Valve cancels paid mods / Bethesda lost millions b/c mods

I get it that Skyrim, with it's huge community, was tempting for them. But it would probably end up a lot easier for Valve if did it to a new game, designed from ground up for such thing.

Valve should adopt the donations model like XDA Developers community did.

The whole teams of developers and sole programmers are making ROMs, mods and apps for the Android devices, which are completely free for users to download and use. If the users like what they installed, they have an option to donate to the developers.

I believe that the donation model could be the best thing to do regarding PC game mods, because many of those people really do deserve some kind of compensation for their hard work.

At first, I supported the decision on these forums, but after realizing the royalties and just how fucking poorly it was being utilized, this is by far the biggest **** up I've ever witnessed. What the **** were Valve thinking.

"Let's charge for something that has been free for 20 years AND take 75% royalty while ignoring any possibility of backlash!"

Man, what a mess. Not sure what they were thinking with this one.

This, i don't mind Beth getting a small slice either but the cut they had initially was atrocious.

Also, the vast majority of mods don't go through nearly enough Q&A to warrant payment up front in fact a good majority are flat out broke or they break something else in the game, how anyone can justify charging for that is beyond me.

So yeah, the donate option would by far be the best way to do it, maybe like humble bundle where you can choose the percentage each gets (80% creator, 10% Beth, 10% Valve for example).

The problem with that is such aproach kills any chances of professional modding and that's what Valve wanted to do. Altough maybe that's for the best. Currently when mod team wants to go pro they go to a company who made the game, license the engine/tech (mostly for promise of revenues split) and release it as a brand new standalone game. Which is harder than just modding, but in the end probably better in the end.

im not against the idea in principal. there are mods out there that i actually planned to pay for, donate too (and may still do if there is another secure way to do it). there are some mods for skyrim that i dont consider mods...they are essential to the game.

but i think it was just badly handled.

the split in revenue between valve, bethesda and the modder was completely unacceptable (this caused the most stink i think). in ireland, a few years back, there was a scandal regarding charities and how much donated money actually reaches the front line. it caused uproar. this had kinda the same feeling. people who donate or pay want to help people (or in this case reward people for their work) but if people find out 75c on the dollar is not going to the modder then whats the point? valve (for hosting) and bethesda should get something, sure, but the split was a non runner.

there was also issues of trust. modders are hobbyists. mods can break things or can be incompatible with mods and such like. when its free its fine. people understand its a hobby and that things can go wrong. you wait for a fix or find a workaround. if the modder loses interest then its a shame, if its a good mod, but fair enough. but when people start paying for things then expectations change. paid mods have to work. they have to work regardless of whatever other mods are there. maintaining a mod can become a full time job as people will expect speedy fixes.

we also saw the issue of modders using other mods as part of their mod which led to issues with distribution. if i pay for a mod i dont expect to be caught in the crossfire between ownership and distribution arguments. its right and just that those take place of course...if someone makes a mod and someone else uses their mod as part of their own mod, which they then charge for, then that is taking the whizz. but as a paying customer i dont expect to be notified of refunds because of these arguments. again its a trust issue.

at the end of the day i think valve and bethesda didnt understand the requirements for mods and making money.

i think the split in revenue was poorly decided. people who are willing to pay for mods want the money to go to the modder. at the end of the day, even if bethesda got nothing from mods, they would still benefit as they would have increased sales of the base game.

a system of trust also needs to be built in. if i am paying for a mod i want to know a few things like:

• the mod i have bought is the genuine article from the mod author (or someone authorised to upload it). its the same as a game..if i buy a game from steam i trust its genuine. i dont expect to see bethesda suing steam customers for buying skyrim from steam. if i thought that was going to happen (or if i thought valve didnt have the rights to sell games) i wouldnt buy games from steam.
• how will the mod be supported? a lot of mods fail or are never completed. thats fine when they are free. but if i pay for a mod i expect the finished article. what happens if the game is patched and that breaks the mod? am i out of pocket? this is especially important for mods where the modder has moved the mod behind the paywall (rather than just having donations).
• how will mods be verified so that they are known not to contain other mods that it shouldnt? again its a trust issue.

Yes indeed that was pretty much what i thought it meant

I knew this would be short lived, but holy shit I didn't think it would blow over that quickly.

Awesome.

Also, I do appreciate how straight forward they were with their wording, no beating around the bush.

Probably. Just not with a single player game that already has a 4 year old modding community.

Also, steam already has what is essentially paid mods, but with Valve's own games.

Problem with showing them why we dont want paid mods with our wallets and just not buy into this, is this. You get modders like the guy who created the SkyUI mod, that hold's back a much needed update just to get money. And the ones that totally pull all their mods and earlier versions that were days earlier free are now costly.

Then you have to realize the amount of people mainly kids, they are the ones who freely continue to support the nickel and diming of games, by buying DLC. It dont matter if a good chunk of people vote with their wallets you still get screwed by the other majority that send the message that its ok to continue this crap.

So many problems with paid mods, because vast majority of them are based from someone or uses someone else's work, which leads to issues of rights and plagiarism. You have cut ratio of 25% which is a slap in the face.

You run into issues of after buying a mod not knowing that it is kept up and updated as time goes on. Having no idea if they will continue to work or work with other mods. Some mods do not get used until later in games which throws out the 24 hour grace refund time.

it was another way for them to test the water and try to continue to nickel and dime gamers in another way.

This^^

Cool, didn't effect me either way.

Another example of PC's superiority over consoles though. The PC audience doesn't tolerate what they deem to be bullshit and that stuff usually gets fixed, consoles? lolokay

Right? Yet again Valve get away with murder and can simply brush off any damage by swiftly (but regrettably) reversing their capitalist plans.

''Bu.. bu.. but Gaben listened!!'' Yeah, while wishing he could stab you in the face for shooting his shitty ideas down.

Meanwhile MS get looked upon as sneaky bastards and money grabbing feinds for reversing DRM because the intention was still there.

The PC and Valve dick lick on the internet knows no bounds.

Glad they admitted it was a mistake. At least they listened to what the gamers had to say. A better system if they want modders to get some money is to have a donation button within steam so if anyone wanna donate something to the hard work of someone else will be easy to do within steam

Indeed. Following current gen 8 console leader SONY's proven by gamers FOR gamers philosophy.

Valve should say sorry to its PC user base by giving us HL3.

PS4 is the opposite of what happened here with Steam.

The movie-games shoveled down their throats as the main courses, tons of uber hyped flops, pay for inferior online, 30 fps on low/medium, remasters/rehashes of recent games due to lack of backwards compatibility, DLC DLC DLC....

GabeN and PCMR would never allow this tomfoolery.

Your Gaben is a false god, the easier for you to realize that, the better the PC community is.

The reason why we haven't seen Half-Life 3 is that I bet Gabe is looking for modders that are making the game themselves. With Source 2, they're waiting to snatch up those modders and call it their own like they always do. Valve CORPORATION no longer makes games anymore. They're too focus on finding ways to manipulate PC gamers to worship them and "donate" to them in the house of the false gaming god, "GabeN"

Well during his reign prosperity continues to exist. PC is in a new era. Maybe when shit goes down hill you might have a point.

Paid mods will be coming back. I would say that publishers will try and monetize gaming literally any way they can. Why? Because in corporate-land, if you don't you are 'leaving money on the table'.

PC gaming never needed steam for prosperity, you're living in a lie.

Naw man, this is why we haven't seen Half Life 3 yet.

Well PS4 is current gen 8 console leader.

And Obama is jesus.

LOL, it's funny because it's true! Heck, that's why I mentioned that they're waiting for a mod developer make Half-Life 3 as they don't want to make the game themselves. Titles like Portal, Counter-Strike, Left 4 Dead, Day of Defeat, Team Fortress and DOTA are mod games that are slapped with a Valve Corp. Logo on with the fat bastard making money off on them.

@FireEmblem_Man: You should check out their channel, they have all kinds of videos like that. It is called Gaming Wildlife.

thinking jank isnt a complete fake is your mistake

You mean Sniper4321? :P

That is the biggest load of horse shit I have ever heard.. Mods just like Online play have big clauses pointing out that your experiences may change and it is not covered under the ESRB rating.. Mods are no different in this regard... If that were the case than every heavily modded game out there would be rated AO because there are tons of graphic nudity mods out there..

What a clusterfuck

Eh I would be willing to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt as well .. They not only continue to promote their Starcraft 2 modding (the MOBA genre afterall was created from WC3 map editing) but they have now made it free for everyone in which you can play every custom map even if you don't own Starcraft 2. These developers seem not to comprehend that these mods already give them profits by making the game more desirable to buy.. Many pc gamers bought Skyrim specifically because they knew of the huge mod community behind it..

That was a faster backpedal than Bioware and their ME3 ending DLC.

It was bound to happen.

@sSubZerOo:

Nicely said. Even GS runs the Best Skyrim Mod segment and that should tell you something about the novelty and popularity of modded Skyrim. The game has legs on PC and although it sells at $5-$10 now, it's still one of the more popular titles on Steam. Pissing off potentially millions of Skyrim gamers seemed like a bad idea in the end.

Valve needs a cut of the profits for their distribution service.

For what? They make a ton of moneys by their blind followers. It's not like they'll fund for Half-Life 3, oh wait! They don't make games anymore..... How sad.....

Valve provided the digital distribution platform that MS failed to provide for the PC. Valve doesn't get money from users for already bought games during download restoration installs.

You think Softlayer servers are free?

PS; I have experience with setting-up back-end servers that needs to scale.

Okay, I don't care if you know how you can setup back-end servers....... Also, MS is looking more promising with the Windows Store in Windows 10! So I wouldn't count them out.

I don't believe they lost millions because of mods at all. Elder scrolls is a glitchy terrible game without mods. Tons of people that otherwise wouldn't bought oblivion, and skyrim to mod it.

Games that are based on Source engine are not much different to Unreal Engine games.

From normal user's POV, Windows 10 is still MIA (missing in action). Windows 10's Windows store is not much different to Windows 8.1's Windows store.

I'm currently running Windows 10 Technical Preview 10061 on an old laptop, so I don't know why you're saying that it's MIA when it's due around this summer.... The Xbox App works great and I like the interface better than Steams old ancient Desktop interface. I refuse to go Big Picture Mode.

@FireEmblem_Man:

You just answered my point i.e. it's missing in action for normal users. Windows 7 and 8 users far exceeds Windows 10 TP users.

It would take a while for Windows store to displace Valve Steam.