guys. You can't get away from that reality if you want free downloads, free videos, free audio clips, free web forums, free bandwidth, free this and that. This stuff does not come cheap or easy.

Pretty much. Unless people are willing to live with bare-bones websites that have no banners...and no web forums and a skeleton staff to boot, we're going to have to deal with the ocassional controversy at any site. I think so, anyway.

**How about we just pick a number of trusted sites and avergae their reviews??Liquid-GEAR

Eurogamer and Gametrailers, maybe 1UP.

[QUOTE="DaysAirlines"]I'm still with GS scores on this one.MikeE21286

Really.....as long as the rumours stay true I can't follow.

GR or MC is my choice. Actually my#1 choice is to abolish the Hype System completely.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

[QUOTE="Tiefster"]
I mentioned earlier that most scores fanboys see as biased were either similar or higher on other sites.Ibacai

Which again brings me to the point: if there is evidence of INFLATING SCORES, someone needs to point it out, because I ain't seeing it. I've not seen them blow but a handfull of reviews all-time. They're typically spot on. Always within a couple of points of everyone else, above or below.

Not exactly the smoking gun of a website that is biased and is giving articial scores to anyone.

I hear you, bro. Trust and integrity are the hardest things to regain after they've been lost...for a company or an individual.

You can't take GR. Gaming journalism became polluted since this industry turned into a multibillion dollar monster.

No gaming site is innocent, the problem is that GS was too damn obvious. I've been loyaly visiting this site since videogames.com and it saddens me to see it in such state.

If we take an average of a few sits we NEED to include GS though. As much as some of you doubt their credibility right now they still provide quality reviews most of the time.Tiefster

[QUOTE="Zhengi"]

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]So now they've gone from firing a guy for whatever the full reasons are (which will never be disclosed) to taking bribes for games from advertisers? What bribes? When? Links? or is this all in your imagination right now?Dreams-Visions

So this didn't happen, right:

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26072117

People are talking about it. So Eidos didn't pull the ads of Kane and Lynch from the website? All of this happening in my head? Maybe you're denying anything has really happened in your head. If anything, this brings a lot of doubt to the flaw system of relying on GS even more.

No that happened, but it doesn't translate to "Gamespot is taking bribes". Edios clearly purchased banner ads here with THEIR MONEY. They decided it was in the best interests of THEIR COMPANY to take THEIR MONEY and go elsewhere with it. That has nothing to do with a BRIBE (attempting to give someone money in secret for nefarious purposes). Now we don't know how many times this has happened thanks to a Jeff review. In fact, we don't know anything. This may have simply been the last straw of many issues Jeff has caused their business. Who knows.

That's the point. We don't know the full reasons for anything right now. And if what we know now is all we ever know, it's not enough to level charges like "they're taking bribes" from anyone.

You can't take GR. Gaming journalism became polluted since this industry turned into a multibillion dollar monster.

No gaming site is innocent, the problem is that GS was too damn obvious. I've been loyaly visiting this site since videogames.com and it saddens me to see it in such state.

fierro316

Well...I'm glad others are starting to absorb this basic reality. It's a business. A multi-billion dollar cut-throat business. Many lives and livelihoods sink and swim on sales and reviews. It's for big boys now.

[QUOTE="DaysAirlines"]I'm still with GS scores on this one.MikeE21286

Really.....as long as the rumours stay true I can't follow.

GR or MC is my choice. Actually my#1 choice is to abolish the Hype System completely.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Zhengi"]

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]So now they've gone from firing a guy for whatever the full reasons are (which will never be disclosed) to taking bribes for games from advertisers? What bribes? When? Links? or is this all in your imagination right now?Tiefster

So this didn't happen, right:

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26072117

People are talking about it. So Eidos didn't pull the ads of Kane and Lynch from the website? All of this happening in my head? Maybe you're denying anything has really happened in your head. If anything, this brings a lot of doubt to the flaw system of relying on GS even more.

No that happened, but it doesn't translate to "Gamespot is taking bribes". Edios clearly purchased banner ads here with THEIR MONEY. They decided it was in the best interests of THEIR COMPANY to take THEIR MONEY and go elsewhere with it. That has nothing to do with a BRIBE (attempting to give someone money in secret for nefarious purposes). Now we don't know how many times this has happened thanks to a Jeff review. In fact, we don't know anything. This may have simply been the last straw of many issues Jeff has caused their business. Who knows.

That's the point. We don't know the full reasons for anything right now. And if what we know now is all we ever know, it's not enough to level charges like "they're taking bribes" from anyone.

Fair enough.

But what do we do in the likely even that we get no more information?

[QUOTE="fierro316"]

You can't take GR. Gaming journalism became polluted since this industry turned into a multibillion dollar monster.

No gaming site is innocent, the problem is that GS was too damn obvious. I've been loyaly visiting this site since videogames.com and it saddens me to see it in such state.

Dreams-Visions

Well...I'm glad others are starting to absorb this basic reality. It's a business. A multi-billion dollar cut-throat business. Many lives and livelihoods sink and swim on sales and reviews. It's for big boys now.

[QUOTE="Tiefster"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Zhengi"]

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]So now they've gone from firing a guy for whatever the full reasons are (which will never be disclosed) to taking bribes for games from advertisers? What bribes? When? Links? or is this all in your imagination right now?Dreams-Visions

So this didn't happen, right:

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26072117

People are talking about it. So Eidos didn't pull the ads of Kane and Lynch from the website? All of this happening in my head? Maybe you're denying anything has really happened in your head. If anything, this brings a lot of doubt to the flaw system of relying on GS even more.

No that happened, but it doesn't translate to "Gamespot is taking bribes". Edios clearly purchased banner ads here with THEIR MONEY. They decided it was in the best interests of THEIR COMPANY to take THEIR MONEY and go elsewhere with it. That has nothing to do with a BRIBE (attempting to give someone money in secret for nefarious purposes). Now we don't know how many times this has happened thanks to a Jeff review. In fact, we don't know anything. This may have simply been the last straw of many issues Jeff has caused their business. Who knows.

That's the point. We don't know the full reasons for anything right now. And if what we know now is all we ever know, it's not enough to level charges like "they're taking bribes" from anyone.

Fair enough.

But what do we do in the likely even that we get no more information?

[QUOTE="Zhengi"]

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]So now they've gone from firing a guy for whatever the full reasons are (which will never be disclosed) to taking bribes for games from advertisers? What bribes? When? Links? or is this all in your imagination right now?Dreams-Visions

So this didn't happen, right:

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26072117

People are talking about it. So Eidos didn't pull the ads of Kane and Lynch from the website? All of this happening in my head? Maybe you're denying anything has really happened in your head. If anything, this brings a lot of doubt to the flaw system of relying on GS even more.

No that happened, but it doesn't translate to "Gamespot is taking bribes". Edios clearly purchased banner ads here with THEIR MONEY. They decided it was in the best interests of THEIR COMPANY to take THEIR MONEY and go elsewhere with it. That has nothing to do with a BRIBE (attempting to give someone money in secret for nefarious purposes). Now we don't know how many times this has happened thanks to a Jeff review. In fact, we don't know anything. This may have simply been the last straw of many issues Jeff has caused their business. Who knows.

That's the point. We don't know the full reasons for anything right now. And if what we know now is all we ever know, it's not enough to level charges like "they're taking bribes" from anyone.

This is as close to a bribe as one can get. GS gets money for advertising, and if Eidos really pulled all their ads due to the review, that's bribe money being taken away.

The circumstances are still in the air about all this, but you can't deny that it appears doubtful to trust GS right now. There are many flaws with the GS system right now and you go off on GR when GS is equally if not worse? In fact, with the entire integrity of GS on the balance due to this issue, what's to say that they didn't also get money from other developers for similar deals?

It appears that the System Wars score game is dead. GS scores are now all called into question. GR and metacritic hasflaws and the scores change. and we cant really say "lets use *random site*for scores now,"because thats just stupid.

What now SW??

In light of the new shoddy review system, definitely gamerankings---very much so the only progressive idea to have.

Fair enough.

But what do we do in the likely even that we get no more information?

Dreams-Visions

It appears that the System Wars score game is dead. GS scores are now all called into question. GR and metacritic hasflaws and the scores change. and we cant really say "lets use *random site*for scores now,"because thats just stupid.

What now SW??

laughingman42

We abolish the Hype Stuff Completely....

This is as close to a bribe as one can get. GS gets money for advertising, and if Eidos really pulled all their ads due to the review, that's bribe money being taken away.

The circumstances are still in the air about all this, but you can't deny that it appears doubtful to trust GS right now. There are many flaws with the GS system right now and you go off on GR when GS is equally if not worse? In fact, with the entire integrity of GS on the balance due to this issue, what's to say that they didn't also get money from other developers for similar deals?

Zhengi

All gaming websites take money from game publishers and developers in exchange for banner ad space. Where this becomes significant is in how important banner ad sales are to a given game site. some are more dependent than others. how dependent? we may never know without access to their financial reports and revenue metrics.

But to the general point: based on how you're looking at this, all gaming website take bribes.

Thing is, they're not bribes becuase sites aren't changing their game scoring because of a banner ad.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

Fair enough.

But what do we do in the likely even that we get no more information?

Hoffgod

have you ever known anybody that got fired?

have you ever known anybody that got dumped or divorced?

There are *always* two sides to a story. 3 sides, really. Just becase Jeff said it was because of Kane & Lynch doesn't make it gospel truth. I'm sure it had something to do with that, but I doubt that's where it begins and ends.

I'd like to think so, anyway.

To all those kids riding GS's jock telling people to leave: believe me, I really wish that IGN had a better forum.MisterEngilsh

same here.

[QUOTE="Zhengi"]

This is as close to a bribe as one can get. GS gets money for advertising, and if Eidos really pulled all their ads due to the review, that's bribe money being taken away.

The circumstances are still in the air about all this, but you can't deny that it appears doubtful to trust GS right now. There are many flaws with the GS system right now and you go off on GR when GS is equally if not worse? In fact, with the entire integrity of GS on the balance due to this issue, what's to say that they didn't also get money from other developers for similar deals?

Dreams-Visions

All gaming websites take money from game publishers and developers in exchange for banner ad space. Where this becomes significant is in how important banner ad sales are to a given game site. some are more dependent than others. how dependent? we may never know without access to their financial reports and revenue metrics.

But to the general point: based on how you're looking at this, all gaming website take bribes.

Thing is, they're not bribes becuase sites aren't changing their game scoring because of a banner ad.

Nope, I'm looking it as GS taking money and when the guys didn't get what they wanted, they committed a nefarious act because of it. I don't see other review sites firing their reviewers because of a review score. Heck, how come this hasn't happened at other sites since the average for the game is coming to be around the 6s as well?

And you haven't even addressed the fatal flaw that is relying on GS reviews. Integrity. How can anyone trust a site that has no integrity? That's even worse than any of the 4 flaws you listed for GR.

We are on gamespot only their reviews score counts.-wii60-

I see a lot of people in this thread claiming the GS review system is flawed. That may be true but no more flawed than any other site's review system.Tiefster

What are you talking about? Reviews are much much more subjective due to the latest innovation in their review system. There are many other reviews that are less subjective and much more objective.

We are on gamespot only their reviews score counts.-wii60-

Although I don't care about review scores I would have to agree. Seriously what's the point of coming here and using another sites review system? I just come here for the forums myself.