Valve's New Game: DOTA 2!!

I can't wait to get my hands on this, if there is 1 game I buy next year it will be this. Just looking at the art sends chills down my spine, can't wait to see what they do to Sand King, Earth Shaker, Tiny and Clock Work.

[QUOTE="mexicangordo"]

Why? Again, Dota was not that popular before Icefrog started developing it. He made it successful, i don't know why people have a problem with that.

Maroxad

He may have popularized the game. But he didnt create it. DotA didnt create the concept either, it was Aeon of Strife, a map for the original Starcraft. Hence if you visit WC3 map sites, they will frequently refer the genre as Aeon of Strife (AoS). Still he didnt make the game, and because of that, he doesn't deserve rights to the IP, even if it was he who made the DotA the game it is today. In my opinion the IP should belong to the one that created it not the one that popularized it.

The game (DotA 2) will probably be the best in the AoS genre, but it is also the most questionable.

The original creator of Dota had his chance, and left. Now that Icefrog made things big he should claim the rewards? He had his chance with LoL (which flopped) and screwed up, it just further proves that Icefrog had what it took to elevate dota to a more access able and successful level.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="mexicangordo"]

Icefrog was not alone in creating Dota-allstars,

zaibutzu

And knowingly purchasing stolen goods is what Valve did.

*Everything from DotA is coming over

Its community too, I fear.

*AI bots take over disconnected players

LOLWUT - bots? Bots are worthless in a teamwork based game :?
*Not being a dick will improve your standing in the community

According to who?

*Interactive guides and coaching system to help newer players

Like SC2, I suppose. Too bad they're all worthless anyway.

siddhu33

Obviously Ice didnt create it, however what does that have to do with anything? I honestly don't know where you guys are coming from. The IP was passed to him, and Valve officially took it. Dotais a editorial map, and is technically not a real game, its still WC3 there for there are no rights to the IP. Except if Blizzard/Activision step in (which can happen)

The original creator of Dota had his chance, and left. Now that Icefrog made things big he should claim the rewards? He had his chance with LoL (which flopped) and screwed up, it just further proves that Icefrog had what it took to elevate dota to a more access able and successful level.

mexicangordo

Don't think I am viewing this in Black and white. The original creator should have taken steps to avoid this, Icefrog has his justifications for doing this, it may not be very nice, but he certainly has his justifications for doing this. Also, I don't think he ever gave him the IP, just permission to continue updating the map and in my honest opinion at this rate he deserves the map a lot more than the original creator does. However with that said, he does should not have the right making the sequel, sure he can make a spiritual sequel but not an actual sequel using the IP. Making the sequel should be reserved to him.

I mentioned this in my edit, but as it is right now the ones that really have the right to the IP is none other than Blizzard/Activision. I believe their EULA stated that any maps and such that were created using Blizzard's map editor belongs to them. Concepts don't, however the IP pretty much does. Don't get me wrong, I am mostly happy that the game is made the only thing I don't like about it is the fact that it is using the DotA IP.

To summarize: Make the game, just change the IP being used.

P.S: I don't know if LoL flopped, quality wise it was not that good but it certainly is popular. Icefrog not only proved himself to be the superior developer when he made the map popular, but also when LoL showed up to be not nearly as good as the game. Unfortunately, all my friends moved over from DotA to LoL meaning that if I want to play with them I will have to play that :cry: (I can rant about the game all day complaining about bad design choices in LoL)

[QUOTE="mexicangordo"]

Obviously Ice didnt create it, however what does that have to do with anything? I honestly don't know where you guys are coming from. The IP was passed to him, and Valve officially took it. Dotais a editorial map, and is technically not a real game, its still WC3 there for there are no rights to the IP. Except if Blizzard/Activision step in (which can happen)

The original creator of Dota had his chance, and left. Now that Icefrog made things big he should claim the rewards? He had his chance with LoL (which flopped) and screwed up, it just further proves that Icefrog had what it took to elevate dota to a more access able and successful level.

Maroxad

Don't think I am viewing this in Black and white. The original creator should have taken steps to avoid this, Icefrog has his justifications for doing this, it may not be very nice, but he certainly has his justifications for doing this. Also, I don't think he ever gave him the IP, just permission to continue updating the map and in my honest opinion at this rate he deserves the map a lot more than the original creator does. However with that said, he does should not have the right making the sequel, sure he can make a spiritual sequel but not an actual sequel using the IP. Making the sequel should be reserved to him.

I mentioned this in my edit, but as it is right now the ones that really have the right to the IP is none other than Blizzard/Activision. Their EULA stated that any maps and such that were created using Blizzard's map editor belongs to them. Concepts don't, however the IP pretty much does. Don't get me wrong, I am mostly happy that the game is made the only thing I don't like about it is the fact that it is using the DotA IP.

To summarize: Make the game, just change the IP being used.

P.S: I don't know if LoL flopped, quality wise it was not that good but it certainly is popular. Icefrog not only proved himself to be the superior developer when he made the map popular, but also when LoL showed up to be not nearly as good as the game. Unfortunately, all my friends moved over from DotA to LoL meaning that if I want to play with them I will have to play that :cry: (I can rant about the game all day complaining about bad design choices in LoL)

And LoL is not that popular. I think your thinking of Heores of Neworth which is very popular since it is some what like the recent dota except with better graphics and faster gameplay. I still only play dota because it is by far the most balanced out of the 3, but HoN is gaining a lot of popularity. To bad they continue copying the Icefrogs ideas and refuse to fix major problems with the map.

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="mexicangordo"]

Obviously Ice didnt create it, however what does that have to do with anything? I honestly don't know where you guys are coming from. The IP was passed to him, and Valve officially took it. Dotais a editorial map, and is technically not a real game, its still WC3 there for there are no rights to the IP. Except if Blizzard/Activision step in (which can happen)

The original creator of Dota had his chance, and left. Now that Icefrog made things big he should claim the rewards? He had his chance with LoL (which flopped) and screwed up, it just further proves that Icefrog had what it took to elevate dota to a more access able and successful level.

mexicangordo

Don't think I am viewing this in Black and white. The original creator should have taken steps to avoid this, Icefrog has his justifications for doing this, it may not be very nice, but he certainly has his justifications for doing this. Also, I don't think he ever gave him the IP, just permission to continue updating the map and in my honest opinion at this rate he deserves the map a lot more than the original creator does. However with that said, he does should not have the right making the sequel, sure he can make a spiritual sequel but not an actual sequel using the IP. Making the sequel should be reserved to him.

I mentioned this in my edit, but as it is right now the ones that really have the right to the IP is none other than Blizzard/Activision. Their EULA stated that any maps and such that were created using Blizzard's map editor belongs to them. Concepts don't, however the IP pretty much does. Don't get me wrong, I am mostly happy that the game is made the only thing I don't like about it is the fact that it is using the DotA IP.

To summarize: Make the game, just change the IP being used.

P.S: I don't know if LoL flopped, quality wise it was not that good but it certainly is popular. Icefrog not only proved himself to be the superior developer when he made the map popular, but also when LoL showed up to be not nearly as good as the game. Unfortunately, all my friends moved over from DotA to LoL meaning that if I want to play with them I will have to play that :cry: (I can rant about the game all day complaining about bad design choices in LoL)

And LoL is not that popular. I think your thinking of Heores of Neworth which is very popular since it is some what like the recent dota except with better graphics and faster gameplay. I still only play dota because it is by far the most balanced out of the 3, but HoN is gaining a lot of popularity. To bad they continue copying the Icefrogs ideas and refuse to fix major problems with the map.

crap community ahoy!

[QUOTE="mexicangordo"]

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

Don't think I am viewing this in Black and white. The original creator should have taken steps to avoid this, Icefrog has his justifications for doing this, it may not be very nice, but he certainly has his justifications for doing this. Also, I don't think he ever gave him the IP, just permission to continue updating the map and in my honest opinion at this rate he deserves the map a lot more than the original creator does. However with that said, he does should not have the right making the sequel, sure he can make a spiritual sequel but not an actual sequel using the IP. Making the sequel should be reserved to him.

I mentioned this in my edit, but as it is right now the ones that really have the right to the IP is none other than Blizzard/Activision. Their EULA stated that any maps and such that were created using Blizzard's map editor belongs to them. Concepts don't, however the IP pretty much does. Don't get me wrong, I am mostly happy that the game is made the only thing I don't like about it is the fact that it is using the DotA IP.

To summarize: Make the game, just change the IP being used.

P.S: I don't know if LoL flopped, quality wise it was not that good but it certainly is popular. Icefrog not only proved himself to be the superior developer when he made the map popular, but also when LoL showed up to be not nearly as good as the game. Unfortunately, all my friends moved over from DotA to LoL meaning that if I want to play with them I will have to play that :cry: (I can rant about the game all day complaining about bad design choices in LoL)

hexashadow13

And LoL is not that popular. I think your thinking of Heores of Neworth which is very popular since it is some what like the recent dota except with better graphics and faster gameplay. I still only play dota because it is by far the most balanced out of the 3, but HoN is gaining a lot of popularity. To bad they continue copying the Icefrogs ideas and refuse to fix major problems with the map.

People are bashing icefrog? Any fan should be praising him for making(and keeping) the game popular and successful and joining with Valve will do nothing but add to this.ice144

cool

I totally agree with that. I think using Dota as the offical name is going to lead into a huge legal issue. Unless if its really called Dota 2 and not Defence of the Ancients then I can see them having rights to that since Dota is only an abbreviation. But I'm really hoping Blizzard or Activision dont step in to stop this.

And LoL is not that popular. I think your thinking of Heores of Neworth which is very popular since it is some what like the recent dota except with better graphics and faster gameplay. I still only play dota because it is by far the most balanced out of the 3, but HoN is gaining a lot of popularity. To bad they continue copying the Icefrogs ideas and refuse to fix major problems with the map.

mexicangordo

I think we agree with more than we think we do. Personally, my only real concern are legal issues. If he wanted to trademark the IP he should have done it ages ago, but still a bit of shame on Icefrog. Either way, I am mostly gray in this subject with some slight as in minor, resentment against Icefrog.

I didn't know HoN was more popular than LoL. Probably got a bit confused with all my friends switching to LoL, which I am not a big fan of. Stay in DotA people that way you can play with all heroes without having to buy them first. The only redeeming thing about LoL is this guy

Emo tanks ftw.

Yeah Im sorry but all this drama is silly. If the previous "owners" of DotA chose not to do anything more with the idea it is their choice and their loss. Just as it was incredible stupid for no big developer to pick this idea up for so long. I have absolutely no idea what Blizzard were thinking. I am happy that Valve is going to release DotA2 and I am happy that the man that has made DotA what it is today is behind it. Why arent people complainging that HoN is pay to play when the DotA idea is not wholly owned by the developers? To me right now there is only LoL for my DotA needs becouse the communities of Allstars and HoN could be in the guisness book for being the most hostile communities in the history of gaming.

Thanks for posting those concept pictures siddhu :), the links weren't loading for me.

I've never heard of DOTA until now, but this seems like it could be good. Valve is good at using others' ideas and work, and capitalizing on them...

Yeah Im sorry but all this drama is silly. If the previous "owners" of DotA chose not to do anything more with the idea it is their choice and their loss. Just as it was incredible stupid for no big developer to pick this idea up for so long. I have absolutely no idea what Blizzard were thinking. I am happy that Valve is going to release DotA2 and I am happy that the man that has made DotA what it is today is behind it. Why arent people complainging that HoN is pay to play when the DotA idea is not wholly owned by the developers? To me right now there is only LoL for my DotA needs becouse the communities of Allstars and HoN could be in the guisness book for being the most hostile communities in the history of gaming.

rzepak

Why do Dota/Hon communities get so much hate?? Is it because noobs are not tolerated? If you're a noob playing a team game, it only makes sense for your teammates to call you out. Anyways these games aren't even that hard to master.

Wow... I just lost so much respect for Valve it's not even funny.

Wow... I just lost so much respect for Valve it's not even funny.

DarkLink77

4 words, Valve...

Half-Life 2 Episode 3

LoL has a larger base then HoN. That sort of comes with being free.hexashadow13

[QUOTE="rzepak"]

Yeah Im sorry but all this drama is silly. If the previous "owners" of DotA chose not to do anything more with the idea it is their choice and their loss. Just as it was incredible stupid for no big developer to pick this idea up for so long. I have absolutely no idea what Blizzard were thinking. I am happy that Valve is going to release DotA2 and I am happy that the man that has made DotA what it is today is behind it. Why arent people complainging that HoN is pay to play when the DotA idea is not wholly owned by the developers? To me right now there is only LoL for my DotA needs becouse the communities of Allstars and HoN could be in the guisness book for being the most hostile communities in the history of gaming.

bonzibuddyxxx

Why do Dota/Hon communities get so much hate?? Is it because noobs are not tolerated? If you're a noob playing a team game, it only makes sense for your teammates to call you out. Anyways these games aren't even that hard to master.

"but I'm having doubts because of Valve..." You mean the company that released Alien Swarm with dev tools for free, and recently began testing micro transaction in TF2? There is a huge chance that DotA2 could be free.

To answer your question why the communities get so much hate its not becouse people call out the noobs. Its becouse the people abuse noobs for whole games and half the time screw up becouse of their spit spewing hate rants. Its also becouse the communities are elitist, its as simple as that. There is only .... (insert name of DotA game) and nothing else. Everyone and everything else is garbage. I always like to point out that if LoL a free game has a better community than HoN, then there is something seriously wrong with HoNs community.

[QUOTE="hexashadow13"]LoL has a larger base then HoN. That sort of comes with being free.nethernova

Wow... I just lost so much respect for Valve it's not even funny.

DarkLink77

[QUOTE="hexashadow13"]LoL has a larger base then HoN. That sort of comes with being free.nethernova

Dont think we have any official numbers for LoL vs HoN. Registerd players doesnt really mean anything. I guess you could look at Xfire/Raptr numbers, where LoL has a few times more players/play time but only a small percent of players use these programs. Then again DotA games are pretty niche and hour tracking programs are mostly used by the more niche crowd for all sorts of online games.

That´s....erm....I don´t even know how I feel about this...

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Wow... I just lost so much respect for Valve it's not even funny.

SAGE_OF_FIRE

That´s....erm....I don´t even know how I feel about this...

Arach666

Only good can come of this=) Like maybe an Orange box 2 with HL3, CS2 and DotA2...a man can dream.

[QUOTE="SAGE_OF_FIRE"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Wow... I just lost so much respect for Valve it's not even funny.

DarkLink77

And once more you do realise that both HoN and LoL are making a ton of money on the DotA gametype yes? and that Demigod has already made dota into a full retail game yes?

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="SAGE_OF_FIRE"] http://icefrogtruth.blogspot.com/ Not really Valve's fault. rzepak

And once more you do realise that both HoN and LoL are making a ton of money on the DotA gametype yes?

[QUOTE="Arach666"]

That´s....erm....I don´t even know how I feel about this...

rzepak

Only good can come of this=) Like maybe an Orange box 2 with HL3, CS2 and DotA2...a man can dream.

[QUOTE="rzepak"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Yeah, it is. If they had any kind of respect for anyone else's work or any kind of decency, they would have fired the guy when they discovered this and then scraped the game. So yes, it IS their fault. Coming from one of the most prolific developers in the industry, this is absolutely pathetic.DarkLink77

And once more you do realise that both HoN and LoL are making a ton of money on the DotA gametype yes?

[QUOTE="rzepak"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Yeah, it is. If they had any kind of respect for anyone else's work or any kind of decency, they would have fired the guy when they discovered this and then scraped the game. So yes, it IS their fault. Coming from one of the most prolific developers in the industry, this is absolutely pathetic.DarkLink77

And once more you do realise that both HoN and LoL are making a ton of money on the DotA gametype yes?

Its no more wrong than the other things I have listed. Valve with Icefrog has more moral right to make a DotA game than the S2 crew for example, who as far as I remember had very little or nothing to do with DotA. They got the blessing to make HoN from Icefrog and thats it. Also its not like Riot games has gone and attacked Valve for hiring Icefrog and begining work on a dota game. They said that they are excited to see what a big developer will do with the game...

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="rzepak"]

And once more you do realise that both HoN and LoL are making a ton of money on the DotA gametype yes?

SAGE_OF_FIRE

[QUOTE="SAGE_OF_FIRE"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] It doesn't change the fact that it's morally wrong, but whatever, they can do whatever they want.

DarkLink77

What do you understand by Valve? Valve has been a number of teams for years...its not new. They are known for hiring modders and talented people from the community.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="SAGE_OF_FIRE"] The only complaint anybody has about Valve making a dota game is using the dota name. rzepak

What do you understand by Valve? Valve has been a number of teams for years...its not new. They are known for hiring modders and talented people from the community.

Thanks for posting those concept pictures siddhu :), the links weren't loading for me.

I've never heard of DOTA until now, but this seems like it could be good. Valve is good at using others' ideas and work, and capitalizing on them...

Episode_Eve

[QUOTE="rzepak"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] I just wish Valve would developer their own crap every once in a while. The only thing they have EVER done by themselves is Half-Life.DarkLink77

What do you understand by Valve? Valve has been a number of teams for years...its not new. They are known for hiring modders and talented people from the community.

So good buisness is bad now? Do you think those modders who were hired were all doom and gloom becouse of it? or maybe they were happy they had actually made it into the game biz and are still there today making highly acclaimed games for a well respected parent company.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="rzepak"]

What do you understand by Valve? Valve has been a number of teams for years...its not new. They are known for hiring modders and talented people from the community.

rzepak

So good buisness is bad now? Do you think those modders who were hired were all doom and gloom becouse of it? or maybe they were happy they had actually made it into the game biz and are still there today making highly acclaimed games for a well respected parent company.

[QUOTE="rzepak"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] And every game besides Half-Life has been one that they either: 1. Bought the modders who made the mod and slapped the Valve logo on it. 2. Bought the studio making the game, and slapped the Valve name on it.DarkLink77

So good buisness is bad now? Do you think those modders who were hired were all doom and gloom becouse of it? or maybe they were happy they had actually made it into the game biz and are still there today making highly acclaimed games for a well respected parent company.

I just dont see what you exprct. The days of one man being behind all ideas in a company like Moleneux in the olden days are gone. Im happy that Valve operates the way it does. If it didnt Portal would not have happend. Sure we would still have Nerbacular Drop but I am sorry its not Portal and it would have never made it big.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="rzepak"]

So good buisness is bad now? Do you think those modders who were hired were all doom and gloom becouse of it? or maybe they were happy they had actually made it into the game biz and are still there today making highly acclaimed games for a well respected parent company.

rzepak

I just dont see what you exprct. The days of one man being behind all ideas in a company like Moleneux in the olden days are gone. Im happy that Valve operates the way it does. If it didnt Portal would not have happend. Sure we would still have Nerbacular Drop but I am sorry its not Portal and it would have never made it big.